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Offlinemusiclover420
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Phalaris Guide
    #21638139 - 05/05/15 04:26 AM (9 years, 15 days ago)

So after seeing the interest in my recent phalaris giveaway/ trade and also just seeing all the nice grass out I felt compelled to do some quick research to write up a little guide.
There are a lot of varieties of phalaris, but I have been focusing on the 3 most common.
The 3 kinds I will talk about all can vary in shape somewhat making them look similiar but generally as you will see they have pretty distinct seed heads.

Here is the start:

3 most common phalaris varieties

Phalaris Brachystachys:

From wiki "Originally from the mediterranean region,Phalaris brachystachys is an annual grass with growth habits and cultural requirements similar to Phalaris aquatica. It grows most actively during the spring and fall, while resting during the heat of midsummer and the short cool days of winter. It also must be protected from heavy freezes. While at least one strain showed an extremely strong occurrence of N,N-DMT as the sole alkaloid, other strains indicated the presence of 5-MeO-DMT as well. Strongly positive human bioassays have been reported using some clones"





Phalaris Aquatica:

Also from wiki "Some Phalaris species contain gramine, which can cause brain damage, other organ damage, central nervous system damage and death in sheep[4] although Phalaris Aquatica is said to be non-toxic.[5]

Leaves and seedlings contain the tryptamine hallucinogens DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and related compounds.[6] A raw, dried plant Phalaris aquatica contains approximately 0.1% DMT, 0.022% 5-MeO-DMT, and 0.005% bufotenin.[7] A particular strain of P. aquatica from Italy, labeled 'AQ-1', was reported to contain in excess of 1.0% alkaloid concentration."





Phalaris Arundinacea:





Phalaris info

Here is a nexus thread with phalaris chemical analysis's:
The Phalaris Analysis Thread

Here is a general phalaris faq:
Phalaris spp.
From above source:

The alkaloids found so far in Phalaris according to festi and samorini 1994:

    N-methyltryptamine (MMT)
    5-methoxy-N-methyltryptamine (5-MeO-MMT)
    N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT)
    5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DMT)
    5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (Bufotenine, 5-HO-DMT)
    5-methyl-tryptamine
    5-methoxy-tryptamine
    2-methyl-l,2,3,4-tetrahydro-B-carboline (MTHC), not found in P. aquatica
    2-methyl-6-methoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-B-carboline (MMTHC)
    2,9-dimethyl-6-methoxy-l ,2,3,4-tetrahydro-B-carboline (DMTHC)
    Gramine
    7-methoxy-gramine
    5,7-dimethoxy-gramine
    Hordenine

Pretty fascinating stuff I would say, the presence of hordenine as well as beta carbolines has me intrigued!

Edited by musiclover420 (05/05/15 04:32 AM)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21644856 - 05/06/15 04:42 PM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Cultivation

Here is what has been working for me:

1: apply dried seeds to sprouting pot or whatever.

2: after several weeks of sprouts maturing transplant the ones that are getting big enough for their own small pots.

I generally start this part once the grass blades thicken up and the roots are starting to interfere with each other.

I also generally start with a 4" pot too, depending on how big I let em get before transplanting.

3: Let them get nice and rooted in their own small pots, once roots are visible on the bottom re pot into bigger pots.

Here you can either put them right into the ground or a permanent pot or do a med then up size it when they get rootbound again.

4: By this point you should have some pretty mature pots of grass, maybe around 1-3 months old depending on conditions and etc.

I have had all my grass flower so far minus the "big medicine" which seems to only spread by cuttings for me.

Once your grass is mature and has filled up its final pot it will start putting out seed heads which can then be harvested after "flowering"

I have fertilized all of mine to varying amounts after putting them in their own pots, though this is not necessary.

Temp and moisture are key to quick growth, in the winter I have let my plants survive in a heated greenhouse instead of losing fresh growth and re starting in the spring.

They can take a lot of watering and will grow best without drying, I tend to soak mine whenever I think about it to avoid them drying at all.

Hope this info helps

:cheers:


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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OfflineBumbaclotjohnson
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21644971 - 05/06/15 05:06 PM (9 years, 13 days ago)

This was a good read I'm gonna direct sow mine in a few days :sun:


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: Bumbaclotjohnson]
    #21645089 - 05/06/15 05:30 PM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Thanks!

I have been admiring all the great phalaris out as well as my home grown stuff and figured I would try and compile some info for my own and others use :thumbup:

What kind you sowing?

I have some home grown brachy and yugo red seeds I will be testing soon, as well as some big medicine plants ready for cloning.

Plus I am planning an excursion into some wetlands and will be taking samples to propagate.

I will try and keep updating this and editing it as things progress and I find more useful info, if anyone else has any feel free to share it as well!


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21645936 - 05/06/15 08:19 PM (9 years, 13 days ago)

Good info ML.

-Bookmarked-


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'




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Invisiblehobowizard
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Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 192
Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21826876 - 06/19/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Would you trip if you'd simply pick the phalaris plant, pulverize it and then simply eat it? I guess it would be possible to eat like 200g's.

Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 06:24 AM)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: hobowizard]
    #21826886 - 06/19/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I was talking to a friends dad awhile back who said he used to smoke fresh phalaris and said he has seen geometry/ colors from it though faint I believe.

I have heard other stories of people doing the same, but it seems like luck to me since the genetics can vary so much.

Phalarayuasca interests me greatly, I personally think it is part of the next step in human evolution, making aya available for the masses.

The challenge is phalaris's alkaloid variation.

Some phalaris would be perfectly fine for eating, ones with beta carbolines could even be geared towards it.

But with things like gramine also potentially present in some species you want to do thorough research and be cautious.

Where does the 200g's come from? :lol: and are you talking fresh or dry weight?

I have read people claiming one tablespoon of phalaris juice (juiced grass) is enough for a very intense aya experience when taken with harmalas.

Something about it being potent enough to "have one on the ground curled up in a fetal position with molecules exploding all around" I believe.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Invisiblehobowizard
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Posts: 192
Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21827027 - 06/19/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

phalaris aquatica. dry. perhaps not 200g, because that would be ruff to eat. but 50g would be easily absorbed orally.
Quote:

Some Phalaris species contain gramine, which can cause brain damage, other organ damage, central nervous system damage and death in sheep[4] although Phalaris Aquatica is said to be non-toxic



Ok, so I'm going to feed tihs to sheeps and see if they die. I'm for real.

Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 07:47 AM)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: hobowizard]
    #21827057 - 06/19/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

The potency can vary quite a bit, 50grams could easily be a massive overdose. 1 kilo is what I have read people use for extractions and I have heard of 3~ gram yields.

That is fresh too so 100grams dry could potentially be enough for a small extraction.;

I have read aqautica is gramine free but am not positive.

Why not juice it or make a tea? I would not want to eat plain grass regardless of the amount.

Unless I found a mega potent variety where I could quid small amounts with harmalas.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Invisiblehobowizard
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Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 192
Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21827568 - 06/19/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Ok. In aquatica there is 0.1% DMT, 0.02% 5-MeO-DMT and traces of 5-OH-DMT. so in 50g would be 0.05g DMT (500mg). Yeah, that's too much. so 5g's would be just fine.

So anyway, let me get this straight: Dmt is an alkaloid, right. Alkaloids do melt in water. Water absorbs it and because of that the tea could become trippy DMT tea. And if there is gramine it would go away if I'd put like p.strong acid (for example lemon juice (2ph)) in to that liquid and after that I'd need to do something else I guess (extraction)...

BTW, wtf??? These plants litherally grow everywhere, LITHERALLY... I could go pick them right now... Again, LITHERALLY.

EDIT:

I think I just said nonsesne. 0.1% DMT is not from whole plant, but from alkaloids (there are 0.0007-0.18%)... lets say there is 0.01% alkaloids. so from that, there is 0.0001% dmt. That would mean... you'd need to consume kinda a lot? I'm totally lost.

Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 10:42 AM)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: hobowizard]
    #21827601 - 06/19/15 10:42 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Keep in mind those numbers can vary quite a lot. It could easily be 1/10th as much alkaloids or multiple times more.

That and the potential beta carbolines which would probably enhance the effects with their maoi activities make it hard to gauge dosing by weight.

Not sure if all alkaloids are water soluble but I know most tryptamines bond readily with acidic water.

To get rid of gramine the only method I know is pulling wit naptha since gramine is non soluble in it from what I have read.

Naptha is the main solvent used in extractions too so it is basically perfect.

They grow everywhere indeed, here in Oregon there are acres of giant aqautica fields as far as the eye can see.

I have multiple kinds of phalaris growing wild in my yard even.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Invisiblehobowizard
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Posts: 192
Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21827615 - 06/19/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Anyway, this needs experimenting. But for how long would I trip when consumed orally? BTW, would I need Monoamine oxidase inhibitor?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3421887

this actually answers a lot of questions https://www.erowid.org/plants/phalaris/phalaris_faq.shtml

Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 11:03 AM)

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: hobowizard]
    #21827730 - 06/19/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

:lol: people thought bufo was what was causing the sheeps deaths.

Some varieties of phalaris might be mildly active orally on their own but for ones without beta carbolines you definitely need an maoi.

Due to the diverse alkaloids in the grass is not smart to try any orally unless you have done lots of research and or have a grass clown with good genes.

Definitely needs experimenting indeed, folks over at the Nexus have been pretty on it thankfully.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Invisiblehobowizard
beginner
Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 192
Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21828885 - 06/19/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Anyway, this is what I am going to do:

First experiment (which probably start on monday):
1/3 lemon juice + 2/3 water + p.aquatica. let it simmer for 12 hours. coffee filter everything. do the same with more lemon and more water, let it simmer again for 12 hours. coffee filter again the new stuff. mix both liquids. let it evaporate and then see what I get from that...

Second experiment (which will be done probably with a friend):
full extraction to crystals from p. aquatica and arundinacea (probably only arundinacea because there are more of them - easier to pick).

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: hobowizard]
    #21830355 - 06/19/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Sounds good, but 12 hours could be overkill.

Maybe do several 4~ hour simmers, also I recommend finding a store to buy citric acid if you can. It can be pretty cheap, I have bought it at fredmeyers.

I only recommend citric acid becouse buying lots lemons/ juice can be pricey depending on how big of an extraction you plan.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Invisiblehobowizard
beginner
Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 192
Re: Phalaris Guide [Re: musiclover420]
    #21831294 - 06/20/15 04:53 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I was wondering about lemons, because one lemon produces approximately 50g lemon juice. I'll probably use acetic acid.

Edited by hobowizard (06/20/15 04:55 AM)

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