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InvisibleShins
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Posts: 16,337
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: koods]
    #21846069 - 06/23/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Civil war was about expanding the power of the federal  government first and foremost.  The confederate flag reprisents states rights and limited government.    The federal unionists used slavery as a rallying cry yes but their true intentions were to bring the southern states under the thumb of tge federal government.


To me the attack on the confederate flag seems nore like people trying to eliminate a symbol of government dessent and resistance,  ironically agaun peolle are using racism as a rallying cry, but I'm 100% sure that there are boot licking statists out there who are eager to eliminate the flag as a symbol of resistance against the government.



The civil war was about the southern states being able to keep slaves. You are fucking retard if you don't know this.





No it was not.  The issue of slavery was a public relations propaganda campaign in order to rally people to the war on the side of the north, but the politicians running it were only interested in expanding the federal union. The politicians liked slavery, but they also liked federal power even more, ifbthey could have gotten it without using slavery for PR they would have.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21846072 - 06/23/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Why should that hold any bearing?  You can't look at somebody from Ireland and tell they're white?  On the same note people back then in positions of power did what they'll always do and pinch EVERY penny they can in order to make a dollar.  Race be damned.

Am I saying I'm for slavery? No!  But then again neither was the General of the Confederate Army. 

@koods-That's a little reductionist, don't you think?


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
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InvisibleShins
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: koods]
    #21846075 - 06/23/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
People in the north also owned slaves




If they did , it was illegal. It was legal in the south, and when that legality was threatened, the southern states attacked the federal government in an act of treason.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The confederate flag is symbol of racism and treason. And being losers.






You need to read something other than The Young Turks to get your info.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins]
    #21846081 - 06/23/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Civil war was about expanding the power of the federal  government first and foremost.  The confederate flag reprisents states rights and limited government.    The federal unionists used slavery as a rallying cry yes but their true intentions were to bring the southern states under the thumb of tge federal government.





Yes, it represents a states right to own slaves.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleShins
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins]
    #21846084 - 06/23/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lincoln said:
I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins]
    #21846097 - 06/23/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/06/22/the_confederate_flag_is_the_legacy_of_democrats_not_republicans

Quote:

The Confederate Flag Is the Legacy of Democrats, Not Republicans!




The racists in the South were Democrats, the Republicans led the civil war and the civil rights act against Democrat opposition.  These are facts.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #21846099 - 06/23/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Why should that hold any bearing?  You can't look at somebody from Ireland and tell they're white?  On the same note people back then in positions of power did what they'll always do and pinch EVERY penny they can in order to make a dollar.  Race be damned.

Am I saying I'm for slavery? No!  But then again neither was the General of the Confederate Army. 

@koods-That's a little reductionist, don't you think?




They're not just white because of their skin color. They are also white because of their social standing, economic status and historical relationship with the system of white supremacy. You think the Ayatollah of Iran could go down to Dixieland and be seen as white? He is white, though, pink cheeks and all. Racial delineations are about more than skin color.

Check out How the Irish Became White.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: koods]
    #21846102 - 06/23/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Civil war was about expanding the power of the federal  government first and foremost.  The confederate flag reprisents states rights and limited government.    The federal unionists used slavery as a rallying cry yes but their true intentions were to bring the southern states under the thumb of tge federal government.





Yes, it represents a states right to own slaves.




The only slave a state ever owned is a worker they tax.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow] * 1
    #21846106 - 06/23/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Why should that hold any bearing?  You can't look at somebody from Ireland and tell they're white?  On the same note people back then in positions of power did what they'll always do and pinch EVERY penny they can in order to make a dollar.  Race be damned.

Am I saying I'm for slavery? No!  But then again neither was the General of the Confederate Army. 

@koods-That's a little reductionist, don't you think?




No. Claiming that the civil war was about anything other than that legal slave ownership was being threatened is revisionist history.

Was it about economic? Yes. The economics of slave labor.

Was it about states rights? Yes. The states right to be a slave state.

Was it about an overreaching federal government? Yes. A federal government that was going to outlaw slavery.

The civil war was about slavery.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineMchaggis
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins] * 1
    #21846108 - 06/23/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Robert E. Lee said, when asked by a widow what to do with her Confederate flags,

"Fold it up. Put it away"

I don't know why much more needs be said. Says the guy with Jeff Davis as an avatar. I think I might know a thing or two about this :redneck:


--------------------
I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. It's not available because if you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body


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InvisibleShins
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: koods]
    #21846109 - 06/23/15 01:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Civil war was about expanding the power of the federal  government first and foremost.  The confederate flag reprisents states rights and limited government.    The federal unionists used slavery as a rallying cry yes but their true intentions were to bring the southern states under the thumb of tge federal government.





Yes, it represents a states right to own slaves.





Only to shallow, gulliable morons.

The vast majoriry of soldiers in the confederacy did not own slaves.  They were fighting for independence from the federal unionists.  Again, slavery was used as a lynch pin, but did not reprisent the true intentions of the federalists.  It was used because they knew slavery was unpopular and that it would make an effective standard for people to rally around.


--------------------
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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: koods]
    #21846111 - 06/23/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You really haven't read much on the subject huh?  Wars are never that clear cut.  That's like saying, "every American in the Middle East is a bible thumpin hick that wants to waste towel heads".  There were complicated issues on either side of that war.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21846114 - 06/23/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Why should that hold any bearing?  You can't look at somebody from Ireland and tell they're white?  On the same note people back then in positions of power did what they'll always do and pinch EVERY penny they can in order to make a dollar.  Race be damned.

Am I saying I'm for slavery? No!  But then again neither was the General of the Confederate Army. 

@koods-That's a little reductionist, don't you think?




They're not just white because of their skin color. They are also white because of their social standing, economic status and historical relationship with the system of white supremacy. You think the Ayatollah of Iran could go down to Dixieland and be seen as white? He is white, though, pink cheeks and all. Racial delineations are about more than skin color.

Check out How the Irish Became White.



I'm a Watusi.  From now on I must insist that I be referred to as Negro or Negroid should my race ever come up in discussion..

Tomorrow I might be Inuit so keep an eye out so that you don't offend me.  I think I'm gong to be Maori for the weekend.  Those guys are FIERCE!


--------------------


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Offlinekoods
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins]
    #21846120 - 06/23/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/06/22/the_confederate_flag_is_the_legacy_of_democrats_not_republicans

Quote:

The Confederate Flag Is the Legacy of Democrats, Not Republicans!




The racists in the South were Democrats, the Republicans led the civil war and the civil rights act against Democrat opposition.  These are facts.




Get over it. Jesus. The democrats and republicans switched roles in the 20th century. Mainly because the modern Democratic Party was abandoned by the racist wing of the party in the south. Southern white democrats are now known as republicans.

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Civil war was about expanding the power of the federal  government first and foremost.  The confederate flag reprisents states rights and limited government.    The federal unionists used slavery as a rallying cry yes but their true intentions were to bring the southern states under the thumb of tge federal government.





Yes, it represents a states right to own slaves.





Only to shallow, gulliable morons.

The vast majoriry of soldiers in the confederacy did not own slaves.  They were fighting for independence from the federal unionists.  Again, slavery was used as a lynch pin, but did not reprisent the true intentions of the federalists.  It was used because they knew slavery was unpopular and that it would make an effective standard for people to rally around.




You really need to read up of the history of that time. I suggest you pick up a book or two.

Of course the soldiers didn't own slaves. What does that have to do with anything? How hard is it ever to get a bunch of ignorant rednecks to pick up a gun and fight?

Shins, if it wasn't about slavery then what was it about? Stop using phrases like states rights. What states rights specifically were they fighting for, besides the right to own slaves.


Edited by koods (06/23/15 01:49 PM)


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InvisibleShins
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21846122 - 06/23/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lincoln’s words: “I view the matter (Emancipation Proclamation) as a practical war measure, to be decided upon according to the advantages or disadvantages it may offer to the suppression of the rebellion.”


--------------------
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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins]
    #21846130 - 06/23/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Lincoln’s words: “I view the matter (Emancipation Proclamation) as a practical war measure, to be decided upon according to the advantages or disadvantages it may offer to the suppression of the rebellion.”




Because who needs context when there's a half-baked ahistorical "point" to score?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleShins
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Shins]
    #21846134 - 06/23/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”


--------------------
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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21846133 - 06/23/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Why should that hold any bearing?  You can't look at somebody from Ireland and tell they're white?  On the same note people back then in positions of power did what they'll always do and pinch EVERY penny they can in order to make a dollar.  Race be damned.

Am I saying I'm for slavery? No!  But then again neither was the General of the Confederate Army. 

@koods-That's a little reductionist, don't you think?




They're not just white because of their skin color. They are also white because of their social standing, economic status and historical relationship with the system of white supremacy. You think the Ayatollah of Iran could go down to Dixieland and be seen as white? He is white, though, pink cheeks and all. Racial delineations are about more than skin color.

Check out How the Irish Became White.



:ohyou:  I should have expected a response like this outta you.  Whiteness seems like a skin color to me.  Though I recognize I'm arguing with a trans woman about how the outside of a person reflects the way they're treated outwardly.  I'd figure you'd know all about that subject.  (I sincerely mean no offense by that statement.  Just playing devils advocate.)


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21846142 - 06/23/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Why should that hold any bearing?  You can't look at somebody from Ireland and tell they're white?  On the same note people back then in positions of power did what they'll always do and pinch EVERY penny they can in order to make a dollar.  Race be damned.

Am I saying I'm for slavery? No!  But then again neither was the General of the Confederate Army. 

@koods-That's a little reductionist, don't you think?




They're not just white because of their skin color. They are also white because of their social standing, economic status and historical relationship with the system of white supremacy. You think the Ayatollah of Iran could go down to Dixieland and be seen as white? He is white, though, pink cheeks and all. Racial delineations are about more than skin color.

Check out How the Irish Became White.



I'm a Watusi.  From now on I must insist that I be referred to as Negro or Negroid should my race ever come up in discussion..

Tomorrow I might be Inuit so keep an eye out so that you don't offend me.  I think I'm gong to be Maori for the weekend.  Those guys are FIERCE!




Ever played Super Mario Bros. 3? You'd love it, there's countless different types of powerups to be scored. Aside from Fire Mario there's also Frog Mario, Hammer Mario, Squirrel Mario, Giant Boot Mario, etc.

I don't know why but that post made me think of Super Mario Bros. 3...


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21846153 - 06/23/15 01:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

> From now on I must insist that I be referred to as Negro or Negroid should my race ever come up in discussion

Hey nigga, wass up?

GA
>You really haven't read much on the subject huh?

Are you surprised?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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