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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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the sixth mass extinction is officially here 1
#21832058 - 06/20/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
There is no longer any doubt: we are entering a mass extinction that threatens humanity’s existence.
That’s the conclusion of a new study by a group of scientists including Paul Ehrlich, the Bing Professor of Population Studies in biology and a senior fellow at the Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment. Ehrlich and his co-authors call for fast action to conserve threatened species, populations and habitat, but warn that the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
“[The study] shows without any significant doubt that we are now entering the sixth great mass extinction event,” Ehrlich said.
Although most well known for his positions on human population, Ehrlich has done extensive work on extinctions going back to his 1981 book, Extinction: The Causes and Consequences of the Disappearance of Species. He has long tied his work on coevolution, on racial, gender and economic justice, and on nuclear winter with the issue of wildlife populations and species loss.
According to the study, there is general agreement among scientists that extinction rates have reached levels unparalleled since the dinosaurs died out 66 million years ago. However, some have challenged the theory, believing earlier estimates rested on assumptions that overestimated the crisis.
The new study, published (open-access) in the journal Science Advances, shows that even with extremely conservative estimates, species are disappearing up to about 100 times faster than the normal rate between mass extinctions, known as the background rate.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-sixth-mass-extinction-is-here-say-stanford-researchers
Not that it's really news, but I thought I'd share. Anyone care to comment?
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MinnesnowtaNice
FriendofHagrid


Registered: 09/18/13
Posts: 1,316
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#21832065 - 06/20/15 11:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- we are all thought forms in a cloud of synchronistic events.
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#21833190 - 06/20/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's probably news to many people. But many scientists have long suspected that we are in the midst of a mass extinction event and that humans are mostly to blame. So this new study is just more evidence for that theory.
Erhlich I think has been trying to raise awareness.
If the more extreme doomsday predictions turn out to be true it's going to be a tough pill for all of humanity to swallow. Personally, I have no reason to doubt we're causing mass extinction. But current solutions to the issue are not fun. How difficult would it be to not only stop the exponential growth of humanity, but reverse it? Perhaps Homo sapiens' survival chances would be better off by trying to get off this planet.
This is all just conjecture. Even though I have no reason to doubt the human caused mass extinction it doesn't mean I buy into it wholesale either. But it's much more interesting to think about than Kim Kardashian and Kanye West.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Hippocampus] 1
#21833743 - 06/20/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Gene Wilder will save us.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: circastes]
#21833753 - 06/20/15 08:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are still a few hippies left in the remote wilderness.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: OrgoneConclusion] 1
#21834052 - 06/20/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I heard they're being poached for their crystals.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#21834370 - 06/20/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Not that it's really news, but I thought I'd share. Anyone care to comment?
No it's not news as it's been going on for many decades. Primarily due to human encroachment rather than CO2 emissions. I've commented several times that for the last 10 years, since about the time CO2 became an issue (whether coincidence or not I don't know) the mainstream media has been virtually silent on the topic.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz] 2
#21834403 - 06/20/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: No it's not news as it's been going on for many decades. Primarily due to human encroachment rather than CO2 emissions. I've commented several times that for the last 10 years, since about the time CO2 became an issue (whether coincidence or not I don't know) the mainstream media has been virtually silent on the topic.
Yeah, great point. It does seem that whatever the mainstream media covers as far as environmental issues inevitably has to do with climate change, when there are other real ecological threats facing our planet which are decidedly more multifaceted than that. I'm sure no one will see anything of this on MSNBC, CNN or Fox. I guess the public feeds on what is put on its plate.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#21834644 - 06/20/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's 'cause it hasn't been politicized. If the issue could somehow be split down party lines it would be much more interesting. But this time could the conservatives support legislation to curb mass extinction and the liberals be the deniers?
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#21835570 - 06/21/15 05:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nothing to worry about. The world has been about to end all my life. I'm completely immune to extinction.
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usulpsychonaut


Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 2,814
Loc: Northland, New Zealand.
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#21835577 - 06/21/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Seriously man, climate change recently killed a woman's dog.
Or perhaps climate change is killing science.
Edited by usulpsychonaut (06/21/15 06:06 AM)
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#24444664 - 06/29/17 01:39 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Learned about this about 5, 6 years ago and changed my lifestyle 100%.
I was already very non materialistic, but I went much, much further since. It's been a beautiful journey!
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#24444699 - 06/29/17 01:54 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Global wildlife populations have fallen by 58% since 1970, a report says.
The Living Planet assessment, by the Zoological Society of London (ZSL) and WWF, suggests that if the trend continues that decline could reach two-thirds among vertebrates by 2020.
The figures suggest that animals living in lakes, rivers and wetlands are suffering the biggest losses.
Human activity, including habitat loss, wildlife trade, pollution and climate change contributed to the declines.
Dr Mike Barrett. head of science and policy at WWF, said: "It's pretty clear under 'business as usual' we will see continued declines in these wildlife populations. But I think now we've reached a point where there isn't really any excuse to let this carry on.
"We know what the causes are and we know the scale of the impact that humans are having on nature and on wildlife populations - it really is now down to us to act."
...
The researchers conclude that vertebrate populations are declining by an average of 2% each year, and warn that if nothing is done, wildlife populations could fall by 67% (below 1970 levels) by the end of the decade.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-37775622
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#24444763 - 06/29/17 02:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Einstein
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
once in a lifetime said: "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
Einstein
I doubt he said this. Do you have a solid source other than a parroting on a vegetarian website?
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#24444852 - 06/29/17 02:58 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Looks like they sourced it here.
https://ivu.org/history/northam20a/einstein.html
Including the phrase, funnily enough, 'Now there is a solid source for the quote'
It may be a different -
Yes. The site says it is probably not correct.
'Most beneficially affect" etc. was correct.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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The main reason I did not believe the quote is, that even though a physicist, Einstein was extremely unlikely to completely misunderstand evolution.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#24444946 - 06/29/17 03:23 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's in the past.
So you play backgammon still? That's very cool that you played for high stakes. I love that game.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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https://www.wired.com/1994/12/expert-backgammon/
This was my program written in the 90s. My program trounced IBMs in the World Computer Cup (1992?) They had a full team running on a powerful minicomputer. There was just me running on a lowly 386 PC. Beat them 7-2.
I have no mention in the AI hall of fame.

One year I made it into the top 20 in the world.
Ands no, I haven't played in quite a long time. Burned out. Almost all big money backgammon relationships end badly.
--------------------
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#24445004 - 06/29/17 03:45 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can understand..
It's a beautiful game though.
Gun Hansen switched careers. Bill Robertie played chess, as well as backgammon.
I won't say maybe - if enough people wanted to revive it, popularity speaking, I know it could make a comeback.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Hah, I didn't click your link 'til just now 
Bill Robertie jumps out at me
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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My program revealed so many flaws in his books 'Advanced backgammon 1 & II' that he was forced to reissue them years later with major corrections.
--------------------
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#24445063 - 06/29/17 04:05 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Played a ton against GNU... One of the best practices is to play a ton against a great computer...
My favorite game is poker; I also love Starcraft and chess.. My best result at chess was beating an international master, and drawing twice.
Just for the enjoyment of it.. Studied for about a decade with no purpose other than enjoyment, and because I love the game.
I would play the computer Fritz 6 against various other engines when I was 14 - blitz matches and longer ones...
All very much fun - fast games I would watch before going to sleep, the longer ones -- would set it for 5 hours or such -- and watch when I came home from school.
Backgammon I love as much as any other..
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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PlantManBee
undifferentiated



Registered: 11/17/16
Posts: 360
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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not "finally here", been here and getting more noticeable daily. The passenger pigeon, Ivory Billed Woodpecker...san Marcos gambusia locally for me. christ, the list would take weeks to compile if we wanted that heartbreak.
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: PlantManBee]
#24445099 - 06/29/17 04:18 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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; p
I saw a post a few years back. . . talking about if humanity drove 1 species to extinction. . .
It's a lot more than just 1. . .
I would say, don't be depressed though - it only helps the Russians.
Kind of a half-joke there but -- happiness helps, it's a good thing -
Its important to spread the word and also fro all we can -
Every thing we do to lower our impact on the environment, is important. . .
The small things matter a lot, because they add up over time.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#24445212 - 06/29/17 05:03 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: My program revealed so many flaws in his books 'Advanced backgammon 1 & II' that he was forced to reissue them years later with major corrections.
if you're living in the past, you're already extinct
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: demiu5]
#24445239 - 06/29/17 05:09 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eep! Orgone attained Nirvana!
hehe
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Orgoneeeeee
Let's play backgammon but with checker pieces.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Humans use almost all of the good land which accounts for about 45% of the Earth's surface. The rest is swamps, deserts and terrain that's too rough to grade easily. If someone can find water underground they'll grow crops in the desert. Swamps can be drained but at some point humans get collectively guilty about all the species they've mowing down with the trees and find it in their hearts or wallets that the expense of draining those dirty swamps doesn't make sense.
Rough guess would be that we should have killed off or enslaved 45% of large land animal species by now.
If we didn't use 40% of that land for farming and it was untouched by humans many of those extinct species would still be around. That same logic doesn't apply to global warming even assuming it's predictive accuracy is true. It has everything to do with humans using up all the good land and nothing to do with a minor increase in temperatures that would fall within normal variances absent the anthropomorphic. Even in most wilderness areas people are crawing around all over the place due to some leisurely reason.
Global warming is popular because it allows one to feel guilty about it without seeing the actual reason for the destruction that's happening. It seems to be a mixture of willful ignorance and repressed Cartesian Anxiety due to a sense of responsibility that can't be fixed with a carbon tax.
We need to quit using the land. There are certainly promising technologies that could move farming underground and into high rises but if successful it would also represent breaking the previous barrier of limited farming space.
It's interesting to note that the type of steam punk agricultural society that created all that farmland and children is also responsible in a way for the population growth leveling out in advanced nations. This line of logic is the only hope I can see for the Earth's biodiversity. I'm pessimistic about it but I can see how it would work. With unlimited energy there's nothing we couldn't do but we would have to use that energy responsibly.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
Posts: 1,859
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz] 3
#24446203 - 06/30/17 01:41 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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What the human species is doing is bizarre, it's nothing else.
It's strange.
We don't need any of this. ANY of it. Mindless progress is a setback.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: beforethedawn]
#24446340 - 06/30/17 04:48 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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once in a lifetime
sun child



Registered: 02/12/15
Posts: 1,807
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: chibiabos]
#24447691 - 06/30/17 05:13 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is a great one, chibiabos.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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chibiabos
Cosmic Pond Scum



Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 4,180
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
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It's funny, because we ended a geological epoch and might obliterate our civilization through sheer apathy.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: chibiabos]
#24448009 - 06/30/17 07:33 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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KT round 2
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: demiu5]
#24465459 - 07/07/17 03:25 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asiapacific/borneo-s-orangutans-in-alarming-decline-study-9014338
"The biggest threat to orangutans, one of only two great ape species found in Asia today, are habitat loss due to farming and climate change, and their killing for food or in conflict with humans. Some 2,500 orangutans are killed in Borneo every year, the researchers said."
If there's anything to climate change, by the time it's hot enough to kill orangutans there won't be any left. Land currently marked for farming palm oil will reduce the current population by another 10%. Orangutan population is down 25% from 10 years ago.
Too many fucking people. I remember someone saying we could fit everyone on Earth in Texas. Maybe we should do that? Yea, like that will work. I think I mentioned 40% of the world surface is used for farming. When you account for buildings, roads and other infrastructure it's much worse. Here's a map that includes all human used areas. Looks like about 60% to me. Take out the deserts and we're down to about 25% wilderness. Take out the tundra and we're basically down to the Amazon.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz]
#24466178 - 07/07/17 08:08 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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over all (despite the low birth rate in some places) civilzed humans are incapable of controlling their birth rate.
In the hunter gatherer stage, nature at large put limits on the birth rate.
With civilization ( the 1st step usually being agriculture) humans arrogantly assume they can control nature and are separate from nature. But the human species is not self regulating as regards birth rate (although some species are), (even with birth control pills).
We are more like some diseases, viruses, or cancer; all of which are apt metaphors for our effect on the ecosystems of the planet.
I think Edward O wilson has been concerned and writing about this for years.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#24466444 - 07/07/17 10:24 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mother Earth, I'm sure, wishes she could have capped us in the year 1 AD. At that time the world's population was approximately 231 million. Augustus Caesar was Emperor of Rome. Jesus Christ was born in a manger. China continued to be dominated by the Han Dynasty. The estimated population of New Zealand was zero. John the Baptist preached in the wilderness. God gave us Ovid.
Quote:
At this time North and South America were sparsely populated, as was Asia Pacific. The estimated population of New Zealand was zero. Southern Asia, Northern Africa, China and Southern Europe (parts of the same land mass) had relatively high populations. Colder Northern latitudes tended to have lower populations.
The territories that now encompass the Ganges, Tigris, Yangtze, Nile and Po rivers were the most populous.
www.worldmapper.org/
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#24467305 - 07/08/17 09:53 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Mother Earth, I'm sure, wishes ....
if she had wishes ... yes
I would certainly find the planet more attractive without most of what humans have done.
In some places people still live in harmony with nature, beyond the hunter gatherer stage. Some more rural, traditional Japanese villages, among others. Also possibly the amish to some degree.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#24467439 - 07/08/17 10:43 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Very true. I guess another example would be the former Tibet. They were quite isolated, self-sufficient, non-expansionist and sustainable. Left to their own devices they'd still be that way.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#24467511 - 07/08/17 11:20 AM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: over all (despite the low birth rate in some places) civilzed humans are incapable of controlling their birth rate.
In the hunter gatherer stage, nature at large put limits on the birth rate.
With civilization ( the 1st step usually being agriculture) humans arrogantly assume they can control nature and are separate from nature. But the human species is not self regulating as regards birth rate (although some species are), (even with birth control pills).
We are more like some diseases, viruses, or cancer; all of which are apt metaphors for our effect on the ecosystems of the planet.
I think Edward O wilson has been concerned and writing about this for years.
Not with birth control alone perhaps, although I think monotheism might have something to do with that, but Western(ized) nations do regulate their birth rate. So much so that without immigration the population declines. Perhaps that is a natural response to being educated and having access to birth control.
One previous comment lamented that none of this is necessary. Nothing is necessary. I also con't care for the disease/virus analogy although there is some truth to it. I feel there's an emotional context to such ideas that can make it difficult to, at least, explore possible solutions. For instance, anthropomorphic CO2 may or may not be pushing the world to disaster but all that energy is part of the reason humans are able to achieve a level of civilization that provides a reasonable education and free/cheap access to birth control. People when educated do have a desire to regulate their numbers. That is not something a virus can achieve.
It could be regrettable that such a silver lining comes only after the world population has reached 7.5 billion and that the incursion of energy/technology has happened in poor countries without the subsequent stability and educational infrastructure necessary to support a self regulating environment, thus also being responsible for the continue population boom in some parts of the world. If the world was entirely Westernized (whether that's an appealing idea or not) the population would begin to decline and eventually the majority of the surface could be returned to a state of wilderness consensually.
If/when fusion becomes a reality it will be in part thanks to the abundance of energy from other sources. I regret that such small portions of the worlds wealth has been dedicated to funding such research. It should be a priority. Without fusion or some other new technology the majority of the worlds energy will continue to come from fossil fuels and fission.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz] 1
#24467638 - 07/08/17 12:23 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I get that you, Rhaz, don't like the analogy, and that you seem to know more details about population than I do, but the analogy becomes more apt when you consider other factors than just population growth - namely the unprecedented extinctions presently going on with loss of genetic diversity, and pollution of all sorts (nuclear, plastic, chemical, as well as pharmaceutical drugs in drinking water and fish, etc.) world wide, and the coming world wide water crisis, the ticking nuclear clock, fields of land mines still maiming people, hundreds nay thousands of years of continual war, the horrible quality of life in vast areas of the big cities as well as smog that kills folks in all areas of many mega cities and forces them to remain indoors, the death of the coral reefs and acidification of the oceans .... as well as declining nutrition, over fishing, slaughter of the whales, orbiting junk in space, and of course the burning of the worlds rainforests etc. -- then the analogy to something with an unpleasant association, that gets out of control, seems an appropriate balance to the usual human hubris. In my view we are well past the point of reversing the present disastrous trends.
I expect that in the future events like happened in Flint Michigan with the water supply poisoning people, and mad cow disease killing people, from feeding vegetarian animals meat (from their own species even!) will not be atypical.
Even in the Western nations, where you feel there is better education, political events for example, would seem, to show that human reason is rather powerless, compared to other forces at work, that are anything but benign.
All great empires in the past have fallen. (Usually at least partly from overexploiting available resources as well as over compelxity) Now in one sense one might say there is a world wide technological empire. I expect it to implode as all others have done. To expect otherwise seems to me to ignore the obvious, or as the cliche says to be "drinking the cool aid".
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#24467743 - 07/08/17 01:29 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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I thought I saw an error in your assessment that humans can't control their population so I pointed it out. That doesn't mean I'm optimistic about the situation.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz]
#24470385 - 07/09/17 02:50 PM (6 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I thought I saw an error in your assessment that humans can't control their population so I pointed it out. That doesn't mean I'm optimistic about the situation.
indeed
I expect so many of us here don't watch TV that we overlook its vast influence on Americans, it could be characterized in Orwellian or conspiracy terms, or simply as mental pollution - but regardless of how we label it, I think American TV may have become a major negative force upon the planet. The irony of course is that it is a self administered form of mind numbing, without even the limited advantages of alcohol.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26375574 - 12/11/19 05:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A Million Species in Danger
by Roni Dengler Discover Magazine January/Feburary 2020
One millions species face extinction, more than ever before in human history, according to a U.N. report released in May.
And humanity is responsible.
The Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services (IPBES) based the assessment of some 15,000 sources that consider the causes and consequences of environmental changes over the past 50 years.
The findings are stark. The authors found that about 25 percent of the world's plants and animals are vulnerable to extinction. These include over a third of marine mammals and more than 40 percent of amphibians. Even domesticated animals are at risk: Over 9 percent of domesticated mammal breeds used for food and agriculture already may have been lost.
The rapid decline of the natural world endangers global food security and quality of life. For instance, an estimated 4 billion people rely on natural medicines, produced by the vanishing species, for their health care. And losses of species that pollinate plants would threaten up to $577 billion in crops each year.
The researchers identified five drivers responsible for the grim news. At the top of that list is land- and sea-use change: the conversion of ecosystems to agriculture, aquaculture and other human developments. It's followed by the direct exploitation of organisms (overharvesting, logging, hunting and fishing) and climate change, including rising sea levels and increasing extreme-weather events, wildfires, floods and droughts. The final culprits are pollution -- especially plastics -- and the spread of invasive species, non-native organisms that can displace or kill native plants and animals.
That authors say only "transformative change" -- such as a new global approach toward consumption and waste -- could turn the tables. Whether that's possible is an open question.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Yellow Pants


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26375655 - 12/11/19 05:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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A firm redirection towards the idealism of environmentalism is in order. Problem is that it seems that it’s not all exactly clear what is environmentally friendly and what is not. Some things are obvious which ought to be tackled outright but I get that feel we’re in the dark regarding other things. For example I can’t even tell whether animal agriculture is bad or not. Rice takes a hella amount of water to produce as does Beef but cow crap is good fertilizer for crop rotations.
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RJ Tubs 202


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26376281 - 12/11/19 11:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
For example I can’t even tell whether animal agriculture is bad or not.
It's often said that it takes 16 pounds of grain to raise one pound of beef, which is interesting... Although rice tolerates submergence, it's not an aquatic species. The one and only reason rice is flooded by farmers is for arresting weed growth. Some good trivia for your next cocktail party!
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26376376 - 12/12/19 01:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why do you think all of the elites of the world are investing big in space?
"Professor Stephen Hawking thinks the human species will have to populate a new planet within 100 years if it is to survive," the BBC said in a statement posted online. "With climate change, overdue asteroid strikes, epidemics and population growth, our own planet is increasingly precarious."
While Hawking holds fast to his theory, he says there is still hope if humans can find a way to colonize another planet.
“We must also continue to go into space for the future of humanity,” Hawking said during a 2016 speech at Britain’s Oxford University Union.
“Although the chance of a disaster on planet Earth in a given year may be quite low, it adds up over time, becoming a near certainty in the next thousand or ten thousand years..
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/12/19 01:11 AM)
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26376382 - 12/12/19 01:13 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26376387 - 12/12/19 01:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree The people in power want business to continue as usual. At the same time, these people know a lot of things we don't.
Things could potentially get very out of control very fast is some severe crisis happened.
DHS did a study a few years back and found if the power grid ever went out for the long term, 90% of our population would be dead within a year.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26376392 - 12/12/19 01:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
Ticks will kill the host if allowed to. Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26376395 - 12/12/19 01:26 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Very true. I guess another example would be the former Tibet. They were quite isolated, self-sufficient, non-expansionist and sustainable. Left to their own devices they'd still be that way.
Aboriginal people here had maintained population for 50000y plus. Social structures and rules capped possible expansion.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26376480 - 12/12/19 03:28 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
Ticks will kill the host if allowed to. Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.
Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.
The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.
Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26376488 - 12/12/19 03:35 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"World war 3 is just around the corner"
World war 3 has been just around the corner since about 10 minutes after world war 2 ended.
I wonder how many gas masks are sold every year.
The thing with a gas mask is, people in the military will tell you this. They are only designed to keep you alive long enough to complete your mission.
The whole prepper mentality is a trap. It lines the pockets of people who manufacture that shit. Y2K sure was great for business
Ultimately if something really bad happens there wont be much you can do about it, besides go live in the woods. Its good to be prepared but that's no way to live
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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pineninja
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26376496 - 12/12/19 03:54 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
Ticks will kill the host if allowed to. Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.
Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.
The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.
Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.
I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path. I feel like dying.
Look around.
Is this sustainable. Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.
These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?
The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.
As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this" Imho
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
Edited by pineninja (12/12/19 04:14 AM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26377091 - 12/12/19 12:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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IMO the idea that elites will survive, or that humans can escape to another planet, moon, or space station, is mistaken, because it fails to understand (1) just how interconnected everything in the ecosystem is, and (2) if there is no change in human behavior/consciousness it will make no difference, even if they do "set up shop" somewhere else for a while. In fact this attitude that one can mess up whatever one wants, and then move on, is just another aspect of the selfishness, and lack of respect for anything other than oneself, & one's immediate family and circle, that has caused the destruction of the planet for the quality for human life as we have known it. Native peoples, especially before civilization, all respected nature and knew they were part of it. I am not smarter than Hawking, but he apparently never spent much time in the country as a kid. Which is probably true of a lot of the "big heads", and they probably never tripped or meditated either. Their fancy ideas of escape, show their one sided intellectual and arrogant ideas to be just that.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#26377210 - 12/12/19 01:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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But these people ARE wealthy enough to make it work.
All they would need to do is basically build another international space station except on mars, the moon or some far off earth like planet. Stock it with enough supplies to last a small amount of people a number of life times.
Jeff Bezos is working on pay per flight trips to space
"Jeff Bezos is an Internet entrepreneur and also the founder of Blue Origin. The company is known for its work on New Shepard — a suborbital space rocket that includes a crew capsule for future paying passengers. New Shepard made a world-first first-stage rocket landing on land in 2015."
Elon Musk, love him of hate him invests huge money in aerospace.
"Elon Musk is the founder, CEO and lead designer at Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX), where he oversees the development and manufacturing of advanced rockets and spacecraft for missions to and beyond Earth orbit. Founded in 2002, SpaceX’s mission is to enable humans to become a spacefaring civilization..."
Even the Chinese government, they are doing so well financially that they are finding all sorts of things to invest that money in.(Isn't it amazing what you can do when you don't spend more than half your budget of pointless foreign wars)
Chinese Space Program "The space program of the People's Republic of China is directed by the China National Space Administration (CNSA). Its technological roots can be traced back to the late 1950s, when China began a ballistic missile program in response to perceived American (and, later, Soviet) threats. However, the first Chinese crewed space program only began several decades later, when an accelerated program of technological development culminated in Yang Liwei's successful 2003 flight aboard Shenzhou 5. This achievement made China the third country to independently send humans into space. Plans currently include a permanent Chinese space station in 2020 and crewed expeditions to the Moon."
Just look at how Computer science has evolved in only the last 20 years.
Im not old, but I remember what it was like to have dial up. 20 years later the average person walks around with a mini super computer in their pocket.
I forgot whats its called....... But they say that every 1-2 years the amount of circuitry you can fit in 1 small space doubles.
The technology will certainly get there.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/12/19 01:45 PM)
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle] 1
#26377222 - 12/12/19 01:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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*Crazy talk below
The new technology may allow space travel from the comfort of your couch.
There are VR shops opening here...some kids would prefer to keep the visors on..with this layer becoming polluted and stagnet.
What seems ridiculous now may well not be soon enough.
Imagine a new vr universe beggining again as this one becomes untenable.
Imagine that we may have done it before.
Technological singularity. Environmental collapse. Simulated reality. Coincidentally perhaps.
Exquisite timing. Freedom abounds. Death denying. Artificial surrounds.
Colliding juxtapositions. Inevitably unseen. Pointless Seditions. Slate clean.
Layered convergance. Fields dissolved. New emergence. Vacuum resolved.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26377260 - 12/12/19 01:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The future is now.
Many of these obscure Sci-fi stories from decades ago are slowly coming true.
None more than 1984
The minority report and Terminator are my favorites.
The stuff with the facial recognition, the self driving cars, Pre-crime, the AI in peoples homes. It's all happening
Same thing with terminator, One of the biggest sectors of U.S military investment is drones.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/12/19 01:58 PM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26377331 - 12/12/19 02:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I disagree
the few folks in the space station are dependent on thousands on the ground they have only been up there a short while besides bone loss what else is happening to them? they have never survived a solar storm they have never gone into deep space
2) if there is no change in human behavior/consciousness it will make no difference, even if some do "set up shop" somewhere else for a while. The same egotistical factors will screw it all up before long.
The folks in the space station are constantly being watched. They are very High IQ They are extraordinarily healthy, & relatively young they are trained to be in control of their emotions they are types that are excited by doing research in conditions most folks would find intolerable their lives are anything but representative of 'normal' human interactions
We do not understand our own biology, we have only just discovered, the micro biome, that 'junk DNA' has a lot of viral coding in it. The brain, cancer, dreams - the list of what we don't understand is far greater than what we do. But finding more and more interdependencies would not be surprising.
A little research on the health statistics of Americans will show, leaving earth is not a viable option for the vast majority. Same for the world's poor. And the wealthy are not trained astronauts either.
Personally the notion that living in a can, whether it is a space station, cave on the moon, or quonset hut on mars, or was a submarine in WWll, and calling it some sort of 'quality of life' and the next 'chapter in the glorious saga of humanity's triumph' seems insane.
I have no problem accepting that humans have fucked up royally, and will continue to do so until they are gone, and some other species gets the limelight, on earth for a relatively short while, and then again another, and so on. I have no problem accepting that there are no immortal souls, and all phenomenon are impermanent, and that meaning is a mental construct, in a brain that runs an approximate simulation of 'reality', for a 'self' that is contingent, unstable, impermanent, and totally interdependent. For anyone that needs hope, however the Sci-Fi story of how: "humans migrated from earth and populated the galaxy", makes for good entertainment. IMO.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


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Posts: 9,819
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#26377350 - 12/12/19 02:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said: IMO the idea that elites will survive, or that humans can escape to another planet, moon, or space station, is mistaken, because it fails to understand (1) just how interconnected everything in the ecosystem is, and (2) if there is no change in human behavior/consciousness it will make no difference, even if they do "set up shop" somewhere else for a while. In fact this attitude that one can mess up whatever one wants, and then move on, is just another aspect of the selfishness, and lack of respect for anything other than oneself, & one's immediate family and circle, that has caused the destruction of the planet for the quality for human life as we have known it. Native peoples, especially before civilization, all respected nature and knew they were part of it. I am not smarter than Hawking, but he apparently never spent much time in the country as a kid. Which is probably true of a lot of the "big heads", and they probably never tripped or meditated either. Their fancy ideas of escape, show their one sided intellectual and arrogant ideas to be just that.
This is quite correct. For one thing, the elites are every much a part of this game as anyone else, regardless of how much they or anyone else may differ.
Secondly, it is not at all clear that people can live satisfactorily on the Moon or Mars at all, not to mention the fact that the technology is still not there to attempt to do it. Would you want to live in a featureless wasteland in which you could never go outside and feel the breeze or the sun on your skin? How do we even know we can live in very different gravitational fields? Would we be able to remain sane in colonies on the Moon and Mars, knowing that Earth, and billions of its inhabitants, were dead? Etc., etc. No one really thinks through this stuff.
And laughingdog is quite right that this whole notion that we can spread our cancers to other places completely ignores the overwhelming interconnectedness of life on Earth. We evolved to be here and only here; probably, living on another planet would run up against a host of problems no one foresaw, including, and perhaps especially, mental health. There are hundreds of issues.
No, we had better get used to the idea of waking up or going down with the ship, because civilization very probably cannot be rebuilt on Mars. Where will all the resources come from? The factories? The mines? The labor? And of course, the technology even to try has not been created!
People seem to forget that the vast number of technologies that will have to be created for space migration simply do not exist. It's not some trivial matter to spend hundreds of billions on them, either! This is not an easy, short-term thing.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26377383 - 12/12/19 02:36 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Where will all the resources come from? The factories? The mines? The labor? And of course, the technology even to try has not been created!"
AI, robots, droids?
There are certainly a lot of things we have yet to understand about space because governments largely stopped investing in it during the cold war.
"living on another planet would run up against a host of problems no one foresaw, including, and perhaps especially, mental health. There are hundreds of issues."
But what if we were able to locate an "Earth like planet" For how enormous the universe its, wouldn't it be highly likely that there was a similar planet? Somewhere?
There really is a lot of amazing aerospace technology that is being created right now.
Hypersonic glide vehicles are the next generation ICBM. Many governments have re entered pissing contests with one another. Space is one of those frontiers.
I bet its the chinese that are the first to do anything with it. 1. they have the most abundant labor force in the world 2. Xi Jinping has a hard on for global domination 3. The Chinese don't have a great human right record and I wouldn't put it past them to just strap people into rockets, shoot them into space and see what happens.
"SPACE FORCE"
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26377393 - 12/12/19 02:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not to mention the Chinese are pros at espionage and stealing other peoples technology.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26377410 - 12/12/19 02:46 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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How many people are you going to able to fit on this rocket/rockets? Could you just dig a deep hole here and fit more?
Or are you expecting teleporters as well.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26377423 - 12/12/19 02:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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It might not be perfected for 100 years, or even 200 years.
Maybe we will all be destroyed tomorrow by Soviet era nukes
Who knows.
But the potential is there if the right interests are behind it.
What if we find out mars is rich in something like Platinum, you better believe somebody would find a way to extract it.
Unlimited growth can't happen on a planet with a finite amount of resources.
A lot of technology is very dependent on rare earth metals.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/12/19 02:56 PM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26377427 - 12/12/19 02:57 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: How many people are you going to able to fit on this rocket/rockets? Could you just dig a deep hole here and fit more?
Or are you expecting teleporters as well.
Exactly
"For anyone that needs hope, ..." Seems you feel you need hope ... but
Buckomcdoogle how many people that you know including yourself, do you think will escape, the mess we have here, by going into space? And if so actually enjoying it?
Seems to me the whole notion is just PR. Essentially what is a prison sentence, is being advertised and sold as an adventure of great importance. What a great joke & con, better & bigger, than selling the Brooklyn Bridge!
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#26377432 - 12/12/19 02:58 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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None, I am a peasant, along with everyone I know
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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roppongikitkat
Stranger
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26377450 - 12/12/19 03:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think david attenborough just recently announced that he believes its already too late for us.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: roppongikitkat]
#26377457 - 12/12/19 03:08 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe it is... Or maybe life will find a way.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26377707 - 12/12/19 05:24 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Amusingly it seems many of the more enlightened folks, have little interest in reproducing themselves, post enlightenment. Seems they often attempt to teach many who have already had, what is perhaps the misfortune, to have been born. Which might perhaps simply mean metaphorically: those who assume they 'have' a separate existence.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26381194 - 12/14/19 11:52 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
For example I can’t even tell whether animal agriculture is bad or not.
It's often said that it takes 16 pounds of grain to raise one pound of beef, which is interesting... Although rice tolerates submergence, it's not an aquatic species. The one and only reason rice is flooded by farmers is for arresting weed growth. Some good trivia for your next cocktail party!
I’m pretty sure beef and cow dairy is horrendous given the amount of grain and water needed to feed them. Inefficient. I also like to think we could fertilize without cow manure as there’s plenty of crap to go around. Aquaculture is a tricky one but I think it’s safe to say that overfishing large fish is the worst as it takes the most emmisions to do it while wrecking the numbers of other fish that weren’t being fished for because of the way large fish are caught.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#26381458 - 12/14/19 02:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ultimately our entire existence is so infinitesimally small in the grand scheme of things.
The universe is indifferent
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle] 1
#26381506 - 12/14/19 03:06 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok but, are you?
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26381609 - 12/14/19 04:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would guess most are indifferent. Currently I’d toss myself into that category as well. It’s high difficulty to drastically change behaviors without any direct and critical motivation. We’re basically supposed to buy a story that promises nightmares if we don’t change our ways. Sure my head agrees with the environmental reports but everything else in my being is going a different direction with a lot of momentum.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26381625 - 12/14/19 04:16 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're in a 4 story apartment on the top floor. It's on fire and all exits are blocked. Your only option is to break the window and jump. What do you do?
You have motivations at constant play, so automatic are these that its easy to disregard them.
It feels good to disattach from made up systems of importance...but at the end of the day we all strive to survive.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26381689 - 12/14/19 04:37 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: You're in a 4 story apartment on the top floor. It's on fire and all exits are blocked. Your only option is to break the window and jump. What do you do?
You have motivations at constant play, so automatic are these that its easy to disregard them.
It feels good to disattach from made up systems of importance...but at the end of the day we all strive to survive.
It’s more like you’re on the top floor of a 4 story building and you read online that a fire started downstairs and over time may block the exits leading to a very desperate situation. You cannot see or detect the fire. Everything seems to be working normally. You also read online that drinking 1 cup less water per day may reduce the spread of the fire by .1 %. Meanwhile you overcooked the steak and your guests will be arriving soon.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants] 1
#26381886 - 12/14/19 06:35 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent, but if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” ― Stanley Kubrick
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26381896 - 12/14/19 06:42 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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As opposite as they might seem Existentialism and Nihilism go hand and hand. We're all here, and for the most part, most things are out of our control.
At the same time the things we choose to do, are just as important as the things we choose not to do.
I think kids are a great example of that. You could say something to a kid that might seem insignifigant, but it might stick in their head and completely alter the course of how that young person lives their life.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Yellow Pants


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26383157 - 12/15/19 11:21 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does. So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand. In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism. Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen. Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here. So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.
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RJ Tubs 202


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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26383217 - 12/15/19 11:49 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Buckomcdoogle said:
“The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent, but if we can come to terms with this indifference, then our existence as a species can have genuine meaning. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light.” ― Stanley Kubrick
It's quite interested we'd react with terror to neutrality. It says a lot about ourselves.
Considering humans are as much "the universe" as rocks, benevolence and hostility appear to exist.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26384350 - 12/16/19 12:23 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tbh the neutrality of the universe may be threatening to us so it’s fairly understandable how we might react dramatically. For example a tornado rages impersonally through the neighborhood encouraging strong reactions in people.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26384378 - 12/16/19 01:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just the fear of the unknown. Fear is just one of those things wired into our brains to help us survive. Kind of like anxiety
When it comes down to it human instincts are simple as long as you don't read into it too much.
Eat,gather,fuck,sleep
and most of all stay alive.
They say submarine crews have to overcome the instinctual fear of not breathing.
In the case you need to eject from it in an emergency
When you eject from a submarine you have to release all of the air from your lungs otherwise the pressure change causes the oxygen to expand.
Imagine that, traveling trough pitch black water for 10-20 seconds with no air in your lungs?
Its amazing what we humans are capable of if we can overcome fear.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/16/19 01:18 AM)
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26384403 - 12/16/19 02:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
Ticks will kill the host if allowed to. Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.
Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.
The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.
Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.
I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path. I feel like dying.
Look around.
Is this sustainable. Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.
These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?
The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.
As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this" Imho
I'm having a hard time seeing what point you're attempting to make here...?
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26384410 - 12/16/19 02:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does. So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand. In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism. Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen. Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here. So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.
Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.
You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.
Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.
Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#26384430 - 12/16/19 02:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Existential nihilism "There is no justification for life, but also no reason not to live."
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#26385145 - 12/16/19 01:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does. So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand. In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism. Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen. Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here. So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.
Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.
You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.
Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.
Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.
I quit
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26385161 - 12/16/19 01:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
Ticks will kill the host if allowed to. Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.
Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.
The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.
Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.
I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path. I feel like dying.
Look around.
Is this sustainable. Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.
These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?
The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.
As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this" Imho
I'm having a hard time seeing what point you're attempting to make here...?
You think I am getting upset over a fake threat perpetrated by puppet master who are to smart to sink the ship.
I think you're wrong.
I think it's you and me and we collectively are not smart enough to see.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26385164 - 12/16/19 01:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Please don't. Allow him to say his...be yours.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26385237 - 12/16/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm."
Conclusion does not follow from the premise.
There are many cases of tough or bad guys, dominating others before going down with the ship
Shouldn't be too hard for anybody half awake to come up with one
how about Hitler for starters?
now how hard was that?
How is this even taken seriously?
Just because someone bullies you doesn't mean they're smart.
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
#26385371 - 12/16/19 03:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hitler went out with a bang.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26385488 - 12/16/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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By calling the jerks that run things "elites" the issue is confused. nobody thinks of cops as 'elites'. People who run things are never the smartest, just the bossiest, who hide their true motives. We even have a special class of jokes for lawyers. And the hypocrisy of politicians is why a huge percentage of folks don't bother to vote. The smart guys like Steven Hawkins etc, never have any interest in controlling others. Einstein refused the offer to be Prime Minister of Israel.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26386276 - 12/17/19 01:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does. So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand. In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism. Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen. Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here. So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.
Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.
You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.
Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.
Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.
I quit
Don't quit. This sub is supposed to be critical. I have an academic background and lots of experience so it's hard for me to let small stuff slide, I know I'm annoying AF. I don't intent do come off as a prick but it's like watching someone do push-ups incorrectly then claim they know what they're doing. Philosophy is infinitely more dangerous because you can't SEE what you're doing at the start, necessarily!
You ask great questions and set up great frames. I'll be more conscientious with my posts in the future to not come off like an elitist fuck. Thanks for hanging in .
Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
pineninja said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.
Ticks will kill the host if allowed to. Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.
Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.
The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.
Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.
I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path. I feel like dying.
Look around.
Is this sustainable. Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.
These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?
The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.
As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this" Imho
I'm having a hard time seeing what point you're attempting to make here...?
You think I am getting upset over a fake threat perpetrated by puppet master who are to smart to sink the ship.
I think you're wrong.
I think it's you and me and we collectively are not smart enough to see.</font>
Fair enough. I just couldn't understand what you were getting at. I'd be inclined to agree with you final sentence here the most.
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26387734 - 12/17/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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A little context from my perspective...
I enjoy when my ideas are challenged and like you said this sub is the place to do it. However I sometimes get caught with my hand in too many cookie jars and can not adequately respond in meaningful ways. You are relatively critical and bring a formalism to the table that is fairly rare and also helpful. So that being said let me try to respond here...
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does. So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand. In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism. Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen. Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here. So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.
Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.
You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.
Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.
Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.
First of all I don’t know what my premise is. You may also want to highlight my conclusion as well before I can even respond to that assertion that my premise/conclusion do not line up. If we can get through that then I also do not see how the concepts of existentialism and nihilism relate to metaphysics and epistemology and thus how they are tied up. Basically I do not understand your criticism.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
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Last seen: 28 days, 21 hours
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26387997 - 12/18/19 01:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll PM you shortly
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26388188 - 12/18/19 06:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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too many ticks in the kitchen
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#26388699 - 12/18/19 01:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Look around.
Is this sustainable. Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.
The bunny in the hat is advancements in solar/fusion and battery technology.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz] 1
#26388864 - 12/18/19 02:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I hope you're right whilst thinking you're wrong.
I am more inclined to picture a donkey a stick and a carrot.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26389420 - 12/18/19 07:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: I hope you're right whilst thinking you're wrong.
I am more inclined to picture a donkey a stick and a carrot.
Why do you think I'm wrong? If you research solar you'll find that a lot of money is being pumped into R&D. Fusion is also solid science with research and test funding at an all time high. Models can't accurately predict how plasma will act so test reactors have to be built, which MIT, Lockheed Martin, ITER, and others are investing lots of cash in. Lots of money is also being invested in alternate materials for batteries.
It's only a matter of time for all of them, and not a carrot on a stick. I realize the proof is in the pudding but there are no good arguments that suggest these technologies can't or won't be developed.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26389484 - 12/18/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
Quote:
There is no longer any doubt: we are entering a mass extinction that threatens humanity’s existence.
That’s the conclusion of a new study by a group of scientists including Paul Ehrlich, the Bing Professor of Population Studies in biology and a senior fellow at the Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment. Ehrlich and his co-authors call for fast action to conserve threatened species, populations and habitat, but warn that the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
“[The study] shows without any significant doubt that we are now entering the sixth great mass extinction event,” Ehrlich said.
Although most well known for his positions on human population, Ehrlich has done extensive work on extinctions going back to his 1981 book, Extinction: The Causes and Consequences of the Disappearance of Species. He has long tied his work on coevolution, on racial, gender and economic justice, and on nuclear winter with the issue of wildlife populations and species loss.
According to the study, there is general agreement among scientists that extinction rates have reached levels unparalleled since the dinosaurs died out 66 million years ago. However, some have challenged the theory, believing earlier estimates rested on assumptions that overestimated the crisis.
The new study, published (open-access) in the journal Science Advances, shows that even with extremely conservative estimates, species are disappearing up to about 100 times faster than the normal rate between mass extinctions, known as the background rate.

http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-sixth-mass-extinction-is-here-say-stanford-researchers
Not that it's really news, but I thought I'd share. Anyone care to comment?
There is a trend here that I dont think should be ignored.
What you see as the potential savoir may well allow a continuation of life in an ever polluted environment but that life is on a path to something we may not recognize.
At some point in the raft you gotta eat all the rations, the way you justify this is by convincing yourself of rescue.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 21 hours
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26389977 - 12/19/19 03:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Aren't most people nihilistic/misanthropes at this point that don't give a fuck about any sort of extinction, and actually welcome it?
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
#26390499 - 12/19/19 11:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: What you see as the potential savoir may well allow a continuation of life in an ever polluted environment but that life is on a path to something we may not recognize.
At some point in the raft you gotta eat all the rations, the way you justify this is by convincing yourself of rescue.
The rations will get eaten whether there's a rescue or not. Regarding the former perhaps you are right but I couldn't disagree more. The issue is energy availability and byproduct. Technology isn't inherently dirty and in the modern world there's an inverse correlation between energy use and birth rates. Virtually unlimited clean energy is the actual answer. I'm apathetic towards human nature. We're capable of great good but it's not the norm and that may never change. If we are rescued it will be due to humans being just like they are. The future is clouded by the past, yet desire for profit and prestige (call it greed and ego) are the incentives for developing technology. If it's the past that one looks to for information on the future, the march of technology over the last 150 years is consistent and impressive despite being dirty and responsible for the population explosion and loss of biodiversity. The part that's a bit more difficult to see is that technology get's cleaner as it's refined and advanced and an excess of energy results in lower population rates. If we were to use 1950's technology with today's population numbers the environment would be much more trashed than it currently is. If the whole world had access to education and birth control, population rates would go down due to outlook, and then stabilize due to outlook. The advancements that will be available to use in the future are inherently much cleaner than the technologies we have refined up to this point. We could, worst case scenario rely on fission and coal, and perhaps do so in a way that becomes cleaner and safer (not locating fission plants by the coast or above fault lines would be a good start) but the advancement of technology isn't going to allow for such scenarios to happen. Fusion and solar will eventually make gas/oil/coal/fission obsolete for both financial and safety reasons. And it won't be done primarily because people want to save the world. It won't be done due to everyone being taxed for their natural inclinations. It will be done because people are greedy, and smart, and want recognition to satisfy their ego.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman] 1
#26390930 - 12/19/19 03:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: Aren't most people nihilistic/misanthropes at this point that don't give a fuck about any sort of extinction, and actually welcome it?
Some are I'm not. The flower has no meaning but is beautiful and I'd like to admire it for as long as I can.
I been hoping and arguing for a radical change in human attempts to reverse the negative impacts we have.
I think renewable energy and its many new advances has been for awhile now one of the potential answers.
I just think that for the most, now it's probably too late.
Isnt it edgy when they say they dont give a fuck. To say that I'm a too attached.. to humanity I'm stuck. That the planet will not care and nor should we. Convenient narrative ...leave it be.
Their paradox is that our insignificant selves. Have now created a problem so grand. To change it is impossible. What a fucking hypocritical stance.
Did you have breakfast this morning. Can you see the ongoing clues. The very nature of your existances proves. I am attached and so the fuck are you.
Indoctrination of deadly reinforcements. Force fed by complexes of evil. Led to slaughter blind conformists. Forgetting the earth is also people.
So when the tommorows unseen become your todays. When consequences borne of a constant malaise. When the waters are polluted and the skies full of smoke. Can you still hide behind the safety of being edgy and woke?
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja] 1
#26391459 - 12/19/19 08:32 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"So when the tommorows unseen become your todays. When consequences borne of a constant malaise. When the waters are polluted and the skies full of smoke. Can you still hide behind the safety of being edgy and woke?"
I fucking love that.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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kitten6
hiker

Registered: 05/13/19
Posts: 96
Loc: UK 0161
Last seen: 1 day, 8 hours
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26391908 - 12/20/19 04:55 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe we will see a new age, global cataclysm is imminent, the last age was only 2000 years ago, where have we ended up?
Is this what we make out of the legacy of Jesus, or maybe this was planned out all along.
We keep on advancing further and further for what purpose? Since when did we become so scared of death, what will it take for us to see the traps we are running into, we have become enemies of earth. Either way it is pointless at this point seeing and not seeing.
Our souls have become weak, unable to free our minds.
We are too far gone, and we have been too far gone since the death of Jesus.
This new age has been an age of trial. Now the jury of cataclysm is ready to come up with a verdict.
As prophecised a cataclysm is half way through our doorstep, We will all succumb to trial, and only brightest few will see the light at the end of the tunnel.
My plan is to isolate ourselves and plant our roots deep, and defend my folk and my patch.
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: kitten6]
#26392618 - 12/20/19 03:07 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I grew up around a lot of commune hippies.
The sad thing is.. These people were so focused some impending crisis or another, that a lot of them stopped living their lives.
Now they are retirement age and cannot claim social security because they worked under the table their entire adult life.
Its good to be prepared, just don't let it get in the way of your future.
If any global crisis happens, literally the only thing youll be able to do is go live in the wilderness.
The economy could collapse Our currency could hyper-inflate Our power grid could be taken out by an EMP or cyber attack Nuclear war/nuclear disaster Global famine or disease Yellowstone could fucking blow up
You could obsess forever about all of these things. Every one of these things are completely out of your control. Obsessing about things you have 0 control over is not healthy and counterproductive.
The 5 stages of grief: 1. Denial and isolation; 2. Anger; 3. Bargaining; 4. Depression; 5. Acceptance.
As it is now, our entire way of life is too based on unsustainable practice. Without Semi trucks, our grocery stores run empty and our economy grinds to a halt.
All this talk about getting rid fossil fuel cars by 2030 is a fucking fantasy. Is everyone justsupposed to take the bus everywhere? lol That stuff works in Europe because of how small Europe is.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle] 1
#26392672 - 12/20/19 03:45 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Buckomcdoogle]
#26392850 - 12/20/19 05:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Buckomcdoogle said:
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference."
Of course it's possible to accomplish this without help from a higher power.
(standard disclaimer)
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Buckomcdoogle
Atypical obsessive.


Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 932
Last seen: 7 months, 22 days
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#26392916 - 12/20/19 06:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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The thing is, im not at all religious.
I just think its a great saying.
-------------------- "Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity" "Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence, the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is chaos and decay" "Logic leads to nihilism"
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 21 hours
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26393380 - 12/21/19 01:20 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Before I disappear into hyperspace for the day, I recall reading a solid paper claiming "eras" for civilization only last roughly 200-400 years on average, and the USA is approaching 245 years old, lol. Something to think about. Lots of data supports the rise and falls of civilizations, societies, and empires in said time frames.
See you all tomorrow with my super rad trip report (6g dried is starting to kick)!
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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