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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
    #21850453 - 06/24/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I could be wrong, but when I did a side by side comparison, every single jar I shook had more growth:shrug:

I'm trying to wrap my head around if there's 10s and 100s of million of spores in the jar, how is a shake going to scatter them too much...


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850469 - 06/24/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I would like to see a side by side compression with one cc per qt jar.


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OfflineGreen Bastard
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850482 - 06/24/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buck513 said:



Has anyone tried a side by side comparison on shaking and not? I know I have, but I'm all ears if someone wants to chime in




I agree with not being a sheeple. Those who just parrot others aren't advancing the field in any way.

So, your side by side showed an initial shake, after MS inoculation, was just as effective?
What was the volume of liquid that you injected? Jar size? Rye, WBS, or oats?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850494 - 06/24/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buck513 said:
I could be wrong, but when I did a side by side comparison, every single jar I shook had more growth:shrug:

I'm trying to wrap my head around if there's 10s and 100s of million of spores in the jar, how is a shake going to scatter them too much...




you dont wanna use that much spore solution in your jars or that much spores into your syringes.

not shaking after inoc is good practice, you wanna shake at 30% anyway.

It'd be real foolish to disregard everything RR has done here just because he as many others has changed his stance on things over the yrs.


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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Green Bastard]
    #21850502 - 06/24/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a wbs whore.

It was quart jars that I put like .5cc in each jar. Perhaps a little less.

Another good thing to do is not just hold someone's words like its truth. Try it for yourself, experiment, etc. Do you know how many things have been proved wrong by not listening solely to what others say, and trying it for yourself?

Im willing to bet this is another example. Everyone reads its not good to shake after ms inoc, so why test it out?


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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21850514 - 06/24/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Quote:

Buck513 said:
I could be wrong, but when I did a side by side comparison, every single jar I shook had more growth:shrug:

I'm trying to wrap my head around if there's 10s and 100s of million of spores in the jar, how is a shake going to scatter them too much...




you dont wanna use that much spore solution in your jars or that much spores into your syringes.

not shaking after inoc is good practice, you wanna shake at 30% anyway.

It'd be real foolish to disregard everything RR has done here just because he as many others has changed his stance on things over the yrs.




Well according to bod there can be billions of spores on a print/syringe.
Soo...wouldn't it be kinda hard not to get that many spores?


And no, I never said that. RR is a great guy and I'm sad he left, but the way some people hold his word like it came from god is foolish.
My only point was RR is human, like the rest of us. Don't expect 100% of what you hear to be true. Regardless of who's saying it


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Invisiblemush madness
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850521 - 06/24/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I have done a side by side with 1 cc MS on rye

I can say with a MS I now shake once (and only once) at about 30%


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850531 - 06/24/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

1 print can easily make 50 syringes and as I said you want as few spores as possible in your syringe for the cleanest possible solution.

Quote:

Buck513 said:
RR has been right as many times as he's been wrong.




this is what I was refering to.
1, its not true and
2, isn't this word for word exactly what azur says? so you dont want people quoting rr but parroting azur is OK? :tongue2:


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OfflineGreen Bastard
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21850546 - 06/24/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
1 print can easily make 50 syringes and as I said you want as few spores as possible in your syringe for the cleanest possible solution.

Quote:

Buck513 said:
RR has been right as many times as he's been wrong.




this is what I was refering to.
1, its not true and
2, isn't this word for word exactly what azur says? so you dont want people quoting rr but parroting azur is OK? :tongue2:




You know that's "comparing apples to oranges", eh?

He didn't say don't quote RR. Just don't treat every word as gospel.


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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21850547 - 06/24/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I seen him say that a couple days ago. But it is true. I used to worship RR, then when I first started growing and was quoting him on things people ripped me a new asshole cause I didn't know what I was talking about lol.
I'm aware spores can go a very long way, but really I don't think many people will make 50 syringes from a print. I think we can agree whatever you're using, there's a lot more spores in there than you need.

If you think I don't like RR you're wrong.
As I said before, my only point, was to not just take everyone at their word. Even RR. Test things out for yourselves and experiment


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21850614 - 06/24/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yeah just throwing out quotes isnt considered good debating, especially when people are new and dont quite get what they're quoting.
but saying RR is wrong as much as he's right just doesnt sit right with me,
that would mean there's 20k+ bad info posts from RR here. He like many others are allowed to change his stance over the yrs
and of course he's just human and has bad days just like the rest of us.


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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850623 - 06/24/15 02:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Just for clarity sake, dispersing spores wouldn't hinder germination, but it would slow down the process by which the monokaryon hyphae meet one another and form stable dikaryons.

Also, given that spores are mildly hydrophobic, they would tend to form clusters of several spores in water solutions, given no other variables (I will admit here that I have never worked with Psilocybe spores in water without adding surfactant so this is an assumption).

Having never works with spores in grain I have no idea how much shaking would or would not affect colonization rates, but bare logic would suggest it would speed things up overall, though it may take longer for pretty visible hyphae to really appear. Worth an experiment if anyone is bored. Just dont forget your controls!


Hmm... agar plate, streak spores for isolation, pull individual spores and place directly on one another, 1mm apart, 1cm apart, and track germination time and plasmogamy time... But would need to do everything in multiples to assure you arent buggered by mating type... Hrm, wish I had some Basidiomycete spores to play with in lab, this could get convoluted.


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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21850627 - 06/24/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you want to get THAT technical, I doubt all 40k+ posts are cult related, and offering advice.

But no, I'm not saying 50% of his posts are trash, and 50% are good.
That's just taking it too literal.


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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21850739 - 06/24/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

And, not to bash RR, cuz he's an amazing Man, who has done much for mycology, but many (lots!) of those 40,000 posts are just him re re re re repeating himself....

When my Dad was given The Mushroom Cultivator, as a gift from one of the authors, the first year that it was published, it was an excellent resource. Much of it is still valid, but imagine where we'd be now, if we were still just following Paul and Jeff's words as gospel?


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InvisibleT-Funkadelic
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Green Bastard]
    #21851018 - 06/24/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's just colonizing jars. If you know how to prep grain and own a PC and you're cultivating cubes, I really don't see anything difficult about it. Do what ever you think works best for you.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21851025 - 06/24/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buck513 said:
That's just taking it too literal.




maybe I am, your statement just seemed kinda bold to me.
I'm not saying he is spot on on everything but comments like yours does nothing but cast suspicion on everything he's done here.
The fact you've tried it once doesnt mean the theory is debunked. I'd rather see you explain why you feel the specific quote is wrong/not spot on/questionable whatever..

I hope you get where I'm coming from here, its not directed at you specifically its just coincidence I'm saying it now but
I've just seen an upswing in new growers say things like that from the week RR left.
I dont think its coincidence there weren't as many speaking up while he was still around..


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InvisibleBuck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: spacechildo]
    #21851055 - 06/24/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I never said it was 100% debunked.
But I feel even with a syringe made from 1/50th of a print, there are still so many spores in .5-1cc of solution shaking it will not do a single thing.

Not sure why you feel I'm hating on RR, I love the guy. I wish he would come back, andddd I wasn't even posting much when RR was around so:shrug:

And I'm not sure what quote you're talking about. Like I said before, if someone like RR or someone of his stature, said shaking after inoc is bad, how many people are going to test it?

Im wondering how many actually have noced up jars like this and did a comparison. It was actually the first thing I "tested" in this hobby. It was only 30-40 jars so I can't debunk it with that test alone.
Again, there's so many spores even in a well diluted syringe, that shaking them and it causing harm I just find total bs


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InvisibleBuck513

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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21851114 - 06/24/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Let's say a spore print contains 500,000,000 spores. Which I feel is a bit conservative.
But at any rate, say you make 100 syringes with that spore print.

There should be 5 million spores in every syringe.
5 million divided by 10cc is 500,000.

There should be 500,000 spores in every CC of liquid which means there's 25,000 spores in every single drop of solution.


So I ask again, is shaking after inoc gonna disturb them to where they can't connect with each other?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
    #21851138 - 06/24/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

just imagine the square inches total of spores and the sq inches or maybe cubic inches.

I've had different exp than you, I saw weak growth many places in the jar when I shook after inoc
and once I stopped doing that it seemed like it grew in thicker faster growing patches that got to 30# sooner than the shaken earlier jars did.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Wondering about why 4 inoculation holes [Re: Buck513]
    #21851356 - 06/24/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buck513 said:
Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Just to be clear since he's new, you shake after your spores germinate into thick white stripes, not immediately after injecting spores.



Uhh, no you dont.

There's already 10s if not 100s of millions of spores in the amount of solution you squirted into the jars, shaking them after inoculation is only beneficial.





Buck did you even read what he said?  I mean he was still technically incorrect since you shake at ~20% but he specifically said after germination.


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