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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Starting cacti from seed. * 2
    #21850856 - 06/24/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A while ago I decided to start some cacti from seed.  I started them off on black cinder in a petri dish.  It was extremely hard to keep it hydrated and I had to watch it every few days to prevent it from drying out.  So I got a small plastic bin about 11" long, 7" wide and 7" tall.  I drilled a few small holes in the sides for air.

For soil I took a large pile of wood chips and shredded leaves and let it sit out for many months.  Beetles, worms, and other bugs gradually reduced it to "castings".  So the substrate was almost pure castings90%, with maybe 10% sticks and twigs and dozens of millipedes came along for the ride.  Because there is so little water loss, I can easily let them completely alone for 4 weeks without the soil drying out.  I think I have left them as long as 2-3 months without problem.  When I do water them I flood them so that the water level just covers the soil completely.  At first I just used plain water but I have used a little 10-30-20 a few times.
When I transplanted out the big ones I decided to add some pebbles on top for support for the remaining ones, to keep them from tipping over.


These are P. Torches


A month or two ago I took the biggest ones and transplanted them to 1 gallon pots, with a mix of promix and cinder and decomposed organic material.  I don't water them regularly.  I don't have time, most of my cacti are a little neglected which is why I like them, they don't need daily attention.  The ones that were left in the tub are faring much better and now dwarf the ones transplanted out.





---


Now these B. Torches have been in a tub of 1" of cinder for about 6+ months and have been growing but very slowly and their color is not that great.  I got some store bought worm castings and made the sub 2.5" deep or so and transplanted them.  I've heard these guys don't like standing water but I plan to flood some of them and see what happens.  I have been watering these guys with 10-30-20 pretty much their whole life.

There are no drain holes at the bottoms of the tubs.


Edited by invitro (06/24/15 03:04 PM)


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OfflineUs.Two
The Innovator
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Registered: 01/29/12 Happy 12th Shroomiversary!
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21850875 - 06/24/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:  Very nice my friend, those guys look happy!


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OfflineUs.Two
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Registered: 01/29/12 Happy 12th Shroomiversary!
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: Us.Two]
    #21850884 - 06/24/15 02:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'd highly recommend some serious drain holes bro, I don't believe any good can come of stagnant water and nute mixtures


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Registered: 12/05/06
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: Us.Two]
    #21853327 - 06/25/15 12:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I agree, cacti are already prone to rot and unless they're root bound then I doubt they will soak up the water faster than fungus will start to grow.


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: krypto2000]
    #21853404 - 06/25/15 12:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

They are not prone to rot as small seedings. 

Does it look like they are rotting from the pics? 

I used to flood them constantly, they are in a total swamp for days and weeks at a time.

Older cacti might be a different story.


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21853852 - 06/25/15 05:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
They are not prone to rot as small seedings. 

Does it look like they are rotting from the pics? 

I used to flood them constantly, they are in a total swamp for days and weeks at a time.

Older cacti might be a different story.




I disagree.


--------------------
I am.


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: kosmokratorshaman]
    #21853983 - 06/25/15 07:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have 1000+ healthy seedlings (pedro, p. torch, B torch) that I flood out and leave flooded for many days at a time.  I've been doing this for about 5 months.  Recently I've left them a little dry because it's just a hobby and I haven't gotten around to watering them.

If you have some evidence to the contrary let's see it.


Edited by invitro (06/25/15 07:23 AM)


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21854926 - 06/25/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I decided to flood these trays today, lets see what happens!









Notice the standing water!  This can be a little bit of a scary concept at first because it's counter to what most people have been lead to believe.

All trays have a 2" clear dome on top of them.


Edited by invitro (06/25/15 12:22 PM)


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21854972 - 06/25/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I would say you are pretty lucky to not have ton of rot using such green soil and swamping em like that :eek:

Those look good though, they must enjoy the extra water and whatever light you give em.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: musiclover420]
    #21855013 - 06/25/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

musiclover420 said:
I would say you are pretty lucky to not have ton of rot using such green soil and swamping em like that :eek:

Those look good though, they must enjoy the extra water and whatever light you give em.



:whathesaid:
I'm surprised to not see a bunch of green myself...

How fast do they drink up all that water? I imagine how densely you have them planted is working to your advantage as well. How do you sterilize your soil before planting, and do you treat it in between waterings with peroxide or anything?


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'





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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #21855070 - 06/25/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When I start from seed, I sterilize the "soil" (it's black cinder) by boiling it for 30-45 minutes.  I have experimental trays going with worm castings and woodchips that have no sterilization of any kind and are teaming with bugs as I swamp them.  Those are actually doing the best.

I flood the trays from day 1 of putting the seed down.  only the very top of the rocks is without water as they germinate and put down roots. 

It takes days for the water to go away, I haven't measured it exactly yet but I am now.  I assume most of it evaporates, and when it happens to catch my attention that the water is low, I fill er right back up to the top.  It's the ultimate set and forget.  There is no way I could take care of these plants without this method.

I also fertilize at full strength from day 1.  This idea that you can't feed plants until a certain time has passed, it totally false.


Edited by invitro (06/25/15 01:01 PM)


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OfflineUs.Two
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Registered: 01/29/12 Happy 12th Shroomiversary!
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21855123 - 06/25/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In invitro's defense even though I feel otherwise, in my years of growing Trichocereus the only time I've had a problem with rot is when I planted a large bridgesi with the perskiopsis root stock still attached to the bottom (which was completely under the soil) and the perskiopsis rotted somethin fierce and pulled the yuck up through my bridgesi.  But otherwise I've always flooded mine on a daily, albeit with drain holes in the containers.  Hey invitro, maybe if you have an adult to spare you could try and see if it's the same situation with them and enlighten us :smile:


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: Us.Two]
    #21855184 - 06/25/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

ok :smile:

So I took a pedro that is nearly 2 feet tall:sanpedro:  It's in a one gallon pot.  I set it in water in a 5 gallon bucket, the soil is completely underwater now.

I've never done this so I only am starting with one cactus.

It would take too long to let the water evaporate I think, so I will probably remove a few cups of water every few days.  I don't really have a solid plan on that part but I think I should leave it submerged for 24 hours atleast...


Edited by invitro (06/25/15 07:17 PM)


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Registered: 04/23/14
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21855297 - 06/25/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I like your attitude, man. Do what works for ya. I might try to do one of my pots of seedlings like this just to see what happens for me. A set-and-forget approach is definitely for me (assuming it works).


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'





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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #21855380 - 06/25/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have definitely lost some cacti over the course of time to rot but I have heard that some losses are inevitable from seed, so I haven't attributed that to the flooding. 

My attitude about the whole thing is that seeds are cheap, my time is not, and I hate repetitive tasks like watering.

Even -supposing- the losses of this method were 50% greater than a dry method (for arguments sake), just sow 2x as many seeds as you need.

I'd feel bad if I -were- just getting lucky and it didn't work for you, please only test what you can afford to loose.

Good luck


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21855635 - 06/25/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I just repotted all these guys



They needed it.  I found 2 that were rotted at the base.  That's 2 out of maybe 45 in the past ..maybe 2 months.  One had a callous
at the base, I repotted it.

I was picking through the flooded flats and found a handful of ones that had rotted at the base, some had re-sprouted roots!

So yea I loose cacti with this method, but from what I've read I'm within the norm.

For all I know I'm selecting genetics for water-loving trichs that love to be submerged...


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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21856731 - 06/25/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Also I missed your question about peroxide, no I don't treat with anything between waterings.  Mostly they dry out between waterings, due to being forgotten, but sometimes I re-water before things dry out.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21858888 - 06/26/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
It takes days for the water to go away, I haven't measured it exactly yet but I am now.  I assume most of it evaporates, and when it happens to catch my attention that the water is low, I fill er right back up to the top.  It's the ultimate set and forget.  There is no way I could take care of these plants without this method.




What I do is use plastic storage trays similar to what you have and drill drainage holes in the ones with plants in them. You put water in an undrilled one of the same size and then set your tray of plants in the tray of water. When it's soaked through you take that tray out and put in the next one. With lots of trays it's like an assembly line, pretty minimal effort.

Obviously what you're doing has worked so far, but you may get much heavier losses if conditions change (e.g. if they get too cold.)


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21859296 - 06/26/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
I'd feel bad if I -were- just getting lucky and it didn't work for you, please only test what you can afford to loose.





That's what I meant. I'll probably start a small amount of extra seed I have And see how it does.


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'





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Offlineinvitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
Re: Starting cacti from seed. [Re: invitro]
    #21860787 - 06/26/15 04:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
ok :smile:

So I took a pedro that is nearly 2 feet tall:sanpedro:  It's in a one gallon pot.  I set it in water in a 5 gallon bucket, the soil is completely underwater now.

I've never done this so I only am starting with one cactus.

It would take too long to let the water evaporate I think, so I will probably remove a few cups of water every few days.  I don't really have a solid plan on that part but I think I should leave it submerged for 24 hours atleast...




So.. about 27 hours later, the water level is down 1 inch from where it was yesterday.  I poured off the water and let 3/4 of an inch of water standing in the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket.  This particular cactus had not been watered in a few weeks and probably really needed the drink.

I also have several pups planted in pure pro-mix (peat moss) in one gallon pots, to find out if cacti are ok with it.

The 4 flooded trays are virtually the same as they were yesterday.


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