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Invisibledjmako7
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Will increasing PC times help reduce contam?
    #21833642 - 06/20/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ive been doing jars at 15psi for 90 minutes. Most come out contaminated. If I increase times to 120 or even 180 minutes will this hurt the spawn or will it be ok to inoculate?


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21833657 - 06/20/15 07:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you're talking about bacterial endospores, I find for animal feed it needs to be pcd for a minimum 2 hours. Also it's better to have it on the dry side over wet side for them bacterial contams


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InvisibleCH HELL
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21833673 - 06/20/15 07:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you are doing quart jars then 90 minutes is more than enough,  if you are doing larger bags then increasing the time could help. 
Look into the entire process if it is quart jars.  From a full 24 hour soak to inoculation.

CH


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: CH HELL]
    #21833691 - 06/20/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah im doing quart jars. The reason I asked is because I had a batch of jars contam before I inoculated them. So my next batch I pc'd for 2 hours and they seem fine. 

Im using White Millet.

Let me say that white millet bacteria contamination is worse smelling than a decomposing body.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21833709 - 06/20/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There's been a large number of members noticing a difference when upping pc times to 2 hours, like you said. Actually, there's even some that do 2 pc cycles. One at a low pressure, and one at a high one. The endospores seem to be able to survive high pc times. If we didn't have to worry about endospores, we wouldn't need to pc, and would just do a regular pasteurization.


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Edited by Mad Season (06/20/15 08:01 PM)


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21833755 - 06/20/15 08:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
Ive been doing jars at 15psi for 90 minutes. Most come out contaminated. If I increase times to 120 or even 180 minutes will this hurt the spawn or will it be ok to inoculate?



What PC do you have? You may be able to increase pressure to 20psi by adding some extra weight and not have to increase cook times. I run my AAs at 20psi and cook WBS for 90 mins, qt jars. For 10 lb XL spawn bags I do 2hrs at 20psi.


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Edited by Juiceh (06/20/15 08:15 PM)


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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21833776 - 06/20/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
Yeah im doing quart jars. The reason I asked is because I had a batch of jars contam before I inoculated them. So my next batch I pc'd for 2 hours and they seem fine. 

Im using White Millet.

Let me say that white millet bacteria contamination is worse smelling than a decomposing body.




How long did you soak your grains? Soaking for at least 8 hours will cause most bacillus endospores to revive, thus making them a lot easier to kill with a PC cycle.


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InvisibleCH HELL
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21833799 - 06/20/15 08:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Make sure you are soaking the grain long enough I soak until it stinks this is the endospores it is normally 18-24 hours.

Make sure you pc is working properly,  the gauge could be off or the rocker could be dirty.  If it isn't getting to 15 psi then your cook time will need to be adjusted. 

  Check your filters/lids on the jars.

90 minutes is preferred and has worked for professional growers for years.  You will never get grain 100% sterile without cooking it dry. The reason 90 minutes is used is that it kills enough to get the myc to grow before most anything else can grow while leaving the grain hydrated yet firm not mush or dried.  With that being said if the grain is usable after 2 hours pc it for two hours.:shrug:

CH


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Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: CH HELL]
    #21833836 - 06/20/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I soak for 24 hours then simmer for 15 minutes. When I soak I do RR's method where I keep rinsing until its clear. And then repeat after the 24 hours and then simmer. I only simmer to get the grains hot enough so that the moisture evaporates quicker.

Thanks for the replies. Ill stick to 2 hours since its working that way.

I do have to say doing WBS or straight millet is a little bit more of a hassle than rye. When Im out of my 10 pounds of millet im going to be heading back to rye.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21833938 - 06/20/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
I soak for 24 hours then simmer for 15 minutes. When I soak I do RR's method where I keep rinsing until its clear. And then repeat after the 24 hours and then simmer. I only simmer to get the grains hot enough so that the moisture evaporates quicker.

Thanks for the replies. Ill stick to 2 hours since its working that way.

I do have to say doing WBS or straight millet is a little bit more of a hassle than rye. When Im out of my 10 pounds of millet im going to be heading back to rye.



If you use gypsum or coffee in the soak don't rinse again after the soak. RR does not rinse again after the soak in his videos, he adds gypsum. If you have no gypsum or coffee in the soak then a rinse won't hurt.

WBS takes a bit more effort, for sure. After I kill this bag of WBS I'm on the other bag is getting shelved for a bit so I can dive into this 150lb stash of oats I just picked up.


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Edited by Juiceh (06/20/15 08:55 PM)


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InvisibleNumeroEno
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: Juiceh]
    #21834036 - 06/20/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I hope pastywhyte will drop by this thread.  I remember he was having a lot of trouble with endospores a while back and I know he also uses a lot of millet.


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What shall we say, shall we call it by a name
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Invisiblemush madness
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: NumeroEno]
    #21834117 - 06/20/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

He was having problems with a batch of oats, he went to a 2 day run. I dont know how many hours he runs each day but I do know he was running 2 cycles.

I had the same issues with a batch of oats, I increased my time by 30 minutes but do the double runs for spawn bags.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: mush madness]
    #21834349 - 06/20/15 10:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

90 min is sufficient for most people most of the time but there is no reason not to treat that as a minimum. There is a reason places like Aloha do 4 hours at 60 psi. I did have a batch of grain that needed a double run, it was oats and 60 min 15psi for the first run and 120 min 20 psi for the second did the trick. If you suspect something is wrong and your agar work is good, try it out.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21835038 - 06/21/15 12:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What are you using as inoculate? Are you using a clean culture from agar?



Ive been increasing my PC times and pressure a bit too
I run my AA at 20 PSI and run quart jars for 2 hrs, bags for 2.5-3


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Edited by mushpunx (06/21/15 01:35 AM)


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21835502 - 06/21/15 04:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mushpunx said:
I run my AA at 20 PSI and run quart jars for 2 hrs, bags for 2.5-3




^^this.

2 hours is fine.  if i have 6 bags, i cook 3.5 hours, but i also don't simmer grains for bags, just soak and drain.  to much work to simmer.

edit:my bad, i do 15PSI, not 20.


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Edited by blindingleaf (06/21/15 04:57 AM)


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21835567 - 06/21/15 05:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Quote:

mushpunx said:
I run my AA at 20 PSI and run quart jars for 2 hrs, bags for 2.5-3




^^this.

2 hours is fine.  if i have 6 bags, i cook 3.5 hours, but i also don't simmer grains for bags, just soak and drain.  to much work to simmer.

edit:my bad, i do 15PSI, not 20.





Right on :wink:

Ive always run at 15 but the last couple runs I decided to try cranking it up to 20 because I thought "why not?" :lol:
Think that can cause any problems dude?


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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: djmako7]
    #21835609 - 06/21/15 06:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
Yeah im doing quart jars. The reason I asked is because I had a batch of jars contam before I inoculated them. So my next batch I pc'd for 2 hours and they seem fine. 

Im using White Millet.

Let me say that white millet bacteria contamination is worse smelling than a decomposing body.




Best method for millet and wbs :smile:
fast easy and works like magic.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: oontribe]
    #21835651 - 06/21/15 06:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

No problems at 20psi that I know of.  I've only seen caramelized/burnt grains if I run it twice.

How ru getting it that high?  Weights or u have electric?

I put wood clothrs pin on my weight, but that just keeps it quiet at 15


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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21835688 - 06/21/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Soak your grain/seeds in hot water for 18 hours to activate the endospores making them easier to kill.
Some endospores can survive high temperature cooking for long periods of time.

Optionally PC for 40-60 minutes after soaking for 18 hours, leave for 12 hours, refill the PC with water and PC for another 40-60 minutes.

Soak and 2 pass cook will be better than a long period cook.


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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21835838 - 06/21/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
No problems at 20psi that I know of.  I've only seen caramelized/burnt grains if I run it twice.

How ru getting it that high?  Weights or u have electric?

I put wood clothrs pin on my weight, but that just keeps it quiet at 15




I just turn the weight to 20 and turn vthe heat up a little bit, I mean I dunno if its really getting 20 PSI or not the gauge says 20 though and its all american so I think youcan trust it yea?


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21836077 - 06/21/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Oh word, my weights only have up to 15.
I didn't even know they made higher weights!


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: Will increasing PC times help reduce contam? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #21836984 - 06/21/15 01:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Oh word, my weights only have up to 15.
I didn't even know they made higher weights!



I saw this and was gonna say the same. I've never seen 20psi weights. He may be using a sterilizer with the stopcock or an older pc with one or a new pc converted with a stopcock to get to 20psi. I have to run my weight at the 15psi setting and add ~40g of extra weight to get to 20psi on my AA921 & 930.


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