|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21874125 - 06/29/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: pbw, you are the same guy who told us giving special breaks to people based on race is not racism. You have been discredited for all time.
Oh look more ad hominem.
You can click Shin's signature if you need help knowing what that means.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
You think being called out on your bs is an ad hominem? That is typical liberal tactics, avoid the issue, avoid any facts, just attack the one trying to make a logical argument.
Rational people consider special breaks given out on the basis of race to be racist. You won't even discuss it, which is why you have been discredited.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21874200 - 06/29/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: You think being called out on your bs is an ad hominem? That is typical liberal tactics, avoid the issue, avoid any facts, just attack the one trying to make a logical argument.
Rational people consider special breaks given out on the basis of race to be racist. You won't even discuss it, which is why you have been discredited.
And back to the strawman. You're really good at this.
*edit* To be clear, you brought up AA, vaguely, when I pointed out Wal-Marts choice to not carry confederate flags had more to do with business than 'thought-policing'.
Since then we've just been going round and round on your strawman... because you have no counter to the Walmart argument?
Man, you really are the pot calling the kettle black.
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
Back to evading the question I see. Lets try again and we can have fun watching you squirm, dodge and not answer
Is the giving out of preference, handouts, or other goodies based on race racist or not?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21874322 - 06/29/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
I've played this game long enough. You're really everything you think everyone else is. Evasive, dishonest. I posted in this thread in good faith and tried to remain civil. Quickly I lost respect for several posters who not only could not be honest but couldn't respond without making some veiled insult to half the other posters.
Not once have I heard anyone say rightwing nutter or anything along the lines. But it's been insinuated that I'm emo, confused, retarded, illiterate, irrational, and even a racist. Many of these have been not just directed at me but at 'leftwing extremists' in general.
My original comment may have had a poor choice of wording. That doesn't invalidate it. Walmart's choice not to sell the confederate flag is just that, a choice. It's about PR and their bottom line. They haven't been bullied but they do recognize that the flag is a symbol of racism to many. Enough so that they can profit and improve their image by distancing themselves from it.
Now if you've gotten to this point in my 'essay' I'll address affirmative action one more time. I don't define it as racism anymore than I define handicap parking places as discrimination against non-handicaps. We all start someplace different and we have different opportunities in life. Minorities in our culture have historically been discriminated against and had fewer opportunities than white people. This pushes the starting line back for many of them away from middle class and into poverty. Yes, there are white people that have the same issues and yes there may be a better way to address this than affirmative action, such as addressing poverty directly. That said there are still many other instances of 'white privilege' that need to be addressed. Such as systemic racism directed towards minorities and especially blacks by law enforcement.
I somehow doubt you'll be satisfied with my response. I doubt you'll be satisfied until I say "Yes, AA is racist. How dare blacks be treated differently!" But it's not going to happen. The above is my answer. Again. Again I define racism the way it's defined in multiple dictionaries. Again both myself, and the very wikipedia article you linked to refute my dictionary definition of racism view affirmative action as anti-racism.
Again, you'll most likely say I'm dodging and being evasive or confused or that I'm blinded by my ideologies because I'm a 'left wing extremist'.
Is your strawman satisfied? Can we talk some more about Wal-Mart?
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
The thread is not about walmart.
>Now if you've gotten to this point in my 'essay' I'll address affirmative action one more time. I don't define it as racism anymore than I define handicap parking places as discrimination against non-handicaps.
Handicapped parking is indeed discrimination against non handicapped. But its on a need basis, not for all people of a certain race, certain economic class, sex, age, or other factors. It is narrowly tailored unlike racist aa which gives handouts to all negroes regardless of the fact they may be rich.
> I don't define it as racism
A whole post full of dodging and you finally say that. Its as close to a straight answer as we will ever get out of you.
Here is the definition of racism
rac-ism
[rey-siz-uh m]
Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun 1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism
Govt policy of aa clearly is racism under 1 and 2. It assumes blacks are inferior and puts into place a policy based on discrimination. You are a supporter of racism.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21874528 - 06/29/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
And I already posted an alternate definition when you first asked the question.
Oh look, there's that same definition on the page you linked.
Quote:
racism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ noun 1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others 2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief
And another.. damn, same page.
Quote:
racism in Culture racism definition
The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them. In the United States, racism, particularly by whites against blacks, has created profound racial tension and conflict in virtually all aspects of American society. Until the breakthroughs achieved by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s, white domination over blacks was institutionalized and supported in all branches and levels of government, by denying blacks their civil rights and opportunities to participate in political, economic, and social communities.
So we're back to semantics. I think I mentioned that a long fucking time ago. Also is this thread about affirmative action? I thought it was about the fucking flag. When did it become about affirmative action? Oh right, when you straw manned my argument against your stupid thought police hyperbole.
Anyway, I will address AA since your strawman is the only thing you care to talk about. Guess I'll educate myself a bit.
Here's a counter to what seems to be the main point. And it looks like the author agrees that it's all semantics.
Myth 7. "You can't cure racism with racism.. err. discrimination. whatever."
Quote:
The problem with this myth is that it uses the same word -- discrimination -- to describe two very different things. Job discrimination is grounded in prejudice and exclusion, whereas affirmative action is an effort to overcome prejudicial treatment through inclusion. The most effective way to cure society of exclusionary practices is to make special efforts at inclusion, which is exactly what affirmative action does. The logic of affirmative action is no different than the logic of treating a nutritional deficiency with vitamin supplements. For a healthy person, high doses of vitamin supplements may be unnecessary or even harmful, but for a person whose system is out of balance, supplements are an efficient way to restore the body's balance.
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/readroom/articles/affirm.htm
-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
Edited by paperbackwriter (06/29/15 05:30 PM)
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21874684 - 06/29/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: pbw, you are the same guy who told us giving special breaks to people based on race is not racism. You have been discredited for all time.
ITT, stonebrains tries to act as though he hasn't been thoroughly discredited uncounted times.
anyone who takes this guy seriously should seek professional help
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
You complain about semantics but that's all you have. Saying discrimination is justified does not make it any less discriminatory. Racism is still racism. If it was whites getting special breaks because many white people have not succeeded, you would immediately do a back flip and say it was racist.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
WAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#21874869 - 06/29/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: pbw, you are the same guy who told us giving special breaks to people based on race is not racism. You have been discredited for all time.
ITT, stonebrains tries to act as though he hasn't been thoroughly discredited uncounted times.
anyone who takes this guy seriously should seek professional help
To me, Stone has NOT been discredited numerous times. I think he is a very sincere debater and I enjoy reading his posts.
|
paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21874879 - 06/29/15 06:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Let's play a game. You be black and I'll be white.
At the start of the game I own all of your pieces and they work for me. This goes on for 200 turns. For the next 100 turns I don't let your pieces use any of the stuff they helped me build and I kill them if they piss me off. For the next 50 years you can play as normal.
How long until you catch up?
Since I know you won't answer I'll answer for you. You don't. You're too far behind. Without help you'll be behind forever.
This is the difference between discrimination and inclusion. The argument is a semantic one. But it's your argument. Most people can tell the difference.
|
WAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: paperbackwriter] 1
#21874895 - 06/29/15 06:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
paperbackwriter said: Let's play a game. You be black and I'll be white.
At the start of the game I own all of your pieces and they work for me. This goes on for 200 turns. For the next 100 turns I don't let your pieces use any of the stuff they helped me build and I kill them if they piss me off. For the next 50 years you can play as normal.
How long until you catch up?
Since I know you won't answer I'll answer for you. You don't. You're too far behind. Without help you'll be behind forever.
This is the difference between discrimination and inclusion. The argument is a semantic one. But it's your argument. Most people can tell the difference and I'm sorry that you're too 'blinded by your ideology' to see it. Thankfully, you claim to be older than me. So hopefully you'll just die soon and your children or grandchildren won't be so close minded.
Its not just the cumulative effects of past racism that hold black people back, though. You fail to take into account the inferiority of the genes of black people. These shitty genes make shitty brains, and as such, black people are much stupider and that's why they can't amount to much.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
>At the start of the game I own all of your pieces and they work for me. This goes on for 200 turns. For the next 100 turns I don't let your pieces use any of the stuff they helped me build and I kill them if they piss me off. For the next 50 years you can play as normal.
What sort of baloney is this?
>How long until you catch up?
With what? You make no sense, you are talking apparently about things that happened hundreds of years ago. What has that to do with what we are today? If you find out you have irish ancestors and they were kept down for a long time, does that stop you from succeeding today?
>Since I know you won't answer I'll answer for you. You don't. You're too far behind. Without help you'll be behind forever.
I'm too far behind because of what happened to my ancestors? Put down the bottle of left wing hootch, you are drunk.
Wan >These shitty genes make shitty brains
Well, its considered the ultimate taboo to mention it but why should we assume all people are equal in ability? Blacks have more physical ability than the average white. That was important thousands of years ago when being fast and strong was a major survival skill. Now days brain power is much more important than physical skills. If they have an advantage in strength, perhaps they have a disadvantage in other areas? Is that so impossible to consider? Maybe that is why many of them don't get ahead? Some do.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 20,866
Loc: Foreign Lands
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21875111 - 06/29/15 07:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
WAN said:
Quote:
ballsalsa said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: pbw, you are the same guy who told us giving special breaks to people based on race is not racism. You have been discredited for all time.
ITT, stonebrains tries to act as though he hasn't been thoroughly discredited uncounted times.
anyone who takes this guy seriously should seek professional help
To me, Stone has NOT been discredited numerous times. I think he is a very sincere debater and I enjoy reading his posts.
seek professional help. seriously though, i find stoney entertaining too, and i even agree with some of the things he says. However, he has been discredited before, and he tends to take his ball and go home if anyone calls him out on it.
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Wan >These shitty genes make shitty brains
Well, its considered the ultimate taboo to mention it but why should we assume all people are equal in ability? Blacks have more physical ability than the average white. That was important thousands of years ago when being fast and strong was a major survival skill. Now days brain power is much more important than physical skills. If they have an advantage in strength, perhaps they have a disadvantage in other areas? Is that so impossible to consider? Maybe that is why many of them don't get ahead? Some do.
you see WAN? here, stonebrains seems to imply that whites are more intelligent than other races(namely blacks). Now, if i wasn't on ignore, i would ask him to show me some data to back that up. he wouldn't though, because he doesn't have data showing that whites have more brainpower.
--------------------
Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
|
WAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: ballsalsa]
#21875199 - 06/29/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Wan >These shitty genes make shitty brains
Well, its considered the ultimate taboo to mention it but why should we assume all people are equal in ability? Blacks have more physical ability than the average white. That was important thousands of years ago when being fast and strong was a major survival skill. Now days brain power is much more important than physical skills. If they have an advantage in strength, perhaps they have a disadvantage in other areas? Is that so impossible to consider? Maybe that is why many of them don't get ahead? Some do.
you see WAN? here, stonebrains seems to imply that whites are more intelligent than other races(namely blacks). Now, if i wasn't on ignore, i would ask him to show me some data to back that up. he wouldn't though, because he doesn't have data showing that whites have more brainpower.
I dont know why there hasn't been any research at all regarding any disparities in intelligence among the races either, my guess is that this subject is so taboo, that no scientists in their right minds would consider applying for funding for it.
I don't have any cold hard data supporting my belief either, however I still cling to it (my belief), because it just tracks so well with observations. Look at what white people have achieved collectively, over the last couple thousands of years. They gave us philosophers, engineers, doctors, artists, singers, nurses, teachers, and so on and so forth. They have made important scientific discoveries, as well as medical ones, just to name a few. They have truly made our earth a much more pleasant place to live in. Whereas if you look at the black race, they have done nothing, and their homeland Africa, is such a god-forsaken shit-hole. These people have been made slaves for thousands of years, and they couldn't break free of their bondage, and it took white people to grant them freedom. So my conclusion? White people are smart and accomplished, and black people are stupid and have contributed nothing to humanity and will continue to fail to do so.
Edited by WAN (06/29/15 07:21 PM)
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: WAN]
#21875262 - 06/29/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
>I dont know why there hasn't been any research at all regarding any disparities in intelligence among the races either, my guess is that this subject is so taboo, that no scientists in their right minds would consider applying for funding for it.
That is the reason. If any scientist was researching that the media would go into immediate hysteria mode and call him a racist. They don't want that information to be made public.
>if you look at the black race, they have done nothing, and their homeland Africa, is such a god-forsaken shit-hole.
They won some Olympic medals. They conned the govt into giving them racist handouts, that's an accomplishment. Not one to be proud of but still. We perhaps should get off the topic before the mods get alarmed.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
WAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21875295 - 06/29/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: >I dont know why there hasn't been any research at all regarding any disparities in intelligence among the races either, my guess is that this subject is so taboo, that no scientists in their right minds would consider applying for funding for it.
That is the reason. If any scientist was researching that the media would go into immediate hysteria mode and call him a racist. They don't want that information to be made public.
>if you look at the black race, they have done nothing, and their homeland Africa, is such a god-forsaken shit-hole.
They won some Olympic medals. They conned the govt into giving them racist handouts, that's an accomplishment. Not one to be proud of but still. We perhaps should get off the topic before the mods get alarmed.
Oh so we are not allowed to discuss racial matters on this board?
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: WAN]
#21875312 - 06/29/15 07:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
>Oh so we are not allowed to discuss racial matters on this board?
Only if we agree with the pc position on the subject. They will ban people for speaking harshly about blacks. Sometimes we can get away with discussing the issues if we talk about it the right way but admitting blacks are inferior in any way is often an instant ban. The truth of the matter becomes secondary. Like we might be able to say they are better at sports than science but that too will draw heated opposition. There are many taboos.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
WAN
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 1,895
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
#21875325 - 06/29/15 07:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: >Oh so we are not allowed to discuss racial matters on this board?
Only if we agree with the pc position on the subject. They will ban people for speaking harshly about blacks. Sometimes we can get away with discussing the issues if we talk about it the right way but admitting blacks are inferior in any way is often an instant ban. The truth of the matter becomes secondary. Like we might be able to say they are better at sports than science but that too will draw heated opposition. There are many taboos.
Wow, I didn't know that this place is so heavily censored. We are allowed to use racial slurs on this board (in fact, I read that you wrote "chink" a few times, lol) so I figured it was ok to be plain-spoken about racial matters.
Should we move our side-convo to the PMs?
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: WAN]
#21875403 - 06/29/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
|
|
No, no slurs either. But you can say honkey, white trash and a few things like that. If I said chink it must have meant a crack in a wall. You are also not supposed to call people names but they are very laid back on the rule if a liberal breaks it.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
|