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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
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The police experiment: will they or won't they
#21840263 - 06/22/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Paint yourself head to toe black.
Strip off naked so you couldn't possibly have a weapon.
Be a demon out on the streets and get your buddy to tape when the police arrive.
Resist arrest and see what happens.
If you live, you can contribute to the continued tainting of whatever reputation the police still have.
Discuss intelligently.
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zZZz
jesus


Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: LobsterSauce]
#21840312 - 06/22/15 01:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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police are people too. lets not put them on a pedestal just yet, atleast not without a dance first.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: zZZz]
#21840325 - 06/22/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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there have two people who've already done this, and experienced massive bigotry and degrading of their self-worth, and also were attacked, because they were painted black.
the question is really though, how could anyone not tell the person was fucking PAINTED.
stupid all around.
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: akira_akuma]
#21840352 - 06/22/15 01:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If they were painted with a bit of care by someone who knows their stuff...
Were they attacked by black people because they were found out or because they were black people doing bad things?
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FreeTheSoul
The wonderer.
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 2,297
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: LobsterSauce] 1
#21840365 - 06/22/15 01:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why does everyone think racism only goes one way?
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: LobsterSauce]
#21840372 - 06/22/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LobsterSauce said: If they were painted with a bit of care by someone who knows their stuff...
Were they attacked by black people because they were found out or because they were black people doing bad things?
nah, it was back in the day, people didn't need a reason back then other than that they were black, hence must be accosted at all times for ever being in this country... you know, against their own will.
lol, black people can act awry over themselves, however. it's ingenious conditioning.
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abltsandwich
JFK = Jelly Donut




Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 11,537
Loc: Dildoville
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: FreeTheSoul] 1
#21840442 - 06/22/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not everyone thinks that. Racism can go many ways.
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FreeTheSoul
The wonderer.
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 2,297
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: abltsandwich]
#21840445 - 06/22/15 02:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yea I chose the wrong words, I do that way to often. I should have said why do some people think racism only goes one way.
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my3rdeye



Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 4,354
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: FreeTheSoul] 2
#21840505 - 06/22/15 03:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
FreeTheSoul said: Why does everyone think racism only goes one way?
Some black guy calling you a honky is totally the same thing as getting pulled over because you are black, refused housing because you are black, cab drivers passing you etc. You know all the things in life you take for granted that are so easy? But all you poor white victims already know that. Please tell me how how affirmative action cost you your dream job. I love hearing your sad sad song.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 49 minutes, 42 seconds
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: my3rdeye] 2
#21841417 - 06/22/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
FreeTheSoul said: Why does everyone think racism only goes one way?
Some black guy calling you a honky is totally the same thing as getting pulled over because you are black, refused housing because you are black, cab drivers passing you etc. You know all the things in life you take for granted that are so easy? But all you poor white victims already know that. Please tell me how how affirmative action cost you your dream job. I love hearing your sad sad song.
You sound like Obama organizing a pity parade, only whites can racist in the US, we get it!! Thank you for displaying and promoting PC hypocrisy, it really makes life so much better for minorities.
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FlusH
Random person on Internet


Registered: 10/23/01
Posts: 2,910
Loc: Bizzaro World
Last seen: 16 days, 20 hours
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: my3rdeye]
#21841620 - 06/22/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
FreeTheSoul said: Why does everyone think racism only goes one way?
Some black guy calling you a honky is totally the same thing as getting pulled over because you are black, refused housing because you are black, cab drivers passing you etc. You know all the things in life you take for granted that are so easy? But all you poor white victims already know that. Please tell me how how affirmative action cost you your dream job. I love hearing your sad sad song.
Hey, that sounds like Canada! Where any Native can call a white person whatever the hell they want, but when a white person says anything that could be perceived in the slightest way as racist, Hell, even if the white person is walking by a group of natives, its racist!!
"The problem isn't white but it sure isn't black" - Frank Zappa
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 33 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: FlusH]
#21841712 - 06/22/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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White victimhood would just be pathetic if it didn't lead to people like Dylan Roof shooting up churches.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: my3rdeye] 1
#21845248 - 06/23/15 09:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
FreeTheSoul said: Why does everyone think racism only goes one way?
Some black guy calling you a honky is totally the same thing as getting pulled over because you are black, refused housing because you are black, cab drivers passing you etc. You know all the things in life you take for granted that are so easy? But all you poor white victims already know that. Please tell me how how affirmative action cost you your dream job. I love hearing your sad sad song.
and you somehow think that people dont get pulled over because they're white
you keep lying to yourself and perpetuating the racism like a good liberal sheep
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Supachopped719
Stranger


Registered: 10/16/13
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21845326 - 06/23/15 09:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
FreeTheSoul said: Why does everyone think racism only goes one way?
Some black guy calling you a honky is totally the same thing as getting pulled over because you are black, refused housing because you are black, cab drivers passing you etc. You know all the things in life you take for granted that are so easy? But all you poor white victims already know that. Please tell me how how affirmative action cost you your dream job. I love hearing your sad sad song.
and you somehow think that people dont get pulled over because they're white
you keep lying to yourself and perpetuating the racism like a good liberal sheep
If you're white then I suggest you walk through The Crest in Vallejo california, or The Acorn in oakland, or Wisteria lane in east palo alto. If you come back with your wallet and cell phone you can tell me that the worst a white person gets is called a honkey.
-------------------- Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Supachopped719]
#21845788 - 06/23/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stupid.
Resisting can still get you shot. What if a move is made for the officers firearm? Taser? Baton? Cuffs?
This thread sucks unless my sarcasm meter didn't detect.
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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Shining Cosmos
Space Nomad


Registered: 06/18/13
Posts: 1,808
Loc: PHX
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Herbologist]
#21845825 - 06/23/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Like Downey jr in tropic thunder
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Shroomopotamus
Happy Mushrooming



Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 18,757
Loc: Funkotron
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Shining Cosmos] 1
#21846275 - 06/23/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I went black face back in highschool once cuz I got kicked out of the school & wasn't allowed on their property for a year & I wanted to go to a badketball game there Brought in grape soda, had gloves to cover my hands
Got kicked out like half way through the game & the whole place was yelling shroomopotamus shroomopotamus shroomopotamus
When I got back home I forgot I was blacked out & my mom was like wtf
-------------------- * Live by the mushroom, die by the mushroom
    This is a trap! A trap! You are all busted! Busted! You fools!
If a time comes where I fail to appear I've been abducted and I will miss you all Please smile and pet puppies as often as possible Be happy Be nice (<3);}
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21846667 - 06/23/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
you keep lying to yourself and perpetuating the racism like a good liberal sheep
and you're extremely liberal in your assessing rocks, vines, trees, cooks, bards, sheep, and purple monkey dishwasher as "race".
keep lying to yourself about naming random things as "a race". frankly, we need a new race of mods around here already.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#21846842 - 06/23/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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if pris honestly believes that whites don't get more of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a threat or having drugs or breaking the law, then hes literally retarded.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#21849672 - 06/24/15 10:02 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not like its the white persons fault.
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Bill_Oreilly] 1
#21849846 - 06/24/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: if pris honestly believes that whites don't get more of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a threat or having drugs or breaking the law, then hes literally retarded.
Do you know who gets the benefit of the doubt? Other demographic groups that don't break the law as often!!!
Do senior citizens, children under 10, upper class citizens, and females get the benefit of the doubt? Yes they do, and it's for very good reason, it's called statistical commonsense.
Edited by qman (06/24/15 12:16 PM)
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: qman]
#21850061 - 06/24/15 11:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: if pris honestly believes that whites don't get more of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a threat or having drugs or breaking the law, then hes literally retarded.
Do you know who is gets the benefit of the doubt? Other demographic groups that don't break the law as often!!!
Do senior citizens, children under 10, upper class citizens, and females get the benefit of the doubt? Yes they do, and it's for very good reason, it's called statistical commonsense.
you have some damn rose glasses on, do you think just perhaps that same statistical commonsense could actually be ignorance perpetuating that same statistics you hold so near and dear?
or is that a chicken before the egg argument to you?
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: if pris honestly believes that whites don't get more of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a threat or having drugs or breaking the law, then hes literally retarded.
Do you know who is gets the benefit of the doubt? Other demographic groups that don't break the law as often!!!
Do senior citizens, children under 10, upper class citizens, and females get the benefit of the doubt? Yes they do, and it's for very good reason, it's called statistical commonsense.
you have some damn rose glasses on, do you think just perhaps that same statistical commonsense could actually be ignorance perpetuating that same statistics you hold so near and dear?
or is that a chicken before the egg argument to you?
stats are stats. dont need rose glasses for that.
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 49 minutes, 42 seconds
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: if pris honestly believes that whites don't get more of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a threat or having drugs or breaking the law, then hes literally retarded.
Do you know who is gets the benefit of the doubt? Other demographic groups that don't break the law as often!!!
Do senior citizens, children under 10, upper class citizens, and females get the benefit of the doubt? Yes they do, and it's for very good reason, it's called statistical commonsense.
you have some damn rose glasses on, do you think just perhaps that same statistical commonsense could actually be ignorance perpetuating that same statistics you hold so near and dear?
or is that a chicken before the egg argument to you?
Really, how does law enforcement perpetuate a demographic that commits high levels of robbery, rape, murder, sexual assault, physical assault? All they do it RESPOND to them, they don't force criminals with real victims into the criminal act.
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
Posts: 7,471
Loc: Casa Bonita
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: qman]
#21850188 - 06/24/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said: if pris honestly believes that whites don't get more of the benefit of the doubt when it comes to not being a threat or having drugs or breaking the law, then hes literally retarded.
Do you know who is gets the benefit of the doubt? Other demographic groups that don't break the law as often!!!
Do senior citizens, children under 10, upper class citizens, and females get the benefit of the doubt? Yes they do, and it's for very good reason, it's called statistical commonsense.
you have some damn rose glasses on, do you think just perhaps that same statistical commonsense could actually be ignorance perpetuating that same statistics you hold so near and dear?
or is that a chicken before the egg argument to you?
Really, how does law enforcement perpetuate a demographic that commits high levels of robbery, rape, murder, sexual assault, physical assault? All they do it RESPOND to them, they don't force criminals with real victims into the criminal act. 
yes, they do!! nana-nana boo boo!!
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: Herbologist]
#21850281 - 06/24/15 12:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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yea i can't really even argue with that... i mean really man... look at the drug usage rates across demographics then look at who is in prison for those crimes.
but i guess them boys in blue are like just nearly perfect, just doing their job.
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
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coke sentencing vs crack, but hey THAT doesn't count bros
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 49 minutes, 42 seconds
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: yea i can't really even argue with that... i mean really man... look at the drug usage rates across demographics then look at who is in prison for those crimes.
but i guess them boys in blue are like just nearly perfect, just doing their job.
Lets be honest, who does the vast majority of drug dealing on the streets/bars? Minorities without a doubt, thus the higher arrest and conviction rates.
I always bought my drugs from whites inside homes/random meeting places, no cops around.
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: qman]
#21850864 - 06/24/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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q man, are you white? do you live in a metropolitan area?
i am white, and grew up in a very rural area and there was tons of drugs there, bought drugs from people in cars, people in the woods, people at school, anywhere really... so i guess i could buy your argument but i have always known just as many white people that were meth or coke freaks as i have blacks or other people with darker skin.
did you not acknowledge my point about sentencing discrepancies simply because it proves my point of systematic racism in the police or because you felt it was not a relevant point of your statistical logic?
i will say when i have legal trouble 10 years ago the only reason i got drug court was #1 my mom loaned me money for a lawyer, and #2 i was white, dressed and spoke well. they made an exception in my case, i highly doubt i would have that same exception if i didn't have the money for a lawyer or was of darker skin.
just all opinions we make off our own experiences.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 49 minutes, 42 seconds
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: q man, are you white? do you live in a metropolitan area?
i am white, and grew up in a very rural area and there was tons of drugs there, bought drugs from people in cars, people in the woods, people at school, anywhere really... so i guess i could buy your argument but i have always known just as many white people that were meth or coke freaks as i have blacks or other people with darker skin.
did you not acknowledge my point about sentencing discrepancies simply because it proves my point of systematic racism in the police or because you felt it was not a relevant point of your statistical logic?
i will say when i have legal trouble 10 years ago the only reason i got drug court was #1 my mom loaned me money for a lawyer, and #2 i was white, dressed and spoke well. they made an exception in my case, i highly doubt i would have that same exception if i didn't have the money for a lawyer or was of darker skin.
just all opinions we make off our own experiences.
Yeah I'm white, and I have lived in both urban and metropolitan areas. Most whites that aren't hardcore drug users (stoners) don't buy from strangers, they only buy from associates in my experience.
"sentencing disparities (coke vs crack)"
What about all the deadheads locked up for 20 years for LSD/mushrooms/ RC's? They are all white. In the 80's it was very common for inner city blacks and their leadership to be big proponents for tough crack sentencing laws, it's only very recently they have acknowledge their miscalculation.
"didn't have the money for a lawyer or was of darker skin"
It doesn't take a genius to realize money is the key for leniency in the justice system, it's about money not race. You're only speculating that being white was beneficial in your court case, calling someone a racist based on speculation is immoral.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 33 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: qman]
#21851269 - 06/24/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: yea i can't really even argue with that... i mean really man... look at the drug usage rates across demographics then look at who is in prison for those crimes.
but i guess them boys in blue are like just nearly perfect, just doing their job.
Lets be honest, who does the vast majority of drug dealing on the streets/bars? Minorities without a doubt, thus the higher arrest and conviction rates.
I always bought my drugs from whites inside homes/random meeting places, no cops around.
Gotta love that white privilege - the freedom to make drug deals without cops around.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 33 minutes, 15 seconds
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: koods]
#21851288 - 06/24/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Racism is absolutely ingrained into the justice system.
Qman, be honest, if you were on a jury, you know you would be more skeptical of a black defendant than a white one.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: koods]
#21851304 - 06/24/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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i shouldn't have come in here but i did. and now my head hurts lol
qman : the dead heads being white really is an orange to an apple situation unless there are black acid heads that did the same thing but only had a fraction of the sentence, see how that differs from crack vs coke?
and how does some black people being proponents for the strict sentencing have anything to do with the fact that it is racist. there are gay republicans that vote against gay rights all the time, does that justify it?
i agree money is the key in our society and justice system, but i would also argue that race and racist ignorant perceptions about race do as well.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: koods]
#21851408 - 06/24/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Racism is absolutely ingrained into the justice system.
Qman, be honest, if you were on a jury, you know you would be more skeptical of a black defendant than a white one.
Like most people I believe I wouldn't bring any biases into my decision making on a jury, realistically that might be impossible to do for any person, the key is to acknowledge that everyone has some biases whatever they might be.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: i shouldn't have come in here but i did. and now my head hurts lol
qman : the dead heads being white really is an orange to an apple situation unless there are black acid heads that did the same thing but only had a fraction of the sentence, see how that differs from crack vs coke?
and how does some black people being proponents for the strict sentencing have anything to do with the fact that it is racist. there are gay republicans that vote against gay rights all the time, does that justify it?
i agree money is the key in our society and justice system, but i would also argue that race and racist ignorant perceptions about race do as well.
Well, most people sentenced for LSD are white, while most people sentenced for crack are black, this is a fair comparison in my opinion. Are sentencing laws for LSD mild compared to crack? Not at all, maybe even harsher. Was the disparity between coke and crack sentencing laws a conspiracy to get more black in prison from the very beginning? Black leadership didn't think so.
Are you suggesting that the black leadership that advocated tough laws on crack were racist? They thought at the time they were trying to save their own communities, they were just wrong on their original position, not racist towards their own people.
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ReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween



Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: qman]
#21851820 - 06/24/15 06:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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so you don't understand why coke vs crack, the same drug is any different then crack vs LSD... i wish i could believe you are trolling but sadly i doubt it because you exhibit this illogical thought process on a regular basis.
it is like playing whack a mole but with more face palming.
--------------------
Edited by ReposadoXochipilli (06/24/15 06:19 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 49 minutes, 42 seconds
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Quote:
ReposadoXochipilli said: so you don't understand why coke vs crack, the same drug is any different then crack vs LSD... i wish i could believe you are trolling but sadly i doubt it because you exhibit this illogical thought process on a regular basis.
it is like playing whack a mole but with more face palming.
Since you believe that coke and crack are the same exact thing (up for debate), why do you think the disparity exists? And who was motivated to do it?
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
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Re: The police experiment: will they or won't they [Re: qman]
#21860979 - 06/26/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am going to do this tomorrow.
I hope they don't beat me black and blue.
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