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Adsutter
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Registered: 06/19/15
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possible issues. low pin density
#21828074 - 06/19/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello all. so this is my first time growing. i got 2 3lb 5-grain spawn bags and inoculated them with Golden teacher spores. after 6 weeks of colonization 1 bag was completed. i gave it an extra week before birthing the cake. The cake was already damp when removed from bag so I rolled in Dry vermiculite. then i placed the cake in the fruiting chamber and misted the chamber. fruiting chamber has 1 and a half inch of perlite. as you can see from the pic the cake is sitting on a layer of foil. Temp between 75 and 81.chamber is fanned 2-3 times during day. at night chamber is connected to filtered air pump which is set to come on 3 times for half hour periods. the temp/humidity gauge i have only goes up to 95% humidity and after that just says HI% lol. i have yet to see it say anything other then HI% since fruiting began. I spray water lightly 1-2 a day from high up as i have no protection from the mist falling directly on the cake and forming droplets. my mist water contains a small portion of H202.
during the first week after birthing white growth grew around some of the cake (not sure if this is mycelial growth or if its the cobweb mold i read about)
during second week (it's currently day 4 of week 2) i got 2 pins on day 1 and another 2 on day 3. and that's it so far. Half cup of water added to perlite on day 2 of week 2.
i am concerned that in all that surface area for growth all i am getting is a few pins. and that i am unsure what the white growth is. from my point of view all 4 triggers were met. 1 mycelium growth complete. 2 Increased Fresh air exchange. 3 constant evaporation with 99% humidity. 4 Exposure to natural daylight
any input would be wonderful as this is my first time and i still have a second bag colonizing. hoping to get all my errors out of the way on this bag so i am more ready and experienced when birthing the next bag.
(have done extensive research and am proficient in most shroom cultivation terminology)
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: Adsutter]
#21828136 - 06/19/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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you mix grain with substrate, just grain on its own doesn't perform all that well
1 and a half inch of perlite isn't nearly enough, no directions I have EVER read have said to use so little
fanned 2-3 times during day. at night chamber is connected to filtered air pump which is set to come on 3 times for half hour periods. -you don't fan just because, you fan only after you mist, and you mist only when you need to be it 0 or 10 times a day depending on your unique environment.
above 95% humidity is bad. you want fluctuation in humidity. 99% humidity only matters in the few millimeters from the surface of the cake which is taken care of by appropriate evaporation if there's sufficient air exchange
I spray water lightly 1-2 a day from high up as i have no protection from the mist falling directly on the cake and forming droplets. my mist water contains a small portion of H202. -I've only ever seen bogus direction wrote by idiots say no to mist the cake directly. you DO mist the cake directly, you fan only after you mist. h2o2 damages your mycelium good job 
air pumps provide a fraction of a fraction of the needed air exchange, hence why fruiting chambers have holes in them and no air pumps. only shitty youtube TEKs and directions call for that(and grow kits). if you want to do well do some research and start from scratch.
or at the very least build a real fruiting chamber if you want to see that cake do anything good.
if there's no holes underneath the perlite the perlite is just sitting in a tub being useless.
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: Adsutter]
#21828261 - 06/19/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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^ A constantly wet surface flattens the myc and prevents propper pinning. I had this problem from overmisting when I started out. With that humidity, you probably shouldn't mist the sub at all. Any time you see water droplets glistening on the myc, it's not good. I suggest fanning it outside the fc until they evaporate. I've had nice pinsets on cakes with very low fae, so I would suspect that isn't the issue.
If you get back on track, dunk those grains between flushes, as they have low water capacity that needs to be replenished. I suspect the intention of the grains was to be spawned to bulk substrate, not fruited as is.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: Any time you see water droplets glistening on the myc, it's not good.
I'd say quite the opposite 
I suspect its a combination of bacterial cakes and poor FAE that gives those fruits the sad look.
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Adsutter
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: spacechildo]
#21828418 - 06/19/15 02:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is indeed a grow kit. about the perilite. the guide called for 1 to 2 inches. so i did 1 and a half. the container did not come with holes at the bottom under perilite nor did it say anything about that.not saying your wrong yet the 1.5 inches i have even without holes seems to be causing heavy evaporation anyway. when i fan the humidity drops significantly but jumps right back to HI% within the hour. and i fan for fresh air exchange only..
-you don't fan just because, you fan only after you mist, and you mist only when you need to be it 0 or 10 times a day depending on your unique environment.
by this logic if i didn't need to mist then i would never fan and then i would have no fresh air exchange... the pump came with the kit but i did read that fanning was much better so the pump is only connected and in use at night while im sleeping. any other time i fan.
i did not realize that H202 would damage mycelium. in fact when i posted online about possible cobweb growth it was recommended to me to put h202 in my mist water. so thanks for the warning.
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spacechildo
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Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: Adsutter]
#21828440 - 06/19/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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fuck the guide then. its wrong.
the pics doesnt look like a cake of pure grains to me, looks like some verm in there too..?
you want holes in your chamber. fanning isnt FAE.
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Adsutter
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: spacechildo]
#21830521 - 06/19/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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as i said. when the cake was birthed i rolled the cake in vermiculite. so it has a verm layer around the outside.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: Adsutter]
#21831405 - 06/20/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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To fan for fae you need to fan a chamber your sized over 6 times an hour
Go ahead and listen to your shit grow kit guide we could give two fucks. We grow mushrooms and kits don't we're not trying to fuck you, the kit is though.
Noobs and misting for cobweb that isn't there go together like bread and butter. Even if you have cobweb just toss the fucker and fix the problem that caused you contamination. If you think you have cobweb don't jump to conclusions post a picture and ask first before spraying poison all over.
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PussyFart
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: Adsutter]
#21831425 - 06/20/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adsutter said: by this logic if i didn't need to mist then i would never fan and then i would have no fresh air exchange...
We do not fan for FAE, the chamber should do that on it's own....we only fan after misting for a drop in humidity, so evaporation can take place.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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PussyFart
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: bodhisatta]
#21831429 - 06/20/15 06:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Go ahead and listen to your shit grow kit guide we could give two fucks. We grow mushrooms and kits don't we're not trying to fuck you, the kit is though.
No offense to OP, but I agree with this statement, even tho it is harsh, it is true.
We are not trying to fuck anyone, quite the opposite......but kits are made to separate you from your money, period.
There was very solid advice given that should not be ignored.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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PussyFart
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Registered: 04/08/12
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: ^ A constantly wet surface flattens the myc and prevents propper pinning. I had this problem from overmisting when I started out. With that humidity, you probably shouldn't mist the sub at all. Any time you see water droplets glistening on the myc, it's not good.
Wrong.......you want constant water droplets on the substartes surface that are constantly evaporating off.....this is a main pinning trigger.....
Look at my pinsets and tell me that ""it's not good""...........
The surface should always look like this......
Sounds like you need a better/finer mister.....
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
Edited by PussyFart (06/20/15 06:39 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: PussyFart]
#21831457 - 06/20/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Moisture is awesome. Above field capacity subs not so awesome
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: PussyFart]
#21832970 - 06/20/15 04:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Interesting. My casings looked like that, and for weeks refused to pin on the surface and were sidepinning and doing all kinds of janky maneuvers.
As soon as I stopped misting the casings directly pinsets began to form. Where the surface had fused from the moisture, strange double mushrooms that had "melted together" sprung up. Water droplets would take ~5 days to evaporate off.
I find the casing also can stay moist for ~2weeks by only misting the walls and lid 2x a day. The only replenishment it needs can come from dunking or a heavy soaking misting followed by a ~20min fanning to return it to some semblance of field capacity.
I've used MSG style fruiting chambers thus far in a 50%RH area, with 50/50+, and that has been my experience.
Your pinset is dope, though I haven't grown with a good clone or ISO yet (soon,) mostly MS. Maybe there is a happy middleground with less but finer mist that will give me a better pinset.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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bodhisatta 
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Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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They would have pinned that day anyway you just correlated the misting to it
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Adsutter
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Registered: 06/19/15
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: bodhisatta]
#21835199 - 06/21/15 01:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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thanks for all the input so far. i realize the guide for my kit has led me astray. but as i said i have another bag almost done colonizing so maybe i can get it all right for the second try. so far from what you all have said.....
I need to put holes in my fruit chamber. i read about the shot gun chamber which says i need 1/4 inch holes on all sides. and the container raised up for air circulation underneath. and of course more perilite.
i read right from shroomery that if i was worried i had cobweb then to make my misting water 10% H202. so i hope the misting i did do had no harm so far... but after "bodhisatta's" first reply i replaced my misting water with just distilled water.
"you fan only after you mist, and you mist only when you need to be it 0 or 10 times a day depending on your unique environment"-"you DO mist the cake directly"-Bodhisatta
and if i am correct i mist when i need to replace moisture in the chamber and perilite. or do i still pour water directly into the perilite as needed?
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: Adsutter]
#21835284 - 06/21/15 02:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is what you want to build for a fruiting chamber. It is cheap (under $20 usd) and is very effective.
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek
Also, instead of buying a kit? Here is an easy to follow tek called pf. All materials can easily be found locally.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11585613
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: insanemike]
#21835801 - 06/21/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Check out the second link in my signature.
We just wana see you do the best possible.
When you mist overspray keeps the perlite wet but you still may need to rehydrate perlite every 2+ seeks depending on your situation. If so you can use water directly to perlite or put the whole thing in the shower.
I don't think you can buy 10% peroxide at a pharmacy store its usually 1.5 or 3% you can get 26% at a hydro store but that will fuck shit up.
Distilled water is good for spore syringes tap water is far superior for misting cakes. Distilled water has no ions and trace minerals.
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Adsutter
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Re: possible issues. low pin density [Re: bodhisatta]
#21836575 - 06/21/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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NICE! those last couple responses were exactly what i was looking for.
"I don't think you can buy 10% peroxide at a pharmacy store its usually 1.5 or 3% you can get 26% at a hydro store but that will fuck shit up." - Bodhisatta no i didn't buy 10% peroxide.. the bottle i bought is actually only 3%.... however i poured 1 ounce of the solution into 10 ounces distilled water to make sure that just under 10% of my water was the hydro solution... but doesn't matter. now there is 0% solution in my water.. i still have some peroxide in my perilite though.
hmm. interesting fact on the distilled water vs tap water. my next cake i was going to do the dunk and roll process on it immediately after birthing but before placing in fruiting chamber. in dunking would you also recommend using tap water instead of distilled?
on this first cake (still in a grow kit fruiting chamber) i still have yet to get any more pins but the 4 shrooms shown in the pic (plus a 5th not shown) have all doubled in size. since this first grow is probably fail anyway, i decided to gently wipe the white fuzz off the cake shown in the pic. underneath the fuzz i found that the cake has blued. so yea probably fail.. i'll post a pic of it later
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Adsutter
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heres that picture

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Machiavelliavore
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Re: that picture [Re: Adsutter]
#21838087 - 06/21/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The H2O2 in your perlite is unstable and will simply turn into water. 0 concern at all.
Your peroxide was super diluted. When the peroxide bottle says 3%, that means 3% peroxide, 97% water. Your dilution put you under.3% peroxide, so it probably didn't do jack.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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