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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? * 3
    #21812623 - 06/15/15 09:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Habitat:
Where does it grow? Lowe's Garden Center

print black
1


Gills:
adnate
2


Stem:
long, thin, tan

chopping this puppy up
3



4


gill edge i'm zooming in on (hopefully thats what it is and i didnt loose track)
5

smooth ass spores - i'll dig up the spore measuring software in a bit
5



likely not useful but pretty
6


7

ooo- whats this? 8

zoom 9


10



11



just so noobs dont go plucking random things at lawn n garden places and think its all good, i also found these

bad


i have to admit, this is fun

lowes.  lol.

anyhow, if some of you micro savy people can help a guy decifer what he's seeing, that would be tits.

i'm off to do some of my own reading/review and give some of these structures names, but feel free to tell me too if you know what they are.


--------------------
bite my basidiocarp


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Offlinejsncrs
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21812632 - 06/15/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Can't offer any insight unfortunately, but I'd like to know what sort of microscope you're using? looking at getting one soon


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: jsncrs] * 1
    #21812760 - 06/15/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

its a low end amscope 40-1000x, very affordable.

seems they don't carry the model anymore but its along these lines i guess.  it does have a condenser.  read up on the various bits before you get one.  definately get a mechanical stage.

http://www.amscope.com/microscopes/advanced-student-biological-microscope-40x-1000x.html

also i believe alan recomends a binocular scope, i haven't ever used one but i'll take his word for it, so if you have the scratch you might consider it.

p.s. i'm just shooting down the barrel freehand with my samsung, so you might want to get a cam at the same time, i'm looking for one cuz this is a royal PITA and i keep scaring the dog cussing.


Edited by RuralAnomaly (06/15/15 10:20 PM)


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Invisibleo8u
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21812799 - 06/15/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Nice micrographs man! Those second ones look like they're loaded with amatoxins. They look really similar to Pholiotina besides the lack of an annulus.


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Offlinejsncrs
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21812810 - 06/15/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RuralAnomaly said:
its a low end amscope 40-1000x, very affordable.

seems they don't carry the model anymore but its along these lines i guess.  it does have a condenser.  read up on the various bits before you get one.  definately get a mechanical stage.

http://www.amscope.com/microscopes/advanced-student-biological-microscope-40x-1000x.html

also i believe alan recomends a binocular scope, i haven't ever used one but i'll take his word for it, so if you have the scratch you might consider it.

p.s. i'm just shooting down the barrel freehand with my samsung, so you might want to get a cam at the same time, i'm looking for one cuz this is a royal PITA and i keep scaring the dog cussing.




Sweet cheers for the info man! cool pics btw


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: o8u]
    #21812836 - 06/15/15 10:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

o8u said:
Nice micrographs man! Those second ones look like they're loaded with amatoxins. They look really similar to Pholiotina besides the lack of an annulus.




thanks! at least you can kinda see whats going on in the pics.  i kept the other ones too but i wasn't as keyed to cut em up tonight lol
since i finally got a place to call a bench again, before i put things away i would like to look at those too.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21812856 - 06/15/15 10:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Nice find. I love checking garden centers/nurseries, I've seen Gyms at Home Depot more than once.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: Ran-D]
    #21813053 - 06/15/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

thanks man!  my eyes are crossing so cystidia have to wait


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21818703 - 06/17/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

spore measurements:

Piximètre 5.6 R 1629 : le 17/06/2015 à 00:10:19.1068545

'  12 [12.8 ; 13.6] 14.4 x 6.9 [7.5 ; 8] 8.6 mu
'  Q = 1.6 [1.7] 1.8 ; N = 10 ; C = 95%
'  Me = 13.2 x 7.7 mu ; Qe = 1.7

12.10 7.10
13.03 7.62
12.59 7.07
13.70 8.05
13.86 7.78
13.73 7.84
12.81 7.42
13.03 8.31
13.21 7.94
13.97 8.25

Piximètre 5.6 R 1629 : le 17/06/2015 à 00:19:21.9319023

'  9.9 [11.6 ; 13.1] 14.7 x 6 [7 ; 7.9] 9 mu
'  Q = 1.4 [1.6 ; 1.7] 1.9 ; N = 10 ; C = 95%
'  Me = 12.3 x 7.5 mu ; Qe = 1.7

12.64 7.42
12.02 6.41
12.13 7.11
14.12 8.23
12.86 7.75
12.47 7.09
12.10 8.10
13.01 8.06
12.62 8.35
9.30 6.14

so i guess i'll go with somewhere in the range of 12.5 x 7.5mu as a descriptor.

i'm not having a lot of luck finding images to compare so far though on the cystidia,  but i ain't done yet!

hep me byrain!


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21818763 - 06/17/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Are there any metuloid cystidia or sulphidia on the gill face?  You can take only a little bit of the gill face and crush that to make sure you are looking at the right area.

Quote:

o8u said:
Nice micrographs man! Those second ones look like they're loaded with amatoxins. They look really similar to Pholiotina besides the lack of an annulus.




Its only Pholiotina sect. Pholiotina that are annulate, the others aren't.  FAN6 includes 4 Pholiotina keys, for annulate species, for species that aren't annulate, but still have a veil, for species that have no veil period (Have to examine young specimens to be sure) and one that has everything for when the veil is not clear.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: Byrain]
    #21820359 - 06/17/15 07:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Byrain said:
Are there any metuloid cystidia or sulphidia on the gill face?  You can take only a little bit of the gill face and crush that to make sure you are looking at the right area.






k, will try.  no reagents to speak of, but by god i'll try to find sulfidia.  after i re-read a bit
thanks

i think if i don't that means something, doesn't it lol


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21820389 - 06/17/15 07:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Probably don't need any regents, just a thin enough section.  The smaller it is the easier it will be to work with.  See these two observations for what is probably sulphidia to compare with (If they are present).

http://mushroomobserver.org/158389?q=2add4
http://mushroomobserver.org/160426?q=2add4

Metuloid cystidia will be much more obvious, but you will only find those if this is a lost Copelandia...  The pale stem does make me wonder about that though.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21820953 - 06/17/15 09:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

thanks.  i always forget how many micrographs there are on m-oberver, its just a grind to find em.  however, i think one of your comments on another observation lead me to search for this species PANAEOLUS SUBFIRMUS, and lo - this pdf has a key in it too - more the merrier?
its specific to poland but the mushrooms aren't

someone else might also find it useful:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.degruyter.com%2Fdg%2Fviewarticle.fullcontentlink%3Apdfeventlink%2F%24002fj%24002fpbj.2014.59.issue-2%24002fpbj-2014-0029%24002fpbj-2014-0029.pdf%3Fformat%3DINT%26t%3Aac%3Dj%24002fpbj.2014.59.issue-2%24002fpbj-2014-0029%24002fpbj-2014-0029.xml&ei=UjeCVZnkE5PeoAT70KfgBw&usg=AFQjCNGpwWkSsZ-uu7mgjdNxfrNZ-L4F_w&bvm=bv.96042044,d.cGU

i know the link looks ungodly but it prompts you to download the pdf


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21821028 - 06/17/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Cool, I don't have that, they even include a key to the Polish species of Panaeolus.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: Byrain]
    #21831022 - 06/20/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

been working at this when i have time... so far this is where i'm at -
fortunately or... unfortunately i now have another mystery mushroom, also found at lowes ... i'll toss up some pics in a minute, so this one is now christened "Lowes One"


micro observations

gill edge clearly lighter

cistidea tubiform, capitate  25-30mu

2 spored basidia?  trouble finding clearly defined ones
spores large, smooth - don't appear very flattened
spores amygdaliform with apex in side view
with germ pore, and apical papilla
no oil droplets
wall not particularly thick

pleurocystidia not abundant, or not found

sulfidia not apparent to me

pilius: defined cells
i think i see clamp connections but were hard to photograph

so far, the micro is leading me to Paneolus cinctulus but the macro morphology doesn't seem right.  it just seems too convex,  anyone else have an opinion?  on what to call it?

especially in light of the next finds


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21831049 - 06/20/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

guess we'll call this one Lowes Two. 



its in lavander if anyone's curious....

cystidia


four spored basidia with naicent spores attached

what has me puzzled here is that the spores are tiny  - unless my calibration is off

i do understand there are two and four basidia varieties and the two ones have larger spores as a result, but this is ridiculous.  maybe my mag is only 400 here and i'm stupid at keeping track.  that might be the easy explanation and i'll have to reinvestigate when i can
meantime...

P. microsporus a possibility?



Piximètre 5.6 R 1629 : le 20/06/2015 à 02:36:12.9629218

'  4.2 [4.7 ; 5] 5.4 x 2.6 [2.9 ; 3.1] 3.3 mu
'  Q = 1.4 [1.6 ; 1.7] 1.8 ; N = 15 ; C = 95%
'  Me = 4.8 x 3 mu ; Qe = 1.6

4.81 3.21
4.84 2.95
4.15 2.58
4.73 2.99
4.66 3.00
5.14 3.16
5.28 3.20
4.71 3.01
4.87 2.99
4.84 3.01
5.23 3.12
4.71 2.92
4.71 2.83
4.60 2.92
5.28 2.75

any help on this one also appreciated

please don't make fools of yourselves at your local nurseries.  be discrete.

and a teaser... yes!! INDEED 

Lowes THREE..... mwahaha



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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21831120 - 06/20/15 02:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's Panaeolus cinctulus.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21831156 - 06/20/15 02:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
It's Panaeolus cinctulus.




A small-spored variety or are the measurements wrong? They seem to show about half the size of normal P. cinctulus spores.


--------------------




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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #21831178 - 06/20/15 03:07 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
A small-spored variety or are the measurements wrong? They seem to show about half the size of normal P. cinctulus spores.





Maybe the scope was calibrated for 1000x, but the photos were taken at 400x?


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #21831720 - 06/20/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

yes, this is what i suspect i did cuz i was really tired while doing some of this micro.

if you give it another 60% the measurements jibe with cincts.

spores that small are just out of ballpark range imo

i'll do another section and see what i get later tonight but Alan is likely right


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: found at Lowe's - attn Byrain? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21834497 - 06/20/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

alan, while i was painting the bathroom i realized i forgot to ask. 

both are P. cinctulus or the second?  i presume #3 is since they look spot on with umbonate caps, but #1 is very convex.

and also forgot to say thanks!


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