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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21874642 - 06/29/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Not so much.  There is no biological foundation for racial lines.  Race is a social construct, pure and simple.



There is no biological foundation for different breeds of dogs either, are you going to argue that pitbulls and Pekingese are "social construct"?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21874919 - 06/29/15 06:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't have to argue that, but yes...society has arbitrarily divided the species into breeds.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21874983 - 06/29/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't have to argue that, but yes...society has arbitrarily divided the species into breeds.



These different breeds all have different personalities, temperaments, strengths and weaknesses.  We as a society did not "arbitrarily" divide them into breeds.  We saw and recognized these differences, and we categorized accordingly, despite the fact that there were no strict, biological differences between them.  Same deal with the different races of people.

Are you able to tell part a pitbull and a Pekingese?  If you can, then congratulation, you just divided these two into two distinct breeds.  Did you do so "arbitrarily"?  I don't think you did.  You make the distinction between them in a logical way (in other words, you saw with your own eyes that these two breeds look different and act different).


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21876786 - 06/30/15 06:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
You can side with the politically motivated "scientists" and ill side with the ones who are not out desperately trying to push their bogus hypotheses because racism.



Please help me understand why you believe scientists are politically motivated?  If that were really true, climate scientists would have only about 50% believing in man made global warming.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: qman]
    #21876812 - 06/30/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Isn't it also irrational to assume everyone is equal?  Isn't it also very irrational to assume every culture is equal in nature?



That's not what anyone said.

Quote:

qman said:
Where is the critical thinking in believing that every PC thought is just and righteous like some many do?  This lack of critical thinking goes across a very large spectrum in my opinion.



I don't believe Enlil is the PC police at all; quite the contrary.  Neither am I.  If you don't believe race is a social construct, don't make up things that don't exist to defend your position.

Is Obama the first black president?  Or is he only half black?  It's a semantics game, invented by people.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21876902 - 06/30/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
You can side with the politically motivated "scientists" and ill side with the ones who are not out desperately trying to push their bogus hypotheses because racism.



Shins, you're arguing out of both sides of your mouth.  First, you argue that the claim that race is a social construct contradicts biology, and now you argue that those same biologists are somehow biased and rendering opinions based on that bias.

If you think the minority of biologists are correct, fine. You're entitled to think that.  I certainly don't claim to have all of the answers, and maybe the majority of physical anthropologists and biologists are wrong.  I'm never going to be a world-renowned scientist, so I have to go with the available information, and the available information is that those who are experts believe race to be a social construct.

But, if you think your process is any less biased, you're fooling yourself.  You are simply disregarding the scientists who disagree with your stated belief.  That is certainly not a more effective approach at getting to the truth than my way.

I'm always open to change my position, and if the scientific community shifts the opinion, I'd likely do so.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21876923 - 06/30/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Again with your trying to manufacture consensus where there is none.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21876938 - 06/30/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I never said there was a consensus. I simply said the majority of physical anthropologists and biologists share my opinion.  Majority isn't the same a consensus. Consensus requires a strong supermajority, and I've never claimed that. 

50 years ago, your opinion would have been the consensus of biologists.  That's simply not true anymore.  In school, I was taught the old "three race" doctrine, too, but I've had to relearn things as science has discovered more.  Eventually, the notion of biological race in humans will become a historical anecdote much like the study of phrenology.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21876945 - 06/30/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No it won't.  Get out of here with your PC BS


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21876961 - 06/30/15 08:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You can fight the tide of science, but it's going to move forward with or without you. Grow and learn with it, or desperately cling to your outdated notions...I couldn't care less which you choose.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21877003 - 06/30/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
No it won't.  Get out of here with your PC BS




What an eloquent rebuttal full of evidence to support your point!


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21877378 - 06/30/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Its not science though,  its PC politics, trying to call it science is also political nonsense.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21877396 - 06/30/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

With all due respect, have you ever been professionally involved in any field of science?


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21877402 - 06/30/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Shins said:
No it won't.  Get out of here with your PC BS




What an eloquent rebuttal full of evidence to support your point!





Because Enlil has provided so much evidence right?  Oh wait he's provided none.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21877407 - 06/30/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
With all due respect, have you ever been professionally involved in any field of science?




Irrelevant.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21877417 - 06/30/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:

Shins said:
No it won't.  Get out of here with your PC BS




What an eloquent rebuttal full of evidence to support your point!





Because Enlil has provided so much evidence right?  Oh wait he's provided none.




Actually, he provided an article that cites studies and researchers stating their findings. Wheres the evidence you provided?

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
With all due respect, have you ever been professionally involved in any field of science?




Irrelevant.




I only ask because you are making a lot of claims about how science works, but it seems you haven't had the experience with science to be accurately making such assumptions.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21877433 - 06/30/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I never once talked at all about how science works, nor do you need to be a professional scientist to know scientific method.


its true, even you could learn one day.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21877476 - 06/30/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not talking about the scientific method. I'm talking about all your claims about how politics influences science (see below). Unless you've read may papers, talked to professors, or otherwise kept close tabs on a field, you don't really have the data to say how much politics influences these fields. You just choose not to listen to the results.

Quote:

Shins said:
Its not science though,  its PC politics, trying to call it science is also political nonsense.




Quote:

You can side with the politically motivated "scientists" and ill side with the ones who are not out desperately trying to push their bogus hypotheses because racism.




--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21877531 - 06/30/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So you don't think the sciences are ever at all influenced by politics? Or that pseudo science is ever used to try snd back up a political conclusion after the fact? You might be more naive than I thought.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21877549 - 06/30/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I never made any of those claims, nor do I believe them to be true. Before calling me naive, perhaps you should actually read what I write.

You seem to be under the impression that science, or at least certain fields, are entirely or almost entirely controlled by politics. In my experience, this is a massive exaggeration. I'm asking you what you are basing your claims on. Have you ever had any direct experience with science in a professional capacity?


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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