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attackmaste
beginner


Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol
#21854025 - 06/25/15 07:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dont know about other countries, but where I live alchohol like ethanol or iso isnt avaivable to someone without medical background. I'm trying to make a spore syringe and I need somehow to sterilize my stuff. Is there any alternatives? Could i get away with bleach or peroxide? Tried to search for this info, but it seems no one has such problem.
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nwalker248
Solo Trekker



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 396
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: attackmaste]
#21854096 - 06/25/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
attackmaste said: Dont know about other countries, but where I live alchohol like ethanol or iso isnt avaivable to someone without medical background. I'm trying to make a spore syringe and I need somehow to sterilize my stuff. Is there any alternatives? Could i get away with bleach or peroxide? Tried to search for this info, but it seems no one has such problem.
Is ordering out of the question? It's not illegal anywhere I don't believe, and worst case you can buy Alcohol swabs (with Iso 70%) for about £1-2 from ebay.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: nwalker248]
#21854120 - 06/25/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I haven't used alcohol in a long ass time. Soap and water for me. Besides alcohol sanitizes, not sterilizes. You should see a surface rubbed with alcohol under the microscope. Looks like it just moved the contamination spores around.
Syringes/jars of sterile water or whatever gets thrown into the pc and worked with in a sab. Heat will sterilize so if you have a pc and a torch, that's all you need.
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Chk
Reverser


Registered: 09/06/13
Posts: 405
Loc: France
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: attackmaste]
#21854256 - 06/25/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't use alcool here, chlorhexidine only, it's not expensive, it's antibacterial & antifungal ,and got a remanent effect.
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Edited by Chk (06/25/15 09:12 AM)
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: attackmaste]
#21854287 - 06/25/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
attackmaste said: I'm trying to make a spore syringe and I need somehow to sterilize my stuff.
You don't need alcohol anywhere in the process. Wrap empty syringe in foil and put distilled water in a jar, PC both. Unwrap in SAB\flowhood and get shit done.
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attackmaste
beginner



Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Juiceh]
#21854427 - 06/25/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for the advice. Could I atleast rub the glove box and gloves with bleach solution to slightly decrease contamination percentage?
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: attackmaste]
#21854478 - 06/25/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes.
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nwalker248
Solo Trekker



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 396
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Juiceh]
#21854535 - 06/25/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know if this is correct, but I've heard that it's when the iso. evaporates it pulls bacteria with it? So apparently it a lot more effective than any others to sanitize, but isn't effective until evaporated.
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Edited by nwalker248 (06/25/15 10:41 AM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: nwalker248]
#21854568 - 06/25/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not sure if that's true. I've never heard anyone say it.
Alcohol is actually better with water. Cells and spores absorb water. If it was pure iso, it wouldn't get absorbed and wouldn't kill anything. This is why we use 70% iso. That way the water kind of disguises the alcohol as water and thus the cells absorb it. Once past the cell wall, that's when the alcohol will kill it from the inside out.
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attackmaste
beginner



Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Mad Season]
#21854704 - 06/25/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well this was descused quite a lot, but couldn't find any information what alternative could do something similar.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: attackmaste]
#21854719 - 06/25/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I said soap and water is what I use. I don't use any disinfectant EVER. I'm telling you your sterile techniques are far, FAR more important. A pressure cooker and a torch is all you need for sterilizing equipment. You can use bleach, lysol, alcohol, or antifungal cream if you want. It isn't going to determine the success. It's your procedure. Always work in a still air box and NEVER let your hand or arm go over open media. Doing this I've had great success.
Basically what juiceh said.
Edited by Mad Season (06/25/15 11:25 AM)
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Mad Season] 1
#21854728 - 06/25/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Alcohol is actually better with water. Cells and spores absorb water. If it was pure iso, it wouldn't get absorbed and wouldn't kill anything. This is why we use 70% iso. That way the water kind of disguises the alcohol as water and thus the cells absorb it. Once past the cell wall, that's when the alcohol will kill it from the inside out.
No. 70% is recommended because the water content lengthens the evaporation time and gives the alcohol more time to penetrate the cell walls and be effective. The water does also help it to absorb better by helping open up the cell walls, but the length of time the alcohol is allowed to work is the more important factor.
Pure iso wouldn't kill anything? I pretty much only use 99.9% alcohol, because I have tons of it, literally. I haven't had any issues with using strictly 99.9%. I used to dilute it with distilled water, but I started skipping the extra step and went to just pure alcohol and have had no problems. I lay on liberal coatings on surfaces and let it sit for a minute before wiping down. Jars get wiped down no differently than when I was diluting. I do not use the alcohol on utensils and tools, those get flamed. My contam rate is below 1%. Probably doesn't hurt that I have great sterile technique and work in front of a flowhood. 
You do have to be more careful with the pure stuff. I gave some to a friend and the dumb shit nearly burned his house down. He used to flame sterilize needles for pftek with a pool of lit alcohol on the bottom divot of an upside down shotglass. He was always sloppy pouring the alcohol and would get off lighting the pools of 70% shit on his counter top. He learned the hard way not to do that with the 99.9% shit! Ha Ha! The gene pool needs more chlorine.
To clean a SAB all you really need is soapy water.
Edited by Juiceh (06/25/15 11:58 AM)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Juiceh]
#21854799 - 06/25/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting. you're the first person who's said that. I can tell you've done lots of research and have experience on the subject. It probably doesn't help you have a good sterile technique though lol because like I said, it's far more important than the sanitizer. I have just read it more than once that 99% is a lot less effective than 70% for the reasons I gave.
Haha wow I can't believe that happened. Scary stuff. Reminds me of the people who had flames going in their glove box with alcohol :P
I have well over 95% success, but not at 99% yet without any sanitizer, just soap and water. I don't have any sleeves or coveralls. Just bare arms with latex gloves, and I do all my work in my kitchen/living room in my still air box. Just gotta be quick, but don't move air around too much, and never let my hand go over open media. I promised a certain TC who does the same thing not to say he does it, but he's the one who helped me figure it out and get my sterile techniques down when I had contamination issues. I was also using sleeves and alcohol back when I had the issues. Just didn't realize how important it is to have delicate but firm techniques.
Edited by Mad Season (06/25/15 11:48 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Juiceh]
#21854840 - 06/25/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Juiceh said:
Quote:
Mad Season said: Alcohol is actually better with water. Cells and spores absorb water. If it was pure iso, it wouldn't get absorbed and wouldn't kill anything. This is why we use 70% iso. That way the water kind of disguises the alcohol as water and thus the cells absorb it. Once past the cell wall, that's when the alcohol will kill it from the inside out.
No. 70% is recommended because the water content lengthens the evaporation time and gives the alcohol more time to penetrate the cell walls and be effective. The water does also help it to absorb better too, but the length of time the alcohol is allowed to work is the more important factor.
Pure iso wouldn't kill anything? I pretty much only use 99.9% alcohol, because I have tons of it, literally. I haven't had any issues with using strictly 99.9%. I used to dilute it with distilled water, but I started skipping the extra step and went to just pure alcohol and have had no problems. I lay on liberal coatings on surfaces and let it sit for a minute before wiping down. Jars get wiped down no differently than when I was diluting. I do not use the alcohol on utensils and tools, those get flamed. My contam rate is below 1%. Probably doesn't hurt that I have great sterile technique and work in front of a flowhood. 
You do have to be more careful with the pure stuff. I gave some to a friend and the dumb shit nearly burned his house down. He used to flame sterilize needles for pftek with a pool of lit alcohol on the bottom divot of an upside down shotglass. He was always sloppy pouring the alcohol and would get off lighting the pools of 70% shit on his counter top. He learned the hard way not to do that with the 99.9% shit! Ha Ha! The gene pool needs more chlorine.
To clean a SAB all you really need is soapy water.
Yes only soapy water and he was right. 70 works better for the reasons he said. 99 isn't nearly as effective because it can't penetrate cells as well. Alcohol denatures proteins.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: bodhisatta]
#21854848 - 06/25/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can always make your own ethanol to use as a disinfectant. Sugar and water are cheap, you can catch wild yeast from the air if you have to, or buy baker's yeast. A still that's good enough to produce something to clean stuff with is cheap & easy. Like a pot & a couple bowls and a stand.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21855054 - 06/25/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The best wine yeast won't get you much past 15% alcohol and that's with all the essential nutrients and anaerobic fermentation
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attackmaste
beginner



Registered: 06/22/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Mad Season]
#21855357 - 06/25/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Would you be kind enough to share your technique for transfering spore print to syringe?
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: attackmaste]
#21855443 - 06/25/15 02:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
attackmaste said: Would you be kind enough to share your technique for transfering spore print to syringe?
If you have new in package sterile syringes and needles use them for this. Otherwise, with used empty syringes and needles, wrap them in foil and pressure cook them, along with a 1/4 pint jar with distilled water in it and a self healing injection port in the lid. Cook them for about 30 minutes. Once cooled, in your SAB or flowhood open the jar of water and scrape some spores off of the print with a flame sterilized inoculation loop into the jar of water. Close up the jar after you have got enough spores into the water for your liking. Shake up the jar to distribute the spores. Then use the self healing port to extract the solution. You could put a filter patch on the jar lid to make sucking up the solution easier, otherwise you are creating a vacuum in the jar that will make each next syringe tougher to pull, but not impossible.
Super simple. There are alot of really shitty spore syringe videos on youtube that show incredibly poor sterile technique that is pretty much guaranteed to fail. Before ever attempting to follow a youtube spore syringe video ask about the video on here.
Edited by Juiceh (06/25/15 03:40 PM)
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Guardian187
Neophyte


Registered: 11/29/14
Posts: 716
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: bodhisatta]
#21855753 - 06/25/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: The best wine yeast won't get you much past 15% alcohol and that's with all the essential nutrients and anaerobic fermentation
Pro
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Need advice with sterilizing without alcohol [Re: Guardian187]
#21855783 - 06/25/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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35 brix solution and you need to make a huge yeast starter, there's no spontaneous fermentation going to happen without huge bacterial contamination and all the alcohol will turn to vinegar and other acids eventually
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