Home | Community | Message Board


Myco Supply
Please support our sponsors.

Feedback and Administration >> Shroomery News Service

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
Female

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
France is fuckin dumb
    #2185262 - 12/17/03 02:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=6&u=/ap/20031217/ap_on_re_eu/france_head_scarves

I used to like france for the whole resisting the war, but this is some backwards shit right here. I didn't think that level of racism was anywher near that bad in most european countrys


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,123
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2187183 - 12/18/03 06:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Chirac Orders Law Banning Head Scarves
Wed Dec 17, 6:34 PM ET Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!
By ELAINE GANLEY, Associated Press Writer

PARIS - Despite protests from Muslim leaders, France must outlaw Islamic head coverings, Jewish skullcaps and other obvious religious signs in schools and regulate them in the workplace, President Jacques Chirac announced Wednesday.

Such action (news - web sites), the French president said in a televised national address, is needed to reaffirm France's secular foundations. "It is not negotiable," he asserted.

Islamic head scarves, Jewish yarmulkes or outsized Christian crosses "have no place" in public schools, Chirac said, and called on parliament, where his conservative government has a majority, to pass a law banning them ahead of the school year that starts in September 2004.

While widely expected, Chirac's dramatic proposal capped months of debate about mainly Roman Catholic France's struggle to hold together the multiracial, multicultural but often poorly integrated society it has become after waves of immigration from North Africa and elsewhere.

Chirac's proposals, part of a quickening government effort to thwart the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, also appeared aimed at undercutting support for the extreme right National Front, led by Jean-Marie Le Pen.

Le Pen, who placed second behind Chirac in presidential elections last year, has capitalized on fears of immigration and concerns that France is abandoning its traditions as it seeks to respond to immigrant communities.

Chirac paid homage to the immigrants who helped "forge our country, make it stronger and more prosperous."

But he also said he will not tolerate any religious challenge to France's core values ? encapsulated in the phrase carved above the front doors of schools and town halls across the country: "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity."

Chirac said secularism, France's cherished separation of religion and state, remains a cornerstone of French values, providing neutral ground for different religions to coexist in harmony.

He rejected the Anglo-Saxon model of integration ? admired by some French Muslims ? where ethnic communities guard their customs and separateness.

"I refuse to let France take that path. It would sacrifice its heritage. It would compromise its future. It would lose its soul," Chirac said.

Less expected than his proposed law governing schools ? and possibly more contentious because of its potential scope ? was Chirac's proposal for the workplace.

Business leaders should be allowed to "regulate the wearing of religious signs" for safety reasons and for dealing with clients, Chirac said.

He did not specify that head scarves would be banned in the work place, but said he was ready "if necessary" to send measures to parliament to give bosses the ability to set rules on religious symbols.

Chirac said a law also is needed to stop patients from refusing treatment by doctors of the opposite sex (news - web sites). Doctors say there have been cases of Muslim women or their husbands rebuffing male doctors.

The French Council of the Muslim Faith, formed this year at the government's urging to improve ties between Muslim leaders and the state (news - web sites), had expressed deep reservations about banning head scarves, saying it would be viewed as a discriminatory move against France's estimated 5 million Muslims, the largest Muslim population in Western Europe.

But the Muslim council's president, Dalil Boubakeur, called for calm in response to Chirac's proposals.

"We have already said that the law of our nation is our law," he said. "It is up to society to fix the norms and values that it wants respected."

France's chief rabbi, Joseph Sitruk, welcomed the speech, saying Chirac was "extremely clear about the place of religious belief in a modern society."

"He reminded the French, notably the young, of all the elements they need to hear," Sitruk said, adding that he was "overall very satisfied" with Chirac's address.

But the Rev. Stanislas Lalanne, a spokesman for the Catholic Church, said "the fundamental questions of integration will not simply resolve themselves through a law on religious signs." "A law wasn't necessary," said Jamila Chaibi, founder of Rights for Muslim Women of France. She said Muslim women are insulted for wearing head scarves and that Chirac did not do enough to address discrimination.

Chirac said an independent authority will be established next year to combat "all forms of discrimination." He also acknowledged the social, economic and racial inequalities causing tensions among immigrants, many mired in downtrodden, crime-corroded suburbs.

Young French from immigrant families are refused work "because of the sound of their name," Chirac said. He asked: "How can we ask their inhabitants to recognize themselves in the nation and in its values when they live in inhuman urban ghettos, where the lack of law or the law of the strongest pretends to rein?"

Marine Le Pen, vice president of the National Front and Le Pen's daughter, called Chirac's speech "a sort of apology for immigration."

Muslims watched the address on the satellite TV network Al-Jazeera in a tea shop in Paris' Montmartre district. They expressed dismay and some warned of a backlash.

"My wife's family is going to refuse to take off their head scarves," said Ahmed Wahdan, 36, a native of Egypt who has lived in France for 16 years. "Nobody can take their freedom (news - web sites) away from them."

Added Ahmed Dolla, another immigrant from Egypt, said: "People always say that France is the country of freedom, but where's the liberty if you ban the wearing of head scarves?"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,123
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2187192 - 12/18/03 06:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

>I didn't think that level of racism was anywher near that bad in most european countrys

Can you not carry a head scarf in a school in an islamic country, or even on the street?
No, you can?t, you are likely to be put in prison immediately.

I?m all for freedom of individual expression , but then in all countries.

Why should the islamic community have greater rights in a Christian country than the Christan or other beliefs community in an islamic country?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
Female

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Anno]
    #2187254 - 12/18/03 07:43 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i just thought france was supposed to be somewhat more civilized


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,123
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2187268 - 12/18/03 07:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It is.
If that was Iran, you would probably be stoned to death if you were a woman and appeared without a head cover in public institutions.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
Female

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Anno]
    #2188264 - 12/18/03 05:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Stoned to death.... that sounds like more fun than it probably is


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Anno]
    #2188705 - 12/18/03 10:03 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i know i'll go to my grave knowing what an evil, hideous religion islam is/has been and was.
i say burn scarves,in australia we have had muslimah try to ban other people from using public swimming pools,we've had shops ban selling ham in muslim slums and even had turban wearing clowns try to sue an rsl(returned servicemens club)because they weren't permitted in because it is a custom for men to remove hats out of respect for the war dead, but still these scum persist. :thumbdown:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDreamer987
The VerbalHerman Munster
Female

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 5,326
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: ]
    #2189023 - 12/19/03 12:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

you can't judge the whole religion,Its not a bad religion its just the way certain people manipulate it. sure alot of them are some crazy bastards but that is just the extreme element. Think of all the things people have done in the name of the Christian God. Nazis, The Clan, Bush.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
Loc: East Anglia UK
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: ]
    #2190525 - 12/19/03 03:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lamblancer said:
i know i'll go to my grave knowing what an evil, hideous religion islam is/has been and was.
i say burn scarves,in australia we have had muslimah try to ban other people from using public swimming pools,we've had shops ban selling ham in muslim slums and even had turban wearing clowns try to sue an rsl(returned servicemens club)because they weren't permitted in because it is a custom for men to remove hats out of respect for the war dead, but still these scum persist. :thumbdown:




If only everyone was as tolerant as you  :rolleyes:

Turban wearers are sikhs, not muslims. A turban is not a hat it is a religious symbol, like a cross on a necklace for example. Your ignorance and desire to go on a scarf burning crusade against these 'evil and hideous' people is pathetic.
:rolleyes:


--------------------
:sleepingcow:  :penguinmonkey: :blah:

JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMetaShroom
菌类
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 1,462
Loc: East Anglia UK
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2190540 - 12/19/03 03:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It does seem a bit dumb. However the French are very protective of their absolute seperation between religion and state. ALthough they are banning all religious symbols, it does seem to be targetted mainly against muslims in order to asuage the 'concerns' of the very large percent of the population who voted for the far-right in recent elections.


--------------------
:sleepingcow:  :penguinmonkey: :blah:

JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesir tripsalot
Administrator
 Arcade Champion: Skeleton Park

Registered: 07/10/99
Posts: 6,486
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2192284 - 12/20/03 04:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

There is always the flipside. Like the Lady who refused to take off her Burka for her drivers license, which was going to be her main I.D.

And what's with these Muslim guys refusing to shake womens hands? Get the fuck back to your spider hole dipshit. You wanna immigrate into our country? then respect the people already here.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,123
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #2192291 - 12/20/03 04:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, the essence would be:

"You want to immigrate into a country? Then respect the people and ther customs there."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Anno]
    #2193617 - 12/20/03 10:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

France: More civilized than Iran, but not as civilized as America.

They should make that their tourism campaign slogan.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Update -- this just in -- [Re: Dreamer987]
    #2193684 - 12/20/03 11:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Chirac Proposes Compromise: 'Hijab-on-a-Stick'

(2003-12-17) -- In a move described as a concession to religious liberty, French President Jacques Chirac today asked parliament not to forbid the Muslim hijab (head scarf) in public institutions, as long as it is white and mounted to a stick.

"We want to let our Muslim friends know that they are free to practice their religion in France," said Mr. Chirac. "But we must not allow our French secular identity to slip. The hijab-on-a-stick is a rational, secular compromise which will remind Muslims of their religious identity and all French people of their great military history."

Mr. Chirac's aides said they still don't have a so-called "final solution" for dealing with Jewish and Christian symbols, although they hope to find compromises which respect religious heritage while promoting distinctively French values.

"We're thinking of mandating that the yarmulke (skull cap) be worn as a sort of seat cushion to cover the derri?re," said an unnamed presidential aide. "The cross, presents greater difficulties, because it's such an uncompromising symbol. However, we may perhaps allow only the horizontal beam to be worn, so it will be vaguely reminiscent of a cross, yet remind us all of the great Maginot Line behind which the French hid, for a time, in World War II."

http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/001429.html


pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAnnoA
Experimenter
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/18/99
Posts: 24,123
Loc: my room
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2193783 - 12/21/03 07:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

>France: More civilized than Iran, but not as civilized as America.

I better not comment this obvious fallacy.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Anno]
    #2193879 - 12/21/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

America's attitude on this issue is, in fact, more civilized than France's. There are probably other ways that France is more civilized than America, and for that matter, ways that Iran is more civilized than either France OR America.

Civility is sometimes (often) a luxury. France's culture may be under more duress than I am aware. Where I live it's Mexicans and Mexican (+ other general hispanic) culture that is "encroaching" on the local culture.

We have yet to pass any laws against wearing sombreros.

Though I do remember a rule at my elementary school that we couldn't wear hats. I don't think any ethnic or religious issues ever came up over it. It was kind of a silly rule IMO.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepsiloz
Stranger

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 75
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2336893 - 02/15/04 11:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Lamblancer you make me ashamed to be your countryman - you are so ignorant it defies belief.

Can no one see that this whole excercise has nothing to do with protecting French values beyond its Christianity? Its a conservative backlash supported by French bigots

Its a bigoted law outlawing all but the christian cross in a stupid attempt to bring back what is no longer relevant while further disenfranchising its ethnic minorities. French people live all over the world and carved out nice little empires from Djibouti to Tunisia, Vietnam and New Caledonia
Just like the Brits now have to face the consequences of their expansionist ideology that gave them and empire - the French will too
As will the Americans from now on as all affiliated states from Japan, Sth Korea, Vietnam, Taiwan, Latin america, The Phillipines, Now Iraq and all the Others look to the best prospects within the Empire
I believe the only countries who have the moral right to bitch about immigrants are those that kept to themselves and werent expansionist

As for mexicans taking over the US - if any US citizen knows their history they will rememeber that The western half of what is now the US was the property of Spain (accounting for all the spanish names) and that Texas was part of Mexico till the US stole it(Rememebr the Alamo?)
So in reality its no invasion but rather the earlier owners reclaiming lost ground


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: psiloz]
    #2337305 - 02/15/04 02:30 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't see any reason to recognize Spain's claim to that area. If anyone has a claim to be recognized, it would be the native indians.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,838
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 27 minutes, 15 seconds
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: psiloz]
    #2337874 - 02/15/04 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

As for mexicans taking over the US - if any US citizen knows their history they will rememeber that The western half of what is now the US was the property of Spain (accounting for all the spanish names) and that Texas was part of Mexico till the US stole it(Rememebr the Alamo?)
So in reality its no invasion but rather the earlier owners reclaiming lost ground





Yeah, but it was the Indians before that.  Why don't we just give it all back to them and you can give Australia back to the Aborignes.  Then, let's go a the World Courts and have them redraw every countries boundries to the earliest known maps. :laugh:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepsiloz
Stranger

Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 75
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: France is fuckin dumb [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2340295 - 02/16/04 09:22 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think you misjudge the point i was making

My point is that Cultures change and the people in areas change
I realise fully that 'going back' is futile but i also recognise that staying 'as we are' is also futile.
My point about Spain and Mexicos claims were made to counter the common notion by some Americans that they are being Invaded or over run by Foreigners from south of the border when the truth is a whole lot more interesting.

Similarly the French seem to want to stand still in a Post WW2 nationalistic white christian world.
Maybe the French need some eductaion on what happens when their own culture infuses into others - Like in Lebanon, Nth africa or The Pacific. Instead of being so scared they should realise that the fusion of these cultures greatly enhanced all aspects of it.
If they used their existing cultural ties more and systematically rooted out institutionalised bigotry they might find that there are great opportunities and alliances to be made. France could easily reassert itself as a major world political player especially once its version of a CNN 24 hour broadcast goes on the waves in a couple of years. Unlike the US and Britain , France is still respected in the M east because it retained diplomatic ties and supported UN action on iraq instead of Military force (which suprise siprise turned out to be all the bullshit anti-war advocates claimed and more)- if they ruin that like this they will be wasting a major benefit


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Feedback and Administration >> Shroomery News Service

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Poisonous mushrooms leave three seriously ill in France gema 943 0 10/28/06 03:45 PM
by gema
* France bans 'e-mail' from vocabulary motamanM 1,384 3 07/21/03 11:37 AM
by luvdemshrooms
* French Truffle Fields Devastated veggie 1,096 0 02/06/05 12:38 AM
by veggie
* Climate change threatens French truffle veggie 1,017 2 05/16/08 06:02 PM
by perosiste
* Meanwhile: It's c├Ępe time in La Belle France veggie 618 0 09/22/07 01:33 AM
by veggie
* Ayahuasca is legal in France blink 1,046 2 01/15/05 10:36 PM
by Ravus
* French customs seize seize 804lbs heroin veggie 1,372 2 01/19/07 11:56 AM
by elaspeinreason
* French scientists planning to clone "black diamond" truffles veggie 802 1 12/04/08 06:10 PM
by Hits of Sunshine

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, karode13, Alan Rockefeller, naum, Mostly_Harmless
3,981 topic views. 0 members, 7 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.048 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 21 queries.