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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823363 - 06/18/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Patlal said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
Just as I suspected. You don't know what you're talking about. You're excused for being Canadian at least.
Did you notice Washington, DC's rate? Delaware? These states bleed blue.
And why are such heavily conservative states, where everyone owns a gun, like Idaho and North Dakota with such low rates of gun violence?
DC is a city, not a state. Take any city from any state and put it in that graph and odds are it'll be on top of the list too. It's just logic at this point.
But I'll give it to you, Delaware is in fact a blue state. 1/15, not bad.
Also, reading stats isn't all that hard. I heard even a Mexican can do it.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: koods]
#21823365 - 06/18/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not only do some places like Idaho and North Dakota have high gun ownership and very low gun death rates, they are also among the healthiest states in the US. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/13/most-healthy-states_n_6320630.html
Your theory of firearms lowering life expectancy must not mean much.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823401 - 06/18/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I always check the "Talk" tab on wiki pages. Here's the one from that wiki gun violence chart. I don't know how much I would trust those numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal] 1
#21823413 - 06/18/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Patlal said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
Just as I suspected. You don't know what you're talking about. You're excused for being Canadian at least.
Did you notice Washington, DC's rate? Delaware? These states bleed blue.
And why are such heavily conservative states, where everyone owns a gun, like Idaho and North Dakota with such low rates of gun violence?
DC is a city, not a state. Take any city from any state and put it in that graph and odds are it'll be on top of the list too. It's just logic at this point.
But I'll give it to you, Delaware is in fact a blue state. 1/15, not bad.
Also, reading stats isn't all that hard. I heard even a Mexican can do it.
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Patlal said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
Just as I suspected. You don't know what you're talking about. You're excused for being Canadian at least.
Did you notice Washington, DC's rate? Delaware? These states bleed blue.
And why are such heavily conservative states, where everyone owns a gun, like Idaho and North Dakota with such low rates of gun violence?
DC is a city, not a state. Take any city from any state and put it in that graph and odds are it'll be on top of the list too. It's just logic at this point.
But I'll give it to you, Delaware is in fact a blue state. 1/15, not bad.
Also, reading stats isn't all that hard. I heard even a Mexican can do it.
California, Delaware, Maryland, Michigan and Pennsylvania are also considered blue states. I'd guess by the numbers they're in the top 15 too, or in that range. Meanwhile there's a handful of red states with low gun violence. Funny you didn't acknowledge that. Wyoming, West Virginia, Nebraska, North and South Dakota, Iowa, etc.
This is all based off the year 2010 from your link.
A better correlation is regional. Coastal areas with higher population densities tend to have higher crime rates. You might also notice states with more black people have a higher number. So that would include southern states.
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Syd Barrett
dead-head



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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American Churchill [Re: D.M.T]
#21823418 - 06/18/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was walking round the area an hour before it happened. The whole thing is so fucked up.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Astral Pain]
#21823419 - 06/18/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: I always check the "Talk" tab on wiki pages. Here's the one from that wiki gun violence chart. I don't know how much I would trust those numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
Yeah I know I'm just using his link since that's his source. Could find links from other sources or other years that tell a completely different story. Statistics are rarely static.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Astral Pain]
#21823426 - 06/18/15 12:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: I always check the "Talk" tab on wiki pages. Here's the one from that wiki gun violence chart. I don't know how much I would trust those numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
I will not let chatter manipulate the numbers. I do not care about their opinions of what should or shouldn't be and I'm sure not gonna a conservative blame a liberal for the numbers or vice versa.
Stats only. No distraction.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823432 - 06/18/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: koods]
#21823437 - 06/18/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Acaterpillar said:
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Patlal said: How about less gun death and less crime? Both go hand in hand. Don't you want that?
Maybe things are different up in Canada, but owning a gun does not make you more likely of committing a crime. 
Poverty and crime go hand in hand. Not guns. Do some reading on socioeconomics if you wanna form a convincing argument.
No, it just shortens your and everyone else's life expectancy. http://www.upenn.edu/ldi/issuebrief11_2.pdf
Code:
Cause of death. Days Lung cancer 197 Motor vehicle accidents 161 Breast cancer (Females) 145 Firearms 104 Colon cancer 67 Poisoning 66 Prostate cancer (Males) 47 Suffocation 39 Falls 25
Funny how those numbers still apply in places where gun control is enforced.
I can think of a few other hobbies of mine that probably act as a bigger factor to shorten my life expectancy. Shit, even being left handed does that.
But as an individual, I don't live by numbers and statistics. Those things are good for populations.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823440 - 06/18/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Astral Pain said: I always check the "Talk" tab on wiki pages. Here's the one from that wiki gun violence chart. I don't know how much I would trust those numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
I will not let chatter manipulate the numbers. I do not care about their opinions of what should or shouldn't be and I'm sure not gonna a conservative blame a liberal for the numbers or vice versa.
Stats only. No distraction.
They do more research as to the years specified and define what some of the % are really of. More than just opinion
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 8 hours, 3 minutes
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823443 - 06/18/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
There are clearly more red states in the top 10 than blue states. After a quick glance. I can stretch that number to top 25
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Posts: 10,991
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal] 1
#21823472 - 06/18/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
There are clearly more red states in the top 10 than blue states. After a quick glance. I can stretch that number to top 25
Big whoop if that's even true - I won't be spending my time examining the numbers, especially when most of them are all really close. If only 1 out of 3 states with high gun violence in the top 15 were blue that's a pretty high percentage, and too high to draw the conclusion you have. Especially when you take into account the region, demographics and poverty level, you'll notice higher gun violence states tend to be in the same area with high rates of poverty.
And black people, of course.
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Patlal]
#21823475 - 06/18/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: DC is a city, not a state. Take any city from any state and put it in that graph and odds are it'll be on top of the list too. It's just logic at this point.
Actually D.C. is a federal district. Washington is the city within D.C.
Quote:
Patlal said: But I'll give it to you, Delaware is in fact a blue state. 1/15, not bad.
Also, reading stats isn't all that hard. I heard even a Mexican can do it.
Clearly you can't even read the stats on that page; because your statements don't fall in line with the numbers on there.
Also saying "even a Mexican can do it" makes you out to be a pretentious twat. But I almost forgot that you consider the poor to be 'losers' 
No wonder you have such a poor understanding of socioeconomics.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Acaterpillar]
#21823494 - 06/18/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acaterpillar said:
Quote:
Patlal said: DC is a city, not a state. Take any city from any state and put it in that graph and odds are it'll be on top of the list too. It's just logic at this point.
Actually D.C. is a federal district. Washington is the city within D.C.
Quote:
Patlal said: But I'll give it to you, Delaware is in fact a blue state. 1/15, not bad.
Also, reading stats isn't all that hard. I heard even a Mexican can do it.
Clearly you can't even read the stats on that page; because your statements don't fall in line with the numbers on there.
Also saying "even a Mexican can do it" makes you out to be a pretentious twat. But I almost forgot that you consider the poor to be 'losers' 
No wonder you have such a poor understanding of socioeconomics.
DC Is a city. It is entirely urban.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: koods]
#21823507 - 06/18/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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My teacher lied to me!
I was under the impression that D.C. was the federal district and Washington was the city.
Oh well...
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Acaterpillar]
#21823523 - 06/18/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know why Patlal is even trying to look at it by state and claim victory to his argument that way when most gun violence is done in urban areas anyway. It's the urban areas that make the most violent states have such high numbers, and those urban areas pretty much all tend to be liberal cities that promote gun control.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: D.M.T]
#21823525 - 06/18/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
That chart had nothing to do with gun laws, so it's not surprising that you aren't finding a link. People need to learn how to read data.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: Acaterpillar]
#21823529 - 06/18/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acaterpillar said: My teacher lied to me!
I was under the impression that D.C. was the federal district and Washington was the city.
Oh well...
Well, that may or not be true. It's meaningless in this context.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: koods]
#21823535 - 06/18/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
D.M.T said: Either way whether it's accurate or not your own link shows red vs blue and gun laws have nothing to do with the rate of gun violence.
That chart had nothing to do with gun laws, so it's not surprising that you aren't finding a link. People need to learn how to read data.
It isn't surprising you missed the point. Read the unquoted part of Patlal's statement and try to keep up.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: ?Re: 9 dead in shooting at historic Charleston African American church [Re: DurgaDurg]
#21823546 - 06/18/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DurgaDurg said: It just doesn't make sense to ne for a church to separate people by race. The killer also wouldn't have had an easy target of a building full of black people. Maybe he would have thought twice if there was a risk of him killing his fellow white people.
According to the history of the church:
Quote:
Foundation
The church was founded in 1816 by African American former members of the Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston,[3] who left the church because of a dispute over burial grounds. The white churches, particularly the Methodist Episcopal Church, had increasingly discriminated against them in the prior years, and "capped the insult when they built a hearse house on the black burial ground."[4] In 1818 a church leader, Morris Brown, left a white church in protest, and more than four thousand Black members followed him to this new church.[5]
In 1822, Denmark Vesey, one of the church's founders, was implicated in an alleged slave revolt plot. Vesey and five other alleged organizers were executed on July 2[6] after a secret trial, and the original church was burned down by white supremacists.[7] The church was rebuilt, but in 1834 all-black churches were outlawed in Charleston, and the congregation met in secret until the end of the Civil War in 1865.[8][9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_African_Methodist_Episcopal_Church
Looks like it was founded due to black churchgoers experiencing discrimination. Probably carries a strong history that is important to people who feel they are still struggling.

Is it still a fully segregated establishment in the modern era, or do white people just choose not to attend a historically black establishment?
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