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Offlinenuds
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What would you differently?
    #21835463 - 06/21/15 04:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a young adult not far from being thrown head first into 'real life', as you would call it.

I figure that the best way for me to ensure I don't make bad financial decisions and to set myself up for solid financial security is by asking those older than me and from all walks of life "what would you do differently?".

I know life is to be enjoyed, and I don't want to waste my life away, but I also realize how necessary money is and how much easier it makes life, so fire away and share the things you regret doing and the decisions you're happy you made, and everything in between.


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OfflinemndfreezeMDiscordReddit
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds] * 1
    #21835507 - 06/21/15 05:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

START SAVING IMMEDIATELY


I cannot say this enough


I was told this when I first moved out and got a job and all that.  Did I listen. Noooooooooooo because there was always some shiny toy or new this or hell even just bills because I didnt have a high paying job,.


Now I'm struggling much harder to make sure later in life I dont die early from poverty and starvation.

You should at all times have a savings account that is 6 months worth of living expenses.  So if the worst happens you can survive.  I'm still living paycheck to paycheck and I just hit 37.  It was having a small savings that saved me in 2000 when the IT market fell out and I was out of work for a year. Now I have no security.  If you start right away and always put money away, budget like the money is untouchable so you never spend it. You will very very very thankful later on when you really really do need it.

Also, cars are bad investiments, they do nothing but cost money, remember this when figuring out what you need vs what you want vs what you can afford

Houses in general are good investments.  Many programs to help young people buy one, they gain value over time (usually) and helps put money that you would waste to rent into something of actual value.

Be very very very careful with credit cards.  There are ways to use them smart and ways to dig yourself a hole and more ways to fill the hole in with you buried in it still.  You want to have good credit but dont want to have a ton of credit debt.  I'd say avoid them all together but the realistic thing is that you just need credit to make life easier.  *IF* you are responsible enough to not fuck yourself, get a small credit card and buy like 40 bucks on it, like a pack of socks and underwear or a tshirt or three, whatever.  DONT pay it all off immediately.  You want to have some revolving debt as thats what they base your credit worthiness on.  They dont make money if you pay everything off righht away.  So basically you always make way more then the minimum payment, but make sure you leave a little on the card from bill to bill so they get a tiny amount of interest money.  After doing that for 6 months to a year you can have some bad ass credit and then start paying all your stuff off right away, and have good credit to get better rates on a car loan, or house mortgage, etc etc etc

Thats all I got.  I only meant to type like 2 sentences, so hope this TL;DR mess makes sense.


--------------------
Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus!

quote]Urb said:
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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21835571 - 06/21/15 06:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nuds said:
I'm a young adult not far from being thrown head first into 'real life', as you would call it.

I figure that the best way for me to ensure I don't make bad financial decisions and to set myself up for solid financial security is by asking those older than me and from all walks of life "what would you do differently?".

I know life is to be enjoyed, and I don't want to waste my life away, but I also realize how necessary money is and how much easier it makes life, so fire away and share the things you regret doing and the decisions you're happy you made, and everything in between.




1.  Pay your credit card balances off every month!  Never let the balance accumulate interest.  The banks call people who pay their balances off "deadbeats".  That alone should make you want to do it.

2.  To accumulate a debt to go to college has to be the new "stupid".  Don't do it.

3.  In fact, skip college and get a real job out of high school.  A real job is one you can do on your own without having to rely on someone else.  Buy a lawn mower and a pruner and start a landscaping business. 

4.  One of the only real money making opportunities anymore is rental real estate, but "they" (the central bankers) have screwed up that one too.  Low interest rates, high house prices, and unattractive capitalization rates mean it's not a good time to buy and rent a house.  After the next big dump of house prices, it will be time to buy.  Maybe 2020.  But really unless you are a masochist, I'd avoid buying and renting houses.

5.  On the other hand, buying a house to live in as you fix it up and live there 2 or more years out of 5 to avoid capital gains taxes makes perfect sense.  Buy low!  Sell high!

6.  Learn to grow lettuce and tomatoes, and save money that way.  Sell your excess at the farmers market.

7.  Avoid debt.

8.  Avoid debt.

9.  Avoid debt.

10. Pay off any debt you didn't avoid ASAP.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinenuds
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: mndfreeze]
    #21835579 - 06/21/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome advice! Exactly the kind of reply I was looking for :thumbup:

Saving is definitely a top priority, I want to use the money I save to make more money, rather than just having it sit in a second bank account waiting for the day that I need to use it.

Is it possible to be paying off a house and be saving at the same time? Would I be shooting myself in the foot by purchasing a house in my early 20s as opposed to closer to 30s?

Cars feel so damn necessary, but on that same note, not something worth accruing debt from.

Is there a cap on how good I can make my credit rating? Is the method you mentioned worth doing over a long period of time or only for a year to serve as a bit of a foundation to work off? I've seen multiple arguments over how credit rating works in regards to credit cards, some people say pay it all off straight away, others say to only pay bits off at a time.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21835593 - 06/21/15 06:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When you start your own business, you can deduct all those pesky car or truck expenses.  You can either use mileage or actual expenses.  Anything else you buy for the business can be deducted off that income or other income.  Be careful not to have it be a "hobby" where you just spend money but never make money, the IRS doesn't like that.

Credit peaks at 850.  The way to high credit scores is to limit the number of cards, pay your balances off each and every month, and never ever ever be late making payments.  If you let something go to collections even once, you are screwed.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinenuds
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21835601 - 06/21/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

nuds said:
I'm a young adult not far from being thrown head first into 'real life', as you would call it.

I figure that the best way for me to ensure I don't make bad financial decisions and to set myself up for solid financial security is by asking those older than me and from all walks of life "what would you do differently?".

I know life is to be enjoyed, and I don't want to waste my life away, but I also realize how necessary money is and how much easier it makes life, so fire away and share the things you regret doing and the decisions you're happy you made, and everything in between.




1.  Pay your credit card balances off every month!  Never let the balance accumulate interest.  The banks call people who pay their balances off "deadbeats".  That alone should make you want to do it.

2.  To accumulate a debt to go to college has to be the new "stupid".  Don't do it.

3.  In fact, skip college and get a real job out of high school.  A real job is one you can do on your own without having to rely on someone else.  Buy a lawn mower and a pruner and start a landscaping business. 

4.  One of the only real money making opportunities anymore is rental real estate, but "they" (the central bankers) have screwed up that one too.  Low interest rates, high house prices, and unattractive capitalization rates mean it's not a good time to buy and rent a house.  After the next big dump of house prices, it will be time to buy.  Maybe 2020.  But really unless you are a masochist, I'd avoid buying and renting houses.

5.  On the other hand, buying a house to live in as you fix it up and live there 2 or more years out of 5 to avoid capital gains taxes makes perfect sense.  Buy low!  Sell high!

6.  Learn to grow lettuce and tomatoes, and save money that way.  Sell your excess at the farmers market.

7.  Avoid debt.

8.  Avoid debt.

9.  Avoid debt.

10. Pay off any debt you didn't avoid ASAP.



Also choice advice. You reiterated my whole credit card argument pretty well, 2 opposing pieces of advice in 2 comments :wink:

To do a skilled job requires university level education, such as being a chemist, engineer, doctor etc.
Hell even to start a business wouldn't I need to do a business degree to learn the ins and outs?

Wouldn't a startup fund be needed, which if I were to take out as a loan put me in a very precarious position?

Like the other post though, awesome advice :thumbup:
cheers for the replies lads


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21835615 - 06/21/15 06:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Most university students have been finding out the hard way lately that a degree really isn't any guarantee of getting that quality job you speak of.  The last time I checked, electricians and plumbers got trained as apprentices if lucky enough to get onto the program.  Later, they can make big $$ while being in demand.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlinenuds
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21835632 - 06/21/15 06:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Most university students have been finding out the hard way lately that a degree really isn't any guarantee of getting that quality job you speak of.  The last time I checked, electricians and plumbers got trained as apprentices if lucky enough to get onto the program.  Later, they can make big $$ while being in demand.



So are you saying it's a smarter idea to pick up a trade and/or start a business (...without a business degree?) than it is to attend uni and get a degree. That would make the last 2 years of my life completing school for an ATAR a waste  :feelsbadman:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21835670 - 06/21/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Not a complete waste!  You can always hang the degree up on your wall to impress people.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21835871 - 06/21/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I would have not gone to college and I would have bought a big house I couldn't afford.  My teenage friends who did that are doing better financially than I am, even though I did what I thought was the "right" thing.  The govt. rewards bad financial decisions and it punishes good financial decisions and I set myself back by fighting this prevailing wind.  Now I go along with the prevailing wind and I embrace debt.


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21835949 - 06/21/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

College is just a racket for the schools and the us govt to make money off naive young people. Certain degrees like nursing, engineering, geology, computer science etc can make it pretty easy to get a job in their respective fields.

You need to get away from thinking college is a prerequisite to effectiveness in the world. A b.a. in business administration just teaches you how to be a mid level manager, doesn't teach you entrepreneurial skills. Business comes natural to human beings. Find something you can do do barter the least amount of your time/skill/service for the most amount of money to the most people. If you live in a big city, there's all kinds of people with unmet demands. Something to be said for being an employee first and learning how the boss runs his business before you start on your own.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: What would you differently? [Re: saenchai]
    #21835962 - 06/21/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The govt spends money on college education, it is heavily subsidized.  Its the overpaid administrators and teachers that are cleaning up.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21836184 - 06/21/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

OP - I would have started planning my future earlier.

I floated around in my late teens/early 20's never really getting any solid skills but doing lots of travelling and partying. Although I have many valuable life experiences, I have few truly marketable/well paying skills, although I can do alot of things! Instead of going to school or choosing a field and working my up through it, I wasted many years avoiding work or jumping from job to job without trying to use it as a way to advance my life. Obviously - not a good plan.

That said, I also think a freshfaced kid coming straight out of university with NO real life experience isn't in a much better position. There is a very fine line between having practical knowledge/experience and education. I think it is very important to find that balance....

It is important to pay yourself first. ALWAYS put away money for your future starting an RRSP, mutual fund or other passive (or active) investment vehicle for saving money is important and the power of compound interest will be tremendously beneficial to you if you start at a young age and have the discipline to let it grow.

Don't get caught up "keepin' up with the jonses" ie. don't use other people as a reference for how you should spend your money. I see people all around me making terrible financial decisions and although I don't have the toys, I also don't have the debt. Whether it's eating out, buying lattes or buying a boat .... keep your "needs" in check.

On the other hand I am a strong proponent of buying the best quality of anything i can afford. I am too poor to buy crap. Buying good quality things which are "built to last" are a better investment than buying things which are cheaply built or have planned obsolesence. (sp?)

Also - I don't think post secondary education is a complete waste if you go into it with the right approach. I turn 30 this summer and just completed my first year of a science degree (which will take me another 4 years to complete). Although it sucks in many respects and i REALLY wish i was further ahead than I am in life, I do feel like this is the best option to have a good quality life and a sustainable lifestyle throughout my career.

I've done trades work and school and alot of people push it, and it's true It pays well and is in demand. However, everyone forgets to mention how much it SUCKS. (different strokes for different folks...)

While it is possible to be highly successful as entrepreneurs, it takes a special type of mentality to do it, and if you don't have the idea or the drive - you probably won't succeed. (my stepfather (a HS drop out) made a 6 figure salary at the end of his career by selling insurance products. My Grandparents become millionaires by starting up a classifieds paper with NO formal education.)

I think university has its place and if you approach it intelligently it can position you in a much more advantageous position than if you avoid going. This may totally depend on your field of study though, aswell as your location. For me, in Canada the job prospects aswell as the cost of university are substantially better than for the Americans...


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21836435 - 06/21/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
The govt spends money on college education, it is heavily subsidized.  Its the overpaid administrators and teachers that are cleaning up.




I agree, I was thinking about the billions the us government makes in interest payments from federal loans. Either way its overpriced and generally doesn't deliver the value it promises to without considering the actually important parts like networking, choosing a good degree etc


Edited by saenchai (06/21/15 10:56 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: What would you differently? [Re: saenchai]
    #21836570 - 06/21/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think the government makes billions from interest.  Student loans often default and go into non-standard payment.  I recall reading somewhere... that half of all student loans are not being re-payed on the standard 10 year schedule.  Student loan interest is low considering the high amount of risks and defaults, that difference is made up for by the govt.  In 2007 the first wave of Income Based Repayment loan forgiveness happens and millions of lent money will be written off and not re-payed.

The government doesn't really make money on anything (besides taking from citizens via force).  It hemorrhages money left and right.


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InvisibleMojo
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21838264 - 06/21/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I graduated in May of last year with over $30,000 in student loan debt; today I am 100% debt free... 

If I could do it all over again I would have finished college a lot sooner. :shrug:

Sure my friends that didn't go to school were making money the whole time I was not, but I am making more money than they are now, and I will continue to earn more than them for the next 30yrs of my working life...


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Offlinenuds
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: Mojo]
    #21838353 - 06/21/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So I just had a chat to my grandfather who is by trade an industrial chemist, but is currently doing work that covers all fields of chemistry.

He reckons, same as the majority of people in this thread, that getting a degree is a waste of time. He never completed his, and quickly realized that most everything he'd learnt was for naught anyway as theory/practical application are two completely different sides of the coin.
On that same note; he never would have had the opportunity to advance so far in his field if he weren't presented with lucky working opportunities at a young age. So it would appear that like PDU said, there's a fine line to walk.

His advice was basically, if I were to follow in his footsteps and eventually take the reins of the chemical company he is currently building, to cover the basics through a degree that I never intend to finish, i.e complete the first 2 or so years whilst still working as a lab assistant during the days to help him out.

Now this seems like a pretty cool idea, but I'm not sure if I'd be getting paid enough (if at all as it'd be family business) to warrant the practical experience I'd be receiving from working with him. Would it be worth putting off another few years of a proper income for the sake of experience? My answer is, 'probably', but if it wasn't to work out then again, it would just end up being another few years wasted, which is the last thing I want to do, and end up leaving myself in a bit of a financial rut early on in life.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: nuds]
    #21838571 - 06/21/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nuds said:
So I just had a chat to my grandfather who is by trade an industrial chemist, but is currently doing work that covers all fields of chemistry.

He reckons, same as the majority of people in this thread, that getting a degree is a waste of time. He never completed his, and quickly realized that most everything he'd learnt was for naught anyway as theory/practical application are two completely different sides of the coin.
On that same note; he never would have had the opportunity to advance so far in his field if he weren't presented with lucky working opportunities at a young age. So it would appear that like PDU said, there's a fine line to walk.

His advice was basically, if I were to follow in his footsteps and eventually take the reins of the chemical company he is currently building, to cover the basics through a degree that I never intend to finish, i.e complete the first 2 or so years whilst still working as a lab assistant during the days to help him out.

Now this seems like a pretty cool idea, but I'm not sure if I'd be getting paid enough (if at all as it'd be family business) to warrant the practical experience I'd be receiving from working with him. Would it be worth putting off another few years of a proper income for the sake of experience? My answer is, 'probably', but if it wasn't to work out then again, it would just end up being another few years wasted, which is the last thing I want to do, and end up leaving myself in a bit of a financial rut early on in life.





If you can't make a career out of this family business, what good is the experience? You'll never a good doing industrial chemistry without graduate degree(s).

Although i'd be happy to hear otherwise...


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Invisiblememes
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: PDU]
    #21838772 - 06/21/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you're going to take over the family business, then go grab the knowledge base through the college prereq's like your gramps said, then dip out and pursue the family biz. 

if you plan on being a chemist outside of the family biz, as PDU said, your degree will carry more weight.  Sure, if you do such a breadth and depth of work within the family business that your years and range of experience (after like a deacde of doing work) won't differ from that of a graduate-degree-holder, then the fact that you didnt graduate wont matter.

but for the first few years, it will (if the family business goes under, or whatever)


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Offlinesaenchai
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Re: What would you differently? [Re: Mojo]
    #21838893 - 06/21/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mojo said:
I graduated in May of last year with over $30,000 in student loan debt; today I am 100% debt free... 

If I could do it all over again I would have finished college a lot sooner. :shrug:

Sure my friends that didn't go to school were making money the whole time I was not, but I am making more money than they are now, and I will continue to earn more than them for the next 30yrs of my working life...




I dropped out at 19 and got a 98k per year job through networking and moving states. I've left that company and done it several times at this point while traveling/vacationing in between trying out different things and whatnot.

Not saying that to brag, I don't think it matters personally because anybody can work different places and quit, I don't think it's noteworthy at all. I definitely don't regret it though and I definitely know some of my college peers have what would be considered a bright future after graduating and some that are still supported by their parents and don't know what to do with themselves.

I just started working again and make a pretty good salary as an independent contractor and was also just offered a 4-5k/month stint next month with hotel paid for because of my (intermittent) experience in the field and my ability to market myself. I have no degree although I am not always truthful about my periods of unemployment on my resume.

For the sake of answering op's question, take that into consideration as well. Everything isn't black and white and what you think are the rules can be bent sometimes. Certifications don't beat the mindset of going after what you want (both is ideal). There are practical limits to both but they aren't what you think.
BTW I'm bipolar and don't like dealing with people face to face much. If I didn't have those issues, I'd have just stuck out one place and rode it out but I've made a thing of catering my life to my needs. YMMV but there's the other side of that picture


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