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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2183210 - 12/17/03 01:20 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Some of you might not have any use for a legal cubensis cultivar, if so then this thread isn't really for you.


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InvisibleMycomancer
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: twiddling_mind]
    #2183325 - 12/17/03 02:01 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Many good points...although:

Quote:


The substrate most likely does not contain Indoles




Are you saying that substrates do not contain indoles, or:

Quote:

... so I highly doubt there is an Indole-less substrate out there.




that they do?

I think they must vary in tryptamine content. I was basically wondering if all the necessary precursors for the production of said psychotropic alkaloids are absorbed from the substrate (as there are experiments that showed increased tryptophan in substrate resulted in greated psilocin content) or if the organism is capable of producing them in indole-less environment.

mycomancer


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Mycomancer]
    #2183445 - 12/17/03 02:35 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The fungus makes tryptophan. It then makes the goodies from tryptophan.

Very little tryptophan is available in the substrate, and the majority of it that is taken in probably gets used as a nitrogen source for Primary growth.


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Offlinehaz
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: ]
    #2183492 - 12/17/03 02:54 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hair care products? Are you for real or just trying to be funny?


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Offlinetwiddling_mind
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: ]
    #2183518 - 12/17/03 03:07 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Though the mushies may produce tryptophan then convert that to psilocin (humans use tryptophan as a precurson for neurotransmitters), we can easily sum everything up by saying... Substate provides the fungus with nutrients for energy that the genetics use however they say to, whether it be to produce new mycelia or to produce psilocin.

The only way to really know is to do some experiments. Use a cloned strain, fruit some normal "control" cakes, fruit a few varied Indole test cakes, and finally do separate extractions on each cakes fruit to determine the average potency of the cakes. Or just have some dried fruit on the side that you ingest and test... :smile:


hope this helps, though i accidentaly started talking about adding precursors to the substrate (i'm high  :tongue:)


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: Mycomancer]
    #2183568 - 12/17/03 03:26 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

The only actual study i know of used tryptamine. Which bypasses the natural synthesis of Psilocybin and psilocin.

The regulation (control) of goodie production lies in the availability of a single sugar and a single energy metabolite that enables tryptophan to be produced by the fungus.

The gartz study was good, becasue it showed that sufficent enzymes exist to convert tryptamine to psilocybin, at higher then normal rates. Nothing was stopping it, no control. The enzymes were there waiting for available tryptamine.
It is bad in the sense that EVERYONE and the brother seems to be focused on the enzymatic pathway between tryptophan and Psiolcybin/psilocin. But naturally occuring Psilocybin /psilocin is manufactured from tryptophan that is produced by the mushroom. Very little tryptophan occurs in the substrate, and what is there is usually used for primary metabolism as a nitrogen source.

I think the more important study is the regulation of trypotphan uptake, and where it goes, and how it is used.
Another important study is to understand what regulates the use of the pentose shunt versus the EM pathway of glycolosis. Because it is the pentose shunt that produces the single sugar that is responsible for tryptophan.
Another is to understand how the biosynthetic pathways of lipid production are regulated becasue it is responsible for the production of the energy metabolite used with the single sugar to make tryptophan. As the mushroom growth slows, storage increases, so this system is still very active, but at some point the energy product is siphoned off and used to make tryptophan. How much of this energy product is siphoined off, and what regulates it.

I see it like this. Primary metabolism(growth) slows, storage phase kicks in, and the Pentose shunt intermediates become more available. The intermediate from the shunt is used in combination with the more readily available energy source from the lipid synthesis, and secondary metabolism goes into overdrive. Tryptophan is produced, and from there it goes to psilocybin/psilocin.

I'm also curious as to when the tryptamine was added to the substrate, and how much of it was actually used to make the goodies, and how much got broken up to be used during primary metabolism.

I think way to much time is spent focusing on what we can add to the substrate to make more goodies. It is one thing to try an optimize the nutritional content of the substrate to make natural processes work more efficiently. It is another to add drugs to the substrate to make other drugs.

Ie. Indoles to the substrate. These things can enter the synthesis at the end. Like adding psilocybin to make psilocin!!!

How much psilocybin do you have to add to the substrate to make x amount of psilocin? Was it worth it?

Understanding is knowing how the mushroom can turn nitrogen into Psilocybin, becasue in the end that is what it is doing naturally.

By no means is this a negative statement against anyone wishing to waste Tryptamine on a flush of shrooms, just my opinion on how non-contributing the result would be to knowledge.

WE already know that it is possible, gartz showed us that. Unfortunaetly he did not show us where the rest of the tryptamine went!!!


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Offlinetwiddling_mind
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: ]
    #2183682 - 12/17/03 04:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

did he give potency information?


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Anonymous

Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin [Re: twiddling_mind]
    #2183719 - 12/17/03 04:29 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, but I don't think they tested where all the tryptamine went. They were focused entirely on what the end Psilocin/psilocybin content was. And what it was before supplementation.

before it ws rediculously low, like .5 percent total, and after up to 3 % or so. Psilocybin was reduced a little, and psilocin was increased drastically.

Again this is like adding Psilocybin to produce psilocin. It shows nothing about how the mushroom actually produces the goodies in the wild.

Tryptophan is manufactured by the mushroom and it uses this to start the enzymatic process to convert into Psilocybin/psilocin. My problem is, that ALOT of the tryptophan you add into the substrate will be used as a nitrogen source for primary growth, long before secondary metabolism starts.

Remember the mushroom is interested in building new cells and all that means. It utilizes everything it can to do this. Even the tryptophan that might be in the substrate. It doesn't stash the stuff, until it is used for secondary metabolism. It can produce it's own, once things turn away from primary growth and toward storage/ reproductive phase.

It seems that folks around here forget that Tryptophan can be eaten as food. It isn't labled for secondary metabolite production only. When the fungus encounters it in the environmnet, that is what it does, it uses it to build more fungus. When growth slows and physiology changes, then tryptophan becomes important for producing the goodies.

Timing of application might become important with tryptophan supplementation. I would think it would work best when added after colonization of the substrate, via a Contaminant free solution(tryptophan/water), when the fungus enters the storage phase.


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OfflinefIsh in my head
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2183733 - 12/17/03 04:35 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

In canada everything except DRIED mushrooms ARE LEGAL, so theres your research country.




Uh.. can you back this off with some official text laws?!


.fs.


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Offlinejong21
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2183886 - 12/17/03 05:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I read an article that some scientists are trying to isolate the gene in marijuana that creates thc. If they can understand this gene they could splice it with other species, meaning it is possible that they could turn regular plants into regular plants the contain thc.

That'd be cool. Let's see the government try to keep thc illegal after that.


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OfflineGregHimself
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: fIsh in my head]
    #2183887 - 12/17/03 05:40 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This is complete and utter bullshit, it is NOT legal to posses mushrooms, dried or fresh, psilocybin is considered a Table III controlled substance, which carries with a maximum term of 10 years for production of said substance. Thanks for spreading the rumor that canada is mushroom friendly...they arent! You CAN go to jail for growing them, fresh or dried doesnt matter!


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: GregHimself]
    #2184423 - 12/17/03 10:13 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I dont think so greg!

As far as I know....and I have been looking up stuff about canadas drug laws for days now...mushrooms in ALL STAGES ARE LEGAL, except dried!!.

If bill C-7 passed then this is not the case but bill C-7 didnt pass from what I know and in CANADA like most other countries in the UN mushrooms are legal in every state except dried.

Dried mushrooms are the ONLY thing illegal in canada , but maybe since you are living in canada's "little texas" you dont feel they are......come to BC greg where its nicer.

Any other canadians want to chime in and repeat the laws????
seesh


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #2184858 - 12/17/03 05:32 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You're all overlooking the fact that b00MerZ are good for yor nutsack as well.

Can't you people see that?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Is it possible to grow a cubensis that has NO psilocybin? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2185635 - 12/18/03 12:37 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I can't see it but I feel it.


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