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InvisibleGottaloveacid
Weedbass
Male


Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21825379 - 06/18/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A completely free market is a huge culprit... although it would be difficult to properly implement a system that would prevent discrimination without impeding the rights of others, it has to be done one way or another. The fact that people can refuse a minority a job because that person doesn't like them is the problem.

Thankfully there are now some laws being put in place to prevent this discrimination, but that is because liberalism exists.... if this country was completely conservative/unprogressive we would still have every employer discriminating against minorities....
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
Anyone can respect that... I have held that work ethic my whole life.


But when there are laws/regulation in place that prevent minorities from getting jobs (that conservatives put in to effect) and then conservatives (the same people who put that regulation in) say that, it is just hypocritical.

How can you expect a homeless person to get a job when they have no clothes, smell like shit, and are discriminated against? The point of liberalism is to make sure they are ready to get a job by providing them temporary help. Yes, there are those who abuse the system. That is their problem, and in a perfect world we would have a system that prevents that. But sadly we can't get their without progressive viewpoints.

Your argument it literally invalid




What laws are you talking about?  They have been given preferred treatment for decades. 


If I don't hire you because you are homeless, don't have a car and phone and smell like shit that is NOT discrimination.




You aren't getting the point. You are telling these people to get jobs when no one will hire them because they were born poor. What the fuck do you expect them to do? THAT IS WHY WELFARE EXISTS.........

Again.... conservatives believe if you were born in a bad situation you have to live that way forever.


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21825381 - 06/18/15 08:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Who is systematically denied anything?  Minorities and women get preferential treatment BY STATUTE!


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21825405 - 06/18/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Statutes offer nothing to the innocent children of broken families.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21825410 - 06/18/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
A completely free market is a huge culprit... although it would be difficult to properly implement a system that would prevent discrimination without impeding the rights of others, it has to be done one way or another. The fact that people can refuse a minority a job because that person doesn't like them is the problem.

Thankfully there are now some laws being put in place to prevent this discrimination, but that is because liberalism exists.... if this country was completely

conservative/unprogressive we would still have every employer discriminating against minorities....




We don't have a completely free market and haven't had one for a century at least  And the legal discrimination is in favor of minorities
Quote:









Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
Anyone can respect that... I have held that work ethic my whole life.


But when there are laws/regulation in place that prevent minorities from getting jobs (that conservatives put in to effect) and then conservatives (the same people who put that regulation in) say that, it is just hypocritical.

How can you expect a homeless person to get a job when they have no clothes, smell like shit, and are discriminated against? The point of liberalism is to make sure they are ready to get a job by providing them temporary help. Yes, there are those who abuse the system. That is their problem, and in a perfect world we would have a system that prevents that. But sadly we can't get their without progressive viewpoints.

Your argument it literally invalid




What laws are you talking about?  They have been given preferred treatment for decades. 


If I don't hire you because you are homeless, don't have a car and phone and smell like shit that is NOT discrimination.




You aren't getting the point. You are telling these people to get jobs when no one will hire them because they were born poor. What the fuck do you expect them to do? THAT IS WHY WELFARE EXISTS.........




Not every bum was born poor.  Most of them drank or drugged their way into homelessness and shitsmelling.  I would bet almost all of them have a substance issue.  Except  maybe the occasional schizo who isn't also an abuser.  I suppose they might exist.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21825418 - 06/18/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Statutes offer nothing to the innocent children of broken families.




Shall we have state orphanages for them?


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21825431 - 06/18/15 08:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

the "free market" is a classical liberal principle. but that principle was distorted to its utmost extreme by the reaganites in the 80's, hence the (pejorative) term "neoliberalism", which academics use to describe far right-wing ideology regarding world order and the global economy. but there i go being all informed and knowledgeable and stuff.

:pleasetellmemore:


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
Weedbass
Male


Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21825433 - 06/18/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We don't have a completely free market because of liberalism, like I said in my previous post, without liberalism we would still have all of the discrimination and none of the laws to protect people would exist. Conservatives want to abolish these laws......



And I was born poor. Without welfare, I wouldn't be a contributing member of society. Yes, some brought it upon themselves. That doesn't mean everyone else should suffer. The reason substance abuse is so common among the poor and homeless is because it is an easy escape, it doesn't mean they originally became poor because of it....


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female

Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: So I googled [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21825435 - 06/18/15 08:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know, maybe the religious right should ditch their focus on persecuting sexual minorities and work to provide for the actual salvation of people in actual need. How many of these so-called Christians spend their time and money on campaigns against gay liberation when all of those precious resources could be spent on fulfilling their spiritual obligation to help the poor? But there is no place for this sentiment in right-wing politics, because those who fail to produce deserve to live in shit.


Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/18/15 08:46 PM)


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21825475 - 06/18/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

we have free markets in third world countries where it benefits transnational corporations. typically, we destroy vastly weaker governments and force them to be dependent on our domestic exports while destroying their local economies, thus imposing "market discipline" on entire populations in pursuit of maximizing profits. see also: haiti. that's what the "free market" really means when you see it in the media. the fact that small business owning rubes buy into fiction about the free market here is immaterial because that is the reality. even taken in the domestic sense the notion is utterly false because we have a regulated economy, even though it could be argued that our economy is not regulated enough, or perhaps the institutions that regulate it feature such a high level of infiltration that they are useless; but all of that is beside the point - the fact remains that there is a high level of planning when it comes to our economy as well as the global economy. i would equate believing otherwise to believing in the easter bunny.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (06/18/15 08:50 PM)


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InvisibleVoid_Hawk
e^(i*pi)+1 = 0
Registered: 04/15/15
Posts: 200
Loc: Sol 3
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zZZz] * 2
    #21825476 - 06/18/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

koods said:
And the counter point to this argument:

Mississippi.



Do they not watch the same TV and read the same newspapers?  The guy is right that you have to go out of your way and make an effort to be exposed to conservative thought.  Liberals live in an intellectually incestuous bubble chamber.  He is also right that they deny individualism and personal responsibility.




u guys sound like ur talking about religions




They might as well be. I like anything that starts out with sweeping generalizations like "liberals are" or "conservatives are", because it signals that whatever follows is going to be a waste if time and may be ignored.

People and their ideologies are not monolithic. The go-to claims that ideologues from either side toss out so readily are specious at best, often conveniently ignoring context or nuance in favor of simple point-scoring sound-bites. It may be fun to find the biggest caricature in a given group and then attempt to paint the entire group with this narrow brush, but this is at best a dim reflection of reality.

No wonder then that things are so gridlocked in DC. Many people, politicians and regular citizens alike, are so caught up in this binary world-view that they are literally incapable of looking at anything from a nonpartisan viewpoint. Go anywhere you like on the internet and you will find those who bring partisan political discourse into it, usually by trying to associate something "bad" with all of "those other people".

It is sad that so much of the debate is driven by the shrill idiots at the extremes. It would be nice to take the opportunities presented and have open and honest discussion about these many difficult, complex and important issues. It is hard though, when the deck is stacked with so many bent on polarizing the debate from the get-go. Therefore, typically it reduced to partisan bickering - usually with a stiff application of incorrect "facts", unfounded claims and abject hypocrisy thrown in the mix.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: millzy]
    #21825480 - 06/18/15 08:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
the "free market" is a classical liberal principle. but that principle was distorted to its utmost extreme by the reaganites in the 80's, hence the (pejorative) term "neoliberalism", which academics use to describe far right-wing ideology regarding world order and the global economy. but there i go being all informed and knowledgeable and stuff.

:pleasetellmemore:



It was destroyed by FDR.  The academics are by and large useless wankers who make a living inventing bullshit terms for their own self aggrandizement.  Neither neoliberalism nor classical liberalism has anything to do with the modern usage of the word liberalism.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21825488 - 06/18/15 08:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
We don't have a completely free market because of liberalism, like I said in my previous post, without liberalism we would still have all of the discrimination and none of the laws to protect people would exist. Conservatives want to abolish these laws......




You kep saying this and yet every time I ask you cannot come up with an example
Quote:





And I was born poor. Without welfare, I wouldn't be a contributing member of society. Yes, some brought it upon themselves. That doesn't mean everyone else should suffer. The reason substance abuse is so common among the poor and homeless is because it is an easy escape, it doesn't mean they originally became poor because of it....




There are lots of people who lifted themselves up.  None of those people are drunks.


--------------------


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
Weedbass
Male


Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Void_Hawk]
    #21825492 - 06/18/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It is because most arguments that can be made about conservatism vs. liberalism are just black and white in nature....

That is why people need to use factual information that isn't biased, and in my research liberalism viewpoints focus more on unbiased science than a book or idea.


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: millzy]
    #21825497 - 06/18/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
we have free markets in third world countries where it benefits transnational corporations. typically, we destroy vastly weaker governments and force them to be dependent on our domestic exports while destroying their local economies, thus imposing "market discipline" on entire populations in pursuit of maximizing profits. see also: haiti. that's what the "free market" really means when you see it in the media. the fact that small business owning rubes buy into fiction about the free market here is immaterial because that is the reality. even taken in the domestic sense the notion is utterly false because we have a regulated economy, even though it could be argued that our economy is not regulated enough, or perhaps the institutions that regulate it feature such a high level of infiltration that they are useless; but all of that is beside the point - the fact remains that there is a high level of planning when it comes to our economy as well as the global economy. i would equate believing otherwise to believing in the easter bunny.




We buy their stuff and they get capital.  What they do with it after that is their business.  The third world countries that we buy shit from are their own fuckups because their governments are run by kleptocrats.  Haiti is a shithole because its leaders are crooks.  The Dominican Republic, which shares the same island is relatively prosperous.  Haiti is responsible for Haiti.


--------------------


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21825501 - 06/18/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

how was the free market destroyed by FDR? i wouldn't disagree that nationalizing the economy in response to an opportunity to go to war did so, but i think that may be corollary, or perhaps complimentary, to my point that the free market never really existed because our economy has always been influenced by big fish more so than little ones. the free market is just a fairy tale conservatives use to justify their tragically flawed worldview.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleGottaloveacid
Weedbass
Male


Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21825505 - 06/18/15 08:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There are many examples... conservatives do not agree that minorities should get all the rights white christians do. It is fact and it is the building blocks of what conservatism is. Back before 1920 when the progressive movement occurred, the entire country was built on the idea of white christians owning black slaves. There was hardly, if any, separation of church and state. Most whites thought blacks were not people....

Do you know what conservatism means? It literally means wanting to keep those pre-progressive movement ideas.


You did take high school history class right?


--------------------
   
:mushroom2::mushroom2: The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends!:mushroom2::mushroom2:

wubba lubba dub dubstep :gimmebass:


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Void_Hawk]
    #21825507 - 06/18/15 08:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Void_Hawk said:
They might as well be. I like anything that starts out with sweeping generalizations like "liberals are" or "conservatives are", because it signals that whatever follows is going to be a waste if time and may be ignored.

People and their ideologies are not monolithic. The go-to claims that ideologues from either side toss out so readily are specious at best, often conveniently ignoring context or nuance in favor of simple point-scoring sound-bites. It may be fun to find the biggest caricature in a given group and then attempt to paint the entire group with this narrow brush, but this is at best a dim reflection of reality.

No wonder then that things are so gridlocked in DC. Many people, politicians and regular citizens alike, are so caught up in this binary world-view that they are literally incapable of looking at anything from a nonpartisan viewpoint. Go anywhere you like on the internet and you will find those who bring partisan political discourse into it, usually by trying to associate something "bad" with all of "those other people".

It is sad that so much of the debate is driven by the shrill idiots at the extremes. It would be nice to take the opportunities presented and have open and honest discussion about these many difficult, complex and important issues. It is hard though, when the deck is stacked with so many bent on polarizing the debate from the get-go. Therefore, typically it reduced to partisan bickering - usually with a stiff application of incorrect "facts", unfounded claims and abject hypocrisy thrown in the mix.




yea that's exactly it. u said it man. :manofapproval:


--------------------
https://discord.gg/NHHd5y2Uyv


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21825513 - 06/18/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
I don't know, maybe the religious right should ditch their focus on persecuting sexual minorities and work to provide for the actual salvation of people in actual need. How many of these so-called Christians spend their time and money on campaigns against gay liberation when all of those precious resources could be spent on fulfilling their spiritual obligation to help the poor? But there is no place for this sentiment in right-wing politics, because those who fail to produce deserve to live in shit.



I'm not gonna argue with that.  As you know, I am not that kind of conservative in regard to the social stuff.  I am all about fiscal and work.  I would further point out that the religious right tend to be quite charitable.


--------------------


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OfflineD.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
Female

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21825523 - 06/18/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
There are many examples... conservatives do not agree that minorities should get all the rights white christians do. It is fact and it is the building blocks of what conservatism is.



If you can't provide proof then why do you keep spouting the same horse shit?

Why do liberals think if you tell a lie enough times that makes it true?

Lieberals  :iveseenenough:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: So I googled "why are liberals so stupid" [Re: Gottaloveacid]
    #21825526 - 06/18/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gottaloveacid said:
There are many examples... conservatives do not agree that minorities should get all the rights white christians do. It is fact and it is the building blocks of what conservatism is. Back before 1920 when the progressive movement occurred, the entire country was built on the idea of white christians owning black slaves. There was hardly, if any, separation of church and state. Most whites thought blacks were not people....

Do you know what conservatism means? It literally means wanting to keep those pre-progressive movement ideas.


You did take high school history class right?





I went to high school long before the liberal idiots took it over.  Slavery ended long before 1920 and the Civil Rights Act was passed in the 60s by REPUBLICANS over Democrat OPPOSITION.

Now would you please provide an example of conservatives trying to take away rights that apply to this millenium?


--------------------


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