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OfflineKronk
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Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages.
    #21818066 - 06/17/15 07:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I plan on taking my first trip of Psilocybe Cubensis after my harvest. I plan on taking around 3.5-5 grams. The purpose of the trip will be purely, how do I put it, introspective. I want to take something positive away. It isn't for fun.

Now to get to the question.

Could experienced users please try to describe what it means to loose your sense of reality when at high doses? (5 grams or so.)

My interpretation leaves me hesitant. The way I read it I interpret it as being similar to blackout drunk, as in having no real control and ending up in places not knowing how you got their or why you decided to go there.

I won't even ask what ego death is like as I have a pretty good idea.

Side note, sorry if this type of post has been regurgitated by newbs the world over. I just can't seem to find an explination I can relate to.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Kronk]
    #21818077 - 06/17/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It may happen on any dose, it depends on you being ready for it

Check my journal if you want a really good chocolate recipe, best way of eating mushrooms IMO

Much better trip each time, and you can use less to trip, 3g is enough for strong trip


If I tell you what it's like there is less for you to explore
You shouldn't read trip reports, but just trip

You can look at the levels of trips as a guideline maybe, level 4 gets intense, level5 there is no word to explain and no consciousness often

just unconscious, but that doesn't mean it is unpleasant

level5 can be very worthwhile for some, and very unpleasant for others
I have gone to level5 a handful of times when I least expected it on LSD/shrooms , but normally trip around level3-4

it seems more than one thing can make you unconscious in trip, not only egodeath
mushrooms are pretty known for knocking people out like alcohol can do

can be fun, but I don't aim to get knocked out ;-) -  it just happens, and quite often actually sometimes


I would recommend 3g chocolates as a very good - explorer dose - not too newbie dose- not too hardcore tripper dose
most people will be able to do that if they have tried shrooms before

4g gets so intense you dont want to return very often - years inbetween likely - always unpleasant

5g can get very unpleasant and insane, but fun too , you dont want to return there every weekend unless you're a shaman ;-)


Trips should not be written about , that program other people's minds
trip reports thats some insane ego tripping really, just trip man

turn off those expectations, have fun

btw my favorite trip report is "rebirth and spiritual enlightenment on mcdonalds toilets"


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OfflineKronk
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818088 - 06/17/15 08:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Greatly appreciated advice. Thank you.
I will consider your dose recommendation.


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InvisibleSun King
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818182 - 06/17/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lessismore said:
4g gets so intense you dont want to return very often - years inbetween likely - always unpleasant

5g can get very unpleasant and insane, but fun too , you dont want to return there every weekend unless you're a shaman ;-)





I have pleasant 4 & 5 grams trips.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Sun King]
    #21818196 - 06/17/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We can really not use dosages for anything , only for guidance

Cubensis strength varies -a lot- from dealer to dealer, or from grow to grow

So my cubensis may be ultra weak, and yours may knock people's feet off with 2g, or the opposite

Sometimes 3g does nothing for me, sometimes 3g is much too much


It can surprise you with the strength, start low, get to know your dose

Potency can vary a lot each flush, and even between shrooms too


But with 3.5g you are usually assured a trip, not always though - if they have been improperly dried in an oven or such they might not work much at all, or not dried quickly enough

Shrooms degrade if you don't dry them right


So many factors, we can't use dosage for anything - people have different tolerance to psilocybin too

Some don't trip on 5g, some trip on 2.5g

If you take medications you might not feel much on 5g too, while others will never want to return to a 5g trip


The best tip is to always start low, and know -your- set,setting,dose
next batch you get may surprise you and be ultra strong

I prefer the lowest dose I can trip on usually, I rarely go as high as possible, as that impacts the mind more - more I need to defragment after trip ends. And 3g is plenty for me usually.

Just know your dose , even if that is a Mckenna 5g in silent darkness dose ;-)


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OfflineKronk
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818329 - 06/17/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In the case of improper drying would you recommend simply eating the mushrooms fresh? I have concerns that they may be a bit harder on the stomach fresh.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Kronk]
    #21818492 - 06/17/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fresh tastes very good, but yes they can give "gutrot" / bad trip due to thinking you ate poison or such

It's all in the mind, many can and do prefer fresh

Tastes 100x better than dried..


I would just eat the thing if I wanted to trip now...
But if you do fresh + orange juice, expect one hell of a ride- both of these are known to easily give bad trips/too intense trips


But some people like it intense...

I would eat them fresh, but avoid orange juice, that adds too much risk for bad trip I think

and expect a bad trip in any case, then nothing can go wrong - it is more likely for me when eating them fresh it seems

still like it ...


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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Kronk]
    #21818515 - 06/17/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Sitting in the dark on mushrooms and watching the show in my head was a wonderful past time for me. 

I prefer 5+ grams nowadays if I were to take mushrooms.  The sensations are out of this world and focusing your attention on breathing can elevate you as high as you wanna go, while also being an anchor in the event you start getting uncomfortable.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818552 - 06/17/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I felt like drowning on 4g chocolates, very unpleasant, thought I would die the whole trip

I couldn't breathe, really heavy breathing, whole trpi

couldn't move whole trip


wasn't exactly a picknick , it seems I don't really like the shroom bodyload, and I got asthma too so I keep safe with shrooms, I usually never get problems breathing
but there I did the whole trip


higher doses easier give bad trips usually, so 5-6g can be risky

I am not sure what 5-6g would be in equivalent LSD dose, but I have taken 10+ hits before and that was much easier to trip on than 4-5g mushrooms

Mushrooms you don't just trip out on, they trip out on you, they take control

There was noone to watch when I took 4.5g last time, I was insane for hours, no I watcher, reliving my life over and over again
It is intense as hell usually, 6g doesn't sound pleasant to me


But it all depends on the way you take them
Powder is more intense, I usually need 4.5g when I eat them raw it seems - not a lot happens there

If I eat 4.5g as chocolates, the world melts, I just go insane basically - no control, insanity for 8 hours


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818572 - 06/17/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Are you sure those 5-6g are strong shrooms?

When I got shrooms grown on straw they were weak ass, very little trip even on 4-4.5g

When I got on pftek I tripped my mind out on 3-3.5g , intense as hell, too intense


I can't imagine tripping 5-6g each time without tolerance, it would take my mind years to become normal again after each trip
That's why I usually don't go to level5 over and over on LSD either, it takes long time to get back - the heavier the trip, the longer time, it can have weeks afterglow or months


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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Kronk]
    #21818598 - 06/17/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If you really want the truth you should do it yourself.


you cant explain whats yours but what is yours you will know
now just forget the rest wflojdgsokjgsoprgtreig[skvk;;d54it6-p05kbkbkbkb


error error

system malfunction


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818607 - 06/17/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Fresh mushrooms have both psilocin AND psilocybin. Dried mushrooms contain ONLY psilocybin. Different trips.

IMO fresh is far superior.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818626 - 06/17/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I bet if you take a high enough dose the universe splits into 2 or 3 :-)

Just like on Salvia...

Then you have a conversation with the 2nd and 3rd universe (yourself)

That is spooky as hell, when you start hearing voices speaking out of the blue - but noone there
Then you have long conversations with those that are not there

That's normal on salvia, and I bet on shrooms too - at high enough doses

Multiple splitting of the ego

So you see yourself/people you know in your furniture, speak to your furniture, can be fun


The insane part is just that this happens on 5x Salvia for me
that only happened on like 400-450ug LSD...  - you telepatically communicate with everyone you know like they are there

Imagine what 20x Salvia is like.... out of this world


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21818636 - 06/17/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When your furniture kicks your ass for wiping greasy fingers on the sofa arm - it is all about karma.


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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #21819051 - 06/17/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Fresh mushrooms have both psilocin AND psilocybin. Dried mushrooms contain ONLY psilocybin. Different trips.

IMO fresh is far superior.



Psilocybin converts into psilocin in the body.

Fresh is better but only because they are more potent.


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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: hTx]
    #21819055 - 06/17/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I once did a 100mg rail of pure 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) and was speaking to aliens on my wall for three hours.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: hTx]
    #21819118 - 06/17/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hTx said:
I once did a 100mg rail of pure 4-ho-dmt (psilocin) and was speaking to aliens on my wall for three hours.




2d hallucinations like that are very common on high doses of LSD/mushrooms

and sometimes they can actually turn 3d on really high doses - or if your brain gets lucky

then you think they're 100% real

but usually when you see entities they seem 100% real, even if they are 2d and in midair
the mind has lost most/all ability to discern real/nonreal, even if it is surreal

I think I've had a ufo trip 3-4 times now, but only the 2 of them I recall fully, also had a ufo lucid dream after it - damn that one I remember intensely

lucid dreams >> heroic dose of LSD or salvia, feels more real than this reality


if you got poor eyesight here, you got 360 degree view and xray vision in lucid dreams, you can even fly through walls if you want - no need to put on your glasses ;-)
everything is crystal clear and you can fly anywhere

it's amazing that trips you've had since 4 years old can still blow the mind 25 years later, the same trips... flying in lucid dreams

I have had flying trips on LSD too/mushrooms , it feels like flying in the air when you lay down, lightweight
no reality, just immensed in closed eye visuals, no contact with outer world, inner world loops for whole trip (on around 4g)

out of body experiences are pretty common, near death experiences, death experiences, I've probably had a few of each - the obes are pretty short lasting though it seems

not like real OBEs, you would remember those for the rest of your life, I had one of those like 20 years ago that I remember like a min ago

wouldn't mind trying a real OBE again, it's better than lucid dreaming which is better than any trip too usually


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21819179 - 06/17/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A lucid dream you get 100% crystal clear reality that feels more real than this one, and no rules

A OBE you get even more clarity and control, because you don't have to face your fear first


A trip is not as clear, it is a distorted perception that bubbles from side to side and gives weird thoughts usually

In a lucid dream everything is clear, you think clearly, you can go to work as normal, and then jump out the building and fly

Or you can meet a ufo in your backyard like me, damn - I could feel it out there and all :wink:
That was crazy.... kept running around in circles in my living room and couldnt think straight, thought if I should run out the front door but didn't for some reason

I have met everyone I know in a lucid dream, thought I was awake, but then I could fly... reality was not real, I could just jump into the air and it was like steps

then I could crawl into the air and sit there, or fly anywhere

lucid dreaming is the shit
www.ld4all.nl
www.dreamviews.com , and it's free, anyone can learn it

I think I have experienced just about anything in lucid dreams, many kind of entities, and many people, but usually the same kind of entities - not always pleasant ones

it seems they don't like you gaining control of that reality, whether it is your subconscious or guards of that reality, who knows
they will prevent you from being able to be fearless and fly, they know your weaknesses and exploit them


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21819272 - 06/17/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

But trips can still be fun, it seems they too release DMT/something in the brain somehow..

that's why they often can be spiritual

and the same dangers of lucid dreaming applies with trips, you can get a bad trip that can hurt you for life if you don't respect it

and if you respect it, you can heal your soul with lucid dreaming/trips

a good trip gives energy
a good lucid dream gives energy


It just seems it is harder to reach a calm state in a trip than in a lucid dream
they both can affect one for the rest of ones life

I've often been thinking about how to do some spiritual protection when tripping/lucid dreaming, it looks like it can be dangerous...

it seems the risk is the exact same, you can meet entities, and they are usually rarely pleasant

I have met entities both in LDs and trips several times , and they can definitely drain you if you are not careful , there is a certain way to live when doing such occult things usually

if just doing it carelessly there may be severe dangers to it, but if you respect it there may not be - and it can heal your soul, give your energy, optimism

A good lucid dream feels like you slept for a year, energy for a month
A good trip feels like this too almost..

Both can make you remember your divine self if respected
Mushrooms are really great for closed eye visuals, it's like a 4dimensional cinema , I would prefer them instead of LSD for closed eye movies

didn't think it was possible with so many colors closed eyes before I did 4g mushrooms first time... they can give so many colors its almost too much ;-P


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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21820446 - 06/17/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I used to lucid dream quite often as a child. I once popped out of my body and was dragged around by some shadow entity until i got a hold of myself and wanted it to stop.
Burst of golden light and the entity jetted leaving me floating in my living room.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: hTx]
    #21821932 - 06/18/15 01:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I used to lucid dream from when I was 4 or so, there it was always black ravens chasing me

but then in 96 I had my first sleep paralysis, entity outside my window, came into my room sat on me, could feel it wanted to kill me
could see it in full creature and all - demonic

it sat in my chest and I could look it into its eyes but not scream or move, could only move my eyes

I thought I was awake and my mom was next room and all...

couldn't breathe, felt like dying I think

don't remember more, that was scary as hell, first seeing it outside the window then it coming into the room and sitting on you

and I was living on 3rd floor lol

I still remember it like 2mins ago, and it's 19 years ago

what's interesting is that I had forgot all about it, until I took psychedelics, then I remembered it, and the next interesting thing is I had changed 180degrees as a person after that experience in 96, new person but not for the better


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Kronk]
    #21839833 - 06/21/15 11:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kronk said:
Greatly appreciated advice. Thank you.
I will consider your dose recommendation.




Good advice on dosage from lessismore, but it depends on how you take the mushrooms. I've always preferred dried fruit over fresh, powdered, and 3.5 gms is our regular dosage, sometimes 4.0 gms. BUT when we combined 3 dosages for a total of 10.5 gms  to be divided 3 ways using lemon juice, a bit of grain alcohol and hot tea - the experience is NOT something I readily want to repeat and I've been tripping for 44 years! Ordinarily, I powder the 3.5 gms in an electric coffee grinder and immediately add cinnamon apple sauce. Do not leave ground mushroom powder exposed to air for very long or its potency will be lost through oxidation. The cinnamon helps settle the stomach, the fruit pectin helps break down the cell walls, and the vitamin C may serve as an antioxidant and acidify the content to aid in the extraction along with stomach acid. Then mix, spoon the goo down after a brief prayer, and wash it down with water. It helps to take a brief walk around the block, but we don't much do that anymore. We're always running around the house at night lighting colored votives and candles and turning off electric lights instead.

Ego-death can arrive as a convincing delusion that one has been poisoned and might be dying. On high doses, one stops identifying with oneself as a primarily biological creature with social roles, and experience oneself as awareness, light, vibration, a dissociated 'Witness,' or as a stream of evolutionary change. I highly recommend Stan Grof's book Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations From LSD Research which has been retitled and reissued as LSD: Doorway to the Numinous: The Groundbreaking Psychedelic Research into realms of the Human Unconscious.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21844740 - 06/23/15 05:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Yup, that's pretty accurate description of egodeath

I would say with egodeath you start to remember , your full being, what you have forgotten

It can also leave you quite naked in front of reality, as you got almost no self identity left after it for a while

All you believed in was wrong, that's a good egodeath


We often convince ourselves that our society is right, science is right
science rules the universe, we are our brains and atoms


But egodeath will make you question anything

There is also the possibility of getting out of it with inflated ego, it is a side effect listed on Erowid too. When LSD mangles the ego it often gets too high or too low, but if you have learned you will usually be able to transcend it to some extent.

The ego is permanent, there is no such thing as a permanent egodeath, we all got an ego, that's how we navigate the world

You cannot navigate the world without an 'I', self identity

After an egodeath you basically reinstall your operating system, it is usually not pleasant, but it is also pleasant at the same time


The ego helps keep us comfortable, that's why egodeath is unpleasant, the ego doesn't want to die
We feel comfortable when we can rely on ourselves, think we know, when we think we know more/are better than others etc.

But with egodeath all those illusions are stripped from us, and if we are too deep into the illusion it may not be pleasant

Probably why they say they "don't unplug people when they're old" in the matrix :wink:
The mind hangs onto its thoughts, a mind that is old may not be ready to be unplugged because it has been accustomized to its thoughts and ego

Egodeath to a well developed ego will feel like the worst thing in the universe, literal death
The person will feel he is going insane or such...

When we learn to soften our ego we learn to accept death and go with the flow, and even transcend that ego part of ourselves
I am not just my thoughts I learned


Then we may remember our real self

But yes, the usual feeling is 'I am dying', I ate poison, who am I, I feel crazy etc., should I dial 911? etc..
The ego hates getting dissolved like psychedelics temporarily can do

Now I wouldn't urge anyone to take 5g ever, it's personal choice, it can have good and bad impacts on people. Egodeath i.e. is not only pleasant, even though the ego rebuilds itself with months/years.

Formatting the brain is not only pleasant, you will have to reinstall everything you know, how you see yourself and your friends, what you want to do etc.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: lessismore]
    #21844856 - 06/23/15 06:14 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So the real interesting thing is not about the trip for me, but what comes after

Shrooms/LSD can have a positive impact afterwards, and egodeath can too

It depends on your choices in life...

If you have lied to yourself your whole life, egodeath will be very unpleasant, you may not even get out of it intact

If you have always chosen with the heart in all matters then it will be nothing and even help you further on your path


Shrooms/LSD help me make good choices afterwards that's what I like about them, unlike weed

If I got more energy after the trip I know I tripped right


(pardon my pain pills induced stupidity if this is all getting unclear...)


Know your set,setting,dose , know what you want from the trip (intention)

at some point you usually find another intention than just to trip for visuals, or most people seem to do, because mushrooms can do much more (so this thread doesn't make so much sense)


If you instead trip to "know" stuff, then you hang onto your thoughts, you may even get crazy, or the mushroom will teach you quickly. I would say it is a shame that people are taught to trip just for the visuals or just to "understand"

Understanding comes after the trip, never in it I believe

You see an alternative reality frame there, it is usually never real - because you don't control your thoughts well there, there are much better ways to 'understand' than doing a trip

What you understand in the trip usually doesn't make sense, but what you understand after it may...

The things we understand in trips are the ego's delusions , that we believe fully in, so we are basically delusional, it's almost impossible for most people to avoid delusions in a trip, especially high doses

I'd rather go with no intention for the trip, or a good intention. A bad intention is to trip to gain something IMO (or want something when tripping), it usually only damages.



A buddhist monk takes shrooms/LSD at high dose, almost nothing happens
A new tripper takes 2g shrooms and sees death

you see your fear, all your wantings, your subconscious - but if you clean the mind there is not much to see , because there is no fear

our subconscious projects our fear into our reality, both in this one, in trips and in lucid dreams it seems (that's what the ego does)


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Explain losing sense of reality at high dosages. [Re: Kronk]
    #21846481 - 06/23/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kronk said:
My interpretation leaves me hesitant. The way I read it I interpret it as being similar to blackout drunk, as in having no real control and ending up in places not knowing how you got their or why you decided to go there.



Yes, very large doses mean losing control and having blackouts, or just losing control and hallucinating hard for what seems like an eternity. That is just a waste of time in my opinion, unless you are into the science of calibrating the entire spectrum of tryptamine dosages.
Quote:

I won't even ask what ego death is like as I have a pretty good idea.



Cool. Remember that set and setting are as important as dosage.


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* Wow, could this explain some things about tripping? KingOftheThing 1,005 12 12/16/03 02:16 PM
by Malachi

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