|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21872187 - 06/29/15 07:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Symbolism counts for something or the south might well have waved a dildo at the north. Of COURSE symbols matter. They stand for ideas, ideas of past and present.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Asante]
#21872198 - 06/29/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
If we had it your way we'd have that symbol completely erased from history with NO recollection of its meaning. Because unfortunately your Dutch take on it seems biased IMHO. I ACTUALLY live in the south and am very well read on this section of history. Sort of a history buff actually. Nevermind what's said in the blogoshpere, that flag stood for MORE than racism. To deny that seems obtuse.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
|
Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21872235 - 06/29/15 07:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Even if it did mean slavery once, the overall idea has changed. Just like many words or symbols of the world, they change. Most people consider the confederate flag to represent state's rights and as a symbol of the states heritage.
One symbol that changed very drastically(for the worse at least) was the swastika. It originated as a sacred symbol for many buddhist and hindu people. It represented good fortune and well being. Hitler used it for white supremacy and now the same symbol for well being is connected with a racial massacre.
The point is symbols change, better or for worse. I think that the confederacy flag's ideology has changed considerably. Especially considering it wasn't even the actual flag of the confederates.
--------------------
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21872262 - 06/29/15 07:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
TheGreenArrow said: If we had it your way we'd have that symbol completely erased from history with NO recollection of its meaning.
You totally misunderstand me. Forgive but never forget.
"Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it".
Most people I known who flew that flag were racist cunts. For them it represents race war. It is all over Neonazi websites and webshops. The Klan endorses it.
You can't wash the blood out of that flag man.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Asante]
#21872292 - 06/29/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I wouldn't WANT to. That's the entire point I'm trying to make. At the same time, do you think that racists don't fly say the American flag? Hell I for one don't think it should be flown over a government building it should've been taken down at the end of the Civil War. But all the people trying to "end racism" by stopping the sales of a flag are just flat out delusional.
For fuck sake I bet you could get an Isis flag before you could get a confederate one at this point. How does that make ANY sense? By destroying the history of the confederacy we piss on the graves of the people that just happened to be born on the wrong side of the Mason/Dixon. Perhaps alot of them were racists, but what about those who just wanted to fight for their state's rights to write their own laws?
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
|
vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21872339 - 06/29/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
|
TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: vinsue]
#21872348 - 06/29/15 08:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Risky click of the day...Worth it.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: vinsue]
#21872380 - 06/29/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Asante] 1
#21872403 - 06/29/15 08:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Shroomopotamus said: dude, that's fucked
Whats fucked is that polio was so horribly prevalent and gruesome that people sprayed whole cities with DDT, and now we have Polio Vaccine and people are bitching about vaccines. Take your damn shot people. Polio is the problem.
if autism was a virus would people be getting their children vaccinated /Philosoraptor
Quote:
The Confederate flag represents the Polio of our time, the division that dug trenches in hearts of people and might lead to another civil war.
Tear Down This Flag.
this has to be one of the stupidest statements you've ever made, just because some kid with a mental illness and some real serious issues shot and killed several people you believe that the banning of flags is the appropriate response? has no one thought that getting these disturbed kids some fucking help before they shoot up schools and churches would be a better option
do you honestly think that a flag has cause a division in the US, a flag is a piece of cloth, it can do nothing, what causes the divide are people like yourself that wish to see greater division through the pandering to the race baiters in the media both in front of and behind the cameras. banning a flag, just as banning gay marriage causes a division
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: TheGreenArrow]
#21872426 - 06/29/15 08:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
>the people trying to "end racism" by stopping the sales of a flag are just flat out delusional.
Some of them are in this thread.
I saw a funny political cartoon the other day. A guy with an ak47 on his back, loads of ammo belts, two pistols on his hips, is holding up his hands in the air with another pistol in one hand and a small confederate flag in the other hand. Behind him is a cop holding a gun on him saying "drop the flag" It shows the mentality of the ban the flag crowd.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,863
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Achillita] 1
#21872437 - 06/29/15 08:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Achillita said: Most people consider the confederate flag to represent state's rights and as a symbol of the states heritage. \
Really? Most people? Which state's right does it represent? The right to secession? The right to own human beings? What heritage does it represent? A heritage of treason?
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: ballsalsa]
#21872481 - 06/29/15 09:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Achillita said: Most people consider the confederate flag to represent state's rights and as a symbol of the states heritage. \
Really? Most people? Which state's right does it represent? The right to secession? The right to own human beings? What heritage does it represent? A heritage of treason?
the same can be asked of the american flag and our celebration of independence day
state's rights were about allowing states to choose what was appropriate for them, for instance, due to the fact that states dont have rights, for 2 decades the federal government has been conducting raids on medical marijuana dispensaries in california even though the state had passed medical marijuana legislation. they've done the same in colorado with legal marijuana even though they claimed they wouldnt raid them
states do not have the right to choose what is good for their citizens
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,863
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21872590 - 06/29/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
states have the rights outlined in the constitution. secession isn't one of them. The right to import slaves was specifically protected until 1808, but that is all. Even then, Congress was allowed to levy a $10 tax on every slave imported during this time period. I'm sure abolition was a bummer for those few plantation owners who had so much invested in slaves, but hey, thats life. (besides, slavery wasn't abolished until after the war anyway) Nobody is trying to secede over marijuana laws, and if they did, i doubt you would be advocating their right to do so.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: ballsalsa]
#21872618 - 06/29/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ballsalsa said: states have the rights outlined in the constitution. secession isn't one of them. The right to import slaves was specifically protected until 1808, but that is all. Even then, Congress was allowed to levy a $10 tax on every slave imported during this time period. I'm sure abolition was a bummer for those few plantation owners who had so much invested in slaves, but hey, thats life. (besides, slavery wasn't abolished until after the war anyway) Nobody is trying to secede over marijuana laws, and if they did, i doubt you would be advocating their right to do so.
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Patlal]
#21872645 - 06/29/15 10:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
This flag represents a nation founded on white supremacy:

And so does this:

QED
--------------------
|
Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Silversoul]
#21872668 - 06/29/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
But both of those weren't even the original flags...
--------------------
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,863
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21872696 - 06/29/15 10:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
United States Constitution article 1 section 9
Quote:
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
article 1 section 8
Quote:
The Congress shall have power To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes; To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,863
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21872709 - 06/29/15 10:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
also this
https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/ninth_amendment
Quote:
The Ninth Amendment was James Madison’s attempt to ensure that the Bill of Rights was not seen as granting to the people of the United States only the specific rights it addressed. In recent years, some have interpreted it as affirming the existence of such “unenumerated” rights outside those expressly protected by the Bill of Rights.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
like the right of black people to be considered people rather than property. slavery is not a state right
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: Patlal]
#21872724 - 06/29/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I find it useful because it helps me know which people I should avoid.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 13 minutes
|
Re: What do you think of the Confederate flag? [Re: nicechrisman] 1
#21872764 - 06/29/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nicechrisman said: I find it useful because it helps me know which people I should avoid.
Got something against the Civil War silver medalists?
--------------------
|
|