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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Acaterpillar]
#21823562 - 06/18/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Acaterpillar said:
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Patlal said: How about less gun death and less crime? Both go hand in hand. Don't you want that?
Maybe things are different up in Canada, but owning a gun does not make you more likely of committing a crime. 
Poverty and crime go hand in hand. Not guns. Do some reading on socioeconomics if you wanna form a convincing argument.
In my experience living across Canada, the idea of gun ownership is a terrifying thing that people complain will lead to more violence -- if the person being questioned lives in one of the large urban areas of the country.
If you ask people about gun ownership across Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba many individuals think that the strictness of Canada's laws are bullshit -- most people I grew up around owned guns and all of us learned gun safety and went hunting growing up.
Not sure if that provides any insights, but there are some large discrepancies of attitude across the country.
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plektheplek



Registered: 06/18/11
Posts: 3,287
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Tantrika]
#21823570 - 06/18/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was doubting the "hate crime" portion of the story until I read the most recent article on CNN
The shooter claimed to be there "to kill black people" according to the most recent story
You know those people who just look like they need a "scumbag" tattoo on their forehead? The shooter was one of 'em
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,061
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 19 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823607 - 06/18/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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D.M.T said: Not only do some places like Idaho and North Dakota have high gun ownership and very low gun death rates, they are also among the healthiest states in the US. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/13/most-healthy-states_n_6320630.html
Your theory of firearms lowering life expectancy must not mean much.
Seems pretty convincing to me. Idaho (14.1 per 100k) and North Dakota(11.8) have a higher than then the national average (10.4)
You have to go all the way down to 22 in the list of states with the highest gun death rate to find a blue state - 24/25 of the top states are red states.
http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Acaterpillar]
#21823609 - 06/18/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acaterpillar said:
Also saying "even a Mexican can do it" makes you out to be a pretentious twat.
Don't have a choice to beapparently me being canadian means that it is impossible to know absolutely anything about the US as if I'm i'm in another galaxy. You guys are very fast on trigger about it too. Istead of discussion I get "you're a Canadian you can't possibly know shit". Therefore I have to respond with shit like this. I'm not proud of it, but I have to do what I have to do
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Astral Pain]
#21823619 - 06/18/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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White people are allowed in the church but it has primarily black congregants and ministers
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T] 1
#21823622 - 06/18/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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D.M.T said: I don't know why Patlal is even trying to look at it by state and claim victory to his argument that way when most gun violence is done in urban areas anyway. It's the urban areas that make the most violent states have such high numbers, and those urban areas pretty much all tend to be liberal cities that promote gun control.
I'm simply trying to convince.
I claimed victory long ago when I studied the numbers of all the other modern nations
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal] 2
#21823624 - 06/18/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Patlal said:
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D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
There are clearly more red states in the top 10 than blue states. After a quick glance. I can stretch that number to top 25
The gun violence takes place in the inner cities, why the hell are you focusing on red and blue states? 
http://www.takepart.com/photos/gun-homicides/gun-homicides-america-where-bullets-are-flying
It's Detroit, Philly, Cleveland, New Orleans, Baltimore, Oakland, Chicago, and other cities where the senseless gun violence takes place.
Are you starting to see a common theme here? There's civilized people that own guns and there's no problem, and there's uncivilized people that also own guns and then everything goes to shit.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: qman]
#21823635 - 06/18/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
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D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
There are clearly more red states in the top 10 than blue states. After a quick glance. I can stretch that number to top 25
The gun violence takes place in the inner cities, why the hell are you focusing on red and blue states? 
http://www.takepart.com/photos/gun-homicides/gun-homicides-america-where-bullets-are-flying
It's Detroit, Philly, Cleveland, New Orleans, Baltimore, Oakland, Chicago, and other cities where the senseless gun violence takes place.
Are you starting to see a common theme here? There's civilized people that own guns and there's no problem, and there's uncivilized people that also own guns and then everything goes to shit.
Alright then. Let's move on to cities if you like.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal] 1
#21823641 - 06/18/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I mean we can talk blue states, red states, purple stuff, orange juice, anything really.
Still doesn't change the fact that more guns = more homicide
Kinda like how having a pool increases your chances of drowing in your backyard
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Edited by Patlal (06/18/15 01:32 PM)
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823649 - 06/18/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
D.M.T said: Not only do some places like Idaho and North Dakota have high gun ownership and very low gun death rates, they are also among the healthiest states in the US. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/13/most-healthy-states_n_6320630.html
Your theory of firearms lowering life expectancy must not mean much.
Seems pretty convincing to me. Idaho (14.1 per 100k) and North Dakota(11.8) have a higher than then the national average (10.4)
You have to go all the way down to 22 in the list of states with the highest gun death rate to find a blue state - 24/25 of the top states are red states.
http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/
That's because people who commit suicide like to use guns, hence why Alaska is so high on the list.
When it comes to gun violence it's irrelevant like me and Patlal were talking about, it's irrelevant. Liberal shithole cities are where most of it is occurring.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823656 - 06/18/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
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D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
There are clearly more red states in the top 10 than blue states. After a quick glance. I can stretch that number to top 25
The gun violence takes place in the inner cities, why the hell are you focusing on red and blue states? 
http://www.takepart.com/photos/gun-homicides/gun-homicides-america-where-bullets-are-flying
It's Detroit, Philly, Cleveland, New Orleans, Baltimore, Oakland, Chicago, and other cities where the senseless gun violence takes place.
Are you starting to see a common theme here? There's civilized people that own guns and there's no problem, and there's uncivilized people that also own guns and then everything goes to shit.
Alright then. Let's move on to cities if you like.
How many of the top 100 dangerous cities (population higher than 50,000) in the US are conservative?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,061
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 19 minutes, 19 seconds
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823662 - 06/18/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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So, you're agreeing that guns lower life expectancy?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Last seen: 4 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823668 - 06/18/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Patlal said: I mean we can talk blue states, red states, purple stuff, orange juice, anything really.
Still doesn't change the fact that more guns = more homicide
It doesn't change the fact that many of the people that live in those inner cities aren't still going to be violent criminals.
How do you want the innocent citizens to protect themselves from the violent criminals? Baseball bats. 
The US isn't Canada, we have whole cultures of people that embrace the violent thug lifestyle, it's more than just the homicides that you're so obsessed with, it's physical assaults, rapes, robberies, ect.
You somehow think less gun related homicides = a safer environment, it doesn't.
Edited by qman (06/18/15 01:39 PM)
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CaptainKurt
Stranger


Registered: 04/30/15
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Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Astral Pain] 1
#21823669 - 06/18/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Astral Pain said: Suspect apprehended. Dylan Storm Roof.

They are stating he said "I am here to kill black people" Obama is going to make an announcement some time today. I'm sure he'll settle any racial tensions down like he he has always done in the past. Gun laws are again under scrutiny as well.
http://fox6now.com/2015/06/18/dylann-storm-roof-arrested-in-north-carolina-according-to-report/
You can tell this guy is a fruitcake by his haircut.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823683 - 06/18/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
qman said:
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Patlal said:
There are clearly more red states in the top 10 than blue states. After a quick glance. I can stretch that number to top 25
The gun violence takes place in the inner cities, why the hell are you focusing on red and blue states? 
http://www.takepart.com/photos/gun-homicides/gun-homicides-america-where-bullets-are-flying
It's Detroit, Philly, Cleveland, New Orleans, Baltimore, Oakland, Chicago, and other cities where the senseless gun violence takes place.
Are you starting to see a common theme here? There's civilized people that own guns and there's no problem, and there's uncivilized people that also own guns and then everything goes to shit.
Alright then. Let's move on to cities if you like.
How many of the top 100 dangerous cities (population higher than 50,000) in the US are conservative?
CIties can't really be conservative. It's a social core. Social and conservative don't go hand in hand. You need the social programs otherwise the city grinds to a halt.
Then again most mayor identify to a either republican or democrat. It's a good clue
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: koods]
#21823685 - 06/18/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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koods said: So, you're agreeing that guns lower life expectancy?
Well, that's the bulk of their purpose.
A lot of things lower life expectancy. Sitting here on the Shroomery all day raises your risk of a heart attack. Think about that as you watch the clock on the wall approach the coming hour.
But guns are so engrained in our culture you aren't going to get rid of gun violence. That's what we're talking about, not suicides or accidental deaths.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T] 1
#21823695 - 06/18/15 01:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I stand while wasting my life away on the Shroomery, thankyou very much.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823698 - 06/18/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Patlal said: CIties can't really be conservative. It's a social core. Social and conservative don't go hand in hand. You need the social programs otherwise the city grinds to a halt.
Then again most mayor identify to a either republican or democrat. It's a good clue
So you're dodging the question by spewing nonsense.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823706 - 06/18/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Patlal said: CIties can't really be conservative. It's a social core. Social and conservative don't go hand in hand. You need the social programs otherwise the city grinds to a halt.
Then again most mayor identify to a either republican or democrat. It's a good clue
So you're dodging the question by spewing nonsense.
I'm not dodging the question. I simply don't know the answer.
Most mayor identify to a party and therefore it is a good clue as to what they believe in, which in turn gives you a clue of what the a big part of the population believe in given the fact that many people will vote for their favorite party no matter who is at the head of it. It's not 100% exact. But like I said, it's a good clue
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Thayendanegea
quiet walker



Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 7,596
Loc: 7 Lodges Nation
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: plektheplek]
#21823721 - 06/18/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, This has nothing to do with gun laws.....unless you're talking about an outright ban....which is against our constitutional rights. There is always gonna be some crazy lunatic with some adgenda...like that white dude in(one of those Scandinavian countries?)Can't remember which...Norway? that killed all those school kids a couple years ago...like 80 some camp kids.That dude had a paramilitary style assault rifle and I think Norway has similar gun control laws to most of the US.They can be purchased if used for hunting and sporting reasons.He just kept shooting and shooting and no-one would stop him. Those people will always be in our society and that "rogue or lone wolf type" are impossible to plan against.
The assholes in Baltimore just pay someone else to buy their guns for them...then turn them on other drug dealers or snitches or whatever. Maryland has some pretty strict laws...but criminals still get guns.
What is really messed up is the thought process behind these lunatics that kill just to kill. As far as I know....I don't think there has been any black serial killers....or maybe just a couple...they tend to kill each other for reasons like I said...and not just senseless anonymous killings.
-------------------- Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better. Albert Einstein
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