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Offlinesidreh
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Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale?
    #21853696 - 06/25/15 03:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

hello, first time poster here
I've been thinking of going into commercial mushroom farming, growing oysters, king oyster and shiitake. My main sources of substrate are spent coffee grounds, mixed sawdust consisting of mostly pine and fir. There is also a brewery nearby. There is some barley grown in the area but not much. So I know none of this (besides the straw) is ideal but would it work on a commercial scale? I've read that pine and fir sawdust can be used after being fermented for 6 months. That's a looooong prep time. I know there is one producer that kiln dries his sawdust and shavings to sterilize them, it is then sold as a bedding material. Would the heating treatment have reduced the resin content sufficiently?

There is one huge mushroom grower in my country that only grows button and chestnut mushrooms. I have managed to find one gourmet mushroom grower, but he only grows brown oysters on straw from the barley farmer. So there is a huge market potential, but I am hesitant to dive in with the materials available to me.


What do you guys think?


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OfflineHumbled
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: sidreh]
    #21853844 - 06/25/15 05:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Spent coffee grounds, straw, and used grains would work just fine for you. They arent really less than ideal either..... they're perfectly suitable but at least for the Shiitake you may want to source some sort of wood that isnt pine or spruce or any other high resin woods.

They can work but I wouldnt mess with it on a large scale personally.


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OfflineHumbled
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: Humbled]
    #21853850 - 06/25/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

One more thought about obtaining sawdust. Find a local custom cabinet-maker or the like and ask if you can take their sawdust. The guy I get mine from has a business that just dumps it right into a dumpster and pays to have it hauled off.

I'm sure anyone that does woodworking on a large scale would be happy to supply you bro. If you can find more than one business, you would have more suitable sawdust than you could handle I'm sure.:grin::thumbup:


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: Humbled]
    #21853851 - 06/25/15 05:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

i would look into straw or importing some materials if necessary.  you should be starting small anyway, just to see if it works.  so give it a shot with what you've got.


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Offlinesidreh
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: Humbled]
    #21853859 - 06/25/15 06:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

well I was thinking that they are all less than ideal materials for shiitake. The coffee and grain are all very nutrient rich, and the competition for the straw is high. I will look into cabinet makers, that's a good idea, thanks.


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Offlinesidreh
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: drake89]
    #21853865 - 06/25/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Importing from overseas is not viable from a long term perspective business-wise. When I'm talking about local materials I'm talking about materials I can find in my country (which is very small). I will of course start small, I've been experimenting a bit at home, but before I put in the time and effort of making a business plan I want to make sure I have a reliable source of growing medium.

Perhaps this is the reason only one person is growing oysters on a commercial scale in my country...


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: sidreh]
    #21853886 - 06/25/15 06:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sidreh said:
Importing from overseas is not viable from a long term perspective business-wise. When I'm talking about local materials I'm talking about materials I can find in my country (which is very small). I will of course start small, I've been experimenting a bit at home, but before I put in the time and effort of making a business plan I want to make sure I have a reliable source of growing medium.

Perhaps this is the reason only one person is growing oysters on a commercial scale in my country...



are you on an island or something?


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Offlinefrog48
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: drake89]
    #21854592 - 06/25/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:grin:I'm getting curious too!


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: frog48]
    #21854873 - 06/25/15 12:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I grow shiitake on furniture sawdust from a cabinet maker and spent beer grains. you need a way to dry the beer grains befor eyou store them. they get nasty very quickly. i have not had good luck with coffee grounds and shiitake. they always produce mutants, even at rediculously low supplementation rates. you can use pine as a portion of your substrate. it doesn't seem to get fully broken down but it doesn't effect the yeild in my experience. i have used up to 1/2 pine and 1/2 hardwood and had it work fine. but i age the sawdust and wood chips for a long time. not fermentation but they get rained on and sit in the sun. i think it leaches out the tannins and terpines. start on a hobby scale first, though. there's a lot to learn, especially if you're intent on using local resources. do small batches and compare recipes with only one variable changed at a time.


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Offlinesidreh
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: drake89]
    #21855188 - 06/25/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

frog48 said:
:grin:I'm getting curious too!



Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

sidreh said:
Importing from overseas is not viable from a long term perspective business-wise. When I'm talking about local materials I'm talking about materials I can find in my country (which is very small). I will of course start small, I've been experimenting a bit at home, but before I put in the time and effort of making a business plan I want to make sure I have a reliable source of growing medium.

Perhaps this is the reason only one person is growing oysters on a commercial scale in my country...



are you on an island or something?




yes :smile:

I've read mixed reports on spent coffee grounds, perhaps the trick is to find the right strain.

The thing is I'm unemployed and would like to create my own work. I'm a biologist and have worked in labs producing vaccines and growth mediums so I'm trained in sterile lab work. Producing food in an urban environment from waste (agricultural or urban) is something that appeals to me. I think it's important that we start closing production cycles so that the waste from one production is used as a material in other productions. So I'm all for trying to get creative with the materials available to me, but it still has to be economical y'know.


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: sidreh]
    #21856002 - 06/25/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

oysters like coffee grounds. ime, shiitakes do not


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Offlinesidreh
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21856228 - 06/25/15 05:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Any comments on the kiln dried softwood sawdust? From what I've read the trick to using softwood is to let it age to reduce the resin content. I'm sort of hoping that kiln drying speeds up that process. I guess I just have to contact these woodland farmers and ask them how old their sawdust is...


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Offlineknomadic_niki
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: sidreh]
    #21856263 - 06/25/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

are you inquiring about pine or softwood? not all softwoods have resin. some hardwoods also have resin. the softness or hardness of wood is simply its density. the problem with soft woods, like elm and fir, is that they don't contain the right ratio of lignin and cellulose, so the mushrooms have a hard time with them. at least, that's the way i understand it. some mushrooms, like oysters, are less picky. you should try to find strains and species already adapted to the type of wood you plan on using. kiln dried wood is the best because you don't ahve to sterilize it.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: sidreh]
    #21856409 - 06/25/15 06:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

sidreh said:
Any comments on the kiln dried softwood sawdust? From what I've read the trick to using softwood is to let it age to reduce the resin content. I'm sort of hoping that kiln drying speeds up that process. I guess I just have to contact these woodland farmers and ask them how old their sawdust is...



the only way is to try and see!  my substrate for shiitake is wood pellets that are 80% oak and 20% pine.  that is heat treated and I think helps so the pine does not matter.  good luck!


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Offlinesidreh
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Re: Using less than ideal materials on commercial scale? [Re: knomadic_niki]
    #21858581 - 06/26/15 04:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The sawdust is a mixture of pine, fir and larch. I've contacted the farmer and he is also growing aspen trees and birch, but not at the same scale as the conifer trees. I'm waiting for a reply if he would be able to supply me with sawdust and shavings from those. *fingerscrossed*


I read here that Aloha is selling a pheonix oyster strain that grows on conifer substrate, that's worth giving a try. I also read that you could grow shiitake on spent substrate from oysters. I wonder if first grow the pheonix oysters on the sawdust if the shiitake would then like it. Might be an interesting experiment...


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