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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Low sugar /MEA % agar to induce cubensis pins?
#21838404 - 06/21/15 06:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Has anybody experienced more pinning on low % sugar agar?
This is an old Sandoz patent claiming 0.2-0.7% MEA was optimal
Quote:
OBTAINING PSILOCYBIN AND PSILOCIN FROM FUNGAL MATERIAL
United States Patent Office 3,183,172
Patented May 11, 1965
Roger Heim, Paris, France, Albert Hofmann, Botimingen, Basel-Land, Arthur Brack, Riehen, near Basel, and Hans Kobel, Basel, Switzerland, and Roger Cailleux, Pavillons-sous-Bois, France, assignors to Sandoz Ltd., Basel, Switzerland, a Swiss firm...
In developing an alternative process which is better adapted for large scale operation, it was found quite unexpectedly that, grown in vitro on substrates rich in nutritive material, the fungi produce active mycelium and sclerotia in large quantities and only a very small number of fruit bodies; on substrates poor in nutrients, however, the familiar fruit bodies are produced. On an agar medium containing 1.5% by weight of agar, a concentration of 0.2 to 0.7% by weight of dry substance of malt extract is the optimum for the formation of fruit bodies, whereas concentrations of 4 to 10% by weight, depending upon the particular fungal species employed, are optimal for the formation of mycelium and sclerotia.
Often when you see pins forming on agar it is from myc growing up the sides of jars containing agar.

 That agar was probably 4% MEA, I cannot remember certainly not lower than 2%. When grown on petris people have probably used the plate before it reached the sides.
I expect the theory behind it is that its more like a casing, the myc has grown into a non nutritious region and fruits since it has sensed the lack of nutrition and so fruits to ensure survival by producing fruits and spores.
This old thread was about dog food agar being good for pins
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11717683
Quote:
Pajarito said: Many years ago I experimented with Dog Food Agar (DFA) after obtaining Steven Pollock's seminal work, Magic Mushroom Cultivation. DFA was a big change from the standard MEA and PDA that I was familiar with, and I found that cubensis would rapidly fruit from multi-spore inoculation on DFA and was a quick and reliable way to establish good fruiting strains by cloning the best fruits from the agar dishes.
DFA recipes also have low amounts of MEA added, or none at all.
Quote:
Dr. Pollock's Modified Agar 10 grams dried dog food (ground to flour) 10 grams amaranth flour 2 grams dextrose or malt extract 9 grams agar agar 500 ml potable or distilled water
That is 0.4% MEA
In Stamets GGMM DFA is listed as 20g agar, 20g dog food and 1L water, no added sugars at all.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Low sugar /MEA % agar to induce cubensis pins? [Re: blackout]
#21838456 - 06/21/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I get pins on agar with more starch. Low sugar isn't really a factor far as I have seen. Thicker poured agar and higher starch seems to help. I know leaf seen a lot of pins on agar with DFA. Full colonization is however the biggest factor. Rarely have I ever seen pins on a plate that wasn't fully colonized.
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mush madness
absorbing everything



Registered: 05/22/15
Posts: 252
Loc: Brazil
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Re: Low sugar /MEA % agar to induce cubensis pins? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21838560 - 06/21/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have had pins on PDA after 100%
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: Low sugar /MEA % agar to induce cubensis pins? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21838640 - 06/21/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Low sugar isn't really a factor far as I have seen.
What is the lowest % MEA you have used?
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:Full colonization is however the biggest factor.
When fully colonised I would expect the sugar levels to have dropped significantly.
If it is the full colonisation and not low sugar influencing it, then maybe if people are looking for invitro pins they should use smaller plates, so it reaches full colonisation quicker.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Low sugar /MEA % agar to induce cubensis pins? [Re: blackout]
#21838897 - 06/21/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I went about 1% before but growth was pretty weak for my taste. Only did it once so perhaps different genetics might do better.
My no pour pp5 plates are pretty small and I get lots of pins in em. Its almost the only way I clone these days.
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Low sugar /MEA % agar to induce cubensis pins? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21838966 - 06/21/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I also don't get more pins on lower starch agar media.
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