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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21856999 - 06/25/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Interesting. So you are actually making the argument that black people are inherently more violent in their nature, because they are black. You fail to see my point regarding MLK? That under all of that pressure, while being physically violently oppressed, they did not follow suite? They did not become violent, but they are prone to violent tendencies?

I dunno. This is just getting stupid. Do you really not understand my arguments, or are you just trying to ignore them?

I see what you're saying about the green scarves. It is a good point. Don't you think that if people were educated further about what was going on they might react in a more appropriate manner than avoiding all people with green? Especially if the majority of their encounters were of no consequence? (Unless you're going to make the case that the majority of encounters with black people are negative)

I'm from a big city in Michigan. There are a lot of black folks there. They don't only exist in the South, contrary to what you may have been told. Also, I left it to you to extrapolate, but poverty is only one contributing factor to black violence. There are many more. Do I have to spoon feed it to you?




again, a small sample of a population not becoming violent after being spit on and sprayed with hoses is not counter proof that blacks statistically cause more violence than any other race.

I think if people were better educated then we wouldn't have such a large percentage of the black population being degenerate fuck ups. And I honestly don't think that black people are genetically predisposed to being more violent, but the culture that they ratify and rally behind celebrates violence and is therefor reflected in their behavior.
Bottom line, if you want to see less racism towards black people, make better black people or have them assimilate better. I appreciate it when black people celebrate their african heritage, because that culture and identity is far superior to the modern day black american culture.

You want to know who really hates black americans the most? go to africa and find out. I was friends with the nephew of the Nigerian ambassador to the US--hands down the most racist person I have ever met towards black americans.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21857072 - 06/25/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think we have to remedy the social circumstances that bear abhorrent tendencies. I don't think the solution is to continue kicking people when they're down and telling them to get up. There is so much at work here, it really isn't something that can be simply described. For instance, many negative cultural tendencies have been passed down through generations of poor upbringing and lack of a decent education. Also, black culture idolizes violent individuals, but that is starting to change, I think.

As I've said before. It's like starting a monopoly game, and having one player jump in the game when all of the property is already owned. Then complaining that they haven't managed to be competitive. Of course this is an incredible simplification. It is a 2 dimensional view of a 3 dimensional problem. It's not just financial, it's education, and cultural. It's also systemic. The judicial system assigns disproportionate punishment for the same crimes to black people. We are seeing an increasing number of examples of racism in law enforcement. It is a complex issue.

A case can easily be made against white people also. There are external factors. Racism is unjustifiable.


--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21857334 - 06/25/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21857471 - 06/25/15 09:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.




i dont think you comprehend what the phrase "social construct" means. Borders, salutations, morality-- all social constructs. observable and genetic delineation is not a construct of society. at all. not in any way. It is buffoonery to say so.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21857666 - 06/25/15 10:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I think we have to remedy the social circumstances that bear abhorrent tendencies. I don't think the solution is to continue kicking people when they're down and telling them to get up. There is so much at work here, it really isn't something that can be simply described. For instance, many negative cultural tendencies have been passed down through generations of poor upbringing and lack of a decent education. Also, black culture idolizes violent individuals, but that is starting to change, I think.

As I've said before. It's like starting a monopoly game, and having one player jump in the game when all of the property is already owned. Then complaining that they haven't managed to be competitive. Of course this is an incredible simplification. It is a 2 dimensional view of a 3 dimensional problem. It's not just financial, it's education, and cultural. It's also systemic. The judicial system assigns disproportionate punishment for the same crimes to black people. We are seeing an increasing number of examples of racism in law enforcement. It is a complex issue.

A case can easily be made against white people also. There are external factors. Racism is unjustifiable.




When a black man is president of the united states, what glass ceiling is there anymore? I will agree that blacks are disproportionately targeted by police authorities, but that comes with the unwillingness to assimilate properly and compounded by actual elevated numbers of crime in black neighborhoods. Don't get mad at the cops for constantly getting calls from black neighborhoods and then discovering a theme or common thread within the criminal element. My car has no bumper stickers, I don't bump loud music, or have flashy rims and severe tint... black culture is about flash and calling attention to yourself. Blacks have collectively conditioned the police to treat them differently.
You think police get trained to treat blacks differently, or they learn from experience that pulling over a black person has a great chance to be a volatile situation than pulling over a white person?

everything else you cited such as socioeconomic disparity, education, is bullshit. Blacks are afforded the exact same opportunities that every other person is afforded. There are more scholarships, handouts and special interest groups trying to elevate individual blacks out of their mire of a culture, than there are for a poor white/asian/mexican kid.

The black community, IMO, has actually regressed since the 80's. We haven't helped either with this wave of "moral reparations" towards the black community. Black kids are taught and told from an early age that shit is gonna be tough, everyone is out to get you and see you fail.... and when they do, well it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21857802 - 06/25/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.




i dont think you comprehend what the phrase "social construct" means. Borders, salutations, morality-- all social constructs. observable and genetic delineation is not a construct of society. at all. not in any way. It is buffoonery to say so.



I didn't expect you to understand, actually.  You're one of the uneducated that I've previously spoken about.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21857851 - 06/25/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.




i dont think you comprehend what the phrase "social construct" means. Borders, salutations, morality-- all social constructs. observable and genetic delineation is not a construct of society. at all. not in any way. It is buffoonery to say so.




Genetically there is hardly any difference between races. The genetic factors that account for the perceived races are so miniscule they wouldn't even make 1/1000% difference, and even then we all fall somewhere on a spectrum of race. This reminds me of an episode of Maury or some other talk show, where they were testing the genes of a devout racist. They found that he was 6 generations separate from an African tribe! He was white as a sheet. There's really very little genetic difference between human beings and chimps, even!


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (06/25/15 11:08 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21857909 - 06/25/15 11:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Are you arguing that someone shouldn't be able to have bumper stickers, have flashy rims, or tinted windows? I don't do any of these things, but I do enjoy knowing that during my inevitable middle aged break down when I hook up with a cute black girl I'll be able to deck my car out appropriately without being hassled by the police!
I would also like to point out that in predominately white neighborhoods, where the drug usage rates are equal, blacks are disproportionately judicialized. I'm sure Enlil can tell you plenty on this subject.

I could go on, but this conversation seems to be winding to a fruitless end.

You can justify racism all you like, it will continue to be unjust. You can try to rebrand it all you like, it's still the same ugly brand.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21857972 - 06/25/15 11:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.




i dont think you comprehend what the phrase "social construct" means. Borders, salutations, morality-- all social constructs. observable and genetic delineation is not a construct of society. at all. not in any way. It is buffoonery to say so.



I didn't expect you to understand, actually.  You're one of the uneducated that I've previously spoken about.




really? you aren't even going to defend your amazingly pathetic position at all, just sling insults?

please, elaborate for me, how race is a social construct. get lucid kid.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21857983 - 06/25/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We are 'the human race'.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
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Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21857998 - 06/25/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Are you arguing that someone shouldn't be able to have bumper stickers, have flashy rims, or tinted windows? I don't do any of these things, but I do enjoy knowing that during my inevitable middle aged break down when I hook up with a cute black girl I'll be able to deck my car out appropriately without being hassled by the police!
I would also like to point out that in predominately white neighborhoods, where the drug usage rates are equal, blacks are disproportionately judicialized. I'm sure Enlil can tell you plenty on this subject.

I could go on, but this conversation seems to be winding to a fruitless end.

You can justify racism all you like, it will continue to be unjust. You can try to rebrand it all you like, it's still the same ugly brand.




Its kind of like what chris rock said about ho's. You may not be a ho, but you are wearing a Ho's uniform, so excuse me if I mistook you for a ho.

You are free to get a face tattoo, but don't get mad if people react to you a little differently.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21858006 - 06/25/15 11:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
We are 'the human race'.




no, we are human species. this would be like saying all dogs a labradors, which they clearly are not.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21858032 - 06/25/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.




i dont think you comprehend what the phrase "social construct" means. Borders, salutations, morality-- all social constructs. observable and genetic delineation is not a construct of society. at all. not in any way. It is buffoonery to say so.




Genetically there is hardly any difference between races. The genetic factors that account for the perceived races are so miniscule they wouldn't even make 1/1000% difference, and even then we all fall somewhere on a spectrum of race. This reminds me of an episode of Maury or some other talk show, where they were testing the genes of a devout racist. They found that he was 6 generations separate from an African tribe! He was white as a sheet. There's really very little genetic difference between human beings and chimps, even!





90% of our genetic information is junk. useless sequences that contain no relevant information due to virions inserting and propagating via our DNA. really only 10% of all our DNA has relevant information.

We share about 50% of our DNA with a banana.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21858247 - 06/26/15 01:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

what? race is a social construct?



Yup.




i dont think you comprehend what the phrase "social construct" means. Borders, salutations, morality-- all social constructs. observable and genetic delineation is not a construct of society. at all. not in any way. It is buffoonery to say so.




The reason race is a social construct is that it's not decided along genetic lines as you say. Black people, for example, come from different regions and countries and from genetic lines that haven't crossed in hundreds if not thousands of years. We group them all together because they look somewhat alike, but genetically, it's a huge spectrum of possibilities. The same is true for every other race. The divisions aren't based on genetics, but on appearance, and that's why it's a social construct.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21858698 - 06/26/15 06:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

please, elaborate for me, how race is a social construct. get lucid kid.



I'll leave it to the American Anthropological Association:

"the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups."

"Today scholars in many fields argue that "race" as it is understood in the United States of America was a social mechanism invented during the 18th century to refer to those populations brought together in colonial America"


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21858934 - 06/26/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

again, tell it to all the diseases that affect races distinctly. Diseases have no concept of social constructs and do not adhere to them.
You would make a better argument in regards to hutu and tutsi, or sunni and shiite. Those are social constructs where things that dont actually have a decision making process don't somehow magically discriminate.

plus the AAA has about as much objectivity and agenda as fox news. When a respected anthropologist came out with some severe findings that the AAA morally objected to it set out on a witch hunt to try and discredit him.
Quote:

The American Anthropological Association’s investigation of the charges in Darkness in El Dorado (Tierney 2000) found
that the late James Neel and Napoleon Chagnon harmed the Yanomami in the course of their research in Venezuela and Brazil, and
that Chagnon had violated the ethics code of the association. The association’s inquiry contravened its own policy prohibiting ethics
adjudications and was structured not by the standards of an objective investigation but by aspects of contemporary anthropology.
Moralized approaches to information and postmodern rejection of objectivity mark the language and methods of the inquiry. The
investigating task force did not observe reasonable standards of evidence, the targets of the investigation were not represented, and
task force members were compromised by conflicts of interest. The investigation and its collateral activities reflect a culture of accusation
and an anthropology uncertain of its ethical or scientific stature





Neel was persecuted by the AAA (which later admitted to) because his work was about the very thing we are talking about: genetic predisposition, which spit in the face of their liberal agenda.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis] * 1
    #21858966 - 06/26/15 08:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So, you're saying that races are determined by predisposal to particular diseases?  That's even more ludicrous than saying they're based on skin color.

White people get sickle cell disease, too.  It's a genetic trait.  Skin color is a genetic trait.  Race isn't a genetic trait.  Race is a socially-drawn line, that's it. 

I'm not here to educate you, though.  Your ideology requires you to find some rational reason that you must be superior to those you've defined as "black".  Who am I to stand in the way of your attempt to rationalize the irrational?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21860254 - 06/26/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you're saying that races are determined by predisposal to particular diseases?  That's even more ludicrous than saying they're based on skin color.

White people get sickle cell disease, too.  It's a genetic trait.  Skin color is a genetic trait.  Race isn't a genetic trait.  Race is a socially-drawn line, that's it. 

I'm not here to educate you, though.  Your ideology requires you to find some rational reason that you must be superior to those you've defined as "black".  Who am I to stand in the way of your attempt to rationalize the irrational?




no, I am saying that it is proof that it isn't a social construct. Also, I have never stated that any race is genetically inferior.

Yes, white people get SCA also, but not nearly at the rate black people do. Even treatments for the same disease can differ based solely on race in some cases. That is objective criteria, not merely a social construct. The HIV virus does not give a shit about social constructs, yet it affects black men differently than everyone else. There is a rare prion disease that only affects Sicilians. Even if you throw out all the genetic dependent diseases, there are still a good deal of other diseases that discriminate based on race.

If it were a completely illusory and made up demarcation, then non-conscious entities would discriminate based on those lines or criteria. it is that simple.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #21860327 - 06/26/15 02:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SneezingPenis said:

If it were a completely illusory and made up demarcation, then non-conscious entities would discriminate based on those lines or criteria. it is that simple.



I think you meant "wouldn't".

And they don't.

Sickle Cell is inherited.  It's not based on race.  It's based on ancestry.  The social construct of race has largely been based on ancestry as well.  Of course there would be a correlation between race and any inherited disease.


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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21863902 - 06/27/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

I never said what the flag means.  I said what it symbolizes.  Those aren't the same thing at all.  A symbol is a symbol for a reason, and community standards are what determine what something symbolizes.  A swastika symbolizes facism and intolerance.  It is absolutely NOT always used to promote either, and has historically been used for much more peaceful purposes....still, whether we like it or not, the swastika symbolizes intolerance.







By that definition, which I agree with, I think we have what is called 'reverse symbolism' The flag is being used as a symbol to attack a differing ideology, not because of the implied 'racism' that it symbolizes.


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