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JohnDoeKENTUCKY
Stranger


Registered: 06/17/15
Posts: 47
Loc: KENTUCKY
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Wondering about why 4 inoculation holes
#21848177 - 06/23/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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(1) So I was wondering when using rye seed as substrate, to inoculate it using a spore syringe, why do people put 4 holes for injection rather than one if everything gonna get shaken up and mixed up any way?
(2) Also I need to know if inoculated rye seed jars need any air exchange (via un tightened mason jar or filter tape over inoculation points) at any point during their incubation?
(3) Can I just used duct tape to cover innoc. Points of should I use filter tape? My filter tape keeps getting wet in the PC even though I'm covering it with tin foil, after all wet filter tape is useless cuz bacteria can travel cross it.
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
Loc: South East USA
Last seen: 7 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: Wondering about why 4 inoculation holes [Re: JohnDoeKENTUCKY] 1
#21848217 - 06/23/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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use the search engine. dude, I'm very sorry bro. check my sig maybe?
that's a haiku btw
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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1 - to allow the most opportunities for myc to grow.
2 - yes, that's why we have air filters on the jar lids.
3 - I'm confused by this question. It sounds like you're knocking up jars then pc'ing them after, which is backwards procedure.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer


Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Wondering about why 4 inoculation holes [Re: Myconin]
#21848485 - 06/23/15 11:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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1. They don't, many have one SHIP and one 1/4" hole for GE through a filter.
2. YES, they need GE. Keep the lid tight. The gases will exchange via the hole with the filter on it.
3. Do not use duct tape. MicroPore tape may work, but an SFD would be better. Cover the lid in PC. Remove and discard tinfoil. Inoculate. Do not incubate. Room temperature. Ambient light.
Any of the TEKs in a Trusted Cultivators sig or grow log will do you proud.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
Edited by SteveRogers (06/23/15 11:51 PM)
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Quote:
JohnDoeKENTUCKY said: (1) So I was wondering when using rye seed as substrate, to inoculate it using a spore syringe, why do people put 4 holes for injection rather than one if everything gonna get shaken up and mixed up any way? You should not have 4 holes. This is a PF tek lid. Since it's difficult or impossible to shake PF cakes and they are typically noc'd with shitty spore inoculant, getting it all over those PFtits is importante. For grains such as Rye or Rye Grass Seed, you should only have a single hole, since shaking removes the need for such thorough inoculation.
(2) Also I need to know if inoculated rye seed jars need any air exchange (via un tightened mason jar or filter tape over inoculation points) at any point during their incubation? Typically yes. You can get away with none if you use a powerful inoculation method that results in extremely fast colonization.
(3) Can I just used duct tape to cover innoc. Points of should I use filter tape? My filter tape keeps getting wet in the PC even though I'm covering it with tin foil, after all wet filter tape is useless cuz bacteria can travel cross it. If you don't have a still air box, you should either stuff the hole with polyfill, which you can inject through and protects against contams, or use a synthetic or tyvek disk with RTV silicon ontop as an injection port. You could also just make sure your foil lids are TIGHT during the PC run and use no hole cover, then, with all your windows shut in still air conditions, inject through your hole, and slap a piece of micropore over it ASAP. It's pretty ghetto but it will probably work
If you do have an air box, just cut an appropriately sized disc of postal tyvek (priority evelope) and put it between your lid and your ring, and pop the top in your airbox and give it two quick squirts down opposite walls.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
Edited by Machiavelliavore (06/24/15 12:26 AM)
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MUSHmania
Stranger

Registered: 06/06/15
Posts: 5
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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People don't use 4 holes when knocking up grain. That's only for pf tek, and yes that's to spread inoc points. You need more holes in a pf jar because you can't shake them. With grain after you knock them up, you shake it....that distributes the inoc points
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Wondering about why 4 inoculation holes [Re: MUSHmania]
#21848836 - 06/24/15 02:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just to be clear since he's new, you shake after your spores germinate into thick white stripes, not immediately after injecting spores.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Just to be clear since he's new, you shake after your spores germinate into thick white stripes, not immediately after injecting spores.
Uhh, no you dont.
There's already 10s if not 100s of millions of spores in the amount of solution you squirted into the jars, shaking them after inoculation is only beneficial.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



Registered: 12/08/14
Posts: 3,038
Loc: The Sporetorn States
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
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Re: Wondering about why 4 inoculation holes [Re: Buck513]
#21848852 - 06/24/15 03:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It probably works either way but I believe germinate and shake is extremely standard, the idea being that by keeping spores clustered, they are more likely to connect with other spores. Probably also a good idea in that any contam in the syringe will have an obscene number of spores germinate next to it, rather than distributing that contam which would then have more room to grow before having to fight mushroom mycellium.
Honestly I would never noc an entire quart with MS spore solution. I'd much rather do a pint or half pint, then G2G.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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That's just the thing. There's already 10s or 100s of million of spores in there to connect with each other. Shaking it ain't gonna do a damn thing.
Try testing this out for yourself...get some jars, shake half and don't shake half.
I already know what the results will be lol
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Probably also a good idea in that any contam in the syringe will have an obscene number of spores germinate next to it, rather than distributing that contam which would then have more room to grow before having to fight mushroom mycellium.

I'm just now returning from a ban, so I better let this one go lol
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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JohnDoeKENTUCKY
Stranger


Registered: 06/17/15
Posts: 47
Loc: KENTUCKY
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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so when I PC the jars with grain would it be good to put a tyvek filter under jar band, and then just a small innoc point with micro pore tape put on it after I take the jar out of PC? Hole should be small (nail hole) or big (1/4") that i put micropore over? And after I use a spore syringe to innoc the jar do I cover the hole? Lastly do I put the foil over jar after innoc? Thanks
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer


Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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If you really insist on using Tyvek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10628004/fpart/1/vc/1
Just for shits he even does a four hole pf style lid in the same manner. A waste of time/ware on drill bit/RTV silicone in my opinion but there it is if it makes you sleep better while your jars colonize. That many injections in one jar really only increases the number of contamination vectors.
I am certainly no Citric (a legend), but I feel SFD's would perform better than postal Tyvek.
Good luck to you.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
Edited by SteveRogers (06/24/15 12:15 PM)
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T-Funkadelic
Hepatitis G



Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 11,392
Loc: 2535 W Fairmont Ave MD 21223
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When using multi spore's I shake my grain jars at 20-30% colonization.
Quote: For many years we have known you should not shake after inoculating with spores.RR
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: T-Funkadelic]
#21850235 - 06/24/15 12:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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RR has been right as many times as he's been wrong. You want me to start citing some 10yr old quotes from RR that is complete nonsense?
Has anyone tried a side by side comparison on shaking and not? I know I have, but I'm all ears if someone wants to chime in
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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shroomyaxn



Registered: 11/13/11
Posts: 276
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
#21850406 - 06/24/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said: RR has been right as many times as he's been wrong. You want me to start citing some 10yr old quotes from RR that is complete nonsense?
I call bullshit on this.
Facts below:
Quote:
TranscendingLife said: Do not shake any grain jars after inoculating with MS. If inoculating w/ LC, agar wedges or G2G, shake well after inoculation. Then shake again around 20-50% colonization, except for G2Gs. G2Gs don't get shaken after the initial shake to distribute the colonized grains.
Quote:
TranscendingLife said: Don't shake after inoculating w/ MS. You'll scatter the spores too much and they'll have a harder time germinating. You shake @ 20-40% that's it.
There are plenty more posts from trusted cultivates stating the same exact thing as above.
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: shroomyaxn]
#21850413 - 06/24/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seriously, if you think RR hasn't been wrong countless times then you just simply don't know what you're talking about.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Buck513

Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
#21850428 - 06/24/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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And citing tl? Yeah, he's a cool dude with lots of good stuff.
Try citing someone that's actually active...
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Green Bastard
Stranger

Registered: 02/26/14
Posts: 199
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: shroomyaxn]
#21850429 - 06/24/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thread with a side by side comparison, would be appropriate, right about now.... Guess volume of spores injected would be a huge factor...
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T-Funkadelic
Hepatitis G



Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 11,392
Loc: 2535 W Fairmont Ave MD 21223
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Re: Using types for filter, air box? [Re: Buck513]
#21850441 - 06/24/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, RR and most of the TC's seem to agree from what I've read.
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