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OfflineDeezy P
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Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers
    #21836393 - 06/21/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So I tried my first attempt at spawning to bulk (more info on that here). It's been nearly 2 1/2 weeks, but only 3 qt sized jars are showing strong, steady growth. The other 9, nothing.

First off, in the event of only having a few jars cultivate out of a batch, what are your options for those? Can you use them for a G2G transfer with fresh substrate in the failed jars? Or do you just keep them aside and use them once you have enough jars cultivated?

If G2G is an option, can you use a different substrate in the jars you're transfering to than what's in the master jar? For example, can you have a WBS master jar and transfer to rye jars? Reason being, I used WBS, and I think the reason for my partial-failure is the moisture content, as is a lot of other beginners.. Are other substrates like rye more fail-safe?

I never even knew G2G transfers or liquid culture existed until I started this grow (lol), but the more I read they definitely seem appealing. I've always used multispore syringes :shrug:

Thanks ahead of time for your advise!


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Invisiblearpeggiator
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P]
    #21836515 - 06/21/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

1. I would wait until the jar you intend to use as a master is 100% colonized and shake it to see if the jar recover in 24-48 hours and use it to inoculate newly created grain jars.

I would keep the 9 jars until you reach the three week mark and toss them if they have no growth.

jars can be g2g'd to the substrate of your choice (rye to wbs, wbs to rye, etc.)

What is the temperature of the room the jars are in?


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OfflineDeezy P
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: arpeggiator]
    #21836559 - 06/21/15 11:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome man, thanks.

The room I'm keeping them in doesn't get below 75F or above 80F, and they're even on a shelf high in my closet (with the doors open). However, for the first two days after inoculation with a multispore syringe, I made a mistake and had them sealed in a tub. That tub was opened at least once a day, but would that have made an impact on them?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P]
    #21836577 - 06/21/15 11:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You'd have to REALLy fuck up grain prep in order for the spores to not germinate.
So that's not likely the cause of your problem.

Did you shake the syringe well before inoc'ing? were the spores old as in several yrs old?

keeping jars in tubs are fine. and when nothing grew there's nothing in there to exhale gases right!

oh and yeah g2g'ing to a different kind of GRAIN (substrate is something else, coco coir, verm, manure, straw etc) is perfectly fine!


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P]
    #21836580 - 06/21/15 11:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not going to say I haven't used MS syringe-inoculated jars for G2G, but it wasn't a good practice and I don't recommend it.  It can work, but it has a higher likelihood of failure because you can get nasty runaway bacterial problems.  Some people I know and respect on here  will only do one or two generations of G2G even when they know they have a clean inoculant, because it's kind of difficult to get something truly sterile.  Sterile enough for our purposes is easy enough, but there will always be bacteria with a 90min-120min PC run.

Yes, any grain can be inoculated with any other grain.  The important thing is that you have healthy points of inoculation, and you can have that with any type of grain.  Some are more likely to be healthy than others, depending on their respective sterilities.  That in turn depends on the type of grain, proper hydration, PC time and pressure, number of runs and a few other variables.

Basically, you're going to keep wondering until you have a couple of jars that look so goddamn good you'll say, "Damn!  That's what good spawn is."  From there you'll gain a sense of what you can get away with and what you can't.  We can help with that somewhat--we're never critical of anyone who, instead of looking at thousands of pictures of rye or oat spawn, just slaps a picture on the boards and says, "Tell me if this is fucked."

I love G2G.  I don't love LC, but I like it, and I think that when done right it can be incredibly useful, but it is somewhat difficult to do it right and when it fails it fails hard.

As far as fail-safe goes, in my opinion mixed grains are tougher and riskier than single grains.  I've done my fair share of WBS--80 pounds of it or so--before switching to single grains.  After I tried single grains I immediately went and bought like 350 pounds of oats from an organic farmer in one go.  There are a few benefits, and they mostly center around there being only one kind of grain.  With WBS, by the time the corn and wheat are hydrated the millet is bursting. You can alleviate this by slowly hydrating with a long soak, but that's a huge pain in the ass when you can just boil a single grain, strain it, throw it in a jar and sterilize.  No planning necessary--you only need a few hours.  Then when you're sterilizing, with WBS, by the time the bigger kernels are sterilized to the standard I like, the millet is a gross fucking paste which makes it really tough to shake to disperse inoculant after it reaches 30% and then again when you're breaking it up to spawn. So if you want easy and safe, go to a feed and seed store and get yourself some rye berries or whole oats.  You'll have to ask for them at the checkout counter, and you can expect to part with about 14-20$ for a 50-pound bag of a much superior spawn.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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OfflineDeezy P
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Psilicon]
    #21836669 - 06/21/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Shit griegen, thanks for the response. Lots of good info there.

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I'm not going to say I haven't used MS syringe-inoculated jars for G2G, but it wasn't a good practice and I don't recommend it.  It can work, but it has a higher likelihood of failure because you can get nasty runaway bacterial problems.



Assuming that I do only get a few jars out of this batch, I think I would take my chances and try this method. Are there any precautions besides the usual glove box, gloves, alcohol ect that I should take to minimize chances of contamination?

Quote:

spacechildo said:
Did you shake the syringe well before inoc'ing? were the spores old as in several yrs old?



I shook the shit out of both. The age of the spores is a question for Ralph.

Quote:

spacechildo said:
oh and yeah g2g'ing to a different kind of GRAIN (substrate is something else, coco coir, verm, manure, straw etc) is perfectly fine!



Oops :lol: Thanks for saving me from exposing myself as a newbie in the future


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P] * 1
    #21836696 - 06/21/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deezy P said:
Shit griegen, thanks for the response. Lots of good info there.

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I'm not going to say I haven't used MS syringe-inoculated jars for G2G, but it wasn't a good practice and I don't recommend it.  It can work, but it has a higher likelihood of failure because you can get nasty runaway bacterial problems.



Assuming that I do only get a few jars out of this batch, I think I would take my chances and try this method. Are there any precautions besides the usual glove box, gloves, alcohol ect that I should take to minimize chances of contamination?




Yeah.  You should use a still-air box instead of a glove box.  A proper glove box with HEPA-filtered intake and output creating laminar flow inside of it is great, but it's bulky, expensive and hard to create at home.  Most of the ghetto Sterilite glove boxes that were made in the earlier eras on this site were worthless--they'd cause the air (and therefore spores) to whoosh around all over the inside of the box, because of course they weren't sterile on the inside.  What we use now is a kind of glovebox without gloves, a box with two arm holes that creates still air that doesn't move and which allows the contaminant spores to remain trapped on the bottom of the box.  When you're using it, make sure you don't slam your hand or the jar into the lid of the box.  Doing that will push up on the lid, which increases the internal volume of the box.  It sucks air in exactly like a lung does, and that pushes dirty spore air all over your work and it also stirs up everything that was on the bottom of your box.  So yeah, don't do that.  Don't stick your finger in your grains, don't tap your open jar mouths together when you're trying to get grain into the recipient jars, and make sure you have everything in place before you start working.  You'll be just fine.  :grin:


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P]
    #21836701 - 06/21/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There's nothing wrong at all with doing a G2G from a MS inoculated jar. I've done it a million times.


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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineDeezy P
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #21914145 - 07/08/15 09:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Not to revive an old post, but just wanted to follow up on the situation I had. After waiting over 2 weeks after inoculation, 2 jars started showing small growth. It had taken long enough though that I figured they would not make it. They continued to grow sloooowly, and around 3 weeks 2 additional jars started showing growth on top. One of those stalled after about 3 days, but the other is at about 10% colinization on top right now.
The first two to show growth I was finally able to shake within the last 4 days (about 2 days apart) and have since then EXPLODED.

About 4 weeks in:




5 weeks in (today):




I'm not certain what the reason for their delayed and extremely slow growth was, but I was able to get 3 successful jars out of my original 12 that I prepared. I plan to use the strongest for a G2G transfer to my other 9 jars with freshly prepared whole oats (fuck WBS).
If this is useful for nothing else, I hope it will at least show a fellow newbie the importance of patience in this hobby :lol:


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Offlineshroomyaxn
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P]
    #21914692 - 07/08/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deezy P said:
About 4 weeks in:





Nice. Looks good so far. I'd shake that soon. From that pciture it looks about 30%. 

In the future, try getting your hands on some rye berries.  WBS varies in consistency and size.  I have found it easier to prep rye berries (from a variety of vendors) time and time again. Give it a shot.


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OfflineDeezy P
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: shroomyaxn]
    #21915720 - 07/08/15 04:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomyaxn said:
Quote:

Deezy P said:
About 4 weeks in:





Nice. Looks good so far. I'd shake that soon. From that pciture it looks about 30%. 

In the future, try getting your hands on some rye berries.  WBS varies in consistency and size.  I have found it easier to prep rye berries (from a variety of vendors) time and time again. Give it a shot.




The first picture at 5 weeks is actually that same jar 2 days after I shook it. I'm expecting in the next few days for it to be 100%.
As for the WBS, after having this problem I found that it may be wise to switch to a better grain. I now have some whole oat jars prepared ready for a G2G :grin:


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Offlineshroomyaxn
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Re: Advise for a semi-successful WBS spawn and G2G transfers [Re: Deezy P]
    #21918620 - 07/09/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Deezy P said:
The first picture at 5 weeks is actually that same jar 2 days after I shook it. I'm expecting in the next few days for it to be 100%.
As for the WBS, after having this problem I found that it may be wise to switch to a better grain. I now have some whole oat jars prepared ready for a G2G :grin:



Oh okay. I see now.  How did the whole oats preparation go for you?  What did you do? 
I have used rye for the past year, but it has been difficult to find rye berries for a good price per lb where i live.  I may switch to whole oats.


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