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The Medic
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Using sponges as substrate?
#21817384 - 06/17/15 12:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, I was hoping it didn't come to this, but after realizing that grains need a pressure cooker, I had to do some last minute research about other viable methods that some people have done with success.
Vermiculite is not an option for me, due to several reasons which I won't delve into. And I don't have the tools to properly sterilize grain due to those deep endospores, as the cheapest pressure cooker I can get which has the proper PSI is 70$ and seems to have a fair amount of malfunctions reflected in reviews.
I loaded up my half-pint jars full with wet sponges covered in brown rice flour. I removed the sponges from the sealed bag (non-soap variety, and what I believe to be plain), gave them a 5 minute rinse, and let them drain before cutting them up into very small pieces. At this point they were moist, but had dried out somewhat as cutting them up took a good 30 minutes to get them small enough. I then poured freshly brewed coffee through them after putting them in the strainer again. By doing this I hopefully got a decent mix of coffee and water. After this I poured 1 and a half 1/3rd cup of BRF onto them and mixed the sponges well.
Sterilization was 90 minutes on the stove in a pot of boiling water with about one inch of water. I'm hoping that the sponges were sterile or at least had no endospores; thinking back I should have boiled the sponges in water first before doing anything.
Has anybody tried this themselves?
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nobody83
stranger danger


Registered: 03/15/14
Posts: 1,486
Loc: around town
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21817413 - 06/17/15 12:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
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Last seen: 11 months, 23 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21817431 - 06/17/15 01:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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All I can really say is good luck- but you can't even order verm? And a $70 PC is a steal- just buy it! It will pay off- fa sho!
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The Medic
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Quote:
TravelAgency said: All I can really say is good luck- but you can't even order verm? And a $70 PC is a steal- just buy it! It will pay off- fa sho!
The pressure cooker at 70$ has been reported to not properly work in several customer reviews. I don't want to spend 70$ and get rek'd on that. I don't exactly have a ton of money to throw around right now.
As for vermiculite, A: no place near me sells it, B: (and this is a bigger problem for me than A) reading about vermiculite, even in this day and age, has been found to be contaminated with asbestos since they naturally occur near each other. Not worth the risk.
If this sponge tek works, though, I'll probably just stick to it. Sponges aren't the cheapest, but I could probably reuse them in any case.
I'll be updating this thread with details as them come in. Plan to get them started tomorrow morning.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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The closest I've ever seen to anything like this was Haloniums Pom Tek written up by Violet.
Edit: Its not a method I'm endorsing.
Edited by wildernessjunkie (06/17/15 01:28 AM)
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Achillita
Back to the basics



Registered: 05/26/14
Posts: 4,565
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21817466 - 06/17/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Might not work but hey, I'm all for experimentation.
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BLINKfan420
Jedi



Registered: 07/06/12
Posts: 1,078
Last seen: 5 months, 1 day
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: Achillita]
#21817507 - 06/17/15 01:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm curious as to how you're going to reuse these sponges.. you don't think the myc will eat them up if this does work? These are REAL sponges right? Not some synthetic stuff? (BTW I've never heard of anything like this so idk.)
And no Walmart around for verm? If you live in the boonies, sticks, whatever, no one has any use for verm when it comes to gardening, etc.? Just wondering.
I hope this gets interesting.
Good luck!
BLiNK
--------------------
  All my pictures are drawn from imagination. I don't even know what a mushroom is.
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The Medic
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: BLINKfan420]
#21817512 - 06/17/15 01:41 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BLINKfan420 said: I'm curious as to how you're going to reuse these sponges.. you don't think the myc will eat them up if this does work? These are REAL sponges right? Not some synthetic stuff? (BTW I've never heard of anything like this so idk.)
And no Walmart around for verm? If you live in the boonies, sticks, whatever, no one has any use for verm when it comes to gardening, etc.? Just wondering.
I hope this gets interesting.
Good luck!
BLiNK
No, these are just basic sponges you'd find at Walmart. I chose non-soap/non-antifungal sponges for obvious reasons. I was unable to find real sponges, and regardless, I imagine they'd contain a whole host of nasty stuff. I plan on simply rinsing the sponge cubes off once the cake is done. A bunch of hot water should do the trick nicely.
And as I mentioned above, I could order vermiculite off the internet if I wanted, but the fact is a lot of vermiculite is slightly contaminated with asbestos, isn't reusable, etc.
I'm more of an experimenter, and despite this being my first time, I'd rather walk off the beaten path and play around with new ideas.
Thanks, I certainly need good luck.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21817528 - 06/17/15 01:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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mycelium can and will fruit on rockwool cubes and florists sponge if taken care of and you find a way to keep hydrated( with a nutrient solution if you want several flushes)!
good luck 
doc charlie used to use florists sponge and i have used 3inch rockwool blocks injected with liquid culture and fed with a nutrient solution and fruited the blocks in a SGFC like you would pf cakes.
its all in the realms of possibility! keep experimenting
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/17/15 02:10 AM)
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21819131 - 06/17/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: mycelium can and will fruit on rockwool cubes and florists sponge if taken care of and you find a way to keep hydrated( with a nutrient solution if you want several flushes)!
good luck 
doc charlie used to use florists sponge and i have used 3inch rockwool blocks injected with liquid culture and fed with a nutrient solution and fruited the blocks in a SGFC like you would pf cakes.
its all in the realms of possibility! keep experimenting 
I want proof of this.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21819283 - 06/17/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lol colonize rockwool with lc, float rockwool in nutrient solution = BAM! HYDROPONIC SHROOMS.
Lmao proof please.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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jbaby007
Badass



Registered: 02/28/15
Posts: 1,026
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21819332 - 06/17/15 02:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think we're all gonna sit back and watch this
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: jbaby007]
#21819442 - 06/17/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The verm I use says abestos free on the bag. Sponges might contain toxic dyes that the myc might eat.
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CliftonGK1
Sasquatch



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 327
Loc: A place
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21819485 - 06/17/15 03:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can get a Presto 23qt PC from Walmart for $80 with free shipping. I got mine on Amazon for around the same price.
As for asbestos and vermiculite, wear a respirator mask when working with it if you're really worried, but the levels found in gardening supplies shouldn't be a concern for the exposure you'll get at a personal hobby level.
Stick with the proven techniques and equipment, and you'll get good results. Go for something completely off-base, and who knows what will happen.
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The Medic
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: invitro]
#21819528 - 06/17/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: The verm I use says abestos free on the bag. Sponges might contain toxic dyes that the myc might eat.
The way that the vermiculite is tested is inaccurate. As long as less than 1% of the bag is asbestos, it can be labeled as "asbestos free" even if there's still a significantly harmful amount of asbestos.
As far as the dyes, I hadn't considered that, but even still, Red40 and other artificial colourations which are purposely put in food can't be too much worse than the dyes put in the sponges. However, that is a good point you brought up which I will delve deeper into, assuming I get growth. I'd assume that the mycelium would mostly "eat" the brown rice flour and leave the sponges alone, using them only for the moisture they contain. However, I do believe the sponges are made of cellulose, so who knows. Good thing to look at for the future.
At least I'm not eating asbestos like everybody using vermiculite though
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: CliftonGK1]
#21819532 - 06/17/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know people use to make pf cakes with flour and verm and steam sterilize them, I imagine you could replace verm with coir and steam sterilize those, not to fruit them as cakes but to crumble them into a mono or tray. Has anyone tried this?
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
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Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: invitro]
#21819540 - 06/17/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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AFAIK asbestos is only harmful in the lungs.
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The Medic
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/15
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: CliftonGK1]
#21819545 - 06/17/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
CliftonGK1 said: Go for something completely off-base, and who knows what will happen.
That's why I'm doing exactly that. It could have no results, meh results, or could work fairly well and be an interesting experiment for people who don't have pressure cookers/vermiculite.
In any case, I probably will wind up buying a pressure cooker. However, just today some guy in ISIS was caught because he bought a pressure cooker...makes me wonder exactly how much digging is done on people who buy such things.
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The Medic
Stranger


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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: invitro]
#21819558 - 06/17/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not sure coir would hold enough water is the only problem with that, but it's certainly worth a test try. At the moment I have no coir, else I would.
Tonight I'm planning on doing 3 jars with cotton balls finely shredded and coated with BRF, or might do one of those 3 with cardboard instead of cotton balls. I also am wondering how "lava" rock would do, seeing how it's an incredibly porous rock that could potentially substitute vermiculite.
Again, half of my interest in this is doing something new/not commonly done for the sake of it.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21819578 - 06/17/15 04:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Coir holds more water than verm, almost twice as much.
"cinder" is more descriptive than lava rock, lava rock can refer to the light fluffy, porous rock mined from cinder cones(cinder), and it can also refer to hard, heavy, dense, non-porous rock. There are shades of grey in between these two that have both features, it depends on how fast the lava flows which dictates how many air bubbles are mixed in the the lava.
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The Medic
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 29
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: invitro]
#21819690 - 06/17/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Really? I had no idea about coir holding so much water...I have no idea where I can obtain it, however.
My bad, I suppose cinder would be a more descriptive term for it.
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21819719 - 06/17/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Medic said: Well, I was hoping it didn't come to this, but after realizing that grains need a pressure cooker, I had to do some last minute research about other viable methods that some people have done with success.
Vermiculite is not an option for me, due to several reasons which I won't delve into. And I don't have the tools to properly sterilize grain due to those deep endospores, as the cheapest pressure cooker I can get which has the proper PSI is 70$ and seems to have a fair amount of malfunctions reflected in reviews.
I loaded up my half-pint jars full with wet sponges covered in brown rice flour. I removed the sponges from the sealed bag (non-soap variety, and what I believe to be plain), gave them a 5 minute rinse, and let them drain before cutting them up into very small pieces. At this point they were moist, but had dried out somewhat as cutting them up took a good 30 minutes to get them small enough. I then poured freshly brewed coffee through them after putting them in the strainer again. By doing this I hopefully got a decent mix of coffee and water. After this I poured 1 and a half 1/3rd cup of BRF onto them and mixed the sponges well.
Sterilization was 90 minutes on the stove in a pot of boiling water with about one inch of water. I'm hoping that the sponges were sterile or at least had no endospores; thinking back I should have boiled the sponges in water first before doing anything.
Has anybody tried this themselves?
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21819763 - 06/17/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Medic said: Really? I had no idea about coir holding so much water...I have no idea where I can obtain it, however.
My bad, I suppose cinder would be a more descriptive term for it.
Coir: Pet stores(lizard bedding), hydro stores, gardening supply centers, farm fertilizer supply stores, ebay, amazon.
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: invitro]
#21819794 - 06/17/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said:
Quote:
The Medic said: Really? I had no idea about coir holding so much water...I have no idea where I can obtain it, however.
My bad, I suppose cinder would be a more descriptive term for it.
Coir: Pet stores(lizard bedding), hydro stores, gardening supply centers, farm fertilizer supply stores, ebay, amazon.
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21821887 - 06/18/15 01:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said:
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: mycelium can and will fruit on rockwool cubes and florists sponge if taken care of and you find a way to keep hydrated( with a nutrient solution if you want several flushes)!
good luck 
doc charlie used to use florists sponge and i have used 3inch rockwool blocks injected with liquid culture and fed with a nutrient solution and fruited the blocks in a SGFC like you would pf cakes.
its all in the realms of possibility! keep experimenting 
I want proof of this.
you want proof that cube mycelium will colonise and inert substrate and fruit?
why would you need proof its self explanitory. after all RR has colonised lots of things with lc and fruited off of them lol a bible springs to mind as does dollar bill!
c'mon it aint that hard to do or imagine, you talk like its impossible.
im still inventing and havent a tek written up for obvious reasons. if your really interested have a look here for a glimpse- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21373595/page/5/fpart/1/vc/1
oneday i will have it down and will make a full tek but untill then im not going to release pics, especially of fruits from LC as this has been done and proved possible lots of times and serves no purpose and will only put my permeable membrane idea at risk prematurly lol
when i have broken new ground i will show it
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21821966 - 06/18/15 01:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bibles and money contain lignin. His experiments weren't just guesses.
Pics or it didn't happen. If you grew Cubensis on an inert substance like rockwool fed with LC, RR owes you a microscope.
That thread had no pics for proof.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#21822046 - 06/18/15 02:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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no he dont! until i have made a proper glycogen and mineral nutrient solution at best i have made a continual rehydration device that can deliver nutrients in a correct and efficient way that allows a 'midground' for enzyme activity to break down polymers into monomers and flow of h20 and these minerals are limited/controlled by osmotic pressure created by the mycelium and moved around the network by active transport by the mycelium itself.
only thing this does is take away the need for dunking as the sub stays at the perfect water content forever. its a novelty at best and am only doing it for fun to prove it can be! i just want to prove it possible not reinvent the wheel lol maybe after me someone will develope the idea to the point it becomes efficient and usable in the hobby.
imagine how much quicker and simpler it is just to use LC to colonise a preformed rockwool cube and the set these in a SGFC to fruit. cheaper and simplified way to grow for the hobbyist
the nutrient get used up but im not sure they still do use it once fruiting has been iniciated. so more tests needed. it may not be possible to extend fruiting indefinitely to point of senescence as the mycelium may switch functions from digesting to fruiting functions and not do both at the same time- rendering the nutrients useless after a certain point and possibly causing a stress and delay in fruiting as there is always more nutrients to digest so some substrains just want to keep eating as its thinking there is still more sub to colonise.
until the solution is sorted its not hydroponics so rr wins. 
i am still to implement trials of rockwool slabs in monotubs lol i have a busy life with lots of kids and lots of time consuming hobbies so progress is slow lol
pyrotechnics is my thing at the moment lol
so if you want proof by way of pics your just going to have to wait as if i show pics the membrane can easily be reverse engineered and i dont want it stolen before patent. patent is the only reward and recognition i am likely to receive so i keeping my cards held close for now lol
if you want you can fact check the science behind it and you will see it stands up quite well. use a bit of imagination and you should easily get the idea.
doc charlie and blackout have done basically the same thing http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4572225
maybe you could ask blackout how he got on ? im sure he will be willing to answer your Qs.
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/18/15 02:22 AM)
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Purplecapz
The Wandering Psilosopher



Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 60
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: BLINKfan420]
#21822064 - 06/18/15 02:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BLINKfan420 said: I'm curious as to how you're going to reuse these sponges.. you don't think the myc will eat them up if this does work? These are REAL sponges right? Not some synthetic stuff? (BTW I've never heard of anything like this so idk.)
And no Walmart around for verm? If you live in the boonies, sticks, whatever, no one has any use for verm when it comes to gardening, etc.? Just wondering.
I hope this gets interesting.
Good luck!
BLiNK
Wait, you've got something here.
"Why Are Natural Sea Sponges Better Than Synthetic Sponges?
When synthetic sponges are made, they are injected with triclosan, which is classified as a pesticide that fights bacteria. In addition, cotton products are processed with chlorine and other chemicals to ensure they are clean. Unfortunately, these chemicals have been linked to a variety of problems, from skin rashes to cancer. Not to mention all the waste and the toxins that are emitted back into the environment during the processing of synthetic sponges and as they break down from use. "
As far as I know, mycelium absorbs things, not sure if that means they will be toxic or not but apparently it's something to be suspicious about in my opinion. However it would also be interesting to see what would happen with sea sponges. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. This is still going to be interesting. Paul Stamets grows mushrooms on oil spills
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shellzenone
Zen



Registered: 12/11/14
Posts: 688
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21822072 - 06/18/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I remember reading a tek that claimed a pressure cooker was not needed. It described letting the grain ferment and build bacteria to a point that you could inoculate in open air. I'll see if I can find it...
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: shellzenone]
#21822083 - 06/18/15 02:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post a picture of this frankencake.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: Purplecapz]
#21822095 - 06/18/15 02:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Purplecapz said:
Quote:
BLINKfan420 said: I'm curious as to how you're going to reuse these sponges.. you don't think the myc will eat them up if this does work? These are REAL sponges right? Not some synthetic stuff? (BTW I've never heard of anything like this so idk.)
And no Walmart around for verm? If you live in the boonies, sticks, whatever, no one has any use for verm when it comes to gardening, etc.? Just wondering.
I hope this gets interesting.
Good luck!
BLiNK
Wait, you've got something here.
"Why Are Natural Sea Sponges Better Than Synthetic Sponges?
When synthetic sponges are made, they are injected with triclosan, which is classified as a pesticide that fights bacteria. In addition, cotton products are processed with chlorine and other chemicals to ensure they are clean. Unfortunately, these chemicals have been linked to a variety of problems, from skin rashes to cancer. Not to mention all the waste and the toxins that are emitted back into the environment during the processing of synthetic sponges and as they break down from use. "
As far as I know, mycelium absorbs things, not sure if that means they will be toxic or not but apparently it's something to be suspicious about in my opinion. However it would also be interesting to see what would happen with sea sponges. Anyway, just wanted to throw that out there. This is still going to be interesting. Paul Stamets grows mushrooms on oil spills 
paul stamets also invented colonising straw bales with oysters and build a wall in a river with the bales so the bales stick out the water and fruit. the mycelium filters pollutants out of the river like a filter!
this is similar to doc charlies experiments with a floral sponge wedged in a jar of LC so the myc can climb on and fruit.
these things have been shown time and again to work. so hydro shrooms certainly are a plausible option. the sticking point is the nutrients need to be mineral based for the classification of hydroponics- and our fungi prob would also have to be classed as plant for it to be hydroponics and as they are not... scientifcally the classification is impossible without re-adjusting present definitions to allow fungi into this group.
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/18/15 02:34 AM)
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21822101 - 06/18/15 02:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think cubes need more than just water soluble nutrients to fruit.
Do you disagree?
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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for mycelium to live it needs its energy source- sugar(glycogen) and the other minerals. to fruit it just needs enough of this to do it!( myc will fruit/pin on agar with only malt extract so why is it so hard for you to concieve the idea that they can with the nutrients in brewing wort! its the same thing just alot more nutrient rich!!!!)
malt extract im sorry to tell you is dehydrated brewing wort! my way is just a better version of POM TEK by anne that is proved to fruit! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20643482/fpart/1/vc/1
and fruits shown there too.
and it has a proven history right back to albert hoffmann himself who started the journey!
fruits can be grown with just LC or nutrient enriched semi solid agar!
plenty people have proved this. one such experiment you could try for yourself is- fill a jar with LC , wedge a circle piece of floral foam in the top opening just touching the LC.
First a floater(floating myc) will be made but it will then hop onto the foam and when it is colonised and is getting FAE you get FRUITS.
its a crude method but simple to try and it works so it proves my point. now you may only get minimal fruits but that is another point entirely!
the problem is working out an efficient way to do it! my system relys on the mycelium itself to control the amounts of solution it draws( osmotic pressure that myc uses in nature to absorb water)_ and to distribute it itself.
so yes i u disagree and so does the science.
and please remember i said its only a novelty! just to prove the science behind it. sorry im just a geek with aspergers who has 1 to many hobbys lol
just curious... what makes you believe they cant fruit on water based nutrients? if its about chitin... they dont need it in the sub in any large amount. the cells are made of chitin yes... but look at the levels of chitin and lignin in BRF and then look at the amount of fruits this produces. this amount of fruits contains way more chitin and lignin than the sub ever had to begin with! so its a moot point.
adding lignin and chitin as an additive is not needed, it may be helpful to have a ready supply of these but it is not needed! sorry thats science again!
Edited by mustangbob3 (06/18/15 04:09 AM)
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The Medic
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Registered: 06/08/15
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I'm not really sure if I'm comfortable to "do" pictures. In any case there's nothing to see right now anyway, just a bunch of finely cut up sponges covered in BRF. I remember I found a thread on here about a guy that did exactly what I'm doing, and he had pictures - that's where I got the idea from.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21822243 - 06/18/15 03:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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blackout has done basically the same thing! he talks about it in this thread- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4572225
and here- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21020411#21020411
seems agar has tried something along these lines too, well a casing layer of sponges cut up lol http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4433983#4433983
cant wait to see your results
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Edited by mustangbob3 (06/18/15 04:12 AM)
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21822248 - 06/18/15 03:56 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If just for novelties sake, sure you can get cubes to fruit off a lot of things... obviously including petris and LCs. I've seen it myself more times than I can remember.
Possible to grow shrooms the way you're proposing on a large scale? I don't know.. I don't think so.
Cool thread anyways, I enjoyed reading it.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Quote:
TheEaglesGift said: If just for novelties sake, sure you can get cubes to fruit off a lot of things... obviously including petris and LCs. I've seen it myself more times than I can remember.
Possible to grow shrooms the way you're proposing on a large scale? I don't know.. I don't think so.
Cool thread anyways, I enjoyed reading it.
thats why its a novelty 
it proves its possible and with what i have done they yeild as well as average pf cakes! keeping the sub fully hydrated all the time is only going to be of benefit. lots of things to work out still- but thats the fun of it!
as its possible i think at some point someone will perfect the process and it may be a game changer for mushroom growers the world over edible or actives.
the best thing is the simplicity of it and cheapness. and no skill required! a simple as sealing the block in a bag- injecting large amount of nutrient rich LC. after colonised the membrane is inserted in the hole conveniently cut into the top of the rockwool cube . the mycelium is allowed to grow into this membrane area and then nutrients turned 'on' and fruited. constant evapouration from the block creates osmotic pressure in the mycelium which then draws water through the membrane and distributes it evenly in the network. the mycelium releases enzymes into the membrane to brake down polymer minerals into monomers that can be taken up!
the process is there it just needs lots of work on little areas to improve efficiency.

oneday i will give it ago with a slab of rockwool cut to fit a monotub and see if the mycelium copes with transporting everything around a large sub. i imagine it will cope fine!
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The Medic
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: mustangbob3]
#21822794 - 06/18/15 08:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks mate, I appreciate the links.
I just hope that the sponges didn't have any anti-bacterial stuff on them. They smelled funny when I pulled them out of the bag, and said on them "these sponges are not meant to kill or sanitize on surfaces". However, they did say that the sponges "resist odors", so whatever. It's an experiment
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21823372 - 06/18/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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antibacterial would actually do you good, you are trying to grow fungi not bacteria
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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The Medic
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: Aero]
#21823766 - 06/18/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: antibacterial would actually do you good, you are trying to grow fungi not bacteria
I believe it was a general disinfectant/warder of foreign things grow. We'll have to see.
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: Aero]
#21824138 - 06/18/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: antibacterial would actually do you good, you are trying to grow fungi not bacteria
Eh, hard to say for sure what the manufacturer means by "antibacterial". May or may not be detrimental to mycelium germination/growth.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 2,667
Loc: In a forest
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This Thread
Nothing wrong with an experiment though, curious to see if it works at all.
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Mushroom_J
Hard to the Coir !



Registered: 02/17/11
Posts: 774
Loc: East
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: GreenRabbit]
#21824223 - 06/18/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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asbestos in verm lol.
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: Mushroom_J]
#21826574 - 06/19/15 02:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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For the record to everyone, asbestos is perfectly safe to eat, just not to breathe in.
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ShroominMe
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/15
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Quote:
TheEaglesGift said: For the record to everyone, asbestos is perfectly safe to eat, just not to breathe in.
Quote:
Evidence suggests that cancers in the esophagus, larynx, oral cavity, stomach, colon and kidney may be caused by ingesting asbestos.
http://oregonstate.edu/ehs/asb-when
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TheEaglesGift
The Nagual


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 10,554
Loc: Ixtlan, Mexico
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: ShroominMe]
#21830494 - 06/19/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroominMe said:
Quote:
TheEaglesGift said: For the record to everyone, asbestos is perfectly safe to eat, just not to breathe in.
Quote:
Evidence suggests that cancers in the esophagus, larynx, oral cavity, stomach, colon and kidney may be caused by ingesting asbestos.
http://oregonstate.edu/ehs/asb-when
CONCLUSIONS Although asbestos is a known human carcinogen by the inhalation route, available epidemiological studies do not support the hypothesis that an increased cancer risk is associated with the ingestion of asbestos in drinking-water. Moreover, in extensive feeding studies in animals, asbestos has not consistently increased the incidence of tumours of the gastrointestinal tract. There is therefore no consistent, convincing evidence that ingested asbestos is hazardous to health, and it is concluded that there is no need to establish a guideline for asbestos in drinking-water.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/asbestos.pdf
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Damn. All this extra work and decreased yield just to avoid the slight possibility of verm containing a toxic level of asbestos.
No thank you. I'll continue using my PC'd grain spawn, horse manure, and vermiculite.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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The Medic
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: NumeroEno]
#21832781 - 06/20/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
NumeroEno said: Damn. All this extra work and decreased yield just to avoid the slight possibility of verm containing a toxic level of asbestos.
No thank you. I'll continue using my PC'd grain spawn, horse manure, and vermiculite.
>implying I have a pressure cooker
Instead I'm using fractional sterilization since I'm paranoid about buying a pressure cooker and getting on a watch list. And they're expensive. In any case, I'd rather be safer and just avoid the possibility of asbestos near anything I'm dealing with.
General update for the thread: nothing to see as of now. I'm guessing it is either too wet or the sponges had something in them. Regardless, I'll leave it be for another few days before ruling it out...
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Grey
⇜ ✯ ⇝



Registered: 11/06/14
Posts: 6,223
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21832958 - 06/20/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You probably got yourself on a watch list saying your avoiding one.
I still hope this works out for you.
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AMU Q&A If you don't have a plan of your own, you'll become a part of somebody else's.
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NumeroEno
I come from the land of lizards



Registered: 07/24/14
Posts: 9,652
Loc: Gamehendge
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21833196 - 06/20/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol no, I didn't imply you have a pressure cooker. You can do PF cakes just fine without one. And why on earth would buying a pressure cooker get you on a watch list? For the many legitimate uses they have, there are very few illicit uses. Millions of people use pressure cookers every day for rapidly preparing a meal or canning and preserving foods. That's like saying you'd get put on a watch list for buying one pack of sudafed.
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Let it grow! Let it grow! Greatly yield! What shall we say, shall we call it by a name As well to count the angels dancing on a pin Water bright as the sky from which it came And the name is on the earth that takes it in DOG FOOD AGAR MY ELECTRIC INOCULATION LOOP
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: NumeroEno]
#21834919 - 06/21/15 12:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
NumeroEno said: lol no, I didn't imply you have a pressure cooker. You can do PF cakes just fine without one. And why on earth would buying a pressure cooker get you on a watch list? For the many legitimate uses they have, there are very few illicit uses. Millions of people use pressure cookers every day for rapidly preparing a meal or canning and preserving foods. That's like saying you'd get put on a watch list for buying one pack of sudafed.
^^^ what he said- and if you are really still worried about it- I bought mine, cash, $80 at a locally owned Asian grocer.
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Purplecapz
The Wandering Psilosopher



Registered: 06/16/13
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Re: Using sponges as substrate? [Re: The Medic]
#21844344 - 06/23/15 12:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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LOL you're trying to avoid asbestos [which has obviously not been proven to cause cancer by ingestion, only inhalation] and even then, only in cases of significant exposure..
But you're down with all the Synthetic chemicals and dyes used in those fake sponges? hahaha wow. If you were using natural sea sponges then your claim would have more legitimacy, but to me you just sound like a guy who couldn't find any vermiculite.
If you are that worried about shit then go find some mushrooms in the wild. But then you run the risk of eating a poisonous one or ingesting some sort of unknown organisms out in the wild.
I guess you gotta cut your losses, I'm no expert but I really don't see how those sponges could be safer than a little bit of asbestos, in fact it is my opinion that it could be more dangerous.
Anyways, I'm not criticizing your project as it does sound interesting and potentially might work but you shouldn't be bashing vermiculite while promoting fake sponges, doesnt really make sense
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