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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: qman]
    #21928674 - 07/11/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It is offensive and inconsiderate, but I'll be the first to stand up for your right to be offensive and inconsiderate.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Enlil]
    #21928748 - 07/11/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

azur said:
As for free Negroes in the southern states, about 10% of them owned slaves.



A bit of a misleading statement.  The vast majority of black slave owners were freed men who purchased their wives and children so that they could be free.




We still wait for anything to back up this opinion trying to pass as a fact. You can run but you can't hide.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21929166 - 07/11/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

azur said:
As for free Negroes in the southern states, about 10% of them owned slaves.



A bit of a misleading statement.  The vast majority of black slave owners were freed men who purchased their wives and children so that they could be free.




We still wait for anything to back up this opinion trying to pass as a fact. You can run but you can't hide.




This is common knowledge, dude...


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21929230 - 07/11/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

>This is common knowledge, dude...

OK, enlil jr. Since you are so common maybe you can back it with something since he can't?


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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InvisibleShins
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21929304 - 07/11/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
Listen, it's not up to an individual what is offensive, it's up to the society. And our society is telling you it's offensive. Deal with it. Also you didn't answer the question. What history and heritage does the south have that deserves to be symbolized and revered? Yall keep talking about history but can't cite one specific instance (other than the civil war) of great history originating from the south. Give me an example of when that flag was flown in an altruistic or magnanimous manner.





Fuck society and your collectivist bullshit.

if you're wrong you're wrong no matter how many other wrong people support you.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Enlil]
    #21929350 - 07/11/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's not about being racist or not.  It's about being considerate.

A very large portion of the population find the confederate flag offensive.  If you don't give a fuck who you offend, that's your right.  No one is telling you that you aren't allowed to be offensive.

Fly a Nazi flag for all I care.  Just understand that in doing so, you're sending a message even if you don't intend that message.





Its not my job to cater to all the hordes of brainless half-wits.  If they are offended its because they are ignorant and stipid. Fuck them.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: azur]
    #21929361 - 07/11/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

azur said:






What this shows is something wr have all known for a long time; liberals are misinformed and stupid.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21929373 - 07/11/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
How do you know that yall aren't the sheep being brainwashed into believing there's a relevant purpose for the flag? In with the new out with the old doesn't sound like being brainwashed, it sounds like a logically progressive thing to do. Vs being stuck in the irrelevant past





The psdt is not irrelevant at all, what an extremely unintelligent, arrogant,  and patently luberal thing to say.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21929399 - 07/11/15 03:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

azur said:
As for free Negroes in the southern states, about 10% of them owned slaves.



A bit of a misleading statement.  The vast majority of black slave owners were freed men who purchased their wives and children so that they could be free.




We still wait for anything to back up this opinion trying to pass as a fact. You can run but you can't hide.



I think you missed the point...the post you quoted above was a reply to a post that literally said: 
Quote:

I don't need to cite anything on the Internet. I've visited museums and forts and battlefields throughout the country




If you think I'm going to provide sources to a rebuttal of an unsourced post, you're mistaken.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Enlil]
    #21929432 - 07/11/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You made a claim, I don't care what it was in reply to, and you failed to back your claim. Another unsupported statement. Fail.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Shins]
    #21929746 - 07/11/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Libaurulzzz iz STUPUDZZZ!




This forum is fucking stupid.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
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InvisibleShins
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #21929782 - 07/11/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There are a lot of liberals on it yes.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: Shins]
    #21929819 - 07/11/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
There are a lot of liberals on it yes.




lolz


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Offlinethebitterbuffalo26
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: psyconaught]
    #21930073 - 07/11/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
Still looking for that elusive heritage and history of the deep south...



Really? You're pretty ignorant of american culture if you think no heritage/history came from the south. Slave music originated in the south, which gave way to the blues which gave way to rock and roll. Basically all forms of Americana music originated in the south, blues, country, folk, rock and roll, etc. And thats just music, the tradition of BBQ (arguably the most iconic american cuisine) came from the south as well. Due to the heavy agricultural industry in the area many revolutionary agricultural technologies were also developed there.


Racism and slavery is awful. And yes they have an association with the South. However the assert that thats the only heritage the south has is absolutely absurd.



Neil Young is the man and Lynyrd Skynyrd sucks


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Offlinethebitterbuffalo26
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21930092 - 07/11/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm not all bitter lol


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21931809 - 07/12/15 01:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21931941 - 07/12/15 02:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

thebitterbuffalo26 said:
Still looking for that elusive heritage and history of the deep south...



Really? You're pretty ignorant of american culture if you think no heritage/history came from the south. Slave music originated in the south, which gave way to the blues which gave way to rock and roll. Basically all forms of Americana music originated in the south, blues, country, folk, rock and roll, etc. And thats just music, the tradition of BBQ (arguably the most iconic american cuisine) came from the south as well. Due to the heavy agricultural industry in the area many revolutionary agricultural technologies were also developed there.


Racism and slavery is awful. And yes they have an association with the South. However the assert that thats the only heritage the south has is absolutely absurd.



Neil Young is the man and Lynyrd Skynyrd suckskicks ass also



fixed it for you! :grin:


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Offlinethebitterbuffalo26
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: psyconaught]
    #21932869 - 07/12/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I agree I was a little out of control on some of this stuff, of course the south has heritage and history. I'm born and raised in Texas and graduated from an SEC university so... I'm not from Alabama but I have a little street cred; I'm not a Yankee. I know the people that fly this flag, I've seen them my whole life and I KNOW HOW THEY IDENTIFY. I also am familiar with southern conservatism, and I have to deal with that a lot more than the rebel flag. I also understand how the notion of a rebel is romantic, like being a pirate flying the jolly Roger, or how robin hood is a noble idea. I get that. I get how you don't want anyone to tell you what to do (a vestige of the war) but do you get why and how people might find it offensive? It blows my mind how many people on a psychedelic based forum are so far from the values psychedelics represent. When I take psychedelics I feel like we are all connected, that as a society can overcome our problems, and how much we can relate to each other. WE CAN PROBABLY ALL AGREE THE REBEL FLAG DOESN'T REPRESENT ANY OF THAT SENTIMENT. I sure don't trip out and wake up the next morning thinking fuck everybody else but my kind. Getting back to my original point though, which still hasn't been addressed: WHEN HAD THE CONFEDERATE FLAG BEEN FLOWN IN A ALTRUISTIC OR MAGNANIMOUS MANNER? We can easily cite instances of the American flag representing these notions without even getting on Google.


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Offlinethebitterbuffalo26
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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26]
    #21932877 - 07/12/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I know some of the cherokees flew the flag for a pretty good reason, but I don't think southerners identify with their cause to much


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Re: Latest attempt to ban confederate flag [Re: thebitterbuffalo26] * 1
    #21932899 - 07/12/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies.


MYTH  -   The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT  -   Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

MYTH  -   Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT  -   Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, andconsiderably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And duringthe fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT  -   NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

FACT  -   Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".

FACT  -   A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the "Stars & Bars". The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

FACT  -   The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

MYTH  -   The United States Flag represented freedom.

FACT  -   No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

MYTH  -   Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

FACT  -   While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

MYTH  -   The South revered slavery.

FACT  -   A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

FACT  -   Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

MYTH  -   Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

FACT  -   Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

FACT  -   Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE - NOT HATE.

MYTH  -   The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

FACT  -   This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

The SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.


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