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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin?
    #2182318 - 12/16/03 01:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

...or psilocine, or Baetocystine or whatever?

Is it possible to isolate a clone that you could grow a pound of dry mushrooms, and eat them, and not get off?

Has anyone ever eaten mushrooms that they grew and not been able to get off on them?

Anecdotes are welcome.


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OfflineVertigo
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2182346 - 12/16/03 01:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

To what end would this be desireable?


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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Vertigo]
    #2182356 - 12/16/03 01:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

We all waste time in our own ways! I think that would be cool, cos you could sell yer shrooms to the organic market!


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Vertigo]
    #2182423 - 12/16/03 02:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

On account of the benificial phytoglygic malookolo cydes present in cubensis.


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OfflineVertigo
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2182436 - 12/16/03 02:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

??????
I'm assuming you didn't make that up so what is it?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Vertigo]
    #2182440 - 12/16/03 02:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Really?

Um... it's good for your hair.


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OfflineVertigo
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2182444 - 12/16/03 02:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

that's what I thought.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Vertigo]
    #2182449 - 12/16/03 02:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Seriously. I'm going to make shampoo out of it.  :oogle:


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OfflineVertigo
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2182473 - 12/16/03 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Does it provide conditioning in that same bottle for the soft manageable hair one always wants?  :thumbup:


--------------------
"One side will make you grow taller, and the other side will make you grow shorter."


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2182481 - 12/16/03 02:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well, the mushroom isnt illegal, its what is in it that is illegal.

u could grow pounds and pounds of them, and they wouldnt find any psychoactives, so they aint got shit on you. You could sell em and not get busted for shit, cuz there aint nothing illegal about em. Could rip off your enemies with no worry of them being a cop, cuz even if they were, ahahah WTF THEY GONNA DO ABOUT IT!?

hmm good idea, im sure its possible.


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OfflineGranola
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2182671 - 12/16/03 03:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Really?

Um... it's good for your hair.




so is a little spunk.


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OfflineGranola
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: ]
    #2182678 - 12/16/03 03:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kottonmouth said:
You could sell em and not get busted for shit, cuz there aint nothing illegal about em. Could rip off your enemies with no worry of them being a cop, cuz even if they were, ahahah WTF THEY GONNA DO ABOUT IT!?




actualy there have been alot of people busted for selling fake drugs to cops, the penalty is the same.


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Offlinehaz
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Granola]
    #2182695 - 12/16/03 03:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That would be dumb... they dont even taste good to eat... its like if you want something wihtout fuck you up effects, grow something edible.


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OfflineFcuerkt
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: haz]
    #2182861 - 12/16/03 04:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

he could use impotent shrooms to test potency teks, he could add phalaris bark to the substrate and get only DMT related chemicals.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #2182891 - 12/16/03 05:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This isn't about producing psilocybin.

It's about hair care products.

"Gee your hair smellz liek b00MerZ" will take the cosmetic world by storm.


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2183035 - 12/16/03 05:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Does all the indole alkaloids produced in a psilocybe come from the tryptamine precursors in the growth medium? If so, use a growth medium which lacks them. Or find some method of denaturing the target alkaloids.

mycomancer


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Granola]
    #2183090 - 12/16/03 05:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

actualy there have been alot of people busted for selling fake drugs to cops, the penalty is the same.




i guess your right. but with a good lawyer, that aint shit to get out of.


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OfflinePaul808996
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2183117 - 12/16/03 05:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

this would be kind of like the weed they sell in high time magazines without thc so its legal. personally, i don't see the point in either


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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: Mycomancer]
    #2183141 - 12/16/03 06:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The substrate most likely does not contain Indoles, if it did then all know substrates for psilo cultivation would contain Indoles also. They can fruit from agar, and theres only a few ingredients in that so I highly doubt there is an Indole-less substrate out there.

You would need to effectively change the mushroom genetics, by selective breeding or by mutation, both of which would require a long time for experimentation.

Seeing how some Indoles are known for there anti-mutagenic qualities (e.g. sunscreen, anti-cancer to us, antioxidants, etc...) I believe that psilocybin and psilocin are protective chemicals that the mushrooms produce for themselves, leading me to believe that this trait could not be easily removed.


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2183183 - 12/16/03 06:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In canada everything except DRIED mushrooms ARE LEGAL, so theres your research country.
:smile:
home sweet home
oh and LEGAL OR NOT........growers of PSILOCYBIN containing mushrooms WILL develop NEW ideas and TEKS with or without legal status, so a psilocybin free mushroom seem pointless, also it might not be good for the mushroom as psilocybin is part of the mushrooms development.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2183210 - 12/16/03 06:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Some of you might not have any use for a legal cubensis cultivar, if so then this thread isn't really for you.


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: twiddling_mind]
    #2183325 - 12/16/03 07:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Many good points...although:

Quote:


The substrate most likely does not contain Indoles




Are you saying that substrates do not contain indoles, or:

Quote:

... so I highly doubt there is an Indole-less substrate out there.




that they do?

I think they must vary in tryptamine content. I was basically wondering if all the necessary precursors for the production of said psychotropic alkaloids are absorbed from the substrate (as there are experiments that showed increased tryptophan in substrate resulted in greated psilocin content) or if the organism is capable of producing them in indole-less environment.

mycomancer


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Mycomancer]
    #2183445 - 12/16/03 07:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The fungus makes tryptophan. It then makes the goodies from tryptophan.

Very little tryptophan is available in the substrate, and the majority of it that is taken in probably gets used as a nitrogen source for Primary growth.


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Offlinehaz
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: ]
    #2183492 - 12/16/03 07:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hair care products? Are you for real or just trying to be funny?


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Offlinetwiddling_mind
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: ]
    #2183518 - 12/16/03 08:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Though the mushies may produce tryptophan then convert that to psilocin (humans use tryptophan as a precurson for neurotransmitters), we can easily sum everything up by saying... Substate provides the fungus with nutrients for energy that the genetics use however they say to, whether it be to produce new mycelia or to produce psilocin.

The only way to really know is to do some experiments. Use a cloned strain, fruit some normal "control" cakes, fruit a few varied Indole test cakes, and finally do separate extractions on each cakes fruit to determine the average potency of the cakes. Or just have some dried fruit on the side that you ingest and test... :smile:


hope this helps, though i accidentaly started talking about adding precursors to the substrate (i'm high  :tongue:)


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: Mycomancer]
    #2183568 - 12/16/03 08:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The only actual study i know of used tryptamine. Which bypasses the natural synthesis of Psilocybin and psilocin.

The regulation (control) of goodie production lies in the availability of a single sugar and a single energy metabolite that enables tryptophan to be produced by the fungus.

The gartz study was good, becasue it showed that sufficent enzymes exist to convert tryptamine to psilocybin, at higher then normal rates. Nothing was stopping it, no control. The enzymes were there waiting for available tryptamine.
It is bad in the sense that EVERYONE and the brother seems to be focused on the enzymatic pathway between tryptophan and Psiolcybin/psilocin. But naturally occuring Psilocybin /psilocin is manufactured from tryptophan that is produced by the mushroom. Very little tryptophan occurs in the substrate, and what is there is usually used for primary metabolism as a nitrogen source.

I think the more important study is the regulation of trypotphan uptake, and where it goes, and how it is used.
Another important study is to understand what regulates the use of the pentose shunt versus the EM pathway of glycolosis. Because it is the pentose shunt that produces the single sugar that is responsible for tryptophan.
Another is to understand how the biosynthetic pathways of lipid production are regulated becasue it is responsible for the production of the energy metabolite used with the single sugar to make tryptophan. As the mushroom growth slows, storage increases, so this system is still very active, but at some point the energy product is siphoned off and used to make tryptophan. How much of this energy product is siphoined off, and what regulates it.

I see it like this. Primary metabolism(growth) slows, storage phase kicks in, and the Pentose shunt intermediates become more available. The intermediate from the shunt is used in combination with the more readily available energy source from the lipid synthesis, and secondary metabolism goes into overdrive. Tryptophan is produced, and from there it goes to psilocybin/psilocin.

I'm also curious as to when the tryptamine was added to the substrate, and how much of it was actually used to make the goodies, and how much got broken up to be used during primary metabolism.

I think way to much time is spent focusing on what we can add to the substrate to make more goodies. It is one thing to try an optimize the nutritional content of the substrate to make natural processes work more efficiently. It is another to add drugs to the substrate to make other drugs.

Ie. Indoles to the substrate. These things can enter the synthesis at the end. Like adding psilocybin to make psilocin!!!

How much psilocybin do you have to add to the substrate to make x amount of psilocin? Was it worth it?

Understanding is knowing how the mushroom can turn nitrogen into Psilocybin, becasue in the end that is what it is doing naturally.

By no means is this a negative statement against anyone wishing to waste Tryptamine on a flush of shrooms, just my opinion on how non-contributing the result would be to knowledge.

WE already know that it is possible, gartz showed us that. Unfortunaetly he did not show us where the rest of the tryptamine went!!!


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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: ]
    #2183682 - 12/16/03 09:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

did he give potency information?


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: twiddling_mind]
    #2183719 - 12/16/03 09:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, but I don't think they tested where all the tryptamine went. They were focused entirely on what the end Psilocin/psilocybin content was. And what it was before supplementation.

before it ws rediculously low, like .5 percent total, and after up to 3 % or so. Psilocybin was reduced a little, and psilocin was increased drastically.

Again this is like adding Psilocybin to produce psilocin. It shows nothing about how the mushroom actually produces the goodies in the wild.

Tryptophan is manufactured by the mushroom and it uses this to start the enzymatic process to convert into Psilocybin/psilocin. My problem is, that ALOT of the tryptophan you add into the substrate will be used as a nitrogen source for primary growth, long before secondary metabolism starts.

Remember the mushroom is interested in building new cells and all that means. It utilizes everything it can to do this. Even the tryptophan that might be in the substrate. It doesn't stash the stuff, until it is used for secondary metabolism. It can produce it's own, once things turn away from primary growth and toward storage/ reproductive phase.

It seems that folks around here forget that Tryptophan can be eaten as food. It isn't labled for secondary metabolite production only. When the fungus encounters it in the environmnet, that is what it does, it uses it to build more fungus. When growth slows and physiology changes, then tryptophan becomes important for producing the goodies.

Timing of application might become important with tryptophan supplementation. I would think it would work best when added after colonization of the substrate, via a Contaminant free solution(tryptophan/water), when the fungus enters the storage phase.


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OfflinefIsh in my head
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2183733 - 12/16/03 09:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In canada everything except DRIED mushrooms ARE LEGAL, so theres your research country.




Uh.. can you back this off with some official text laws?!


.fs.


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Offlinejong21
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2183886 - 12/16/03 10:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I read an article that some scientists are trying to isolate the gene in marijuana that creates thc. If they can understand this gene they could splice it with other species, meaning it is possible that they could turn regular plants into regular plants the contain thc.

That'd be cool. Let's see the government try to keep thc illegal after that.


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OfflineGregHimself
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: fIsh in my head]
    #2183887 - 12/16/03 10:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This is complete and utter bullshit, it is NOT legal to posses mushrooms, dried or fresh, psilocybin is considered a Table III controlled substance, which carries with a maximum term of 10 years for production of said substance. Thanks for spreading the rumor that canada is mushroom friendly...they arent! You CAN go to jail for growing them, fresh or dried doesnt matter!


--------------------
"The key to successful cultivation is to match the skills of the cultivator with the right strain on the proper substrate under ideal environmental conditions."
Paul Stamets
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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: GregHimself]
    #2184423 - 12/17/03 03:13 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I dont think so greg!

As far as I know....and I have been looking up stuff about canadas drug laws for days now...mushrooms in ALL STAGES ARE LEGAL, except dried!!.

If bill C-7 passed then this is not the case but bill C-7 didnt pass from what I know and in CANADA like most other countries in the UN mushrooms are legal in every state except dried.

Dried mushrooms are the ONLY thing illegal in canada , but maybe since you are living in canada's "little texas" you dont feel they are......come to BC greg where its nicer.

Any other canadians want to chime in and repeat the laws????
seesh


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2184858 - 12/17/03 10:32 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You're all overlooking the fact that b00MerZ are good for yor nutsack as well.

Can't you people see that?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2185635 - 12/17/03 05:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I can't see it but I feel it.


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