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Offlinebolbol
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Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not
    #21823753 - 06/18/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Picture
Here is a picture of the cuttings.
Thank you very much!


Edited by bolbol (06/18/15 01:55 PM)


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: bolbol] * 1
    #21824110 - 06/18/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

PC pedros.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21824327 - 06/18/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

heh, that vendor sells good cuttings..but make sure you callous them. He doesn't do a very good job leaving them to callous.

I hate the PC and non pc argument. It means absolutely nothing.


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Offlinebolbol
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21824773 - 06/18/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks!
Also is there an easy to way to tell the difference? I personally dont see any difference by looking at them but I'd appreciate it if you could tell me a few things to look out for!
Thanks again


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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: bolbol]
    #21824951 - 06/18/15 06:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thw ones in your pic are pc. Anything else is not. It's a pretty obvious clone IMO.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21825395 - 06/18/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Again, the PC thing is bullshit pushed by an amateur botanist Trout.

I have some recent cuttings from that vendor that are called PC. They look NOTHING like the other cuttings I have that are called PC. These look nothing like a half dozen plants I have that have all been Identified as PC.

Back to the original post. That guy sells cuttings from plants that are WELL watered (despite what he says) Mine came in bloated, and now I have to wait extra long for them to root. I bought the box of 8 tip cuttings. ALL of his tips are severely damaged, and will cause pupping. When I can, I will post a pic of the tips.


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Offlinebolbol
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: kosmokratorshaman]
    #21825417 - 06/18/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm this is the first time I am seeing people saying there is no such thing as PC. Last time(months ago) I posted a thread questioning the yield I had from an extraction since it was low. I went over my procedure to see if maybe I did something wrong and everyone said that the cacti were PC... so if there is no such thing as PC what makes some plants have an alkaloid content way way lower than others? Genetics alone?


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: bolbol]
    #21825449 - 06/18/15 08:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It is not that PC does not exist. Someone decided that EVERY pedro that looks similar had to be from the same original plant- a plant that had low alkaloid content. I have seed grown plants that were identified as PC. That fact alone is what made me question it in the first place.

I can post individual pics of plants that all look extremely different. They have all been grown in the same environment and cared for in the same manner. They have all been identified as this same PC.

I believe that a lot of nurseries and big stores get their supplies from the same mass propagators. That is almost certainly true. I find it difficult to believe that EVERY plant sold by them is from the same original clone now called "Predominant Cultivar" or PC>


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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: kosmokratorshaman]
    #21825563 - 06/18/15 09:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kosmokratorshaman said:

I hate the PC and non pc argument. It means absolutely nothing.




This argument will get you know where on here. It's been done to death. You either love it or you dont but me. It's great grafting stock. No need to bash your maker. :ifyoucanawe:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21825614 - 06/18/15 09:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

There is no argument really in my opinion. My truth is that people who buy into the PC story are probably the same people who buy into religion. It is their right, but the fact remains, they are wrong.

Others want to see it how they do.  I am going to explain to you why I am right. I am tired of seeing people misidentify EVERY pedro as a PC.


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Edited by kosmokratorshaman (06/18/15 09:20 PM)


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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: kosmokratorshaman]
    #21825673 - 06/18/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kosmokratorshaman said:
Again, the PC thing is bullshit pushed by an amateur botanist Trout.







Quote:

kosmokratorshaman said:
It is not that PC does not exist.






:yeahthatsfunny:



I think it's well accepted that there's PC pachanoi's in existence. Some may not of originated from the same plant but it's safe to say they're real and plants get labeled as them, to separate them from others, which is fine.


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: karode13]
    #21825690 - 06/18/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

let me clarify, since you quoted me out of context.

Claiming that the predominant cultivar is low alkaloid or inactive is bullshit. I have found plenty of anecdotal evidence online from people saying they enjoyed It very much at low doses.

The predominant cultivar exists, and I probably have more than one. In fact I am sure of it. However, I do not believe that it is junk as many would have you believe. People misidentify nearly every pedro they see as a predominant cultivar (especially if the person is stateside)


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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: kosmokratorshaman]
    #21825726 - 06/18/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Claiming that the predominant cultivar is low alkaloid or inactive is bullshit. I have found plenty of anecdotal evidence online from people saying they enjoyed It very much at low doses.





I can show you posts about people tripping or getting high off all sorts of inactive plants and mushrooms. People's posts on the internet stating this or that about something have to be taken with a massive grain of salt, most of them posting these days are children. Anything stronger than coffee will have them waxing lyrical about the experience. The extractions of PC pedro that are published by science do not back your claims.


Quote:

The predominant cultivar exists, and I probably have more than one. In fact I am sure of it. However, I do not believe that it is junk as many would have you believe. People misidentify nearly every pedro they see as a predominant cultivar (especially if the person is stateside)





Some I also think are more potent than others, I'm not sure though as I've not extracted enough of them to make a decision yet. For the most part I think it can be agreed that people who are after strong medicine or collecting potent plants should look elsewhere than PC pachanoi. I love the plant itself, it looks great, flowers like whore and grafting to it pleases me, because their speed at pumping a scion is second to none. I also do not support vendors who over charge for this cultivar, people should be paying that kind of coin for better genetics, ie: Higher Mescaline plants.


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: karode13]
    #21825768 - 06/18/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I will agree that people often do embellish stories. I cannot give first hand experience on actual alkaloid percentages because I have never bioassayed a plant. Also, I do not partake in eating san pedros.

Can you post or PM me a link or a name of a particular study that I can research. Any new data always filters into my final opinion.

If you are after strong medicine, and did not want to ingest peyote, wouldn't bridgesii be the way to go?

I have only grafted to pereskiopsis and blue myrtles so far. I am currently rooting a series of small pedro tips that I eventually want to graft to.


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Offlinebolbol
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: karode13]
    #21825788 - 06/18/15 10:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ok soooo now that everyone agrees on PDs existence.. how does one differentiate between the two by just looking at pictures?


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: bolbol]
    #21825807 - 06/18/15 10:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bolbol said:
Ok soooo now that everyone agrees on PDs existence.. how does one differentiate between the two by just looking at pictures?




A lot of misidentification


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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: bolbol]
    #21825840 - 06/18/15 10:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Can you post or PM me a link or a name of a particular study that I can research. Any new data always filters into my final opinion.




Just for PC pachanoi?

I'd suggest you read Keeper Trout's books. Most of the studies are listed in there and have references so you can track down the studies yourself. I currently don't have the time to track down and send them to you, I'm supposed to be doing other things instead of posting on the internet. If I have time later I might be able to.



Quote:

If you are after strong medicine, and did not want to ingest peyote, wouldn't bridgesii be the way to go?





Yeah probably. It depends on what you're after. Bridgesii's are gruntier than Pachanoi's. They can push people too far due to their pushiness...:lol:







Quote:

bolbol said:
Ok soooo now that everyone agrees on PDs existence.. how does one differentiate between the two by just looking at pictures?





May as well read the article that started it all to understand.>>>>http://largelyaccurateinformationmedia.com/LAIM/pedro/pedro_02.html It's not easy to tell sometimes and you'll gain more experience and insight into these plants the more years you keep growing them, and also seeing them grow in varying environmental conditions.


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Offlinekosmokratorshaman
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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: karode13]
    #21825861 - 06/18/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Trout is a freaking joke. Sorry you could not give me a scientific study. I too have not found any studies that really prove anything.

I expected a better response. Very surprised.

EDIT: Im stepping away from this one. I do not wish to argue. I obviously will not change my mind based on my research. Karode is not going to change his opinion either. Others with knowledge will believe what they believe....and the majority of people will just regurgitate what they have read and been told repeatedly over time.


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Edited by kosmokratorshaman (06/18/15 10:23 PM)


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Re: Need some help to ID if these san pedros are PC or not [Re: kosmokratorshaman] * 2
    #21825889 - 06/18/15 10:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well keep discrediting the man then. The books do contain scientific references to what you're asking for, it's not my fault your hatred blinds you. It's not a book of fallacy and the man is a giving, logical person. As I came to realise when I met him a few years ago. Not one to talk shit about others without reading their work.

Again, read his books and look for the references. After that, find the papers referenced and add up the figures. You wanted information and it's all in his books. I'm not going to parrot it here for you.


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