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SneezingPenis
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A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... 1
#21843262 - 06/22/15 08:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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RANT #1 (approx. 48 HOURS AFTER SHOOTING HIT NEWS)
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So I just posted this as a response to that recent Jon Stewart clip regarding the SC shooting. I liked it so much, I figured I would put it on my own page. ----------------------------------- Before I start, let me say that I really enjoyed this clip for the most part. especially the beginning. There isn't anything I disagree with, but his commentary was the fruitless banter he was talking against. If we want to turn this into a race issue, or a violence issue, or a gun issue, that is fine... but what good is being done by using these tragedies as a launchpad for angst and grandstanding?
There is a hole in the boat and we are holding debates about the water, not the hole. The water is racism. It is gun control. It is violence in media. The hole is the severity and obsessiveness that our culture conditions into people. It is a lack of philosophy and perception--every generation is more self-absorbed than the next.
The only solution that anyone should be talking about is the overall mentality of our society/culture. There is no silver bullet either; it isn't religion, it isn't regulating inanimate objects and plants, it isn't thought policing, it isn't socioeconomic disparity. It is reversing this trend of increasingly stupid self-absorbed people that now make up an overwhelming majority of the population. When the population gets so detached from reality, you will get a greater area of standard deviation, which means the outliers are going to be greater. We will never see violence or racism eradicated, but what we can do is try to create a more stable society in which the majority is a sane and lucid group, which in turn minimizes the frequency and severity of these statistical outliers.
I honestly want to ask, "what can I do, or should I have done, as a white male, to prevent this?". Should I hold a sandwich board that says "don't be racist" or "don't shoot people"? put some bumper stickers on my car that have feel good messages? This is not an issue of casual racism. No one starts out looking both ways, then tells a racist joke, has a good chuckle then says "lets go shoot some black people". Just like no one reads a few passages from the Quran and volunteers to be fitted with a vest. People have been systematically robbed of logic and reasoning. If all it takes is some moist tits and a beach to sell you a useless product, why is it a shocker when some hick in the woods can start to sound reasonable (to some) about the plight of the white man?
If the issue is just so "right" and simple and logical, we should all be as eloquent as Jon Stewart... but we are not. We need Jon Stewart to walk us through, like a 4 year old, to a fairly simple conclusion. When people stop regurgitating rhetoric and catch phrases and buzzwords; when advertising ceases to work so easily; when people no longer need to have their hand held to reach a fairly simple line of reasoning--that is when there will be fewer people who are so deeply impressed upon by the ravings of a fanatic or fundamentalist and moved so deeply that they commit these atrocities.
If racism and violence are so obviously illogical, then doesn't that seem like the place to start? meaning that if the problem is people not being able to come to a logical conclusion about something without falsely attributing it to "bullies" or "blacks" or "girls that didn't have sex with me", then shouldn't we be trying to re-arm the populace with the tools for proper, autonomous reasoning? When I was 6 I once blamed the hamster running on it's wheel for why I lost to Soda Popinski in Mike tysons punch-out. That is mentally where we are at right now as a nation. "Lost my job? fuck the jews!", "got arrested while doing something illegal? racism", "did bad on a test? must be autistic!"... these are not logical conclusions. Our thought process collectively and individually is pathetic. Has anyone taken a broad look at what the moral of the story is in regards to the shooting reaction? It isn't that violence is wrong, or that all life is sacred...
RANT #2 (approx. 3 days after the SC shooting)
Quote:
Aaaaand the follow through is to try and ban the confederate flag.... yet another continuation of how poor people's conclusion and attribution making process are. I can understand changing road names because it is giving credence to certain historical figures, but vilifying an inanimate object because it has been associated with hate is absurd. If that is the only thing that the flag represented, then maybe there is an argument, but it would still be laughable to try and ban it. How much oppression and senseless death has the american flag flown over throughout the world? How much death and hatred has occurred in the shadow of a christian cross? attacking symbols is quite possibly the most fruitless and futile thing I can think of.
RANT #3 (YESTERDAY)
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Has anyone taken a broad look at what the moral of the story is in regards to the shooting reaction? It isn't that violence is wrong, or that all life is sacred...It has been a qualitative and quantitative ranking of various "flavors" of hate and violence, rather than rebuking all violence and all hatred. We are trying to say that Hate A, and Violence A, are worse and more despicable than Hate B, and Violence B even when they have the exact same outcomes.
I am watching all this unfold as if someone punched a baby in plain sight of 100 people. Nobody is standing up and saying, "now wait, maybe this guy had a valid reason to punch that baby... maybe that baby deserved to get punched". Nobody said that, because everyone is in total agreement that there is no situation where it is justifiable to punch a baby in the face.
But then, someone says "hey! he punched that baby because it was jewish!". Then a majority of the people become more outraged? like, they had not yet been at 100% outrage after witnessing a baby get punched in the face? As if somehow there are varying degrees of reasons for punching babies in the face.
"well, he was trying to get some sleep on an airplane and the baby kept crying" "oh, still pretty fucked up, but not as fucked up as that guy who punched the baby for being jewish" "no doubt, now THAT guy was REALLY crossing the line!"
But wait, it doesn't stop there. Someone says, "that guy was wearing a Puka shell necklace! which as we all know, is the symbol of douchebaggery. Everyone knows that anyone wearing Puka Shell necklaces in this day and age is a douchebag and probably hates babies! (because what better way to avoid making babies than wearing a Puka Shell necklace?) we should ban Puka Shell necklaces!". So now, instead of talking about minimizing and preventing the occurrences of baby punching, we are talking about banning an inanimate object that is rarely seen to this day, even in New Jersey.
Great reaction America! that'll show those anti-semitic baby punchers! They are going to have to find something new to wear, like chain wallets or some shit.
I was going to post an entirely unique rant that encompassed all of that, but i got lazy and felt that these got the point across.
tl;dr: America is becoming increasingly self-absorbed and incapable of autonomous rational thought. You are stupid for wanting to ban a flag. Don't punch babies or kill people.
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starfire_xes
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21843380 - 06/22/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can post a non-unique rant that sums this excellent piece up perfectly:
When are we going to start holding people accountable for THEIR BEHAVIOR AND ACTIONS rather than blaming an ideological position or a group of people of a certain ideology. Or blaming butthurt. Or blaming how a person doesn't feel good about themselves. Etc.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21843391 - 06/22/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am really proud of the Baby punching analogy. I think it would be a great little standup bit in a few months when the next tragedy makes everyone forget about banning a flag....
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starfire_xes
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21843429 - 06/22/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it is fairly disgusting how a tragedy isn't about the victims anymore but about how someone can gain a political advantage about it.
President Obama comes off as extremely callous and insensitive when the first thing he does is stand up and give a quick speech about 'this is terrible we need more gun control and theirs too much racism' then heads to the golf course.
What a tasteless display of low-class.
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BoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: starfire_xes] 1
#21844733 - 06/23/15 05:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: I can post a non-unique rant that sums this excellent piece up perfectly:
When are we going to start holding people accountable for THEIR BEHAVIOR AND ACTIONS rather than blaming an ideological position or a group of people of a certain ideology. Or blaming butthurt. Or blaming how a person doesn't feel good about themselves. Etc.
When multiple people exhibit the similar terrible behaviors because of the same ideology, it becomes clear that the ideology is correlated and may be causing individuals behaviors and actions. For example, radical Islamic beliefs are at the very least partially to blame for the actions of many terrorists. In this case, rasisct ideologies drove this person to murder and is certainly relevant to the discussion.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Douglas Howard
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21844849 - 06/23/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: I think it is fairly disgusting how a tragedy isn't about the victims anymore but about how someone can gain a political advantage about it.
President Obama comes off as extremely callous and insensitive when the first thing he does is stand up and give a quick speech about 'this is terrible we need more gun control and theirs too much racism' then heads to the golf course.
What a tasteless display of low-class.
I believe that it isn't about racism, but something else that is effecting these person behaviors; like alcohol for an example; it causes people to do things that they thought that they will never of had done. Like there was a white woman that had ran over a white man that was on his motor cycle kicking his foot on her car door on the freeway; she had gotten upset and chased after him and ran into him on while he was on his bike without thinking about the consequences, how she will end up. Something is causing these imbalance that needs to be look at very carefully.
Abstract While proper brain function requires the complex interaction of chemicals perpetually occupied in purposeful biochemistry, it is well established that certain toxic substances have the potential to disrupt normal brain physiology and to impair neurological homeostasis. As well as headache, cognitive dysfunction, memory disturbance, and other neurological signs and symptoms, disruption of brain function may also manifest as subtle or overt alteration in thoughts, moods, or behaviors. Over the last four decades, there has been the unprecedented development and release of a swelling repertoire of potentially toxic chemicals which have the capability to inflict brain compromise. Although the ability of xenobiotics to induce clinical illness is well established, the expanding public health problem of widespread toxicant exposure in the general population is a relatively new phenomenon that has spawned escalating concern. The emerging area of clinical care involving the assessment and management of accrued toxic substances such as heavy metals, pesticides, plasticizers and other endocrine disrupting or neurotoxic compounds has not been fully appreciated by the medical community and has yet to be incorporated into the clinical practice of many consultants or primary care practitioners. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18621076
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SneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21845282 - 06/23/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: I can post a non-unique rant that sums this excellent piece up perfectly:
When are we going to start holding people accountable for THEIR BEHAVIOR AND ACTIONS rather than blaming an ideological position or a group of people of a certain ideology. Or blaming butthurt. Or blaming how a person doesn't feel good about themselves. Etc.
When multiple people exhibit the similar terrible behaviors because of the same ideology, it becomes clear that the ideology is correlated and may be causing individuals behaviors and actions. For example, radical Islamic beliefs are at the very least partially to blame for the actions of many terrorists. In this case, rasisct ideologies drove this person to murder and is certainly relevant to the discussion.
multiple people? there was this and the sikh temple shooting...
and wtf? ideologies are the CAUSE of the violence? how about violent people are the cause of violence...
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BoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21845388 - 06/23/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SneezingPenis said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: I can post a non-unique rant that sums this excellent piece up perfectly:
When are we going to start holding people accountable for THEIR BEHAVIOR AND ACTIONS rather than blaming an ideological position or a group of people of a certain ideology. Or blaming butthurt. Or blaming how a person doesn't feel good about themselves. Etc.
When multiple people exhibit the similar terrible behaviors because of the same ideology, it becomes clear that the ideology is correlated and may be causing individuals behaviors and actions. For example, radical Islamic beliefs are at the very least partially to blame for the actions of many terrorists. In this case, rasisct ideologies drove this person to murder and is certainly relevant to the discussion.
multiple people? there was this and the sikh temple shooting...
and wtf? ideologies are the CAUSE of the violence? how about violent people are the cause of violence...
Yes, many people carry out racist actions in varying degrees of extremism.
I did not say ideology was the cause of violence, but I highly doubt there are people who are violent for the sake of being violent. There's always a reason.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21846379 - 06/23/15 03:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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people carry out violence for a million reasons, why is racism singled out? especially when it is probably a less frequent reason than money and sex.
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BoldAsLove
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#21846424 - 06/23/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I didn't single out racism as the cause of violence. In this specific case, racist ideology was the reason that this man chose to act violently. In other cases of violence, the reasons will be different.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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SneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21846610 - 06/23/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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right, but why are we treating racism as a much bigger deal than any other reason to shoot people? like it somehow makes the homicide worse?
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Enlil
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: SneezingPenis] 2
#21846778 - 06/23/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It doesn't make the victim any more dead, but it is clear that the ideology of racism is involved in a whole lot more murder than, say, the ideology of Buddhism. There's no way to stop violence without looking at the roots of it, and racism, if it isn't a cause, is certainly strongly correlated with violence. I see nothing wrong with having more dialogue and exploration of racism.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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starfire_xes
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
#21847444 - 06/23/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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He might have acted on racism, but what caused him to act out the violent behavior?
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Enlil
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21847545 - 06/23/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Piss poor upbringing and societal pressures
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Douglas Howard
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
#21847696 - 06/23/15 08:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ritalin use will permanently disqualify your son or daughter from military service in the United States. They treat it like cocaine in the screening process. If you've ever tried it for any reason, regardless of the legality of the situation, you're out. You might not think that this is an issue, but from time to time it comes up in the media. Don't confuse what your child does at the age of six with what he or she will do at three times that age. There are alternatives which work for the vast majority of the people clueful enough to try them. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?RitalinDrug
shooting Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_mass_shootings_psychiatric_drugs_antidepressants.html#
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starfire_xes
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
#21847722 - 06/23/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Piss poor upbringing and societal pressures
Exactly. And if you consider those as a type of 'mental disturbance or imbalance or disorder' i.e. psychology due to social upbringing, you must add mental illness due to organic disease.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
#21848089 - 06/23/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: It doesn't make the victim any more dead, but it is clear that the ideology of racism is involved in a whole lot more murder than, say, the ideology of Buddhism. There's no way to stop violence without looking at the roots of it, and racism, if it isn't a cause, is certainly strongly correlated with violence. I see nothing wrong with having more dialogue and exploration of racism.
Quote:
Enlil said: Piss poor upbringing and societal pressures
Well said Enlil, finally something we can agree upon!
I would like to add that I think it is perfectly reasonable to get rid of the confederate flag in public places. The war was won by the Union, and that flag represents a terrible time for America, and some of the more heinous actions of a large portion of our country.
This tragedy is the result of a fascination with guns in the South, and racist ideology. It is disgusting that right-wingers like Rick Santorum are trying to turn themselves into the victim in all of this, as if this kid committed these crimes as a form of hatred toward christianity. He clearly identified with racist idologies such as apartheid and nazism.
There may be instances in which racism is unnecessarily blamed for violence. This is not one of those instances.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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starfire_xes
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21848421 - 06/23/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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you completely missed his Enlil's point.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21848427 - 06/23/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, I didn't.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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SneezingPenis
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Re: A few of my rants regarding SC shooting... [Re: Enlil]
#21855338 - 06/25/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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what flag was flying when the irish were discriminated against in the north east? what flag was flying when the midwest and west coast put japanese in internment camps? what flag was flying at the stonewall riots in greenwich village?
Do not be so naive to think that the North was acting out of compassion for black people. The north was only mildly less racist than the south was.
Here is a quote from a letter Lincoln wrote "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union."
why is it ok to denigrate the racist by citing "piss poor upbringing" and "societal pressures", when it is that exact type of thinking in regards to other races that makes one a racist?
We are slowly making the thought of racism a crime, and regardless of how you feel about racism, you cannot genuinely advocate punishment for certain thoughts. Actions are the only thing that truly define a person. Waving a flag and saying racial epithets does not make one a racist. Subjugation, disenfranchisement, discrimination-- all actions that should be punishable offenses, regardless of the reason. If someone wants to say "i think we should kill all white people", then that is fine. People in this country should be allowed to freely say and think what they want without reprisal. (and no i do not want to get into the 1st amendment yelling fire in a movie theater bullshit discussion).
We have distorted the definition of racism to include thought. No longer is racism relegated to terrorizing black people by burning crosses in their yard, it is now saying or thinking anything bad about black people. It is perfectly acceptable to say "these stupid, dirt poor, rednecks", but severely taboo to say "these stupid, dirt poor, black people".... what is the fucking difference?
Dylan Roof's racism is the archaic, obsessive type of racism that supports subjugation/disenfranchisement/discrimination and violence... it is not the same flavor of racism (as we define it today) as locking your car door when a thug looking group of black kids get near you, or when you mutter "dumb nigger" under your breath when a black person cuts you off in traffic.
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