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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: qman]
    #21814548 - 06/16/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They do have their own section. It's called solitary confinement.




What's your solution?




Put them in women's prison


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21814658 - 06/16/15 01:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Where do you draw the line though?

I think gender is similar to race in that they are both social constructs where the popular understanding is based on stereotypes. 

Dealing with trans people in prison wouldn't be such an issue if we weren't imprisoning such a high percentage of our population, and if our prisons weren't so fucked up.  I don't blame or resent trans women for trying to go to women's prison, but I would be very surprised if they just made a sweeping rule that allowed anyone to go to the prison assigned to the gender they identify as.  That just wouldn't work.  It seems like only the ones who look feminine would be allowed in, which is pretty much special treatment and essentially unfair as that doesn't have anything to do with the character of a person.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21814675 - 06/16/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
You can wax grandiloquent all you like, you can lob all the insults disguised as even-handedness you like, it won't alleviate the essential inhumanity of the case you are making.




What a glorious sentence.  I had no idea you had it in you.  "wax grandiloquent "  Fucking awesome.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21814701 - 06/16/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Where do you draw the line though?

I think gender is similar to race in that they are both social constructs where the popular understanding is based on stereotypes.




Neither are social constructs and trans is biological due to the varying stages of development of the brain and the genitals.  Race, on the other hand, is not.
Quote:



Dealing with trans people in prison wouldn't be such an issue if we weren't imprisoning such a high percentage of our population, and if our prisons weren't so fucked up.  I don't blame or resent trans women for trying to go to women's prison, but I would be very surprised if they just made a sweeping rule that allowed anyone to go to the prison assigned to the gender they identify as.  That just wouldn't work.  It seems like only the ones who look feminine would be allowed in, which is pretty much special treatment and essentially unfair as that doesn't have anything to do with the character of a person.




There is not a heterosexual man in the world who wouldn't declare himself a woman in order to get women's prison privilege if we were to accept this.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21814719 - 06/16/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They do have their own section. It's called solitary confinement.




What's your solution?




Put them in women's prison




The potential for abusing that policy would be immeasurable.


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: qman]
    #21814881 - 06/16/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They do have their own section. It's called solitary confinement.




What's your solution?




Put them in women's prison




The potential for abusing that policy would be immeasurable.




It'd be like Juwanna Mann on a terrifying scale.


--------------------
"I didn't know chicken's wore suspenders" - Towelie



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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21814897 - 06/16/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
Not inhumane throwing a transgender person into male prison given they committed a crime. Because likely they are just using that as an advantage wherever they go. I bet if a transgender was in open population in a female prison that tranny would be a dominate male soon after. Change the environment and that happens. Also I've watched that prison max show and they had a gay one and all the trannys were in the male section or in a special gay area. They were not in a female prison.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Where do you draw the line though?

I think gender is similar to race in that they are both social constructs where the popular understanding is based on stereotypes.




Neither are social constructs and trans is biological due to the varying stages of development of the brain and the genitals.  Race, on the other hand, is not.
Quote:



Dealing with trans people in prison wouldn't be such an issue if we weren't imprisoning such a high percentage of our population, and if our prisons weren't so fucked up.  I don't blame or resent trans women for trying to go to women's prison, but I would be very surprised if they just made a sweeping rule that allowed anyone to go to the prison assigned to the gender they identify as.  That just wouldn't work.  It seems like only the ones who look feminine would be allowed in, which is pretty much special treatment and essentially unfair as that doesn't have anything to do with the character of a person.




There is not a heterosexual man in the world who wouldn't declare himself a woman in order to get women's prison privilege if we were to accept this.




Only Post-OP

better yet

chastity device

oh god that I just said that :rofl2:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: qman]
    #21814919 - 06/16/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

BlindSophist said:
They do have their own section. It's called solitary confinement.




What's your solution?




Put them in women's prison




The potential for abusing that policy would be immeasurable.




That's what the social conservatives say about policies that protect the right of trans people to use restrooms and changing facilities corresponding to their proper gender, but it never happens. There is no benefit for a predator to pretend to be a woman to get into women's spaces, this is merely a fear tactic.

Any policy that would send trans people to appropriate correctional facilities would obviously screen out people who are gaming the system. Since in this case the practical onus is one and the same as the inmate's medical history, the courts would only need to check their records and, in the case of those who have been self-administering hormones, run an elementary medical exam.

Going to prison is never a "special privilege" but it's the government's responsibility to adequately provide for the health and welfare of those in its custody. Sending transgender prisoners to misgendered correctional facilities amounts to cruel and unusual punishment.

Everybody acts like this is so complicated. But it's really not.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Sophistic Radiance (06/16/15 02:42 PM)


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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21814978 - 06/16/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think the prison system has a lot bigger problems like keeping prisoners from escaping then screening which trannys would take advantage of the system.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21815090 - 06/16/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
But it's really not.




Correct. Assign them based on chromosomes.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21815093 - 06/16/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Karyotyping would actually be more costly and less effective than a simple testosterone count.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21815105 - 06/16/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Your weird obsession with chromosomes even where not appropriate makes me wonder if you have connections to the karyotype industry you're not telling us about. :notsureif:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21815114 - 06/16/15 03:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

A simple XY / XX would suffice.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21815134 - 06/16/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BlindSophist said:
Your weird obsession with chromosomes even where not appropriate makes me wonder if you have connections to the karyotype industry you're not telling us about.




Nope. I've just been aware for decades that a male has XY and a female has XX.

You don't get to tell me where my "weird obsession with chromosomes" takes me... or science.

It's perfectly appropriate and accurate.

I'll give you credit for a humorous line though.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21815150 - 06/16/15 03:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The government has a responsibility to ensure the safety of everybody incarcerated. Everybody


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21815158 - 06/16/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
A simple XY / XX would suffice.




Some (genetically XY) males born with AIS have totally non-functional androgen receptors from the time of conception, and consequently look entirely female.

O.o



Edited by Beanhead (06/16/15 03:30 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Beanhead]
    #21815187 - 06/16/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
A simple XY / XX would suffice.




Some (genetically XY) males born with AIS have totally non-functional androgen receptors from the time of conception, and consequently look entirely female.




How someone looks isn't the issue. If they have one X and one Y, they are male.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21815230 - 06/16/15 03:46 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I wonder if the legal language that originally provided for sex segregated correctional facilities in the US mentions chromosomes


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #21815258 - 06/16/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

If it doesn't, it should.

Look it up and let us know.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGheda Linto
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Re: Rachel A. Dolezal is a disgusting human being [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #21815292 - 06/16/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

To say that transracial is as legitimate as transgendered is to say that there is a fundamental difference between races besides melanin or pigment which simply equates to psychical appearance. To acknowledge that there is a difference in race which goes beyond culture or appearance is to give creditability to every racist narrative from the Nazis to the KKK. This women is a civil rights activist, this women fights for equality, this women sees a fundamental difference between white people and black people significant enough to lie about her background and her family and has the audacity to say that SHE is the one that stands up for equality. She is a bad person period. There is a fundamental difference between the sexes, race is just skin.


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