Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880291 - 06/30/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
This isn't a professional situation.  This is an internet forum.  I've made my arguments and cited my sources.  In return, the opposing side has offered nothing but anecdotes, fallacies, and irrelevancies. 

If you want to engage in a logical debate, you'll need to up your game significantly.  You can't expect anyone to take you seriously until you do that.




I don't totally disagree with any of that (although I think that the opposite side has some good arguments, too).  But I just want to know 1. why you think that "everything you know to do, you are taught".  And 2.  do you acknowledge that you are wrong for saying this.

P.s.  I see that you are implying that my "game" is inadequate.  Is this how you normally weasel out of a losing position, enlil?


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 09:25 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 minutes, 26 seconds
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880302 - 06/30/15 09:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You know, this argument died in the scientific world long before racism was so taboo.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 minutes, 26 seconds
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880340 - 06/30/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
This isn't a professional situation.  This is an internet forum.  I've made my arguments and cited my sources.  In return, the opposing side has offered nothing but anecdotes, fallacies, and irrelevancies. 

If you want to engage in a logical debate, you'll need to up your game significantly.  You can't expect anyone to take you seriously until you do that.




I don't totally disagree with any of that (although I think that the opposite side has some good arguments, too).  But I just want to know 1. why you think that "everything you know to do, you are taught".  And 2.  do you acknowledge that you are wrong for saying this.

P.s.  I see that you are implying that my "game" is inadequate.  Is this how you normally weasel out of a losing position, enlil?




Humans are born with arguably less instinct than any other mammal. That is because their brains have more developement to undergo after birth than any other animal. So yes, you are taught to think and do everything you think and do, to varying extents, via verbal and non-verbal que's. Learning capability and physical limitations also have an impact. If a black child is raised by a white family they don't see their parents as different, or brothers and sisters as a different race. I have a half brother who is half Kuwaiti. He never realized he was "different" from us til we were in our teens, and I didn't either.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880361 - 06/30/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:

P.s.  I see that you are implying that my "game" is inadequate.  Is this how you normally weasel out of a losing position, enlil?



Frankly, you've offered even less than the rest of the people on that side of the argument, and they've offered close to nothing.

If you have a rational argument based on facts from credible sources, I'm all eyes.  Show your stuff.

As far as a losing position, this debate has been so one sided, it's laughable.  I don't think any educated person would read this and think I am in a losing position here.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880379 - 06/30/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

WAN said:

P.s.  I see that you are implying that my "game" is inadequate.  Is this how you normally weasel out of a losing position, enlil?



Frankly, you've offered even less than the rest of the people on that side of the argument, and they've offered close to nothing.

If you have a rational argument based on facts from credible sources, I'm all eyes.  Show your stuff.

As far as a losing position, this debate has been so one sided, it's laughable.  I don't think any educated person would read this and think I am in a losing position here.



O rly?

You said this: "everything you know to do, you were taught".  I countered with the new-borns' nipple-sucking instinct.  So my questions to you are: 1. why do you say this and 2.  do you acknowledge that you are wrong?

Just in case you are going to weasel out again, let me state my question one more time: Enlil why did you say "everything you know how to do, you were taught"?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880396 - 06/30/15 09:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't say that.  If you haven't figured out by now, I choose my words very carefully.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880409 - 06/30/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I didn't say that.  If you haven't figured out by now, I choose my words very carefully.




I might have paraphrased it, so I went back to your original post.  Here is what you literally said, word for word: "Everything you know to do, you were taught."

Why did you say this?  And, do you admit that you are wrong for saying this?

It was from post #13 on page 10


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 09:52 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880418 - 06/30/15 09:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I said it because it's true and happened to be relevant to your point.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880429 - 06/30/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I said it because it's true and happened to be relevant to your point.



But it was clearly false, because I showed you with my argument that new born infants automatically suck on a nipple that's placed in their mouths.  Some behaviors are instinctual.  So this refutes your argument that "everything you know to do, you were taught".

Enlil why did you say that "everything you know to do, you were taught", and do you acknowledge that you are wrong for saying this?


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 09:57 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880438 - 06/30/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Automatically doing something has nothing to do with my statement.

We breathe automatically.  We don't instinctively know to breathe, however.  We just do it.

Your suckling example.  We don't know to do it...we just do it.  Later, we learn to suckle upon breasts, too, and we know to do that during sexual intercourse. 

I choose my words carefully, as I said.  If I meant that everything we do, we were taught, I'd have said that.  So far, no...I don't see where I was wrong in that.

This is, however getting pretty off-topic.  Are you going to bring this back to the point at hand?  Or are you just trying to pump your ego here?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880452 - 06/30/15 10:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Automatically doing something has nothing to do with my statements.

We breathe automatically.  We don't instinctively know to breathe however.  We just do it.




But doing something automatically IS the definition of "instinctual behavior".  If we know how to breathe automatically, it means this behavior is instinctual, and not taught.

Quote:



Your suckling example.  We don't know to do it...we just do it.  Later, we learn to suckle upon breasts, too, and we know to do that during sexual intercourse. 

I choose my words carefully, as I said.  If I meant that everything we do, we were taught, I'd have said that.




That was in fact what you did say.  You said this:  "Everything you know to do, you were taught".  You said "everything", so "everything" is what you meant.

I think you should just admit you were wrong when you said that.  It doesn't make you less of a man.  Watching you squirm and try to play semantic games like this is painful to me.


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 10:02 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880469 - 06/30/15 10:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
But doing something automatically IS the definition of "instinctual behavior".  If we know how to breathe automatically, it means this behavior is instinctual, and not taught.




Of course it is.  We don't disagree on this fact.  That is wholly irrelevant to my statement, though.  I didn't talk about what we do or what we know HOW to do (as you tried to attribute to me).  I am talking about what we know to do. 

Autonomous behavior has no knowledge associated with it.  You breathe without knowledge of your breath.  Eventually, you learn about it and gain knowledge, and you can even change it.  The autonomous part is instinctual, but the knowledge is taught.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880503 - 06/30/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

WAN said:
But doing something automatically IS the definition of "instinctual behavior".  If we know how to breathe automatically, it means this behavior is instinctual, and not taught.




Of course it is.  We don't disagree on this fact.  That is wholly irrelevant to my statement, though.  I didn't talk about what we do or what we know HOW to do (as you tried to attribute to me).  I am talking about what we know to do. 




What is the difference between "what we know to do", and "what we do/what we know how to do"?

You are just playing word games to try to save the last bit of your dignity (and reputation) here.  If you would just admit you were wrong when you said "everything you know to do, you were taught", you would actually appear more dignified.  There is no shame in admitting that one's wrong.  This is how we grow as people, after all.

Quote:


Autonomous behavior has no knowledge associated with it.  You breathe without knowledge of your breath.  Eventually, you learn about it and gain knowledge, and you can even change it.  The autonomous part is instinctual, but the knowledge is taught.




You don't need any "knowledge" to breathe.  There is also no "two parts" to breathing, as you said.  Breathing has only one part, the automatic part.  And it is automatic because this behavior known as breathing, is instinctual.  You also don't "eventually learn about breathing and gain knowledge".  This is false.  Breathing comes naturally to us and we do it automatically, because this behavior is, you guessed it, instinctual.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880520 - 06/30/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Wan, whether you believe it or not, I intentionally put the word "know" in there for a reason.  I'm not going to derail this thread any further.  If it makes you feel better to claim some kind of victory over this silly little point, go for it. 

If you have a logical argument related to race as a social construct vs biological classification, I'm all eyes.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880548 - 06/30/15 10:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Wan, whether you believe it or not, I intentionally put the word "know" in there for a reason.  I'm not going to derail this thread any further.  If it makes you feel better to claim some kind of victory over this silly little point, go for it. 


If you have a logical argument related to race as a social construct vs biological classification, I'm all eyes.





If this were a "silly little point", you would not have wasted so much time and written so many posts back and forth with me.  You just want out because you know you are losing.

Anyway, back on topic.  I think sneezingPenis is right.  Viruses and bacteria infect different races at different rates, this means that races do have some biological basis.  If races were purely social constructs, these micro-organisms would just infect us all more or less equally.


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 10:20 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 minutes, 26 seconds
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880563 - 06/30/15 10:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Why don't we stop focusing on semantic bullshit, and get back to the discussion you were losing WAN. Can you prove that race identification is one of these instincts? I am quite sure human instinct doesn't go beyond breathing and sucking titties. Do have have evidence against my argument?

My anecdotal claim regarding my half Kuwaiti brother is stronger than the void of evidence to the contrary.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,510
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880587 - 06/30/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

So, Malaria affects black people at a higher rate.  You're saying that's race-related?  You don't think the fact that large populations of black people live in places with improper sanitation has something to do with it?

Why don't we see a lot of malaria in South Central Los Angeles?  Are they less black?

Of course, as we've already argued above, this is completely beside the point.  Biological race has a meaning.  To refresh your recollection, you can read up on it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(biology)

Read carefully, and you'll notice that there is no discussion of race in humans in that entire article.  Read this, however:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)

Now, I'm not citing either as sources, since Wiki isn't the best source.  I'm just trying to help you understand what we're talking about when we say "biologically based race" and "race as a human construct".  Race has several meanings, and the scientific term is not the same as the colloquial term.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21880588 - 06/30/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Why don't we stop focusing on semantic bullshit, and get back to the discussion you were losing WAN. Can you prove that race identification is one of these instincts? I am quite sure human instinct doesn't go beyond breathing and sucking titties. Do have have evidence against my argument?




I never claimed that racial identification is instinctual.  You are setting up a straw-man.  Also, I see that you are still butt-hurt.  So much so that you have lost the ability to be impartial (if you were truly impartial then you would be able to tell that I kicked Enlil's ass so hard, that he's bowed out of our discusioon).  But maybe it's because impartiality is not in you.  I don't blame you.  Some people are born with some form of handicap and/or character flaws, they can't help it.

Quote:



My anecdotal claim regarding my half Kuwaiti brother is stronger than the void of evidence to the contrary.



So this is why you took this thread and my argument so personally.


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 10:27 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880600 - 06/30/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, Malaria affects black people at a higher rate.  You're saying that's race-related?  You don't think the fact that large populations of black people live in places with improper sanitation has something to do with it?

Why don't we see a lot of malaria in South Central Los Angeles?  Are they less black?

Of course, as we've already argued above, this is completely beside the point.  Biological race has a meaning.  To refresh your recollection, you can read up on it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(biology)

Read carefully, and you'll notice that there is no discussion of race in humans in that entire article.  Read this, however:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)

Now, I'm not citing either as sources, since Wiki isn't the best source.  I'm just trying to help you understand what we're talking about when we say "biologically based race" and "race as a human construct".  Race has several meanings, and the scientific term is not the same as the colloquial term.




Well, do you have a source other than wikipedia?  Also, what is the REAL definition of race, then?  I want to hear your own thoughts, not some more outside links, if possible.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OnlineBigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 2 minutes, 26 seconds
Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880601 - 06/30/15 10:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Wan, whether you believe it or not, I intentionally put the word "know" in there for a reason.  I'm not going to derail this thread any further.  If it makes you feel better to claim some kind of victory over this silly little point, go for it. 


If you have a logical argument related to race as a social construct vs biological classification, I'm all eyes.





If this were a "silly little point", you would not have wasted so much time and written so many posts back and forth with me.  You just want out because you know you are losing.

Anyway, back on topic.  I think sneezingPenis is right.  Viruses and bacteria infect different races at different rates, this means that races do have some biological basis.  If races were purely social constructs, these micro-organisms would just infect us all more or less equally.




Ok, now its time to put your critical thinking cap on :wink:. Bacteria and viruses don't infect different races at different rates if exposure is equal. Malaria isn't bacterial or viral, and sickle cell anemia evolved in certain populations (a small subset of those considered to be 'black') due to increased exposure rates, which skew the results.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Shooting up schools is soooo 5 years ago.
( 1 2 all )
AaronEvil 2,237 24 03/26/05 12:21 AM
by AaronEvil
* Police shoot demonstrators mm. 2,660 15 10/12/18 06:26 PM
by christopera
* Chinese police shoot demonstrators lonestar2004 826 8 12/11/05 02:18 PM
by gregorio
* Rants and Ramblings on Capitalism and Socialism
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 2,918 30 02/28/05 12:32 PM
by rogue_pixie
* The amount of effort that is required to be politically informed (Rant) RandalFlagg 496 3 09/12/05 08:13 PM
by The_Red_Crayon
* Why do certain ideologies seem to attract certain stances on issues?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
RandalFlagg 4,229 61 08/16/05 02:06 PM
by Arp
* 2nd amendment to justify shooting pigs?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
dee_N_ae 13,927 131 09/19/02 01:08 PM
by francisco
* To all republicans: a quick rant about socialism
( 1 2 3 all )
BrAiN 4,363 47 09/12/07 01:33 PM
by Jive turkey

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
8,205 topic views. 11 members, 6 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 15 queries.