|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 4 days
|
grain monotub question/ BRF cake question
#21833915 - 06/20/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
hi all, I am going to start 2 monotubs soon, using 6 quarts of spawn each, as per franks 12 steps. Only difference is that im going to be using rye berries instead of WBS. MY question regarding this is should I include the same amount of rye instead of WBS or are the ratios different? If so how many cups of rye berries does it take to fill 12 quart jars?
2nd question: PF/BRF cakes
If my cakes aren't having a good second flush, im thinking about crumbling them up in a monotub(would the SGFC be better?) and casing them with verm/coir mix?
a friend did this and he said he got decent yields from it, and I saw the fruits as proof. Ive also read on here of a few people trying this out.
just wondering if that is viable and what if any substrate I should mix it with, as well as casing would be good to use.
regarding monotub:
If the moisture disappears off the inside walls of the monotub, I just mist the inside walls to get them wet again right?
also, during a 2nd and 3rd flush of a monotub, you rehydrate the tub by just misting the inside, and then repeating the colonize/fruiting process
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
|
Grim767
Traveler of the Abyss



Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 225
Loc: The Abyss
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: firstTIMER420]
#21834059 - 06/20/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I believe the ratio rye is the same as with WBS. I would just use SGFC for cakes. And the point of a monotub is to not have to mist. If the condensation on the walls is disappearing you have to much FAE. You want the bottom holes stuffed tight and the top holes loose you should only see loss of condensation around top holes.
-------------------- Trade List I won't bow to something that I've never seen, Can't believe in something that doesn't believe in me, I'm not blood of your blood, I'm no son of your god, I have no faith in your faith, Still I find salvation.
|
Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Grim767]
#21834142 - 06/20/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Although an ideal monotub might not need a misting, I still think it's smart to mist when needed.
On a side note the condensation on the walls doesn't mean anything. Lots of times I have no condensation when the room gets hot (condensation is from a temperature difference). As long as it feels humid in it, you're fine. You want lots of fae anyway. I don't even have poly in the top holes, and I have great results living in a 0-10% humidity climate.
Edited by Mad Season (06/20/15 09:40 PM)
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Mad Season]
#21834307 - 06/20/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad Season said: Although an ideal monotub might not need a misting, I still think it's smart to mist when needed.
On a side note the condensation on the walls doesn't mean anything. Lots of times I have no condensation when the room gets hot (condensation is from a temperature difference). As long as it feels humid in it, you're fine. You want lots of fae anyway. I don't even have poly in the top holes, and I have great results living in a 0-10% humidity climate.
I agree with nearly all of the above. If your tub needs misting, by all means mist it. All substrates should be visually inspected at least daily and the conditions should be adjusted based on need.
My only point of contention is a pretty minor one: condensation is a linear function of humidity and temperature. You can sometimes calculate the relative humidity inside your tub by checking for condensation and measuring the temperature inside and outside.
|
firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 4 days
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Psilicon]
#21834366 - 06/20/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
good to know guys, thanks for the advice. BTW I know you shouldn't have to mist a monotub, which is why I am asking what if.
you guys have any tips/tricks for telling when the monotub needs to be misted if at all?
also, thank you for the ratio, I hope my first 2 monotubs are successful, I plan on stacking them ontop of one another.
the consensus on the crumbled cakes?:crumble and case with..what?(I was gonna case with verm, maybe verm/coir, what you guys think.
and a SGFC for them I guess, that would mean I would need to mist almost daily, as well as wait for them to colonize back together again, and then some of the casing colonization as well right?
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
Edited by firstTIMER420 (06/20/15 10:24 PM)
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: firstTIMER420]
#21834395 - 06/20/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
What you want is to see moisture glistening on the surface of your substrate when you get close to it with your eyes. If you don't see that, you need to mist.
All fruiting chambers are is a way to sacrifice FAE to keep a higher RH. You can't shut it off completely or they won't pin, so all the fruiting chambers attempt to do is keep the RH above 95% or so. I like to really walk that line, since high FAE is another very important factor in how good your pinset is (and also the quality of your fruits). Unfortunately, if you err on the side of FAE, you're going to need to mist. Fortunately, a few squirts from a water bottle isn't that much effort.
I don't like the crumble/case method, personally. I don't think you get much better yield from it than you do from just regular cakes in a SGFC. You can get much better results from crumbling your cakes and using them as spawn for a nice bulk substrate, though.
|
Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Psilicon]
#21834408 - 06/20/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Vander, although that is true, I've never had to mist the walls. Just the substrate. I've found minimal condensation isn't a bad thing. It certainly doesn't mean you should mist the walls. I find that condensation is pretty minor compared to watching the substrate daily like you said. Also monitoring how often you need to mist/fruits to get a feel for your conditions, then adjusting poly to make sure it's dialed in to suit your needs.
Firsttimer, if you have unlimited substrate you can go for it, I too have done it when I was nooby with success, but you should have clean spawn when spawning. Spent cakes are far from clean.
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Mad Season]
#21834426 - 06/20/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mad Season said: Vander, although that is true, I've never had to mist the walls. Just the substrate. I've found minimal condensation isn't a bad thing. It certainly doesn't mean you should mist the walls. I find that condensation is pretty minor compared to watching the substrate daily like you said. Also monitoring how often you need to mist/fruits to get a feel for your conditions, then adjusting poly to make sure it's dialed in to suit your needs.
Firsttimer, if you have unlimited substrate you can go for it, I too have done it when I was nooby with success, but you should have clean spawn when spawning. Spent cakes are far from clean.

Especially about the cake question, which I didn't read thoroughly enough. I'm always against crumble and case, but with spent cakes it's even worse. Spent cakes belong outside, where the huge amount of FAE gives them a fighting chance against the parasitic molds in the Trichoderma genus.
|
firstTIMER420
Born the son of a sharecropper..



Registered: 05/08/15
Posts: 1,025
Loc: US, maybe?
Last seen: 6 years, 4 days
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Psilicon]
#21834499 - 06/20/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
van der griegen said: What you want is to see moisture glistening on the surface of your substrate when you get close to it with your eyes. If you don't see that, you need to mist.
All fruiting chambers are is a way to sacrifice FAE to keep a higher RH. You can't shut it off completely or they won't pin, so all the fruiting chambers attempt to do is keep the RH above 95% or so. I like to really walk that line, since high FAE is another very important factor in how good your pinset is (and also the quality of your fruits). Unfortunately, if you err on the side of FAE, you're going to need to mist. Fortunately, a few squirts from a water bottle isn't that much effort.
I don't like the crumble/case method, personally. I don't think you get much better yield from it than you do from just regular cakes in a SGFC. You can get much better results from crumbling your cakes and using them as spawn for a nice bulk substrate, though.
what your saying in the last part is that using a spent cake to spawn to substrate you don't agree with, but a fresh one you do. I can see how it would be easier for a spent cake to be taken over by contamination, but im willing to take the chance if I don't get a decent yield, and would you really consider a cake spent after the first flush?
so, crumble/case is different from crumbling/spawning to a new sub? I can see that. If I did that im guessing it would increase the fruits significantly. What substrate would you recommend for BRF cakes?
Im getting the hang for knowing when my cakes are needing moisture and when not, but the perks of switching to a monotub outweigh doing the pf cakes for the rest of my life. I have a feeling my current yields are gonna be small, like 5 grams small(dry...hopefully )
Just to throw this in there, im trying to see the point in g2g, and I cant seem to understand it. I guess its for if you want to save spore solution, or if you have limited agar or something. and from what ive seen, it has a high chance of contam doing g2g
btw, my next grow is going to be golden teacher and treasure coast(ive picked these on fields, GOD DAMN they can get big! had a fruit that was 6 inches across!)(if you live in the area, hmu if you want.)
-------------------- 1 2 3 4 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22386794[/url] --Anything posted by this account is completely fictitious--
Edited by firstTIMER420 (06/20/15 11:01 PM)
|
Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: firstTIMER420]
#21834867 - 06/21/15 12:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
firstTIMER420 said:
what your saying in the last part is that using a spent cake to spawn to substrate you don't agree with, but a fresh one you do. I can see how it would be easier for a spent cake to be taken over by contamination, but im willing to take the chance if I don't get a decent yield, and would you really consider a cake spent after the first flush?
I certainly would. Not entirely spent, but it's weakened to the point where I wouldn't want to weaken it much more by crumbling and then asking it to colonize a low-nutrient, high-moisture substrate. That's a difficult job.
so, crumble/case is different from crumbling/spawning to a new sub? I can see that. If I did that im guessing it would increase the fruits significantly. What substrate would you recommend for BRF cakes?
I like CV. It's pretty difficult to fuck up. I haven't even pasteurized my last few batches.
Im getting the hang for knowing when my cakes are needing moisture and when not, but the perks of switching to a monotub outweigh doing the pf cakes for the rest of my life. I have a feeling my current yields are gonna be small, like 5 grams small(dry...hopefully )
I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from moving to tubs. I love them and do tubs exclusively and I'm always happy and excited to see someone else try them. It's just that those indicators that tell you you're doing something wrong on cakes (fuzzy feet, small caps, long stipes, early maturation, overlay, bruising, aborts, metabolites, splitting caps, splitting stems and so on) tell you the exact same thing with every other susbstrate. 
Just to throw this in there, im trying to see the point in g2g, and I cant seem to understand it. I guess its for if you want to save spore solution, or if you have limited agar or something. and from what ive seen, it has a high chance of contam doing g2g
The chance of contamination isn't that bad with a little practice and good technique. But the real benefit is in having a large amount of dry inoculant, which is a little more contamination resistant, but which can nevertheless be distributed all around your receiving jar with a shake. I suppose you could also do this with twenty small wedges per jar and a good shake, but you'd chew through your agar pretty fast and you'd spent a lot of time with both your plate and your jar lid open. It typically takes me about two weeks to colonize from a small wedge. It takes about six days to colonize from a G2G, and while eventually contamination will probably catch up to you, you can use it in the short term to quickly, cheaply and easily expand your inoculant.
btw, my next grow is going to be golden teacher and treasure coast(ive picked these on fields, GOD DAMN they can get big! had a fruit that was 6 inches across!)(if you live in the area, hmu if you want.)
I don't know what your area is, but I think I might be kind of close to you for the next couple weeks. 
|
oontribe

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
|
Re: grain monotub question/ BRF cake question [Re: Psilicon]
#21835527 - 06/21/15 05:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Most of the time with cakes and sometimes with monos the 2nd flush is better than the 1st one! g2g saves time as you are not waiting for the spores to germinate, and to expand your growth of course.
|
|