Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end?
    #21815538 - 06/16/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

China Dumps Record $120 Billion In US Treasurys In Two Month Via Belgium

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-15/china-dumps-record-120-billion-us-treasurys-two-month-belgium

China which was a net buyer of treasuries for a long time has started dumpling them. Is this merely a warning shot across the bow to teach obumble he better keep out of their way and do as they tell him or do they plan to destroy the usa economy?

Dumping treasuries can be tolerated for a while, as long as there are enough buyers to keep us afloat. Apparently someone or some country bought them but we don't know who. Who would be dumb enough to sink that much cash in the us dollar? Maybe it was Russian rubles buying them? They are even weaker than the dollar. Expect to see more of this as players desperately try to find a safe haven. Hint: the only safe havens are durable commodities like precious metals, land, oil, mineral rights, water rights, etc.

The day of reckoning may be closer than we thought.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejsncrs
DYEL

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21815633 - 06/16/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Is someone able to explain what's going on with the US and China in a nutshell? I've been busy as fuck and haven't really been following current events. Are we heading for WW3 or what?


Edited by jsncrs (06/16/15 05:18 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: jsncrs]
    #21815671 - 06/16/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In a nutshell, china is throwing its weight around, bullying its neighbors and obumble thinks he should do something. China is building islands in disputed regions of the china sea. The economic miracle of china is now little more than a myth and they are having hard times. They probably need the cash and love to remind obumble he is a chump.

The rest of the world is doing even worse. South America is reeling and its not just Venezuela. Even mexico is just a couple paychecks away from a crisis. Europe is crumbling before our eyes, first Cyprus, then Greece, is Italy and spain going the same way?

Off topic but bitcoin has been rising lately in the economic instability. The time to get in is now before the mad rush. This similar situation played out in early '13 just before the big run up in bitcoin when Cyprus was having its crisis. What happens if the whole world is in crisis?


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejsncrs
DYEL

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21815716 - 06/16/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the run down :thumbup:

This economic crisis has been looming for a long time now. I think the only way to fix it is to let it crumble, re-assess and re-build. I'm retarded when it comes to politics and economics but it doesn't take a genius to tell that the way things are is not sustainable.

I have 2 dollars worth of bitboin :lol: been meaning to buy more when I have some spare cash


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesaenchai
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/14
Posts: 238
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: jsncrs]
    #21816530 - 06/16/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Seems like a stock market crash is coming around September with a 30% reduction in the dollars value followed by printing and hyperinflation into 2016 leading to the dollar becoming worthless. After this cycle is finished a lot of things will probably change for the better. Bitcoins and precious metals are a good play in the next few months, so are inverse etfs or anything that bets on a large downward movement happening soon. Fuck man. Fuck


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejsncrs
DYEL

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 1,170
Loc: Mars
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: saenchai]
    #21816553 - 06/16/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

saenchai said:
Seems like a stock market crash is coming around September with a 30% reduction in the dollars value followed by printing and hyperinflation into 2016 leading to the dollar becoming worthless. After this cycle is finished a lot of things will probably change for the better. Bitcoins and precious metals are a good play in the next few months, so are inverse etfs or anything that bets on a large downward movement happening soon. Fuck man. Fuck




Interesting times ahead my friend. I honestly believe we will end up back on a gold standard in the foreseeable future. Time to get into prospecting :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: jsncrs]
    #21816836 - 06/16/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lets not panic, its looked bad before and we muddled through. Of course now it looks worse than ever before, the fundamentals are worse. The debt to income ratio is rising, borrowing to income ratio is bad as well. What have we going in our favor? Lets ask ourselves why the usa did not go under 10, 20, 30 years ago or more? We've had bad balance sheets for a while now, how is it we can still borrow all we want?

Its history, usa is the conquerer of Nazism and japan. We rebuilt Europe after the war. You're welcome. We have been the world's major military superpower for decades and a formidable economic powerhouse, even with recent down turns. You can't just toss all that aside any more than we can. We took on the role of world cop and now we are squandering money we don't have on useless wars. Defeat isis, al quaida, et al? Yeah right!!! rofl!

Along with that the usa public has been sold on this story and we believe we must live up to the legend. But is that possible any more? I predict a slow decline punctuated with periods of rapid movement, both down and up and down, etc. Just like the other times more or less. It may take 10 years or more to stabilize everything or at least get things in order. I'm waiting for $5000 a coin before I start cashing in. Then i'll kick myself when it goes to 10k and kick myself again when it crashes when I could have sold the rest of them for 10k but got too greedy.

News before its news.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesaenchai
Stranger
Registered: 10/05/14
Posts: 238
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: jsncrs]
    #21816843 - 06/16/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Heh. It wont necessarily be difficult to build wealth in that environment, I think. It's just the quantity and nature of demand shifts radically in a crisis economy. Personally, I'm saving to start a stake in foreclosure servicing or repoing. Figure there'll be plenty of those lol. No matter what people are still going to eat fuck and need entertainment and the basic modern trappings and the us will slowly chug along back to a technology and free market driven prosperity in 5-10 years, better than we've ever known before as far as i understand it. What a bother tho. Fuckin riots n shit. The masses are going to fuck shit up and the powers that be will make a last futile attempt at control. Interesting times ahead surely but fuck man. What a bother lol


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDr. P. Silocybin
Would you like fries with that?
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 2,620
Loc: The Great Divide
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: saenchai]
    #21816922 - 06/16/15 09:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know why everyone thinks the dollar is going to lose it's value. The federal reserve is about to start raising interest rates at a time when most of the central banks are printing money. Europe just started QE. The dollar will be the strongest currency in the world for the foreseeable future. That doesn't mean we are immune to another financial crisis. Stock prices seem over-inflated I think that a relatively small panic could quickly escalate into something serious.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #21817019 - 06/16/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Dr P, I agree with part of that. I too do not think the dollar will become valueless, no way. It will lose some value but we will float the loan once again and pay it all back with inflated dollars and everyone will be happy sort of. Or not happy but when times are tough they are tough. The collapse of the euro, the yen, the ruble, etc, on and on means its a row of dominoes just waiting for one to fall. They propped up Cyprus, Ireland muddled through but now Greece, soon other countries too. The contagion spreads.

We have too many goodies over here that can be bought for dollars. Want a huge luxury house on the beach or on a lake or wherever you want it? Want 10 of those gift wrapped? If you have the scratch you can buy them all. Real estate is a reliable investment particularly if it returns rent. Damn right I'm seeking rent, all I can get. A rising tide lifts all boats and many of us will prosper or at a minimum, keep afloat and not fall behind.

If you have too many dollars on your bank account, lots of us will take them off your hands, all you've got, all you want to spend. Wild nights in las vegas, pick and choose your hooker, drug of choice, vice of choice, the sky is the limit. What can you buy with rubles? What would you want that you could buy with them? Want to live in Russia? Not me, not right now. Want to live in japan next to the ongoing nuclear meltdown that has no end in sight? Not my cup of tea. USA is the vacation land of the world with beaches, mountains, deserts, night life, bizzare human creations. If you have dollars all that is yours. Better buy now because the price may be going up.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: saenchai]
    #21817776 - 06/17/15 05:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

saenchai said:
Heh. It wont necessarily be difficult to build wealth in that environment, I think. It's just the quantity and nature of demand shifts radically in a crisis economy. Personally, I'm saving to start a stake in foreclosure servicing or repoing. Figure there'll be plenty of those lol. No matter what people are still going to eat fuck and need entertainment and the basic modern trappings and the us will slowly chug along back to a technology and free market driven prosperity in 5-10 years, better than we've ever known before as far as i understand it. What a bother tho. Fuckin riots n shit. The masses are going to fuck shit up and the powers that be will make a last futile attempt at control. Interesting times ahead surely but fuck man. What a bother lol




China always used to be called "Communist China" but we don't seem to hear that much anymore.  The BRICS system is a much bigger deal than people are giving it "credit" for pun intended.  The United States is rapidly losing "market share" and the petrodollar in particular is in the worst shape.  The US isn't going to let that happen without a fight hence we head into WWIII.

China has been pushing HARD with the IMF (Belgium, hmm no coincidence there on the treasury sales beneficiaries...).  Christine (Number 7) LaGarde is meeting with them, siding with them, and it's likely a done deal other than the US protesting it.  This is to happen likely this October, and it's a huge deal.  China wants to have their currency be a reserve currency as part of the IMF SDR program.

Now, few know what the IMF SDR program is, basically, it's them issuing debt against a basket of currencies while retiring other sovereign debt.  A one world currency, in effect, as they will control the exchange rates.  In addition, gold will be a part of this.  And, China has a lot of gold.  I mean A LOT.

The beginning of the end will be fast in this country especially.  The masses have become literally dependent on the power grid/electronics.  When not if it goes down, that's the beginning of the end.  Logically, if you believe that China already hacked the OPM etc. then the blame for China hacking the grid and taking it down whether true or not will be "conventional wisdom".

Live, and learn.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #21819975 - 06/17/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Crude oil is a major factor in the world of finance and the economy. What people can't understand is why gas prices are the same as they were when oil prices were over $90 a barrel? Someone is making a killing on that and the fact the media ignores the situation tells me the fix is in.

Word is that investors have warehoused millions of barrels of crude on transport ships in hopes of prices rising and making a killing or at least not losing money. Saudi Arabia and opec are pumping as fast as they can as is Russia, Venezuela, and others. Iran soon will be able to sell its crude directly and is making barter deals for it right now, doing an end run around obumble's sanctions. When the sanctions are removed they will pump even more. Usa producers are still pumping record amounts no matter that a few were overextended and went bankrupt. They have to sell every drop they pump or frack to pay debt they owe. The world oil glut is at record levels and rising with no end in sight.

What happens if demand drops even more and oil prices collapse? That may seem like a boon to the consumer, if the drops ever trickle down to him. But it will mean major financial instability and repercussions. Oil prices are just another domino in the series, any one of which can fall and start the others falling too.

Crude would seem to be a good investment since its a commodity and in big demand but the supply is even bigger and growing. The only way prices will go up is via market manipulation which we have already seen. At some point the reality of oversupply can no longer be ignored and the house of cards does what it always does eventually.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTravelerOfSorts
sober pro
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 492
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21820944 - 06/17/15 09:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

does inflation mean savings are more useful or less usefull what would happen to property market for example if i have 15k and properties are 30k now would inflation put me closer or further form affording?>thanks


--------------------
a soul of solitude
but a master of ecstacy
in waiting for my rebirth cycle i have hopes that when mushrooms find me it will occur then and i can go about the world as a medicine man
walking staff in one hand spaceship in the other
a journeyman of nature soon to be stepping up to novice hopefully i will have time to become an expert, and i believe only in death will i become a master


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTravelerOfSorts
sober pro
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 492
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21821071 - 06/17/15 09:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
What happens if demand drops even more and oil prices collapse? 




TESLA/TSL goes into infrastructures  word

I would bet masonic groups would probably vocalize themslefs=D


--------------------
a soul of solitude
but a master of ecstacy
in waiting for my rebirth cycle i have hopes that when mushrooms find me it will occur then and i can go about the world as a medicine man
walking staff in one hand spaceship in the other
a journeyman of nature soon to be stepping up to novice hopefully i will have time to become an expert, and i believe only in death will i become a master


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: TravelerOfSorts]
    #21823477 - 06/18/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TravelerOfSorts said:
does inflation mean savings are more useful or less usefull what would happen to property market for example if i have 15k and properties are 30k now would inflation put me closer or further form affording?>thanks




It means savings are less "useful" as your dollar is worth less at the same time property is likely appreciating which is why it likely appreciated.  Kind of depends on what interest rates are doing and if they are high then property may not have appreciated all that much but your payment for a loan to buy property when up a bunch.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Stonehenge]
    #21823505 - 06/18/15 12:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Crude oil is a major factor in the world of finance and the economy. What people can't understand is why gas prices are the same as they were when oil prices were over $90 a barrel? Someone is making a killing on that and the fact the media ignores the situation tells me the fix is in.

Word is that investors have warehoused millions of barrels of crude on transport ships in hopes of prices rising and making a killing or at least not losing money. Saudi Arabia and opec are pumping as fast as they can as is Russia, Venezuela, and others. Iran soon will be able to sell its crude directly and is making barter deals for it right now, doing an end run around obumble's sanctions. When the sanctions are removed they will pump even more. Usa producers are still pumping record amounts no matter that a few were overextended and went bankrupt. They have to sell every drop they pump or frack to pay debt they owe. The world oil glut is at record levels and rising with no end in sight.

What happens if demand drops even more and oil prices collapse? That may seem like a boon to the consumer, if the drops ever trickle down to him. But it will mean major financial instability and repercussions. Oil prices are just another domino in the series, any one of which can fall and start the others falling too.

Crude would seem to be a good investment since its a commodity and in big demand but the supply is even bigger and growing. The only way prices will go up is via market manipulation which we have already seen. At some point the reality of oversupply can no longer be ignored and the house of cards does what it always does eventually.




China has a shit ton of oil tanks and are hoping to get a reserve similar to the U.S.  Their economy isn't nearly as robust as advertised, but they sell Russia their manufactured products in exchange for oil and completely bypass the USD.  The other product that China really needs to start using from Russia and probably storing as LNG and then actually using that more in vehicles is Natural Gas.  Tha is in the works too with Russia.  China really has to stop burning all that coal or completely choke on the pollution.  It's insane over there, what a bunch of knuckleheads with no environmental concern.

Speaking of the beginning of the end, as advertised the TPA got passed WITHOUT the TAA today.  It's a done deal.  The TPP is next, and the big companies just can't wait to get unlimited power and be able to have zero environmental "problems" and get to sue GOVERNMENTS who dare to not let them make maximum $$.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #21823651 - 06/18/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
I don't know why everyone thinks the dollar is going to lose it's value. The federal reserve is about to start raising interest rates at a time when most of the central banks are printing money. Europe just started QE. The dollar will be the strongest currency in the world for the foreseeable future.



agreed; been sayin it for a while now


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 13 seconds
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: Dr. P. Silocybin]
    #21823865 - 06/18/15 02:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Dr. P. Silocybin said:
I don't know why everyone thinks the dollar is going to lose it's value. The federal reserve is about to start raising interest rates at a time when most of the central banks are printing money. Europe just started QE. The dollar will be the strongest currency in the world for the foreseeable future. That doesn't mean we are immune to another financial crisis. Stock prices seem over-inflated I think that a relatively small panic could quickly escalate into something serious.




The US dollar is the best of all developed nations currencies, but unfortunately that's not saying very much as the Euro, Yen, and Pound all have major issues.

What the US has are major imbalances with countries like China, the currencies are suppose to adjust to those major imbalances, but it hasn't happened because both side enjoy the current status quo.

If China wanted a stronger Yuan it come happen tomorrow, but they don't want that outcome, If the US wanted a cheaper Dollar it could also happen tomorrow, but again the people making big profits from the status quo aren't willing to do it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblememes
Blessed


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: qman]
    #21824662 - 06/18/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

when the dollar was super cheap you were saying 'the people making big profits from the status quo aren't willing to do it' (regarding raising teh value of the dollar).

said they were printing cash to inflate away our savings and increase their wealth to new amazing heights. 








damn those people making big profits!  always winning, no matter what!  we just lose!  bah!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleStonehenge
Alt Center
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
Re: China is dumping us treasuries. Is this the beginning of the end? [Re: memes]
    #21824898 - 06/18/15 06:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

They will print up shiploads of cash to pay off the debt and all holders of cash lose because more dollars chasing the same amount of goods means higher prices. Actually, printing up all those $100 bills costs too much so they just create it with the wave of a wand and voila, there it is in bank accounts waiting to be wired to big business with connections to obumble, or the next pres whoever he is.

Few of us will get rich off the realignments because you already have to be stinking rich to profit from it. If you just have a million or two, you might feel rich but you are merely middle class and sinking fast. You need to own a huge conglomerate that can pay out the hefty bribes obumble, hillbilly and others demand. Not just a 200k speaking fee, that gets you in the door to make your real offer. You have to pledge and give millions, they will launder it through a fake charity that the dept of justice never seems to investigate. That may change if a gop gets in.

Soon as a major country starts going under, that's when the fun begins. Greece is big, it is causing waves and could possibly sink the ship. If Europe starts going down, the undertow will pull down all other weak economies, japan especially since they are in a debt economy too. South America is on life support, Russia we've discussed, they are hurting bad. USA can't survive if no one will loan more money and worse yet if they demand repayment of debt. That is the real death knell.

It all looks so fragile you think it will fall down any moment. But it keeps going like nothing can make it collapse. When we think all is well and there is light in the tunnel, that's when it will strike, when you least expect it.

I just hope my tenants don't lose their jobs.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Gold -- Here's 45 financial experts who claim it will soon go way over the $1.000 mark!
( 1 2 3 all )
Asante 16,024 53 02/10/08 09:16 AM
by Caribou_Lou
* STOCKS - An Intro Tutorial & Ongoing Discussion
( 1 2 3 4 ... 289 290 )
geokillsA 296,600 5,797 01/29/24 08:05 AM
by geokills

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: geokills, automan
2,480 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.