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OfflinePaul808996
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Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 47
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
casing question
    #2182258 - 12/16/03 01:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i'm just wondering how much of a differance in terms of yeild would there be when casing using verm and coir compared to only verm. does coir provide any nutrients or does it just hold more water.


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OfflineVertigo
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Re: casing question [Re: Paul808996]
    #2182355 - 12/16/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

only h2o


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OfflineLateForTheFuture
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Re: casing question [Re: Paul808996]
    #2182397 - 12/16/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Coir  provides many nutrients for the cakes, NOT just h2o. Coir is simply a fantastic substitute for peat sphagnum moss. I highly reccomend using coir instead of straight verm, as verm is non nutritious and is only used to retain water. I know I get my best flushes with coir :laugh: (besides straw and poo, of course.)


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Offlinezbgeed
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Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2182406 - 12/16/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

if you were making a casing wouldnt nutrients be a bad thing? that would just bring on contaminates wouldnt it?


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OfflineLateForTheFuture
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Re: casing question [Re: zbgeed]
    #2182656 - 12/16/03 03:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Not neccesarily... I have a 0 contam rate, I just have good sterile procedures, thats all. Just look at the pictures in the grow log forums and you'll see how "bad" nutrients can be (lets hope you sense that sarcasm...). The nutrients found in BRF, coir, poo, etc... are all good. They help your fungus get nice and big :smile:

If these nutrients were "bad", people would be injecting jars full of just moist vermiculite, wouldn't they? Go for the 60/40 coir my friend, its a great way of doing things. You shouldn't have contaminants if your procedures are good - I just did a batch of 70 jars with a 0% contam rate... Every casing I've ever done has came out great too. I always microwave my casing layer, 5 minutes (stir), then 5 minutes again. Buy some rubber gloves,  99% rubbing alcohol, and lysol, and that should all help out a whole lot. Good luck in whatever you choose to do :laugh:


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Anonymous

Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2182734 - 12/16/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

according to http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23435

"The term "casing" as it is used in the mushroom cultivation is the method by which substrate (either PF style cakes or colonized grain) is crumbled into smaller pieces, and covered with a non -nutritive layer such as peat, vermiculite, coco coir and different mixtures with additives."


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OfflineLateForTheFuture
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Re: casing question [Re: four20snakeman]
    #2182762 - 12/16/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm... I disagree that coir/peat or other additives are non-nutritive. Thats the same as saying soil is non-nutritive. Vermiculite, on the other hand, simply retains water. If they had no "nutrients" then why use different kinds of casing layers, such as poo? If it was "non-nutritive", then you wouldn't be accomplishing much IMO. The fungus needs "nutrients", or a food, to grow. Maybe it depends on your definition of a nutrient? Mycelium colonizes a jar because of the BRF inside, which is a "food" to the mycelium. Cultivators add the BRF for a reason, just as you add the coir to your casing layer for a reason.


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InvisibleComfortably_Numb
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Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2182782 - 12/16/03 04:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Is it necessary to case your coco coir with limestone flour?


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Anonymous

Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2182785 - 12/16/03 04:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yes, but the reason is water retention, not nutrition. you dont want a nutrient rich topping, imagine the contam issues. BRF/Verm is a substrate which is a lot different than a casing layer, without the nutrients in the substrate you would have nothing.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: casing question [Re: Paul808996]
    #2182836 - 12/16/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I belive the biggest purpose for using these casing layers casing layers such as peat and coc vary in results purely on thier water retainment, contamination resistance, ariation factors, and on a lesser scale nutrients. Yes Coc does give good results, but I belive that this is because of its supurb water distrubility, retainment and the excellet ariation it provides for the substrate. The substrate to me, and in my minds eye makes more sense in where most nutrents come from in terms of food or something. Nutrients from millet, grain, ground rice....any startches and so on. I havent studies this area, but through practical and observation, this is the conclusion and opinion I have in this area of question :tongue:


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2182873 - 12/16/03 04:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

LateForTheFuture said:
Hmm... I disagree that coir/peat or other additives are non-nutritive. Thats the same as saying soil is non-nutritive. Vermiculite, on the other hand, simply retains water. If they had no "nutrients" then why use different kinds of casing layers, such as poo? If it was "non-nutritive", then you wouldn't be accomplishing much IMO. The fungus needs "nutrients", or a food, to grow. Maybe it depends on your definition of a nutrient? Mycelium colonizes a jar because of the BRF inside, which is a "food" to the mycelium. Cultivators add the BRF for a reason, just as you add the coir to your casing layer for a reason.




You my friend, are confused as to what a casing layer is. Poo is not a casing layer, it is a substrate. So is brf, straw, wbs, grain, etc. Anything that has any nutritive value should only be added to the substrate. Casing layers should be comprised only of non-nutritive substances that aid in the retention of water. The reason for adding coco coir is to help retain water, nothing else.


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Anonymous

Re: casing question [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2182894 - 12/16/03 05:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

looks for the applause smiley. well said to both of yous^^ :smile:


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: casing question [Re: Ekstaza]
    #2182903 - 12/16/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

EKSTAZA: "Anything that has any nutritive value should only be added to the substrate. Casing layers should be comprised only of non-nutritive substances that aid in the retention of water. The reason for adding coco coir is to help retain water, nothing else."....

Yeah, what I was thinking. Coir is an aswom retainer of water...no nutrients. And Ive been hearing things about it being resistant to contams a little better than some other stuff. .....My point is, yeah, its just to retain and distribute water. Substrates are the nutrition (if you wanna call it that) part......

I wasnt sure, but thanks for backing my guess up EKSTAZA.


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OfflineLateForTheFuture
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Re: casing question [Re: Northernsoul]
    #2182949 - 12/16/03 05:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Interesting. Thanks guys, we definitely needed some second opinions.

Although I agree, I still remain resolved that coco coir is a nutritive substance. Hypothetically, could a colonized piece of coir could in fact be used as a substrate, am I right? I am currently growing some Venus Fly Traps in pure coir, so tell me, how is this possible if it is "non-nutritive" as you say? I simply cannot see how coir is lacking of any nutrients, as I'm sure it possesses some if any. "non-nutritive" would mean it consists of none.

I could be wrong, who knows. Thats my input. Besides all that, back to the main point-- I say go for the verm and coir mixture.


Edited by LateForTheFuture (12/16/03 05:29 PM)


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OfflinePaul808996
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2183192 - 12/16/03 06:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

thanks for all the replys. it seems to me that a casing in general is non-nutritios(like verm). things added to the casing may be nutritious such as peat or coir, but the more nutritious they are the higher the chance of contams. peat and coir probly are low in nuriants or are fairly resistant to contams, and thats probly why they work so well. I'm know peat has nutriants in it(otherwise you wouldn't be able to grow plants in it). Coir probly does too and thats why you get bigger flushers useing either of those instead of just vermaculite. If it was just because of water retention then wouldn't casing with just verm result in the biggest flushes because it retains the most water. that is just what i've come to think based on all the information.

also, does any one know of any pics or grow logs of casings using straight verm?
thanks


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Offlinezbgeed
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Re: casing question [Re: Paul808996]
    #2183230 - 12/16/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

one was just made by a friend. yesterday. today the mycleium came through in a few spots.


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InvisibleHanky
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Re: casing question [Re: Paul808996]
    #2184167 - 12/17/03 12:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i only ever use straight coir for casings now,no lime,oyster shells or any other ph buffer.
here's why.



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[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
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Offlinellamaboy
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Re: casing question [Re: LateForTheFuture]
    #2184298 - 12/17/03 01:42 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

just a thought about that venus fly trap remark...the reason that it is most likely growing is because that is how it evolved...in it's natural enviroment a venus flytrap is happy in a swamp area, which are usually high in nitrogen...when something is living in something so nitrogenous as swamp soil, something peculiar happens. the nitrogen keeps the plant from being able to obtain sustinance from the soil in which it resides. the intresting thing about venus fly traps is that they evolved to catch bugs, and thus circumvent obtaining their nutrition from the soil...all the nutrition that a venus fly trap needs come from what it catches...also, if you grow you venus flytrap on a nutrious well adjusted soil, you should not feed it, as it will most likely die


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Oyster Shell, Peat, Scales, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed, pH Test Strips

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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