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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #21879958 - 06/30/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
Quote:


Either you didn't mean to say this, or you are agreeing with me without knowing it. Maybe you meant discriminately? Because that is what they do.






Yes, I'm on my phone and often make typos. And that is not what they do. They affect people with susceptibilities, but not entire racial groups.





This is like saying just because there are non-blond-haired Caucasians, that means blondism is not a trait typically only found in the Caucasian races.

Traits don't need to be prevalent in the ENTIRE race of people in order for it to be considered that race's key trait.


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 08:11 PM)


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21879962 - 06/30/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Also, I think that SneezingPenis brought up a very good point.  If human races were truly only an illusory social construct, how come viruses infect different races at different rates?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21879973 - 06/30/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Because different races have different frequencies of certain genetic traits, in some cases.  In other cases, cultural factors can make diseases more or less prevalent.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21879998 - 06/30/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Because different races have different frequencies of certain genetic traits, in some cases.  In other cases, cultural factors can make diseases more or less prevalent.




These things, "different frequencies of certain genetic traits", sound like they are real and bio-genetically based.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21880035 - 06/30/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

'The encyclopedia is wrong', 'The scientists are liars', when I find myself making these bold claims, I generally accept that I am on the wrong side of an argument. As far as this claim that scientists are trying to avoid being labeled a racist, there is the equally assinine argument that scientists arguing for racial distinction actually do have racist motivations for making that claim. Science is science. It is not so easily subject to politics as you imply.

On the issue of syckle cell anemia. I am curious, if a small white population were isolated to a region with malaria for an extended period of time, and developed syckle cell anemia, would you consider them to be a new race? How many genetic markers must be different for a new race to be defined?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880036 - 06/30/15 08:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

No one is arguing that racial lines aren't drawn in a way that separates them by genetic traits.  That's not the point.  Those lines are still arbitrary and have no relation to biological races.  Instead, they are simply drawn based on societal values.  Racial lines could have just as easily been drawn based on eye color or blood type, and they'd be just as predictive as they are now.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880074 - 06/30/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No one is arguing that racial lines aren't drawn in a way that separates them by genetic traits.  That's not the point.  Those lines are still arbitrary and have no relation to biological races.  Instead, they are simply drawn based on societal values.  Racial lines could have just as easily been drawn based on eye color or blood type, and they'd be just as predictive as they are now.




Im sorry Enlil but I don't quite get what is meant by "(lines) being drawn based on societal values".  When I look at a person and try to determined his race, I use my eyes.  I don't consult any "societal values" or whatever, in order to tell his race.

Do you think that races are real?


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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880090 - 06/30/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Only because you were taught to distinguish races by skin color.  That's what I mean by societal values.

Biologically, race has a meaning, and no races in humans have been defined.  Socially, race has a different meaning. 

I've said this too many times in too many ways.  I'm starting to think that certain people just aren't going to get it.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880111 - 06/30/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Only because you were taught to distinguish races by skin color.  That's what I mean by societal values.

Biologically, race has a meaning, and no races in humans have been defined.  Socially, race has a different meaning. 

I've said this too many times in too many ways.  I'm starting to think that certain people just aren't going to get it.




No.  I don't go by just skin colour.  If that were the case then certain pale-skinned Japanese people would be white to me, but this is simply not the case.

When I look at someone's face with the aim of determining his race, I take many factors into account.  I look at his facial features, facial bone structure, hair and eye colour, and sometimes even his demeanor.  Nobody ever "taught" me to do any of this but I do it on my own anyway.  So I fail to grasp how it is mere "societal values" that made me do this.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880120 - 06/30/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

All of those factors were chosen arbitrarily, however, and you were taught to look for them.  That's the point.  You may not know you were taught, but you were.

I'm pretty sure you're never going to grasp any of it, frankly.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880151 - 06/30/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
All of those factors were chosen arbitrarily, however, and you were taught to look for them.  That's the point.  You may not know you were taught, but you were.

I'm pretty sure you're never going to grasp any of it, frankly.




But I swear to the stars above that nobody "taught" me to look for any of those things.  I just do it on my own.  Trust me on this.  I grew up in Asia, and there were very very few white people where I grew up.  Growing up and being educated, it was never our teachers' (and maybe family members) aim to "teach" us how to tell a white person from an Asian person.  There was no need for it.


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 08:49 PM)


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880179 - 06/30/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WAN said:
Also, I think that SneezingPenis brought up a very good point.  If human races were truly only an illusory social construct, how come viruses infect different races at different rates?




What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

Also, as far as 'blondism', you are right. Eastern europeans tend to be almost entirely brown haired and brown eyed, but white skin. Western Europeans have a large range of variance in phenotype. They're all considered 'white' based on skin color. Skin color is generally the factor behind race distinction, and that is not a significant genetic difference.

I did once meet a guy from azerbaijan who thought that I was superior to him because I have dark blonde hair and green eyes. It was weird. Those people are very racist. I didn't see any distinction. I think it was about as stupid as the arguments being made here.


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Edited by Bigbadwooof (06/30/15 08:55 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880185 - 06/30/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Everything you know to do, you were taught.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21880207 - 06/30/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

WAN said:
Also, I think that SneezingPenis brought up a very good point.  If human races were truly only an illusory social construct, how come viruses infect different races at different rates?




What the fuck does this have to do with anything?




It's relevant because having viruses that infect different races at different rates means that races have biological basis.  Viruses and bacteria do not know what a "social construct" is.

Funny how you swore at me.  You seem to take this discussion very personally and perhaps I touched a nerve.

Quote:


Also, as far as 'blondism', you are right. Eastern europeans tend to be almost entirely brown haired and brown eyed, but white skin. Western Europeans have a large range of variance in phenotype. They're all considered 'white' based on skin color. Skin color is generally the factor behind race distinction, and that is not a significant genetic difference.



Skin colour is ONE factor in determining someone's race, but NOT the only one. 

Quote:


I did once meet a guy from azerbaijan who thought that I was superior to him because I have dark blonde hair and green eyes. It was weird. Those people are very racist. I didn't see any distinction. I think it was about as stupid as the arguments being made here.




Another ad hominem (sort of).  Although you weren't truly calling ME stupid.  I just think that if you are just going to cuss people out instead of putting forth rational arguments, you should just stop embarrassing yourself and wasting people's time.


Edited by WAN (06/30/15 09:01 PM)


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880212 - 06/30/15 09:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Everything you know to do, you were taught.




Not really.  Ever notice how new-born infants automatically search for nipples with their mouths and they immediately start sucking when a nipple is placed in them?  This is instinctual.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Shins]
    #21880233 - 06/30/15 09:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Liberals think sociology is a hard science.



Another straw man.  First of all, no one said it was.  Second, and more important, biology is at the heart of this debate.

Sociology simply tries to explain why we draw racial lines, given biology appears not to support the concept.


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Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/30/15 09:14 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880234 - 06/30/15 09:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lol, you aren't actually arguing that racial classification is instinctual, are you?  That's even more ludicrous than the argument that it's biological.


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OfflineWAN
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
    #21880248 - 06/30/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, you aren't actually argue that racial classification is instinctual, are you?  That's even more ludicrous than the argument that it's biological.




I wasn't saying that the ability to make racial classification is instinctual (though it could be).  I was merely countering your claim that "everything you know to do, it is taught".  This is utterly false.

I feel that you are trying to belittle my argument and by extension, me, though.  Maybe you should try to be a bit more professional and deal with my arguments instead of doing things like this.


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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880276 - 06/30/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

This isn't a professional situation.  This is an internet forum.  I've made my arguments and cited my sources.  In return, the opposing side has offered nothing but anecdotes, fallacies, and irrelevancies. 

If you want to engage in a logical debate, you'll need to up your game significantly.  You can't expect anyone to take you seriously until you do that.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: WAN]
    #21880284 - 06/30/15 09:22 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Viruses affect different races at different rates due to different exposure rates. As far as I am aware that is the only factor involved.


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