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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: qman] * 1
    #21855145 - 06/25/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, only Clinton, a Democrat. From Zappa's explanation you would think that it would be a Republican claiming that title.

George Bush ran up incredible debt that he didn't fucking pay for, and now Zappa wants to blame Obama for it. Let's just imagine, for a moment, how much lower Obama's spending would have been if we hadn't started frivolous wars like the Iraq war, and all of those which followed as a consequence, and moreover, hadn't had the greatest recession since the great depression.

I suppose the recession doesn't count for anything and Obama is just an asshole with a hole in his pocket. You people are unbelievable.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21855358 - 06/25/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Let's just imagine, for a moment, how much lower Obama's spending would have been if we hadn't started frivolous wars like the Iraq war, and all of those which followed as a consequence,

I can't let crazy talk like this pass uncontested. Iraq was settled by shrub (bush jr) with an agreement to pull out. Your hero obumble tore it up and put troops back. He also started a lot of other conflicts we don't need to be in. He tried to start a major war with Syria, threatened to go it alone and finally wimped out when even his own party turned against him.

>and moreover, hadn't had the greatest recession since the great depression.

He has increased the nat debt by over $8T and spent every dime of taxes we took in during that time period as well. You could have spent the money on random things picked out of a hat and the economy would be much better. He didn't start the recession but he kept it going with his incompetence and desire to throw money at the middle east.

>I suppose the recession doesn't count for anything and Obama is just an asshole with a hole in his pocket.

Yes, he is an asshole who spends money like it was someone else's. Which it is. The recession made it worse but he has done little or nothing right. I suppose the aca will be your example of him doing things right? That was super screwed up and will soon be shit canned by scotus.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21855564 - 06/25/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You can pretend that Bush got us out of the war in Iraq, but that's not the case at all. The war in Afghanistan was the only war we were justified in entering. Obama talked about war in Syria, and didn't go there, so I don't see how that's relevant.

I don't see why the ACA would ever be 'shit-canned' by SCOTUS, you'll have to elaborate. I really hope you're not trying to imply that it is unconstitutional, but if you are, I would like to hear what grounds you make this claim on.

Quote:

You could have spent the money on random things picked out of a hat and the economy would be much better.




I can't argue with that, but that goes back to the corporatism we're seeing in government. That goes back to campaign finance. I don't see how anyone could possibly argue otherwise. He gave our money to his friends, and they paid his way into the oval office. It wasn't about saving the economy.

As far as the ACA, I think that is certainly one thing that he almost did right. He should have stuck to his guns for a single payer system, as Bernie Sanders has advocated.

As I said, I am not an apologist for the Democratic party, or Obama. I am a Liberal. We may have real options this election. I think we should not take that lightly, as we haven't had options in a long time (Except maybe Ron Paul, who would have done some great things, but also fucked a lot of things up). McCaine and Romney would not have been any different than Obama.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlineqman
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21855589 - 06/25/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Yeah, only Clinton, a Democrat. From Zappa's explanation you would think that it would be a Republican claiming that title.

George Bush ran up incredible debt that he didn't fucking pay for, and now Zappa wants to blame Obama for it. Let's just imagine, for a moment, how much lower Obama's spending would have been if we hadn't started frivolous wars like the Iraq war, and all of those which followed as a consequence, and moreover, hadn't had the greatest recession since the great depression.

I suppose the recession doesn't count for anything and Obama is just an asshole with a hole in his pocket. You people are unbelievable.




That's why making correlations between R and D's and deficits/economic data is fucking retarded, Presidents can't control what they inherited by the other party.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: qman]
    #21855610 - 06/25/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>You can pretend that Bush got us out of the war in Iraq, but that's not the case at all.

I said he negotiated the pullout from Iraq and he did. I also said obumble tore up the deal and put troops back in. Do you deny any of that?

>Obama talked about war in Syria, and didn't go there, so I don't see how that's relevant.

He demanded war, said he would send in troops no matter if congress approved it or not. That would set off a constitutional crisis and after his own party turned against him he finally gave up. That is a hell of a lot more than just talking about it.

>I don't see why the ACA would ever be 'shit-canned' by SCOTUS, you'll have to elaborate. I really hope you're not trying to imply that it is unconstitutional, but if you are, I would like to hear what grounds you make this claim on.

You really should keep up with the news. They are scheduled to decide the fate of the aca soon. The reasons are kind of technical but it comes down to "its a piece of crap" in laymans terms.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21855863 - 06/25/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't have cable or dish, and I don't actively seek out information on things like the ACA, soI may be a bit uninformed on this subject, but I'll check it out. I doubt it will be done away with though. If it is, it will put millions of people out of healthcare, and will quickly be replaced.

Bush didn't pull out of Iraq. Obama didn't go into Syria. Their actions matter more than their words. Either way, I'm not here to defend Obama. I don't agree with the majority of things he has done. I find myself being backed into a corner of defending Obama, and that's not something I intend to do. McCaine and Romney would have done the exact same shit Obama did.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21856202 - 06/25/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lol obama absolutely went into syria.  He sent recruiters, spies, intelligence, trainers, weapons, supplies, mercinaries all to assis al-queda in its war against assad.  Yes obama armed, supplied, trained and recruited, and sent mercinaries to aid al-Qaeda and the american idiot people let it slide.  He also turned lybia and now yemen into a shit hole of chaos amd extremism ameerica is the joke of the world.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21856287 - 06/25/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Bush didn't pull out of Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement

"It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011"

That was the agreement obumble trashed and sent in troops instead.. What was it you said about actions? That was obumble's action

>Obama didn't go into Syria.
>Their actions matter more than their words

You have already gotten bitch slapped on that.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Shins]
    #21856327 - 06/25/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Lol obama absolutely went into syria.  He sent recruiters, spies, intelligence, trainers, weapons, supplies, mercinaries all to assis al-queda in its war against assad.  Yes obama armed, supplied, trained and recruited, and sent mercinaries to aid al-Qaeda and the american idiot people let it slide.  He also turned lybia and now yemen into a shit hole of chaos amd extremism ameerica is the joke of the world.




Libya.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21856331 - 06/25/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, I'm sorry, excuse me, we didn't start a war in Syria. I thought that was clear.
Also, Bush did not pull out of Iraq. He left that for Obama.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


Edited by Bigbadwooof (06/25/15 05:58 PM)


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21856378 - 06/25/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

>Oh, I'm sorry, excuse me, we didn't start a war in Syria.

No one said we did, that is called flogging the straw man

>Also, Bush did not pull out of Iraq. He left that for Obama.

No one said he "pulled out" another straw man. He made the deal to pull out and obumble did the opposite.

I'm afraid I will not be able to reply to you any more on the forums.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Citizen X]
    #21856686 - 06/25/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Citizen X said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
what we see it debt going up in red, and debt going down in blue:





Red is Republican?



Red is republican Presidents.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: qman] * 1
    #21856707 - 06/25/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
making correlations between R and D's and deficits/economic data is fucking retarded, Presidents can't control what they inherited by the other party.



They can't control what they inherit, but they can change the course.  As the last chart above shows, Democratic presidents reduce deficits and Republican presidents increase them.

If you're surprised by that result, it's VERY easy to explain.  Democratic presidents raise more revenue, Republicans raise less revenue.  Both spend like drunken sailors, so unless that changes, Democrats are doing the right thing.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21856732 - 06/25/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, if you want to be a child, then same to you.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Raising Taxes on the Rich--I TOLD YOU SO! [Re: Stonehenge] * 1
    #21856741 - 06/25/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I don't see why the ACA would ever be 'shit-canned' by SCOTUS, you'll have to elaborate. I really hope you're not trying to imply that it is unconstitutional, but if you are, I would like to hear what grounds you make this claim on.



You really should keep up with the news. They are scheduled to decide the fate of the aca soon. The reasons are kind of technical but it comes down to "its a piece of crap" in laymans terms.



If you're correct about that, then "it's not a piece of crap" in laymans terms:  Supreme Court saves Obamacare


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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