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SirShroomsAlott
Howdy



Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: qman] 3
#21810074 - 06/15/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
If you can't even admit that tasing a kid multiple times even AFTER he has been subdued, you have to be blind to your own bias. Say he did resist a legal arrest, fine, you tased him, now he's incapacitated, but then you tased him some more? Get the fuck out of here.
"Just comply", this is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard people say, should you not be allowed to resist an unjust arrest? In your guys minds, are you still in the wrong for resisting an unjust arrest? Is this fucking fascism? So we should just let cops do whatever they want and hope the courts sort it out later, because you know, they never get it wrong. They should just have complete authority over us and we should listen 100% of the time regardless of what they're saying and hope it gets sorted out, this is basically what you guys want from the sounds of it. This literally goes against what America was fucking built for, the rights we were given to make sure our government stays in line.
Then you guys are saying, we don't know what happened before, okay, neither do you, all we have to go off is the witness testimony, and that's probably the ONLY evidence well be able to get, but the cop says differently so we should just skip everything the witnesses said? We only have their testimony as witness, that's all we can base our judgments on unless more information comes out.
Every time a police thread pops up in the pub, it's immediately going to be a joke, if you think all cops are right all the time, or all cops are wrong all the time, you're fucking ridiculous. One of my best friends is a cop and EVEN HE showed me videos of police wrongdoing.
The clear ignorance both sides have is just going to make this thread turn into 18 pages of the same 6 people going back and forth defending their side, with neither side even slightly budging on their position.
If you really can't admit that this cop went even slightly overboard with a child, then you're ignorant and can't be reasoned with, because it's obvious that you will never admit a cop can be in the wrong.
"But you don't know what happened before the video" That does not matter, again, if you can't admit this was even a little tiny bit overboard, then I can't see any way you can be reasoned with.
For a website where so many members claim to be "open minded", there's a fuck ton of extremely one sided ignorance that goes on here.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 8 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21810075 - 06/15/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms said:
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Turtletotem said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
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koods said: A majority of police killings are not reported officially.
So you don't know what the actual number is.
You should ease off the hyperbole. It might make more of your posts come off as rational.
Psst... that means that the actual number is way higher then reported.
Psst... no. That means the actual number MAY be higher than reported.
Zimmerman is a highly unstable person. I have no idea why you continue to defend the guy. He's gonna end up killing more people. It is inevitable.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: koods]
#21810076 - 06/15/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: You will never be satisfied that there is enough information.
Nope. That's why I keep learning new things.
Perhaps you should give it a try.
Try this first... go a day without hyperbole. While you seem incapable of that, if you try I bet your head explodes.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#21810079 - 06/15/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirShroomsAlott said: This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
What's obvious is that many leap to conclusions without all the information.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21810083 - 06/15/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is obvious is that you will defend bad cops no matter what, all under the pretense of reason. It's not fooling anybody.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: koods]
#21810085 - 06/15/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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koods said: Zimmerman is a highly unstable person. I have no idea why you continue to defend the guy. He's gonna end up killing more people. It is inevitable.
I didn't defend, or even mention, Zimmerman.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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FreeTheSoul
The wonderer.
Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 2,297
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: Asante] 1
#21810087 - 06/15/15 10:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I want to see a video where a cop attacks a harmless person with his gun/taser and then a innocent bystander attacks the cop and knocks the fucker out. Then felonious assault with a weapon will be tacked on to the cop and he will have good relationships in jail/prison. Mostly I just want to see some vigilante justice, while I have faith in some of the justice system sometimes vigilante justice is just what some folks need. Plus if you start seeing videos of cops getting the shit beat out of and or prosecuted after committing crimes cops would be way less likely to do it cause in this time and age cops know that the only thing being pulled on them 99% of the time is a smart phone and they also know its there word vs the citizens. To bad there isn't a group of TRUE AMERICANS, that break unjust laws and catch corrupt LEO. Cops are just like a lot of criminals, most criminals start out and think they will never get caught ever, just like cops.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: Turtletotem]
#21810092 - 06/15/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said: What is obvious is that you will defend bad cops no matter what, all under the pretense of reason. It's not fooling anybody.
What's obvious is that your comprehension sucks.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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SirShroomsAlott
Howdy



Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21810095 - 06/15/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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SirShroomsAlott said: This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
What's obvious is that many leap to conclusions without all the information.
Yes it is, but it's also obvious that if you think a kid face who is face down who isn't putting his arms behind his back because he can't and even said he couldn't, should be tased for a second time because of it, and then in the same sentence say everything is 100% fine with this, you have a bias.
Should the cop be fired and have death threats or be forced to resign, no, but if you seriously can't say this was overboard, even just a little, then this whole thread is pointless.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: Patlal]
#21810096 - 06/15/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Patlal said: A) Before even getting out of the car, the officer should first be aware that an increasing mount of people are seeing police as overly aggressive due to the Internet
so police should first fear youtube and then probably do nothing because they have to worry about the backlash
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B) Ask politely to stop skating. That way nobody feels threatned enough to feel like they should run away.
C) Clearly expain to the kid what the infraction was and explaining why it is against the law. The kid is young, he probably never read the criminal code of the USA so he probably isn't aware of all the laws yet except the big bad ones.
are you assuming that isnt how these encounters start or do you believe like all the other liberals here that the cops immediately jump out of the car and start tasing and beating people right before they kill them for skateboarding
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D) Ask the kid if he understands that what he did was wrong and maybe even his friends too while were at it
the cops arent the kid's parents, how about parents start getting locked up as well for not keeping their little brats on a short leash
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******** If at any point the kid tries to assault the cop, only then is violence necessary********
hahahaha... and if the kid runs? and if during a patdown the kid starts acting like a tool?
clearly you arent seeing this, no matter what the cops do, it's the wrong course of action to the liberal base, if the cop shoots a suspect that's proven himself to be violent and dangerous it was the wrong thing, a taser would have been the right choice, when a taser is used it was the wrong choice, a firm talking to was the better option, when pepper spray is used it's the wrong choice because something other than that could have been used
no matter what the cops do it's the wrong choice according to the liberals
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: koods]
#21810104 - 06/15/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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koods said: Zimmerman is a highly unstable person. I have no idea why you continue to defend the guy. He's gonna end up killing more people. It is inevitable.
according to you
how many times have you made national news over a simple traffic citation?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 25 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#21810110 - 06/15/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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SirShroomsAlott said: This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
If you can't even admit that tasing a kid multiple times even AFTER he has been subdued, you have to be blind to your own bias. Say he did resist a legal arrest, fine, you tased him, now he's incapacitated, but then you tased him some more? Get the fuck out of here.
"Just comply", this is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard people say, should you not be allowed to resist an unjust arrest? In your guys minds, are you still in the wrong for resisting an unjust arrest? Is this fucking fascism? So we should just let cops do whatever they want and hope the courts sort it out later, because you know, they never get it wrong. They should just have complete authority over us and we should listen 100% of the time regardless of what they're saying and hope it gets sorted out, this is basically what you guys want from the sounds of it. This literally goes against what America was fucking built for, the rights we were given to make sure our government stays in line.
Then you guys are saying, we don't know what happened before, okay, neither do you, all we have to go off is the witness testimony, and that's probably the ONLY evidence well be able to get, but the cop says differently so we should just skip everything the witnesses said? We only have their testimony as witness, that's all we can base our judgments on unless more information comes out.
Every time a police thread pops up in the pub, it's immediately going to be a joke, if you think all cops are right all the time, or all cops are wrong all the time, you're fucking ridiculous. One of my best friends is a cop and EVEN HE showed me videos of police wrongdoing.
The clear ignorance both sides have is just going to make this thread turn into 18 pages of the same 6 people going back and forth defending their side, with neither side even slightly budging on their position.
If you really can't admit that this cop went even slightly overboard with a child, then you're ignorant and can't be reasoned with, because it's obvious that you will never admit a cop can be in the wrong.
"But you don't know what happened before the video" That does not matter, again, if you can't admit this was even a little tiny bit overboard, then I can't see any way you can be reasoned with.
For a website where so many members claim to be "open minded", there's a fuck ton of extremely one sided ignorance that goes on here.
"should you not be allowed to resist an unjust arrest?"
Wait for your day in court, don't fight it in the streets with law enforcement. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?
And yes, it does matter what happened before the video started, we don't know anything about this case, why are you so judgmental?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#21810112 - 06/15/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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SirShroomsAlott said: This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
What's obvious is that many leap to conclusions without all the information.
Yes it is, but it's also obvious that if you think a kid face who is face down who isn't putting his arms behind his back because he can't and even said he couldn't, should be tased for a second time because of it, and then in the same sentence say everything is 100% fine with this, you have a bias.
Should the cop be fired and have death threats or be forced to resign, no, but if you seriously can't say this was overboard, even just a little, then this whole thread is pointless.
As I've repeatedly said, we don't see the beginning or the end of the confrontation and therefore have no basis to know one way or the other.
If that's bias... I can live with it, though I suggest the purchase of a dictionary might be in your best interest.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21810115 - 06/15/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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"The liberal base"
If you stop seeing people as either liberals and conservatives, ie. Them and Us, maybe you'd see a lot further then you do now.
I'm not a liberal nor a progressive. But bad cops are bad cops, I don't need no ideology or religion to tell me right from wrong.
Note how people had to delete all evidence after the fact, luckily someone got the images out.
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Edited by Turtletotem (06/15/15 10:30 AM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: koods]
#21810116 - 06/15/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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koods said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
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koods said:
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Prisoner#1 said:
hey koods, how many people did the cops kill in 2011 that were not justifiable
Pris, it took a reporter for the Washington post two months to investsigate this because of poor reporting to the FBI. How many cops were charged out of almost 10,000 homicides? 54. Under 30 were convicted.mif you think that accurately represents the true number, you are delusional.
hey koods, how many police shootings were not justified?
I've seen what reporters do, remember zimmerman who now has to fear for hi life on a daily basis, that's what reporters do, they inject opinion, not facts
Most of them are not necessary. If other countries can go months or years without having police kill people, why not us? Because we have a completely corrupt and broken cop culture. You seem to defend these people like they are family. I'm sorry you have family members who are morally and ethically bankrupt.
hey koods, how many of the police shooting were not justifiable?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,059
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 8 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: Prisoner#1]
#21810118 - 06/15/15 10:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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How is it that the rest of the civilized world knows how to police the streets without resorting violence?
Total fatal police shootings/law enforcement homicides per year
United States 930 Canada 25 Germany 8 Australia 5 United Kingdom 2 Japan 0
- See more at: http://theindependent.ca/2015/04/14/stop-the-killing-fatal-police-shootings-in-canada/#sthash.XrvH0n6t.dpuf
LOL. The article is about stopping the rash of Canadian police shootings. Apparently in other countries 25 is too many per year. That's what the US sees In a week.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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SirShroomsAlott
Howdy



Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21810120 - 06/15/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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SirShroomsAlott said: This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
What's obvious is that many leap to conclusions without all the information.
Yes it is, but it's also obvious that if you think a kid face who is face down who isn't putting his arms behind his back because he can't and even said he couldn't, should be tased for a second time because of it, and then in the same sentence say everything is 100% fine with this, you have a bias.
Should the cop be fired and have death threats or be forced to resign, no, but if you seriously can't say this was overboard, even just a little, then this whole thread is pointless.
As I've repeatedly said, we don't see the beginning or the end of the confrontation and therefore have no basis to know one way or the other.
If that's bias... I can live with it, though I suggest the purchase of a dictionary might be in your best interest.
I don't care what happened before or after the video, I'm talking about what happened during the video....He tased the kid once, the kid turned onto his stomach incapacitated, the cop then says, put your arms behind you back, the kid states, I can't, the cop then tases him again.....if you think that isn't slightly wrong, you do in fact, have a bias.
I'll look into that dictionary, I'd suggest you look into comprehending what you're reading.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: koods]
#21810121 - 06/15/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: How is it that the rest of the civilized world knows how to police the streets without resorting violence?
Total fatal police shootings/law enforcement homicides per year
United States 930 Canada 25 Germany 8 Australia 5 United Kingdom 2 Japan 0
- See more at: http://theindependent.ca/2015/04/14/stop-the-killing-fatal-police-shootings-in-canada/#sthash.XrvH0n6t.dpuf
LOL. The article is about stopping the rash of Canadian police shootings. Apparently in other countries 25 is too many per year. That's what the US sees In a week.
Apple to oranges unless they let the worlds cops work here for a year or two.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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SirShroomsAlott
Howdy



Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: qman]
#21810123 - 06/15/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
SirShroomsAlott said: This whole thread is ridiculous, it's so obvious that one side cops can do no wrong, and the other side cops can do no right.
If you can't even admit that tasing a kid multiple times even AFTER he has been subdued, you have to be blind to your own bias. Say he did resist a legal arrest, fine, you tased him, now he's incapacitated, but then you tased him some more? Get the fuck out of here.
"Just comply", this is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard people say, should you not be allowed to resist an unjust arrest? In your guys minds, are you still in the wrong for resisting an unjust arrest? Is this fucking fascism? So we should just let cops do whatever they want and hope the courts sort it out later, because you know, they never get it wrong. They should just have complete authority over us and we should listen 100% of the time regardless of what they're saying and hope it gets sorted out, this is basically what you guys want from the sounds of it. This literally goes against what America was fucking built for, the rights we were given to make sure our government stays in line.
Then you guys are saying, we don't know what happened before, okay, neither do you, all we have to go off is the witness testimony, and that's probably the ONLY evidence well be able to get, but the cop says differently so we should just skip everything the witnesses said? We only have their testimony as witness, that's all we can base our judgments on unless more information comes out.
Every time a police thread pops up in the pub, it's immediately going to be a joke, if you think all cops are right all the time, or all cops are wrong all the time, you're fucking ridiculous. One of my best friends is a cop and EVEN HE showed me videos of police wrongdoing.
The clear ignorance both sides have is just going to make this thread turn into 18 pages of the same 6 people going back and forth defending their side, with neither side even slightly budging on their position.
If you really can't admit that this cop went even slightly overboard with a child, then you're ignorant and can't be reasoned with, because it's obvious that you will never admit a cop can be in the wrong.
"But you don't know what happened before the video" That does not matter, again, if you can't admit this was even a little tiny bit overboard, then I can't see any way you can be reasoned with.
For a website where so many members claim to be "open minded", there's a fuck ton of extremely one sided ignorance that goes on here.
"should you not be allowed to resist an unjust arrest?"
Wait for your day in court, don't fight it in the streets with law enforcement. Why is that such a difficult concept to understand?
And yes, it does matter what happened before the video started, we don't know anything about this case, why are you so judgmental?
Because he tased the kid, after he had him subdued, that's my judgment.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Psychotic cop brutalizes chokes and tases a 12 year old skater kid, then claims to be a victim [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#21810127 - 06/15/15 10:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirShroomsAlott said: I don't care what happened before or after the video, I'm talking about what happened during the video....He tased the kid once, the kid turned onto his stomach incapacitated, the cop then says, put your arms behind you back, the kid states, I can't, the cop then tases him again.....if you think that isn't slightly wrong, you do in fact, have a bias.
I'll look into that dictionary, I'd suggest you look into comprehending what you're reading.
As the video isn't from close up, I'll stick with my bias free... "we don't know".
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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