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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26384378 - 12/16/19 01:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Just the fear of the unknown.
Fear is just one of those things wired into our brains to help us survive.
Kind of like anxiety

When it comes down to it human instincts are simple as long as you don't read into it too much.

Eat,gather,fuck,sleep

and most of all stay alive.

They say submarine crews have to overcome the instinctual fear of not breathing.

In the case you need to eject from it in an emergency

When you eject from a submarine you have to release all of the air from your lungs otherwise the pressure change causes the oxygen to expand.

Imagine that, traveling trough pitch black water for 10-20 seconds with no air in your lungs?

Its amazing what we humans are capable of if we can overcome fear.


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



Edited by Buckomcdoogle (12/16/19 01:18 AM)


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
    #26384403 - 12/16/19 02:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.





Ticks will kill the host if allowed to.
Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.




Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.

The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.

Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.




I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path.
I feel like dying.


Look around.

Is this sustainable.
Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.

These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?

The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.

As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this"
Imho






I'm having a hard time seeing what point you're attempting to make here...?


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26384410 - 12/16/19 02:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does.  So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand.  In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism.  Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen.  Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here.  So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.




Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.

You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.

Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.

Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineBuckomcdoogle
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26384430 - 12/16/19 02:32 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Existential nihilism
"There is no justification for life, but also no reason not to live."


--------------------
"Nothing is more dangerous to your creativity than comfort and familiarity"

"Nihilism is the most basic truth in existence,
the only consistency throughout the world, and the universe is
chaos and decay"
"Logic leads to nihilism"



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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26385145 - 12/16/19 01:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does.  So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand.  In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism.  Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen.  Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here.  So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.




Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.

You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.

Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.

Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.




I quit


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26385161 - 12/16/19 01:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.





Ticks will kill the host if allowed to.
Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.




Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.

The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.

Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.




I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path.
I feel like dying.


Look around.

Is this sustainable.
Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.

These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?

The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.

As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this"
Imho






I'm having a hard time seeing what point you're attempting to make here...?





You think I am getting upset over a fake threat perpetrated by puppet master who are to smart to sink the ship.

I think you're wrong.

I think it's you and me and we collectively are not smart enough to see.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26385164 - 12/16/19 01:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Please don't.
Allow him to say his...be yours.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
    #26385237 - 12/16/19 02:12 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

"Loaded Shaman said:
The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm."

Conclusion does not follow from the premise.

There are many cases of tough or bad guys, dominating others before going down with the ship

Shouldn't be too hard for anybody half awake to come up with one

how about Hitler for starters?

now how hard was that?

How is this even taken seriously?

Just because someone bullies you doesn't mean they're smart.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: laughingdog]
    #26385371 - 12/16/19 03:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Hitler went out with a bang.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26385488 - 12/16/19 04:50 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

By calling the jerks that run things "elites" the issue is confused.
nobody thinks of cops as 'elites'.
People who run things are never the smartest, just the bossiest, who hide their true motives.
We even have a special class of jokes for lawyers.
And the hypocrisy of politicians is why a huge percentage of folks don't bother to vote.
The smart guys like Steven Hawkins etc, never have any interest in controlling others.
Einstein refused the offer to be Prime Minister of Israel.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
    #26386276 - 12/17/19 01:12 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does.  So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand.  In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism.  Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen.  Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here.  So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.




Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.

You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.

Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.

Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.




I quit




Don't quit. This sub is supposed to be critical. I have an academic background and lots of experience so it's hard for me to let small stuff slide, I know I'm annoying AF. I don't intent do come off as a prick but it's like watching someone do push-ups incorrectly then claim they know what they're doing. Philosophy is infinitely more dangerous because you can't SEE what you're doing at the start, necessarily!

You ask great questions and set up great frames. I'll be more conscientious with my posts in the future to not come off like an elitist fuck. Thanks for hanging in :heart:.

Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
The elites will not let the system collapse as it's pointless to have nothing to control, and that's their entire paradigm.





Ticks will kill the host if allowed to.
Self preservation can be incredibly short sighted.




Right, so the magic lies in convincing you they're ticks (clueless, greedy, short-sighted) instead of puppet masters (long game) whom control perception and narrative to implant that logic in the population's mind the first place.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" is a logical fallacy that simultanesouly seals off the average person from critical thinking and seals in sociopaths who know how to game regular people from all angles.

The average person is an egotistical know it all, and admitting they've been fooled is equal to death to them. This world is quite literally set up from all sides to be run by the sociopathic and psychotic.

Everything is conveniently and constantly a "just around the corner" disaster. Stoke the flames, people will spend money they don't really have and support agendas that are against their best interest. This is one of those agendas IMHO.




I just cannot believe my average intelligence has led me blindly down the path.
I feel like dying.


Look around.

Is this sustainable.
Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.

These puppet masters so smart that here we are questioning?

The most skillful part of their finale is shown through those who give them measures of intellect in place of ignorance.

As the beast finally succumbs to the thousand bites they whisper softly.."Dont worry, we got this"
Imho






I'm having a hard time seeing what point you're attempting to make here...?





You think I am getting upset over a fake threat perpetrated by puppet master who are to smart to sink the ship.

I think you're wrong.

I think it's you and me and we collectively are not smart enough to see.</font>




Fair enough. I just couldn't understand what you were getting at. I'd be inclined to agree with you final sentence here the most.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26387734 - 12/17/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

A little context from my perspective...

I enjoy when my ideas are challenged and like you said this sub is the place to do it.  However I sometimes get caught with my hand in too many cookie jars and can not adequately respond in meaningful ways.  You are relatively critical and bring a formalism to the table that is fairly rare and also helpful.  So that being said let me try to respond here...




Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Existentialism teaches us to take ownership of the self which exists in the meaningless and impersonal world that it does.  So you’re absolutely right that the two go hand in hand.  In a way existentialism is a response to nihilism.  Within existentialism in terms of the mass degradation of the planet the idea would be that despite ones infinite meaninglessness in the grand scheme of things what’s important is to take self ownership for whatever path is chosen.  Meaning is subjective and created from within, the world is just here.  So according to this results aren’t necessarily the end game, instead meaning and principle and things like that are what take highest priority I believe.




Your premise and your conclusion don't line up, despite your conclusion being accurate and one I agree with.

You have your metaphysics, and consequently your epistemology, all knotted up bro.

Existentialism leads to nihilism, not the other way around. Nihilism is the assumption the universe is causal, determined, and does what it does without your input, nor care for it, thus why give a fuck? 50% will get more depressed and the other 50% will find personal liberty in this realization. There is no one path for the same outcome. Existentialists either become depressed and obsessed with nihilism, or empowered by rational, critical thinking and finding the faults in that paradigm that invalidate it completely, and return you to True Power.

Dead on about meaning (language) being created from within. All of reality is. That's the point.





First of all I don’t know what my premise is.  You may also want to highlight my conclusion as well before I can even respond to that assertion that my premise/conclusion do not line up.  If we can get through that then I also do not see how the concepts of existentialism and nihilism relate to metaphysics and epistemology and thus how they are tied up.  Basically I do not understand your criticism.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26387997 - 12/18/19 01:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I'll PM you shortly :heart:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26388188 - 12/18/19 06:30 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

too many ticks in the kitchen


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26388699 - 12/18/19 01:02 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Look around.

Is this sustainable.
Is there some bunny in the hat that I simply cannot see.




The bunny in the hat is advancements in solar/fusion and battery technology.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26388864 - 12/18/19 02:26 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I hope you're right whilst thinking you're wrong.

I am more inclined to picture a donkey a stick and a carrot.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
    #26389420 - 12/18/19 07:22 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
I hope you're right whilst thinking you're wrong.

I am more inclined to picture a donkey a stick and a carrot.




Why do you think I'm wrong? If you research solar you'll find that a lot of money is being pumped into R&D. Fusion is also solid science with research and test funding at an all time high. Models can't accurately predict how plasma will act so test reactors have to be built, which MIT, Lockheed Martin, ITER, and others are investing lots of cash in. Lots of money is also being invested in alternate materials for batteries.

It's only a matter of time for all of them, and not a carrot on a stick. I realize the proof is in the pudding but there are no good arguments that suggest these technologies can't or won't be developed.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26389484 - 12/18/19 07:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

There is no longer any doubt: we are entering a mass extinction that threatens humanity’s existence.

That’s the conclusion of a new study by a group of scientists including Paul Ehrlich, the Bing Professor of Population Studies in biology and a senior fellow at the Stanford Woods Institute for the Environment. Ehrlich and his co-authors call for fast action to conserve threatened species, populations and habitat, but warn that the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.

“[The study] shows without any significant doubt that we are now entering the sixth great mass extinction event,” Ehrlich said.

Although most well known for his positions on human population, Ehrlich has done extensive work on extinctions going back to his 1981 book, Extinction: The Causes and Consequences of the Disappearance of Species. He has long tied his work on coevolution, on racial, gender and economic justice, and on nuclear winter with the issue of wildlife populations and species loss.

According to the study, there is general agreement among scientists that extinction rates have reached levels unparalleled since the dinosaurs died out 66 million years ago. However, some have challenged the theory, believing earlier estimates rested on assumptions that overestimated the crisis.

The new study, published (open-access) in the journal Science Advances, shows that even with extremely conservative estimates, species are disappearing up to about 100 times faster than the normal rate between mass extinctions, known as the background rate.







http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-sixth-mass-extinction-is-here-say-stanford-researchers


Not that it's really news, but I thought I'd share.  Anyone care to comment?




There is a trend here that I dont think should be ignored.

What you see as the potential savoir may well allow a continuation of life in an ever polluted environment but that life is on a path to something we may not recognize.

At some point in the raft you gotta eat all the rations, the way you justify this is by convincing yourself of rescue.


--------------------
Just a fool on the hill.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
    #26389977 - 12/19/19 03:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Aren't most people nihilistic/misanthropes at this point that don't give a fuck about any sort of extinction, and actually welcome it?


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: the sixth mass extinction is officially here [Re: pineninja]
    #26390499 - 12/19/19 11:07 AM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
What you see as the potential savoir may well allow a continuation of life in an ever polluted environment but that life is on a path to something we may not recognize.

At some point in the raft you gotta eat all the rations, the way you justify this is by convincing yourself of rescue.




The rations will get eaten whether there's a rescue or not. Regarding the former perhaps you are right but I couldn't disagree more. The issue is energy availability and byproduct. Technology isn't inherently dirty and in the modern world there's an inverse correlation between energy use and birth rates. Virtually unlimited clean energy is the actual answer. I'm apathetic towards human nature. We're capable of great good but it's not the norm and that may never change. If we are rescued it will be due to humans being just like they are. The future is clouded by the past, yet desire for profit and prestige (call it greed and ego) are the incentives for developing technology. If it's the past that one looks to for information on the future, the march of technology over the last 150 years is consistent and impressive despite being dirty and responsible for the population explosion and loss of biodiversity. The part that's a bit more difficult to see is that technology get's cleaner as it's refined and advanced and an excess of energy results in lower population rates. If we were to use 1950's technology with today's population numbers the environment would be much more trashed than it currently is. If the whole world had access to education and birth control, population rates would go down due to outlook, and then stabilize due to outlook. The advancements that will be available to use in the future are inherently much cleaner than the technologies we have refined up to this point. We could, worst case scenario rely on fission and coal, and perhaps do so in a way that becomes cleaner and safer (not locating fission plants by the coast or above fault lines would be a good start) but the advancement of technology isn't going to allow for such scenarios to happen. Fusion and solar will eventually make gas/oil/coal/fission obsolete for both financial and safety reasons. And it won't be done primarily because people want to save the world. It won't be done due to everyone being taxed for their natural inclinations. It will be done because people are greedy, and smart, and want recognition to satisfy their ego.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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