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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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dreams impact on reality
#21805227 - 06/14/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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August Kekulé was attempting to understand the structure of the benzene ring, he had a dream of a snake eating its own tail, which resulted in his discovery of the benzene ring.
Rene Descartes while holding siege to Prague in a Hapsburg army had a dream that helped found modern science, as described by Terence mckenna: " I believe it was the 17th of August of that year, which was 1619, the beginning year of the Thirty Years’ War – they made camp at Ulm in Southern Germany. Just as an aside, Ulm was the birthplace of Albert Einstein. That night, Descartes had a dream. In the dream, a radiant angel appeared to him and said, “The conquest of nature is to be achieved through number and measure.” In that moment, Rene Descartes went from being a nobody to being the founder of modern science. Modern science was founded at the direction of an angel and the angel showed how it was. To this day, modern science has made all of its strides through the application of number, mathematical analysis, and measure"
Srinivasa Ramanujan said he was "shown" his complex mathematical formulas in dreams by Hindu gods.
The list goes on and on....
Im fascinated by psychedelic States and States of hallucination such as dreaming. I feel both methods can produce outstanding results to those who are paying attention, and can change the world in unbelievable ways.
There must be some property of mind that we are unaware of at this point, I feel information can be transferred through States of hallucination, but I'm still not sure exactly how this occors....
-E. Borodin
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LSDreamer
Materialist



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Those are cases of unconscious processing. There is a lot more going on in your brain than what is being communicated to your conscious mind all the time. If you were always aware of everything going on in your brain, the experience would be overwhelming. The You Are Not So Smart Podcast, which is an excellent psychology podcast that I highly recommend, has a great episode that discusses unconscious learning: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2014/12/22/3372/
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qwert3
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or u could check out skeptiko podcast hes got a bunch of stuff on dreamin, out o body exp, near death exp, etc... mostly non conventional opinions there, quite interesting methinks
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hTx
(:



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Look up Jeremy Narby, he spent a lot of time with shamans in the Amazon and has some very interesting things to say about psychedelics and DNA intelligence.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hobowizard
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21826846 - 06/19/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Try counting while in lucid dream or even in simple dream (paradox, because how can you count in simple dream if you're not in lucid dream - you can't control yourself). If you can count well, you're probably really trained in some way, because usually you can't even solve simple equations such as 18+7=x.
Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 06:05 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hobowizard]
#21826874 - 06/19/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Perhaps consciousness is the mere ability of awareness and dreams are full awareness of imagination, who knows as of yet.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21828663 - 06/19/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Perhaps consciousness is the mere ability of awareness and dreams are full awareness of imagination, who knows as of yet.
Prayers work too(no evidence, don't ask) and dreams do, on occasion, affect the waking world.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21829526 - 06/19/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
sudly said: Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Perhaps consciousness is the mere ability of awareness and dreams are full awareness of imagination, who knows as of yet.
Prayers work too(no evidence, don't ask) and dreams do, on occasion, affect the waking world.
"No evidence, don't ask", Did I ever tell you about my pet unicorn Krandal? He lives in my shoe and eats my socks. It's true because I believe it is..
Sorry lowbrow but belief doesn't change reality.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21830656 - 06/19/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: "No evidence, don't ask", Did I ever tell you about my pet unicorn Krandal? He lives in my shoe and eats my socks. It's true because I believe it is.. Sorry lowbrow but belief doesn't change reality.
Hey, I said no evidence, but I think I was more or less addressing this statement...
Quote:
sudly said: Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr.?
How about August Kekulé? Somebody else already mentioned him. http://www.worlddreambank.org/K/KEKULE.HTM
I must say you were rather rude and passive-aggressive in your response to me.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21830713 - 06/20/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You said prayer works, dreams can affected the waking world and said I shouldn't ask for evidence.
I tried to make it obvious that I think you're an idiot, of course I'll ask for evidence of such claims. Do you have any reason to believe in them other than faith?
My assumption is that you believe in a spirit realm too?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21830725 - 06/20/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21831129 - 06/20/15 02:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: You said prayer works
You said prayer doesn't work, but if you can make a blanket statement so can I. Its also not up to me to prove my claim, its up to you to prove yours because your claim was first.
Quote:
sudly said: You said prayer works, dreams can affected the waking world and said I shouldn't ask for evidence.
Sneaky. You worded it like I said don't ask for evidence of dreams affecting the waking world. That's downright dishonest. Here I'll go ahead and quote that again just for you..
Quote:
lowbrow said: Prayers work too(no evidence, don't ask) and dreams do, on occasion, affect the waking world.
After which I mentioned the examples
Quote:
lowbrow said:
Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr.?
How about August Kekulé? Somebody else already mentioned him. http://www.worlddreambank.org/K/KEKULE.HTM
Evidence supported. Still waiting on your retort other than...
Quote:
sudly said: I tried to make it obvious that I think you're an idiot,
And I think your an arrogant little prick asshole.
Quote:
sudly said: My assumption is that you believe in a spirit realm too?
Man, I can feel the venom in that statement through my screen.
Still waiting on your retort to my evidence.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21831445 - 06/20/15 06:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can't prove the rationally impossible and I don't have to because it's rationally impossible. I don't have to prove square circles exist and I don't have to prove that thought doesn't change tangeable reality. If you want to claim the impossible then the burden is on you to produce physical evidence supporting it.
I made a spelling mistake, affect* You said prayer works and that I shouldn't ask for evidence. Well I am.
As for your "evidence", Have you ever heard of happenstance? He got an idea from a dream, that doesn't mean dreams changes reality. It means he had a dream and got an idea.
I asked if you believe in a spirit realm because many people who claim the existence of God do. It was a simple question.
I called you an idiot, not an asshole.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21832269 - 06/20/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I can't prove the rationally impossible and I don't have to because it's rationally impossible. I don't have to prove square circles exist and I don't have to prove that thought doesn't change tangeable reality. If you want to claim the impossible then the burden is on you to produce physical evidence supporting it.
You made the initial claim, so the burden of proof is on your head. All I did was disagree with your initial statement. Good luck with that one too, by the way.
Quote:
sudly said: As for your "evidence", Have you ever heard of happenstance?
hap·pen·stance \ˈha-pən-ˌstan(t)s, ˈha-pəm-\ noun : something that happens by chance Full Definition :a circumstance especially that is due to chance
I'd say that your use of the word is misguided, it doesn't fit into the criteria of what we're discussing.
Quote:
sudly said:
He got an idea from a dream, that doesn't mean dreams changes reality. It means he had a dream and got an idea.
But that idea led to the Civil Rights Movement which did change reality.
In effect, a dream did change reality.
Quote:
sudly said:
I called you an idiot, not an asshole.
No you didn't. And I didn't call you an asshole either.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Hippocampus



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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21832928 - 06/20/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love it when theists try to turn the claim thing upside down: "You claimed there is no god first, so you have to prove it." uh no, we're starting from a position of no gods, and prayers being just things people say. If you want to claim there is anything else to it, then the burden of proof is on you sir.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Hippocampus]
#21833350 - 06/20/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, its on the person who made the initial claim.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Hippocampus



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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833410 - 06/20/15 06:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's not a claim. It's a default position. If I say rainbows don't come out of your ass instead of poop, that's not asking anyone to accept anything that isn't already accepted fact. I don't have to prove that rainbows don't come out of your ass. If you're now going to take the position that they do, then you still have to bring the evidence for it.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833526 - 06/20/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hippocampus said: It's not a claim. It's a default position. If I say rainbows don't come out of your ass instead of poop, that's not asking anyone to accept anything that isn't already accepted fact. I don't have to prove that rainbows don't come out of your ass. If you're now going to take the position that they do, then you still have to bring the evidence for it.
Quote:
lowbrow said: No, its on the person who made the initial claim.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833557 - 06/20/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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"And I think your an arrogant little prick asshole." Look man, if you're going to try and tell me you didn't call me an asshole after calling me an asshole, it's evident that you are dishonest and I'd rather not continue to waste my time responding to such behaviours.
"I think you're an idiot", is calling you an idiot and taking responsibility that it's only my view.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Sun King



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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21833660 - 06/20/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love watching two great minds debate.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833747 - 06/20/15 08:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: "And I think your an arrogant little prick asshole." Look man, if you're going to try and tell me you didn't call me an asshole after calling me an asshole, it's evident that you are dishonest and I'd rather not continue to waste my time responding to such behaviours.
"I think you're an idiot", is calling you an idiot and taking responsibility that it's only my view.
No. I said I THINK your an arrogant little prick asshole. I didn't say you are. I just shared my opinion based on your e-behavior.
Back to the topic at hand...
Quote:
lowbrow said:
But that idea led to the Civil Rights Movement which did change reality.
In effect, a dream did change reality.
Retort?
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833918 - 06/20/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Retort?
How retarded are you? The man impacted reality, not the dream, the dream merely gave him an idea to do so.
That does not show evidence that the dream itself changed reality, it only shows that a dream can be a catalyst for change. In saying that so can a drawing, a few words, a book or anything that gives anyone an idea. By your logic books can change reality too.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21834323 - 06/20/15 10:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: How retarded are you?
How close-minded are you? Ever heard of abstract thought? If your not capable of it then you'll never understand what I'm talking about.
Quote:
sudly said: The man impacted reality, not the dream, the dream merely gave him an idea to do so.
But the idea that impacted reality can still be traced back to the dream. The man was just as much a catalyst for the dream as the dream was for the man.
Quote:
sudly said: That does not show evidence that the dream itself changed reality, it only shows that a dream can be a catalyst for change.
Way to argue for my point of view. A catalyst for change in reality I assume. So your saying the dream did effect reality?
Quote:
sudly said:
In saying that so can a drawing, a few words, a book or anything that gives anyone an idea. By your logic books can change reality too.
That would be true too. The Communist Manifesto and The Silent Spring would be a couple of examples of this.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21834688 - 06/20/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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"The man was just as much a catalyst for the dream as the dream was for the man"?
I'm trying to understand what you're on about. Are you trying to make the point that thought alone can change tangible reality?
My point is that thought alone does NOT change reality, it is the resulting actions from thought that change reality.
Again, the books themselves don't change reality, it's the actions someone takes after reading them that has an effect.
I am capable of abstract thought but that doesn't mean reality is going to change because of it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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qwert3
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21847175 - 06/23/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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so u dont believe in a spirit world because youve never seen one, heard of one, felt one or smelled one ? or maybe u dont believe in spirits for one of these reasons ? maybe u just dont know everything caus u cant smell, hear, see or touch goodenouf? maybe. who knows? would they tell u? would it change anything?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: qwert3]
#21847250 - 06/23/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't believe in a spirit realm because as of yet no physical evidence suggesting it's existence has been produced by anyone or anything. Therefore there is no reason to believe in one other than faith.
I don't know everything... you don't either.
Would who tell me? If evidence in any form was produced that showed the existence of a spirit realm I would have no choice but to believe it and would accordingly do so. So far there is absolutely no reason to believe so.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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qwert3
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21847798 - 06/23/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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u claim to know that there is no evidence... how could you know that? u just wont accept the evidence put forward by others
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: qwert3]
#21847940 - 06/23/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Because the only thing claiming the existence of consciousness without matter is religion.
The only 'evidence' put forward for these claims are holy books such as the bible.
No sane, logical, reasonable, rational, objective, sensible, wise or intelligent person could justifiably claim that these books are admissible in any sense as evidence of consciousness existing without matter.
The bible is a nice piece of literature and is written well but the context within is not proof of anything other than how uneducated cultures were about the universe 2000 years ago.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21849331 - 06/24/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I don't believe in a spirit realm because as of yet no physical evidence suggesting it's existence has been produced by anyone or anything. Therefore there is no reason to believe in one other than faith.
I don't know everything... you don't either.
Would who tell me? If evidence in any form was produced that showed the existence of a spirit realm I would have no choice but to believe it and would accordingly do so. So far there is absolutely no reason to believe so.
Ah, your the type that confrms the "reality" of existance by stubbing his toes on rocks (this is a reference to Refutation of Bishop Berkely, but could just as easily be applied)
I don't mean to be rude but this may not be the best conversation for you to join in.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21849389 - 06/24/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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In the cases I'm speaking of the dream was the factor that initiated change, these people were provided with information that they should not have been able to obtain.
Srinivasa Ramanujan said in his dreams the Hindu God Shiva would show him scrolls with the mathematical formulas written on it, when he would wake up he would write down as much as he could....this was math of the highest calibur. , As far as Descartes, you would have to have known the history involving RUDOLPH II, Friedrich the 5th, and the alchemical kingdom that they were trying to establish in Prague. Once you realize what he was there to destroy (in the Hapsburg army) all of this gains another level. any way an angel gave Descartes the information needed for modern science to gain footing.
There is obviously means of transfer of information that is mediated by altered States.
...again sudly, this really is not the conversation for you, it requires means of thinking that are obviously outside of your comfort zone, besides you are a person has seems to have his mind set on these issues.
E. Borodin
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qwert3
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21849912 - 06/24/15 10:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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------Because the only thing claiming the existence of consciousness without matter is religion.
The only 'evidence' put forward for these claims are holy books such as the bible. -----
this is a lack of information, it`s false,
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MarkostheGnostic
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: August Kekulé was attempting to understand the structure of the benzene ring, he had a dream of a snake eating its own tail, which resulted in his discovery of the benzene ring.
Rene Descartes while holding siege to Prague in a Hapsburg army had a dream that helped found modern science, as described by Terence mckenna: " I believe it was the 17th of August of that year, which was 1619, the beginning year of the Thirty Years’ War – they made camp at Ulm in Southern Germany. Just as an aside, Ulm was the birthplace of Albert Einstein. That night, Descartes had a dream. In the dream, a radiant angel appeared to him and said, “The conquest of nature is to be achieved through number and measure.” In that moment, Rene Descartes went from being a nobody to being the founder of modern science. Modern science was founded at the direction of an angel and the angel showed how it was. To this day, modern science has made all of its strides through the application of number, mathematical analysis, and measure"
Srinivasa Ramanujan said he was "shown" his complex mathematical formulas in dreams by Hindu gods.
The list goes on and on....
Im fascinated by psychedelic States and States of hallucination such as dreaming. I feel both methods can produce outstanding results to those who are paying attention, and can change the world in unbelievable ways.
There must be some property of mind that we are unaware of at this point, I feel information can be transferred through States of hallucination, but I'm still not sure exactly how this occors....
-E. Borodin
Most of psyche is un-conscious to us, just as most of the electromagnetic spectrum is invisible to our eyes. Philip K. Dick is well known for his direct, unmediated-by-senses-or-reason apprehension of the hernia that almost killed his son. PKD was able to blurt out the exact diagnosis to emergency room physicians even though he had no medical training and could not have learned the cause without exploratory surgery. Clairvoyance, meaning 'seeing-at-a-distance' is the usual term for 'knowing' something immediately and without the intermediary means of sense and reason. Clairvoyance is more than intuition, as intuition usually does not involve complex thoughts as in PKD's experience. The mechanism of a Psi function like clairvoyance is open to speculation. Perhaps proximity to the physicians in the ER allowed a n aspect of PKD's psyche to draw on their knowledge. By way of analogy, yesterday I saw a kid's ground-shaking invention - an algae-based polymer which when injected into an arterial bleed which would be fatal in 30 seconds, clots the bleed in 15 seconds! It's not approved by the FDA so he's marketing it to veterinary medicine, but the military will no doubt get the FDA to OK this stuff. It works by drawing needed molecules into a matrix with forms an instant life-saving clot. Similarly, PKD's psyche may have been able to retrieve the correct morphemes, phonemes, and syntax from 'morphic field'of medical knowledge present in "Mind at large," like psychic wi-fi, to construct an intelligible medical diagnosis for the ER physicians to understand. 
"While listening to the Beatles' "Strawberry Fields Forever" one day, Phil heard the lyrics change into a prophetic warning: 'Your son has an undiagnosed right inguinal hernia. The hydrocele has burst, and it has descended into the scrotal sac. He requires immediate attention, or will soon die.' Phil rushed him to the hospital and found every word to be true. The doctor scheduled the operation for the same day. Once again, the healing power of Phil's vision comes to the fore. In a sense the boy was "reborn", which was to have great consequences for Phil's subsequent actions." - http://gnosis.org/pkd.biography.html
There is a long list of clairvoyant type events among historical figures. In Kekúle's experience, the Oroboric serpent is an archetypal image, repeated over the centuries and as such might serve as a gateway of Pure Ideas (in the Platonic sense) or in Morphic Fields as Sheldrake says.
"On Thursday, 19 July 1759 a great and well-documented fire broke out in Stockholm, Sweden. In the high and increasing wind it spread very fast, consuming about 300 houses and making 2000 people homeless.
When the fire broke out Swedenborg was at a dinner with friends in Gothenburg, about 400 km from Stockholm. He became agitated and told the party at six o'clock that there was a fire in Stockholm, that it had consumed his neighbor’s home and was threatening his own. Two hours later, he exclaimed with relief that the fire had stopped three doors from his home. In the excitement following his report, word even reached the ears of the provincial governor, who summoned Swedenborg that same evening and asked for a detailed recounting.
At that time, it took two to three days for news from Stockholm to reach Gothenburg by courier, so that is the shortest duration in which the news of the fire could reach Gothenburg. The first messenger from Stockholm with news of the fire was from the Board of Trade, who arrived Monday evening. The second messenger was a royal courier, who arrived on Tuesday. Both of these reports confirmed every statement to the precise hour that Swedenborg first expressed the information. The accounts are fully described in Bergquist, pp. 312–313 and in Chapter 31 of The Swedenborg Epic." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Swedenborg
PKD had an emotional attachment to his son of course, and Swedenborg's own house and neighbors resided in Stockholm, so the direction of these perceptions was guided by attachment, not just random. Assuredly, there were other emergencies everywhere else on the globe at the same moments.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: qwert3]
#21853599 - 06/25/15 02:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qwert3 said: ------Because the only thing claiming the existence of consciousness without matter is religion.
The only 'evidence' put forward for these claims are holy books such as the bible. -----
this is a lack of information, it`s false,
*The only physical 'evidence' put forward for these claims are holy books such as the bible. The rest is assumption and metaphysics, both of which are not evident, factual or testable.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (06/25/15 02:47 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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I don't conform to reality, I accept it for what it is because that is what it is. I prefer using senses to observe the detectable if that's what you mean by stubbing my toe on rocks.
Sure, dreams can influence thought, I agree.
It appears as though you are referring to metaphysics, something which I do not pertain to or follow. Our brains take in vast amounts of information and when we dream it processes through that information, sometimes when we awake and remember these dreams we can form ideas from it. That's the ability of consciousness, to think after observation.
I'm comfortable thinking about the ideas you've put forward such as angels giving information to people, I don't agree with it but that doesn't mean I won't put forward my opinions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21854002 - 06/25/15 07:28 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Science is great for what it does, which is describe 3 dimentional time and space and laws of the world we live in, but there ARE things that are out-side of what science can describe.
-E. Borodin
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Science is great for what it does, which is describe 3 dimentional time and space and laws of the world we live in, but there ARE things that are out-side of what science can describe.
-E. Borodin
Yeah, like imagination and fantasy.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Thank you markosthegnostic!
Great response!
As a chemistry student and a fan of Carl Jung, Kekúle's story has always fascinated me, it brings jungian archetypes, dreams, and chemistry al into a single event...
I have had many personal experiances involving bizzare synchronicity and profound change as a result, completley unexplainable in every way, then I see similar events echo through out human history.....
Its fascinating stuff....though I don't like the term clairvoyance it is exactly what I was refering to, I also avoid the term "psychic", but its only because people will automatically put you in the "screw-ball" file without ever researching the events your referencing....
I think with psychedelics we may break the walls down and enter the world of science, at least to some degree, if you want to understand out of body experiance and life after death in a scientific manor, use DMT as the center of your study, it induces out of body, mystical, contact, and death experiances, we can now to this on command! Science may have a chance to intergrate into the greater field of psychedelia, which is ancient.
Dreaming is another alter-state I'm interested in because everybody dreams, but psychedelics are the bridge....
-E. Borodin
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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"I have had many personal experiances involving bizzare synchronicity and profound change as a result, completley unexplainable in every way, then I see similar events echo through out human history"
Quite the oxymoron you have there, synchronicity is what explains your experiences.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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hTx
(:



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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21854913 - 06/25/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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..and how do you explain synchronicity?
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Cujllickduo



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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21854974 - 06/25/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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if you understand the devil and how it works you hold the key
but with great responsibility its hard to control the pain that youve seen
theres a rare few who know but if you do
i feel sorry for you as i know to.
If you know you know if you dont...
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Cujllickduo]
#21855496 - 06/25/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
JustAnotherFreak said: if you understand the devil and how it works you hold the key
How do you understand the devil and what key do you hold?
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21856236 - 06/25/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: ..and how do you explain synchronicity?
To create meaning from coincidence.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21859798 - 06/26/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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hTx said: ..and how do you explain synchronicity?
Not an explanation, but an apt description from Richard Wilhelm, whose studies among Chinese Taoists led to his translation of the I Ching as well as to a major contributing influence to C.G. Jung's Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle.
Why, this very day, some 3 hours ago, I woke to discover a mishap with my swimming pool. For the first time in 19 years I failed to seat the top of the filter housing properly, so when the pump went on, it sprung a leak causing several inches of water loss while I was still sleeping. Now this is THE driest June I have EVER seen in 32 years in Florida and I've had to add water every day because of evaporation, causing my water bill to go way up. I was pissed when I saw the water loss and put the hose in the pool with a prayer. "Please send me some free rainwater! Even an inch will help." Two minutes later I heard a clap of thunder (I have often had thunder in my I Ching readings btw). In fewer than 5 minutes, for the first time in maybe 3 months, we had a brief but significant downpour - .79 inches in a few minutes time! Believe me, that helped, and more importantly, this is exactly how Synchronicity operates and how answers to prayer (or meditation) manifest. Today's experience came in time for me to share it with you along with this classic description:
http://www.ralphmag.org/BN/why.html
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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You prayed for rain, by coincidence it occurred. You have an assumed causal link between praying and the rain occurring which is your synchronicity to create a meaning from coincidence.
People pray for everything all the time, millions of people pray for rain every single day all around thebworld, it also rains every single day all around the world, it just happened to be that on this day it rained where you were on a day that you were praying.
Say you prayed at 1:50pm and it rained at 2pm. Wether you prayed at 10am, 3pm, or the day before, it will still have rained at 2pm. It is nothing more than a coincidence that it rained as you prayed, it is nothing more than synchronicity.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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enjoi-more
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly] 1
#21861745 - 06/26/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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@sudly
It's apparent you stand behind quite a materialistic point of view. I find you have exaggerated comparisons between the power of consciousness and imagination (ie unicorns). To me this weakens your argument but that is besides the point. I have been though a period of thinking where I insisted on the material world and was overcome with urge to only credit what the scientific method could. After all its a very reasonable approach... However, do you ever feel there is more life than reason? Perhaps emotions and passion play a larger part than they are credited.
How about this thought. That reason is the camera to which the world is viewed. Everything is constructed under the same process. As materialism may view everything under the scientific method. Consider emotions and passions(experiences that are not proven) as the different lenses that the world is viewed with through the camera. With this there becomes much more ways to view the world.
I mean not to call you out individually. It just i found your posts to be rather close-minded especially for a psychedelic forum (I must admit I feel I would be more close-minded to what I cannot physically verify if it was not for psychedelics). Its silly to argue over such matters. Its a state you must experience, only then is it even partially credited. Throughout time wise men from the east have told of transcending "normal being/reason." Materialism seems like a very "normal being/reason" mode of thinking.
Spend some time on the topic mentioned beforehand and then let me know if you truly see no value in them because no physical proof backs up there thinking... or some may say lack of thinking
Edited by enjoi-more (06/26/15 10:03 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: enjoi-more]
#21861857 - 06/26/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If something cannot be proven to exist then I will not believe it because I do not conform to faith.
I don't believe there is any intrinsic reason to life. "The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." -Charles Darwin
If you look at what the universe is, it's a hostile, unforgiving expanse of deep cold darkness and danger. It makes me appreciate what I have because I know how lucky I am to be alive. Emotions and passions are bi-products of neural actions within the brain, as is consciousness.
Experiences that are not proven are opinions.
I simply don't believe in that which has no reason to be believed in. I think you may be too open minded if you are happy to hold onto faith. I have had what many would call 'spiritual experiences' with psychedelics but I am aware enough of my own emotions to realise that the thoughts I've had were created by me and the drugs I was on, not of supernatural cause.
I see the same value in claims of spiritualism as claims for big foot or leprechauns.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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hTx
(:



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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21862525 - 06/27/15 02:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sudly i find your denial of human experience interesting.
Synchronicity isn't giving meaning to a coincidence, it is a meaningful coincidence in its own right. At times, as with my experiences, an undeniable and often terrifyingly mind-blowing stacking of such "coincidence" that whats in "here" and whats out "there" become ultimately one. The boundaries between observer-observed dissolve, and one is left in, or perhaps awakens to, a sort of union with ones environment and the normal everyday chaos somehow aligns with ones thoughts and feelings. Even, interacting with them. Perfectly, in real-time. When events coincide intelligently, one begins to question if any of this is even real or what real even means.
When perception and abstraction expand to the point where language begins to hold dual meaning, relevant to ones perception and thought, and you wonder if it's been this way all along..
You will know you have experienced true synchronicity. Jung was very reserved i believe when he wrote about it. Robert Anton Wilson, however, hints at a much deeper reality behind the phenomena.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21862969 - 06/27/15 07:47 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said: ..and how do you explain synchronicity?
Look up Carl Jung.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: August Kekulé was attempting to understand the structure of the benzene ring, he had a dream of a snake eating its own tail, which resulted in his discovery of the benzene ring.
Rene Descartes while holding siege to Prague in a Hapsburg army had a dream that helped found modern science, as described by Terence mckenna: " I believe it was the 17th of August of that year, which was 1619, the beginning year of the Thirty Years’ War – they made camp at Ulm in Southern Germany. Just as an aside, Ulm was the birthplace of Albert Einstein. That night, Descartes had a dream. In the dream, a radiant angel appeared to him and said, “The conquest of nature is to be achieved through number and measure.” In that moment, Rene Descartes went from being a nobody to being the founder of modern science. Modern science was founded at the direction of an angel and the angel showed how it was. To this day, modern science has made all of its strides through the application of number, mathematical analysis, and measure"
Srinivasa Ramanujan said he was "shown" his complex mathematical formulas in dreams by Hindu gods.
The list goes on and on....
Im fascinated by psychedelic States and States of hallucination such as dreaming. I feel both methods can produce outstanding results to those who are paying attention, and can change the world in unbelievable ways.
There must be some property of mind that we are unaware of at this point, I feel information can be transferred through States of hallucination, but I'm still not sure exactly how this occors....
-E. Borodin
Maybe you're living in an automated simulation, why force the simulation to run faster by inventing stuff from your dreams? (receiving inventions)
Maybe there is an end to this program, and you just helped the program die faster
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21863046 - 06/27/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Science is great for what it does, which is describe 3 dimentional time and space and laws of the world we live in, but there ARE things that are out-side of what science can describe.
-E. Borodin
Yeah, like imagination and fantasy.
Again, your trying to confirm the reality of existence by stubbing your toes on rocks....
(You may want to look into what I'm referencing to here, ill make it easy: Refutation of Bishop Berkeley: After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."
....obviously your Johnson, striking your toes against rocks in an infintile attempt to confirm the reality of the existance which surrounds you....
Trust me, there are things that are VERY real that fall outside of science, science is not a meta-theory...
If you think that three dimentional Newtonian time and space and your immediate perception of it is all that actually exists, than there's no point discussing these things with you, your sphere of consciousness is limited to these most basic perceptions regarding existance....
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21863143 - 06/27/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sudly, I recomend you smoke 200mgs pure DMT in a single hit, while your in the depths of hyperspace, think about science, and how useful it is when your outside of 3 dimentional time and space....
-E. Borodin
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enjoi-more
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: enjoi-more]
#21863981 - 06/27/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I do respect your view sudly.
But I fully back up the last two posts by Coincidentiaoppositorum.
Its just a little unfortunate to hear of someone who refuses to even consider the possibility that there is more to life than we know and can explain. I think It has potential to dampen your life experience if you hold on to only what has concrete evidence.
I often read in science of an idea so far ahead of its time that the people pay no mind to it. Perhaps how Darwin and his friend submitted an essay years before he published Origins. His essay was paid no mind, but the book changed the game.
You seem like the type of person who would hear a new crazy idea and discredit it. However perhaps 100 years later that idea is considered commonly understood.
We have come a long way as humans, but we have a much longer way to go. Be open to a infinite range of possibilities.
"My thesis, similarly, is that the very conception of Reality and "the world" is the product of an "objective" viewpoint, one that has its obvious benefits but one that must not be allowed to encompass the whole of human experience. If it is given that all-inclusive domain, then our passions will indeed look like distortions, and our values, all our values- will appear to be so many pretentious vanities tacked on the the indifferent and passive structures of reality" The Passions by Robert C. Solomon
Best of luck
Edited by enjoi-more (06/27/15 12:10 PM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: enjoi-more]
#21864121 - 06/27/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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what if reality could not be understood by rational mind?
i.e. if that mind was limited in structure
How would we then ever know the universe? We'd think we know..
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Sudly, I recomend you smoke 200mgs pure DMT in a single hit, while your in the depths of hyperspace, think about science, and how useful it is when your outside of 3 dimentional time and space....
-E. Borodin
 "Wow so this was what they were talking about"
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21866455 - 06/27/15 09:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Reply to hTx: I don’t deny that humans have experiences, I deny that the experiences alone are evidence of supernatural causation. It is the human that determines whether or not a coincidence is meaningful by applying a personal meaning to a coincidence. A coincidence does not have intrinsic meaning behind it. A meaning is given to a coincidence by the individual that perceives it. A.k.a. people create a meaning for a coincidence. I think you’re talking about ego dissolution by describing the boundary between observer-observed being dissolved. This when subjectivity is inhibited in the mind usually via meditation or drug use. In this state a user is detached from their ego and has instinctual behaviours and thoughts. It often can feel like a spiritual experiences but is nothing more than disconnection from subjectivity. The ‘awakened’ feeling is objectivity.
Reply to Coincidentiaoppositorum: The universe is not as consistent or uniform as we have believed it so be for some time now. Fields such as quantum mechanics have turned many ideas around again, these such ideas however do not fall outside of science, a great deal about quantum mechanics and the truth behind how reality behaves has been uncovered, there is obviously still more to learn, my point is that placing the idea of spiritualism, mysticism, magic or god in place of what we do not yet know is a hypothesis. A hypothesis does not yet have sufficient evidence to back up its claims and therefore cannot be called a scientific theory. I do not believe in such claims because they are as of yet not scientific theories that have been backed up by testable or observable evidence. It’s philosophically nice to discuss the idea of fourth dimensions and god but it is only an hypothesis and should not be taken as though it were a scientific theory because the ideas have not yet qualified to do so. Hit me up with some DMT and I’ll give you a full trip report.
Reply to enjoi-more: I consider the possibility for everything, a possibility however is not evidence that something does exists. My aptitude is such that pure rational explanation satisfies me and helps achieve an adequate sense of tranquillity. Often in science an idea comes along that is ahead of its time. This is because it takes a lot of time to find the evidence necessary to backup any claim made. A crux of science is that it does NOT run on faith alone. It is imperitive to science that any claim must be backed up by evidence if it is to be accepted. People of Darwin’s time thought the idea of evolution was crazy because they believed in creationist beginnings and evolution challenged what they believed. Over time though, evidence in support of evolution through observations and generational tests backed up the claims of evolution which is why it’s now classified as a theory. Until congruent, observable and repeatable evidence is produced for a hypothesis it will remain a hypothesis. This is why I do not accept the claims of fourth dimensional beings as it is still a hypothesis. If an idea does not hold up to testing and has no observable evidence I would refute it until the evidence is produced. We have come a long way as humans, beginning from eukaryotic bacterial life 3.5 billion years ago. I am open to all possibilities but again that doesn’t mean all possibilities are real. We have a subjective viewpoints too, which is why objective viewpoints do not encompass the whole of the human experience.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21867415 - 06/28/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said:
Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Sudly, I recomend you smoke 200mgs pure DMT in a single hit, while your in the depths of hyperspace, think about science, and how useful it is when your outside of 3 dimentional time and space....
-E. Borodin
 "Wow so this was what they were talking about"
Nah, but this is a sure fire way to give a skepitical person the Empirical evidence they seek...
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21867499 - 06/28/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sudly, if I could do so without going to jail I would gladly give you 200mgs DMT.
-E. Borodin
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Sudly, if I could do so without going to jail I would gladly give you 200mgs DMT.
-E. Borodin
You can, it's called lucid dreaming
www.ld4all.nl www.dreamviews.com
the mind can do it naturally without a drug
you relax so much that you only got like 1 brainwave and no you got complete control of your brain
I'd say lucid dreams are better than DMT/any psychedelic, because they give you control
you can create with your mind and fly
shamanic journeying is also interesting
there are severe risks to any trance state btw, it is not to be overused each can be equally dangerous, also lucid dreams, as a bad trip
but lucid dreams/out of body experiences are the best trip I've ever tried, better than a high dose LSD or shrooms, better than sex too
the only difference is that the learning process is a bit different there, it is harder to learn in it, but it can be very fun
but what is there to learn, when you see your natural state, true reality directly? - nothing
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21868439 - 06/28/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You have an assumed causal link between praying and the rain occurring which is your synchronicity to create a meaning from coincidence.
You do not understand what Synchronicity means. The very choice of words "causal link" proves that you have not grasped Jung's notion of Synchronicty as "an acausal connecting principle." It is the coincidence of inner psychic and outer physical (or psychic) events. I have described one such phenomenon. They occur all the time if one is sufficiently mindful of them. I have been typing on numerous occasions and while I am typing a particular word which only takes a second or two, the TV, radio, or my wife will utter that very word while I am typing it. "Telephone telepathy" is Rupert Sheldrake's expression for thinking of someone and the phone rings, and it is that person. I've experienced this countless times since childhood. I was once in my parents' backyard in NJ talking trash about a cousin and her husband who lived in Ohio. At that moment, the two of them suddenly walked into the back yard. We were not close or in any communication beforehand. I have hundreds of documented examples of Synchronicity. You are attempting to describe an operating principle that you do not understand by simplistic cause-effect mechanisms. If you have not experienced Synchronicity it is because you are unable to [bracket] out cause-effect relationships. You have assuredly not experienced precognition, telepathy, or psychokinesis (a disturbed state of mind effecting electronics, for example). Indeed, you are undoubtedly poo-pooing my suggestion that I have experienced these things because your model of reality doesn't allow for them. But I have, and I am far from alone in these things. On 2 of 6 occasions there was a witness to telepathy - the horrified friends whose thoughts I 'heard' psychically (not physically) and repeated back to them. "Believe it, or not!"
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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They are so commonplace for me anymore that I miss the time when they were novel and exciting. There are still some juicy ones though, now and then.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21869848 - 06/28/15 06:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I already use melatonin for lucid dreams
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Hehehe 'documented' :,)
I too have experienced synchronicity numerous times throughout my life, the only difference between us is that I don't create a meaning for the coincidences I experience.
If I thought of someone and they called me soon after, I know it's nothing more than a coincidence and that it doesn't mean I have telepathy. To assume I have telepathy because of a coincidence would be an egregious assumption. Coincidence happen all the time, just because they are unlikely does not mean they hold meaning when they occur.
overall a coincidence like a friend your thinking of calling you may seem unlikely but things like that are actually incredibly common. I thought of a friend this morning and they texted me, theres nothing incredible about that.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21870458 - 06/28/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We clearly do not live in the same dimensions of mind, or you simply can't see the forest for the trees. It is not a matter of creating meaning, it is experiencing the explicitly meaningful connections that simultaneity highlights out of the stream of consciousness. Sometimes, the layers of coincidence are multiple and utterly mind-blowing. Your attempt to reduce Synchronicity to mere banality is your own sad shortcoming. I hope you are shown otherwise in the near future because I am suggesting the dimension of the miraculous, without which life remains meaningless and thence pointless. And for those suffering such existential travail, meaninglessness portends joylessness and its tragic corollaries.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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MarkostheGnostic
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: They are so commonplace for me anymore that I miss the time when they were novel and exciting. There are still some juicy ones though, now and then. 
I could agree with you wholeheartedly except that while the thrill is often missing, it's nutritional value to my soul is still very much present and accounted for. Synchronicities have always been my divine manna, and my value for them has in the past put me at loggerheads with my analysts and other Jungians in that I valued them more than my dreams. I pity those who can neither grasp the events when they occur, or dismiss them as meaningLESS coincidences attributed to be mere statistical probability. This was the Merovingian's plight in The Matrix Reloaded: "You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth: Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect." This is as relative a truth as Newton's laws, relativized by Einstein's principles. Effective and efficient within its own sphere, cause-effect is linear. The transcendental possibilities of such a thing as 'Backward Causation' or Precognition remains incomprehensible to Merovingian in-the-box awareness. 'Acausal' relationships are equally opaque to reductionist thinking.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Don't get me started on causality. Anyway, I'm totally sympathetic to your sentiments. It just saddens me how the mundane (for lack of a better word) is all most people ever come to know.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Sometimes coincidences are mind blowing, sometimes they're not.
"I am suggesting the dimension of the miraculous, without which life remains meaningless and thence pointless."
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but are you trying to say that life without the intervention of miracles is meaningless? Because I have a joyful, fulfilling and personally meaningful life of my own without any influence or belief in the 'miraculous dimension'.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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"I pity those who can neither grasp the events when they occur, or dismiss them as meaningLESS coincidences attributed to be mere statistical probability."
I don't know why you'd pity someone for a different perspective. I often recognise synchronicity when it occurs and am internally humbled by the experience. Just because I realise the experience is attributed to a statistical probability doesn't mean I am at a loss.
With or without synchronicity I am at peace because I do not take my life for granted and am grateful for being lucky enough to have an chance to live on this planet.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Loc: South Florida
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21871790 - 06/29/15 02:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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With or without synchronicity I am at peace because I do not take my life for granted and am grateful for being lucky enough to have an chance to live on this planet.
I respect this completely. I pity the absence of the cognitive-affective union of AWE!
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Lessismore, howfamiliar are you with dimethyltryptamine?
All the things you speak of are great, but when it comes to a skeptic asking "what can you show me?" Your going to need a little more that lucid dreaming or meditation techniques....
I practice meditation, lucid dreaming, holotropic breath work, I work with binaural beats and isochronic tones, ive experimented with mindmachines and dreamachines, and ive practiced most forms of non-entheogenic shamanism....these are all great forms of inner-space exploration, yet none of them can compare to exploration with entheogens. Entheogens can give you access to realms of mind impossible to enter under ordinary conditions. The brain takes in something like 14 billion signals per second, now, all these signals (except smell) first enter the thalamus, the thalamus then filters out the majority of the incoming signals and sends the most important signals to the cortex, its in these cortex regions in which our emotional and intellectual processing of the signals takes place. This lower informational brain (thalamus) and higher processing brain (cortex regions) are connected by 5ht2a + 5ht2c receptors. So when you ingest DMT, psilocin, mescaline or LSD (though LSD is an agonist of many more receptor sites) your agonism of the 5ht2a and 5ht2c receptors causes the thalamus to shut down its filtering, so you go from getting a very small slice of filtered reality, to getting it ALL.....ive never experianced a natural state that could compare to high dose DMT or high dose psilocin.
Mircea Eliade claimed that shamanism using entheogenic plants was decadent, but as Richard Evans schultes and Gordon wasson would prove, the exact opposite was the case, that forms of shamanism in which entheogenic plants were not employed is in a state of decay, and that starving yourself, or stranding yourself in nature, or any of the other ordeals that non-entheogenic shamans use are desperate attempts to recover access to entheogenic States once employed by plants.
To ask me to practice inner-space exploration without entheogenic compounds would be like asking an astronaut to go to the moon without a space-ship.
The fact that if you take serotonin and remove the hydroxy group from position 5 and add 2 methyl groups to the amine nitrogen you have n,n-dimethyltryptamine, which is also an endogenous neurotransmitter should scream out "something signifigant is here!" now, lets take serotonin again, which is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, lets move the hydroxy group to position 4 and add to methyl groups to the amine nitrogen, and we have psilocin. now, lets use another key neurotransmitter, dopeamine, which is 3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine, if we add a methyl group to positions 3 and 4, and then add a methoxy group to position 5 we have mescaline, which is 3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine.....these are exogenous neurotransmitters!
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with other forms of inner space exploration, I'm just saying these other forms don't have the power that psychedelics do...like mckenna said: nobody ever went into an Ashram with their knees knocking in fear over the tremendous dimension they knew they were about to enter through meditation”
At least for me, NOTHING can even come close to the psychedelic experiance....
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21872405 - 06/29/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: "I pity those who can neither grasp the events when they occur, or dismiss them as meaningLESS coincidences attributed to be mere statistical probability."
I don't know why you'd pity someone for a different perspective. I often recognise synchronicity when it occurs and am internally humbled by the experience. Just because I realise the experience is attributed to a statistical probability doesn't mean I am at a loss.
With or without synchronicity I am at peace because I do not take my life for granted and am grateful for being lucky enough to have an chance to live on this planet.
I don't think he pittys you for having a different perspective, its all the astonishing things that your missing in life....
-E. Borodin
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21874104 - 06/29/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Sometimes coincidences are mind blowing, sometimes they're not.
"I am suggesting the dimension of the miraculous, without which life remains meaningless and thence pointless."
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but are you trying to say that life without the intervention of miracles is meaningless? Because I have a joyful, fulfilling and personally meaningful life of my own without any influence or belief in the 'miraculous dimension'.
I am not happy unless the Laws of Physics are routinely broken in my favor.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Lessismore, howfamiliar are you with dimethyltryptamine?
All the things you speak of are great, but when it comes to a skeptic asking "what can you show me?" Your going to need a little more that lucid dreaming or meditation techniques....
I practice meditation, lucid dreaming, holotropic breath work, I work with binaural beats and isochronic tones, ive experimented with mindmachines and dreamachines, and ive practiced most forms of non-entheogenic shamanism....these are all great forms of inner-space exploration, yet none of them can compare to exploration with entheogens. Entheogens can give you access to realms of mind impossible to enter under ordinary conditions. The brain takes in something like 14 billion signals per second, now, all these signals (except smell) first enter the thalamus, the thalamus then filters out the majority of the incoming signals and sends the most important signals to the cortex, its in these cortex regions in which our emotional and intellectual processing of the signals takes place. This lower informational brain (thalamus) and higher processing brain (cortex regions) are connected by 5ht2a + 5ht2c receptors. So when you ingest DMT, psilocin, mescaline or LSD (though LSD is an agonist of many more receptor sites) your agonism of the 5ht2a and 5ht2c receptors causes the thalamus to shut down its filtering, so you go from getting a very small slice of filtered reality, to getting it ALL.....ive never experianced a natural state that could compare to high dose DMT or high dose psilocin.
Mircea Eliade claimed that shamanism using entheogenic plants was decadent, but as Richard Evans schultes and Gordon wasson would prove, the exact opposite was the case, that forms of shamanism in which entheogenic plants were not employed is in a state of decay, and that starving yourself, or stranding yourself in nature, or any of the other ordeals that non-entheogenic shamans use are desperate attempts to recover access to entheogenic States once employed by plants.
To ask me to practice inner-space exploration without entheogenic compounds would be like asking an astronaut to go to the moon without a space-ship.
The fact that if you take serotonin and remove the hydroxy group from position 5 and add 2 methyl groups to the amine nitrogen you have n,n-dimethyltryptamine, which is also an endogenous neurotransmitter should scream out "something signifigant is here!" now, lets take serotonin again, which is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, lets move the hydroxy group to position 4 and add to methyl groups to the amine nitrogen, and we have psilocin. now, lets use another key neurotransmitter, dopeamine, which is 3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine, if we add a methyl group to positions 3 and 4, and then add a methoxy group to position 5 we have mescaline, which is 3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine.....these are exogenous neurotransmitters!
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with other forms of inner space exploration, I'm just saying these other forms don't have the power that psychedelics do...like mckenna said: nobody ever went into an Ashram with their knees knocking in fear over the tremendous dimension they knew they were about to enter through meditation”
At least for me, NOTHING can even come close to the psychedelic experiance....
-E. Borodin
Watch out what you say, you have been poisoned by the wanting to 'see fancy stuff' in your mind That is not always a good thing
Meditation can take you equally far, often further, without the downsides
Lucid dreaming can take you further too without the downsides, just because you haven't experienced it yet doesn't mean it is not there
You are artificially raising your vibration with psychedelics it seems, and with that there are some severe precautions that must be met
If you are into shamanism you must know this, it is not without its dangers, you can lose your soul if you do it wrongly - also in lucid dreams, a fractured soul/partial soul loss
If you lose your soul you don't even know, you live as normal, you just don't feel yourself for years
Psychedelics are one of the least safe methods of exploring your inner space, weed is not without risks either (it can also be psychedelic for some, it gets like that for me)
I like lucid dreaming, it feels much more real and I get further with that than tripping, usually less revealing though at a glance, but not afterwards It changes you it seems, brings me energy, optimism, faith in the universe, energy to do things in the world, it changes my actions and thoughts afterwards
That is what I want from a trip, I dont want to trip just to see fancy things, I look what happens after the trip
And with psychedelics and weed that is not always positive, sometimes it is, but not as often as lucid dreaming or meditation
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21876726 - 06/30/15 06:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I respectfully disargree lessismore,
I think ordeal shamanism is dangerous, non-enthoegenic shamanism uses ordeal poisons, or fasting and starvation, or stranding yourself in nature, or self-flagelation, or sweat-lodges and so on....your risking your life in attempt to reach an entheogenic state...
Entheogenic plants are our symbiotes, the fact that all your higher neurotransmitters are variations of these compounds shows their affinity for a higher human brain....look at the mained wolf and the loberia tree, the maimed wolf has parasites in its stomach, the Loberia tree contains alkaloids that kill these parasites, in turn, the trees seeds will not germinate unless they have passed through a mamals digestive system....now you can seperate the symbiotes, and they don't die, they both just must live in extreme discomfort....now look at humans, why are people so miserable? Why do people seem to have this itch they cant scratch? Its because we have been seperated from our entheogenic symbiotes.
Psychedelics are the safest method to reach these States. NOBODY has ever died from mescaline, DMT, psilocin/psilocybin, LSD, or cannabis, these compounds do NOT cause damage to any organ including the brain: As senior LSD researcher Dr. David Nichols, Distinguished Chair of Pharmacology at Purdue University and head of one of the world's top LSD research labs, stated in his 2004 review article on hallucinogens, "There is no evidence that any of the hallucinogens, even the very powerful semisynthetic LSD, causes damage to any human body organ. [...] Hallucinogens do not cause life-threatening changes in cardiovascular, renal, or hepatic function because they have little or no affinity for the biological receptors and targets that mediate vital vegetative functions. (-erowid) You are safer using a classic psychedelic than you are doing breath work, ordeal, or any other forms of non-entheogemic shamanism.
Even in Buddhism, in Tibet the bon-po shamans (who used marijuana and other entheogens) pre-dated the Buddhists, so when Buddhism took hold they eleminated bon, but they incorporated all its lessons, which is why Tibetan Buddhism and the psychedelic experiance seem so similar....
If your going to use meditation,you must master it over a life-time for it to be able to do what its practitioners claim it can, with entheogens anybody cant instantly become siddartha under the bohdi tree.
As mckenna said (and he said it best)
nobody ever went into an Ashram with their knees knocking in fear over the tremendous dimension they knew they were about to enter through meditation”
Ive been practicing entheogenic shamanism for around 10 years, I'm convinced its the only way for me, but like the Buddha said "1000 people 1000 paths"
-E. Borodin
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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The only problem is when drugs make us think we can only get there with a drug, then we're trapped
Then they often makes us think we are better than non-drug users, because we know the whole universe, and man is so illusioned (contempt for mankind)
They may even make us think we are god, or better than god, that we are gods and mankind is a disease (contempt for mankind again)
It's mostly just ego distortion, and that is not a good thing
How can we practice knowing ourselves without out ego taking over, and still live with the heart?
That must be easier to some extent without being away from this reality 12+ hours (LSD), without illusioned thoughts that these molecules usually bring us (they distort our perception)
The way is in the heart, not in the brain
Try asking yourself, who am I? what makes me me ? what do you contribute with to the world that makes you you? have you changed since you were born?
I always look at the way these molecules change me, and if I like the changes afterwards, I do the same with meditation
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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This has nothing to do with "wanting to see fancy stuff", and my experiances are not for recreation.
This is why I asked how familiar you were with DMT, there's really nothing pleasent about a peak DMT experiance.
People who think psychedelic exploration is hedonistic or escapist are out of their minds! As far as spiritual exploration goes, psychedelics are the more difficult path, if you reach a state in meditation where you become uncomfortable all you have to do is open your eyes, with psychedelics your forced to deal with whatever it is. There's nothing "easy" or "fun" about psychedelic shamanism.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Damn it, we posted at damn near the same time, hold up let Me read and respond to your last post....
-E. Borodin
Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (06/30/15 07:32 AM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21876903 - 06/30/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I once in a while use shamanic journeying, when that side calls, drum journeys
With that there is no downside, except there are some risks too, but you are usually much more back to reality afterwards, than if you take LSD i.e.
LSD may have months effects on your mind
Lucid dreaming I use binaural beats and dream journal for sometimes too, works really great, and I like the trip better than LSD, even though I usually liked LSD too
You say shamanic journeying is not possible without poison, but I disagree, I don't use anything, I don't even fast when I do it I lay down with headphones and drum beats
Fasting is a virtue, but you make it dangerous, it is not dangerous to fast for up to a week or so I love fasting all my life, it gets you really close to your soul , especially compared to taking drugs everyday (that's the opposite of fasting in my experience)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21876965 - 06/30/15 08:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lessismore said: The only problem is when drugs make us think we can only get there with a drug, then we're trapped
Then they often makes us think we are better than non-drug users, because we know the whole universe, and man is so illusioned (contempt for mankind)
They may even make us think we are god, or better than god, that we are gods and mankind is a disease (contempt for mankind again)
It's mostly just ego distortion, and that is not a good thing
How can we practice knowing ourselves without out ego taking over, and still live with the heart?
That must be easier to some extent without being away from this reality 12+ hours (LSD), without illusioned thoughts that these molecules usually bring us (they distort our perception)
The way is in the heart, not in the brain
Try asking yourself, who am I? what makes me me ? what do you contribute with to the world that makes you you? have you changed since you were born?
I always look at the way these molecules change me, and if I like the changes afterwards, I do the same with meditation
I completley argree with a good deal of what you are saying, except for your stance on entheogens....
I'm anti-drug, but in my mind drugs cause destructive unexamined compulsions, drugs cloud the mind and distort reality, and only provide one with a false veiw of the situation at hand....
Entheogens however are NOT drugs, these are exogenous neurotransmitters provided by our plant symbiotes, they don't cloud consciousness, they don't distort reality, they are not addictive or dangerous. The body/brain is constantly bombarded with signals, all of which (except smell) go to the thalamus to be filtered and then sent to the cortex regions for higher processing, the cortex regions and the thalamus are connected by 5ht2a and 5ht2c receptors, so by careful activation of these receptors the filtering mechanisms of the brain are "shut-down" so instead of getting a small slice of reality, your getting it all, entheogens give you a truer picture of the real world, and they do so in a highly advanced neuro-chemical process....
DMT is my compound of choice for these arguments, simply because in one 15 minute session, a person can be entirley transformed, its like being struck with noetic lightening. Now, DMT is endogenous, so when monks reach these States "naturally" they are likley just triggering an endogenous flush of dimethyltryptamine. The fact that these plants are going so far out of their way to produce these compounds (these compounds are NOT tertiary or waste products either) should tell you something....what use does a plant have for a mamillian neurotransmitter? to ignore and not take advantage of our plant symbiotes is a crime, these plants produce these neurotransmitters for us, to keep us healthy, happy, and connected to the vast array of dimentions of conscious existance that are available to us.
In tribal cultures before you can be considered an adult you must complete a right of passage involving ingestion of an entheogen. This is a bennificial practice, most people when first given DMT will say things like "I didn't know minds could do that" an entire universe is opened up to them that they never even suspected exists, they in turn know more about reality than those who have not ingested the DMT...the majority of modern people neotenized because of their seperation from entheogens, they cant be considered fully mature human beings. In the west we have been seperated from entheogenic rites since eleusis, and the state of our society reflects this.....
Humans are limited by the parameters of their own subjective psychology, this is why they need to go to a shrink to be told something that should be obvious, we cant analyze our self's as is, which is why entheogens are essential.
Try asking yourself "who and what am I?" "What makes me me?" Etc...under the influance of an entheogen.
I never said entheogens were the only way, I said they were the safest, most effective, and most benificial way....I also acknowledged that the same path is not appropriate for every traveler, like the Buddha said 1000 people 1000 paths.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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How familiar are you with DMT?
-E. Borodin
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: How familiar are you with DMT?
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Sun King]
#21877442 - 06/30/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm on a tablet, it will not connect me to whatever video you posted, however if you could post the actual url or tell me the title of the video so I could go to youtube on find it independently, it would be very much appreciated.
-E. Borodin
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHwE71WVhQg
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Sun King]
#21881709 - 07/01/15 05:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you, sorry for any invconvience, damned traveling lifestyle limits me to mobile devices...
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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I was asking how personally familiar this particular person was, not the entire thread.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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It had to do with matters regarding spiritual veiws and how DMT can alter them radically, had this person tried DMT and failed, it would be no use for me to go into detail about its potential, had this person never tried DMT, I could have explained everything its capable of doing for the inner space explorer.
Had this lucid dreamer not tried DMT, I couldn't ask my follow up question...which involvolves lucid dreaming about smoking DMT
.. And one of the things that I learned about DMT, was that, if you ever had it, even just once, then you can have a dream. And in this dream somebody will pull out a little glass pipe, and then it will happen. It will happen just like the real thing. Because theres a button somewhere inside each and every one of us that gives you a look into the other side. And that's the button that resets the compass that tells you where you want to sail. Good luck!
I have had DMT dreams, but have never been able to lucid dream, I wanted to know if lucid dreamers who had smoked DMT can replicate the experiance during a lucid dream....endogenous DMT means scientifically this IS possible (though even in the DMT community the idea recieves criticism)
-E. Borodin
Edited by Coincidentiaoppositorum (07/01/15 05:56 AM)
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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....I though it would have been obvious that I was asking lessismore specifically.
-E. Borodin
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Does it matter if I know DMT, or ever tried DMT?
Shouldn't I be able to understand my dreams without ever taking DMT?
You can lucid dream all your life without ever taking dmt, have out of body experiences every night and then come back into your body in the morning
Without lucid dreams I might be a much different person, not sure to what difference though, but I've always been disturbed my whole life in my dreams by various creatures / many nightmares / and many out of body experiences - flying around on the roof tops of where I lived in all places I lived
It's pleasant 50% of the time, and 50% of the time you wake up in sweat gasping for air almost , very unpleasant
Luckily you can learn to accept your fear fully, if you chose to learn from your dreams, then you get better both at dreaming and a bit better in this reality too
Dreams often show your conscious state in this reality
If you are very conscious here, you are very conscious in your dreams usually (then you got LDs every night or so)
Lots of fear here, lots of fear in your dreams
They're often linked it seems, dreams are often the psyche's way to heal itself it looks like, make you look at your fear in new ways
The mind can do it all natural, so taking a chemical to get there I would prefer not to do too often, and DMT is so short lasting, 5mins I would rather have a lucid dream that lasts i.e. 3 hours but feels like a full day
Your dreams say a lot about your awareness to some extent it seems , at least with people I know, many got lucid dreams/very vivid dreams/even see dead people in their dreams etc.
You seem a bit focused on DMT like it is the best thing in the world and all, it's a bit too much for me, I don't really want to prove anything I just want to have interesting dreams, and that is possible without DMT, many ways to get there
- shamanic journeying with drums - lucid dreams - out of body experiences (even more aware in lucid dreams)
There are no limits in ones dreams, you can teleport, fly, go visit anyone you know or people who have passed away too, you can create stuff in front of you with your mind, it feels more real than this reality
That's why I like it, but as with anything there's gotta be a balance, we cannot seek into our dream space like that before we feel fully content in this reality
Else it can actually damage us, damaging self introspection, you view a portion of your psyche you were not ready for, and now that damages your mind permanently - can be severe
I try to take big precautions there since I once had a very bad sleep paralysis, I know how bad it can be if you don't get fully back from your inner space, you don't even know People around you may know, you don't know it yourself, you just lose your soul
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21882226 - 07/01/15 09:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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www.ld4all.nl www.dreamviews.com
I've been using these sites/found them again once in a while the past 10-15 years, my bro is also into lucid dreaming
Why smoke DMT when lucid dreaming is better than sex and more rewarding too?
I believe those that have lucid dreams are ment to, their awareness is ready for it from a past life or such
But you can certainly improve it, get better at it, I went from 0-5 a year to 5 a month when practicing WILD+dreamjournal+binaural beats
I bet lucid dreamers would have a few things in common, just like trippers often have a few things in common - they have opened their mind from a past life it seems, and something else I can't just quite put words to
It's no coincidence that people lucid dream, and some don't. It is certain people who chose to lucid dream usually it seems, at least those I've met, often people interested in their mind
Then the good question is also, why do people trip?, I bet many have tripped because they felt something lacking in themselves, searching for something unconsciously
To those that seek, the tool to open their mind is there
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enjoi-more
Stranger

Registered: 10/31/13
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21884126 - 07/01/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Now about this lucid dreaming stuff... I haven't really experienced it, but I know the dreams I do have are often random nonsense which I can not depict a meaning behind or even try to due to lack of memory or point.
For those who lucid dream and claim its potential, do you ever remember your dreams that aren't lucid and am able to find meaning in them? Or that higher level of conciseness?
I guess my point it some of you seem to down view some of the potential effects entheogens can have because of big numbers of improper use. They can cause delusions and other nonsense BUT as my friend Coincidentiaoppositorum points out and I am sure many others on this site would back up the HUGE potential for positive effects if done PROPERLY. Coincidentiaoppositorum seems to advocate them so strongly because he uses them properly to reach there full potential. JUST as some of you guys have done with dreaming!
I feel that maybe dreams have a lot in common with improper entheogen use (aimless, random, distorted, etc.). Just as maybe lucid dreaming can have a lot in common with proper shamanic entheogen use (Powerful spiritual growth, refined meaning to life, etc.)
But hey, I haven't lucid dreamed before so this is just my interpretation from yalls posts.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: enjoi-more]
#21884197 - 07/01/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not everyone is a shaman, not everyone is born responsible (you speak about shamanic/sacred space use)
It takes a lot of responsibility to use a drug wisely. It takes a lot of responsibility to spiritually recommend drugs to people (you must be a teacher of truth and be grounded to do that)
Not everyone is a teacher
How can we know who is a teacher online? - can we trust random advice from strangers on which drugs are good/bad for us, when they don't even know us personally?
I got both normal dreams and lucid dreams, but mostly lucid dreams The only times I get normal dreams really is when I lower my frequency it seems, stress,pills,drugs,alcohol
Any pill will give me weird random dreams
Lucid dreams are not random, I wake up where I went to bed - or think I'm awake Then strange stuff happens, people break into my house while I'm awake, and I run into my garden and fly away over high tree tops Or I face the intruders rarely (my fear)
My fear can take any form, black shadow beings coming down on me, demons chasing me in the air, black insects coming down through portals in the ceiling, black ravens, dogs with sharp teeth, ufos, people who want to shoot me (cops breaking into my house and shooting me)
Anything may happen, I've gotten shot at least a dozen times in my dreams I think, it actually hurts a lot
And then you wake up when you die - or realize you're dreaming, then you're free to fly
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21884253 - 07/01/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I can much rather recommend: crystals meditation in nature cycling long prayer service to others
Crystals can raise our frequency too, if you believe in it
You are your actions, so with your actions you decide your frequency. Good actions towards others leads to a high frequency. No service to others and you got a low frequency.
You could say he/she who does nothing for others has forgotten his/hers god
The way is in the heart, you cannot magically take a chemical to gain truth
Truth comes only to those that are ready, and it is usually a lifelong journey for learning truth, you learn a bit at a time, always striving to improve yourself
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21888614 - 07/02/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It does not matter if you have used DMT, I was simply curious because of mckennas statements, which I argree with, I have had dreams in which a DMT experianced occored, just like in real life, and it was not recollections of past experiances it was a genuine new DMT experiance.
Now, I was curious if a lucid dreamer could lucid dream up a DMT filled pipe, take a large toke, and blast off. This is why I asked if you were familiar with DMT.
With other drugs in my dreams they don't work, sometimes mescaline works in my dreams, but its nothing like a DMT dream, I Aldo suffer from sleep paralysis, and generally when I'm paralyzed if I cant pull out of it I have to.experiance something identicle to DMT. When I die in my dreams I experiance a DMT flash ad well.
Before my first DMT experiance these things did not happen to me in dreams, or if it ever did I could never remember it. I think endogenous DMT plays a role.
Everything I said is heavily criticized in the DMT community, but I cant deny my experiances. (It seems that only 45% of DMT smokers experiance DMT dreams, so many are quick to dismiss the phenomena because it has never happened to them. Though there is no evidence that endogenous DMT plays a role in dreaming, I think DMT users can somehow access endogenous DMT while in REM sleep, so when you take the hit of DMT in your dreams you simultaneously obtain a flush of endogenous DMT.(I'm awarevthis is all speculation, this is definantly what feels like is happening, the DMT trip is new, not a composite of past experiances, its identicle to smoked DMT in real life...
If you have not tried DMT, I recomend that if the oppertunity should arise, take it! I'm not saying go out of your way looking for it, but if it ever comes around and you are offered, think twice before you pass it up. I feel this compound is the ultimate in inner space exploration, the most astonishing, beautiful, transformitive, transcendent, experiance that ive ever had, though at the same time it was disorienting, and ive never felt fear like I felt in the depths of a DMT experiance, true terror, but its necessary, this stuff is REAL, which means its not a cartoon daydream, your confronted with some very serious issues, your confronted with your own death, its called "vine of the dead" because it allows you to pass through the door which the dead pass daily....some interpret it as other dimentions, or other planets, but I'm convinced its death, and if one applies occams razor to the situation death is logically where you go during a peak DMT experiance....
Ive always wanted to meet a lucid dreamer, and ask them to pteform this conjuring up of the loaded DMT pipe in their lucid dream, but the lucid dreamer would have had to have had a DMT breakthrough at least once prior....
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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I wish I could lucid dream....
How can you make yourself aware that your dreaming? Even when I'm flying or breathing under water I still don't realize I'm in a dream....sometimes I even sit there and tell people "look I can do the impossible" as I Hoover above them before I take off flying I to the sky, same with breathing under water, I just think that ive somehow gained this ability, I'm never aware that I'm dreaming.
I have had lucid dreams, but they are rare, and I cant induce them at will...
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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I think you can take DMT and gain truth, keep in mind that DMT is an endogenous neurotransmitter, its naturally produced in every human body, and its reasonable to assume that everytime you have a natural spiritual or mystical experiance that its a fault of endogenous dimethyltryptamine, so I think the fact that I obtain my DMT from a plant and not from my body's inner reserves should not make a difference. DMT and psilocin produce genuine mystical experiances, the "good Friday experiment" confirms this.
DMT should not be seen as a drug or just some chemical, its the link between the spiritual world and this world, and it exists in all of us.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Practicing religion or being spiritual without entheogens is faith based.
Humans have Bern using entheogens to access the spiritual dimention for the majority of human history, as a result of the seperstion of entheogens and religion, all religions have become a faith based exegesis of the DMT experiance. (The shittah tree that the ark of the convenant was made fromwas a DMT containing acacia and peganum harmala was sacred to the Hebrews, early Hebrew art work on ancient church walls depicts the tree of knowledge as a mushroom as well.
Soma was obviously psiolycybe fungi, there's a line a the gita where Vishnu gives Arjuna "divine eyes" and Arjuna has a peak psilocin (or DMT) experiance....now what are divine eyes? psilocin dislated eyes.... Whatever you wish to see can be seen all at once in this body. This universal form can show you all that you now desire, as well as whatever you may desire in the future. Everything is here completely. Chapter 11, Verse 8
But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence. Chapter 11, Verse 9
Sa�jaya said: O King, speaking thus, the Supreme, the Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna. Chapter 11, Verse 10-11
Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths and unlimited eyes. It was all wondrous. The form was decorated with divine, dazzling ornaments and arrayed in many garbs. He was garlanded gloriously, and there were many scents smeared over His body. All was magnificent, all-expanding, unlimited. This was seen by Arjuna. Chapter 11, Verse 12
If hundreds of thousands of suns rose up at once into the sky, they might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form. Chapter 11, Verse 13
At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands. Chapter 11, Verse 14
Then, bewildered and astonished, his hair standing on end, Arjuna began to pray with folded hands, offering obeisances to the Supreme Lord. Chapter 11, Verse 15
Arjuna said: My dear Lord Ka, I see assembled together in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahmā sitting on the lotus flower as well as Lord Śiva and many sages and divine serpents. Chapter 11, Verse 16
O Lord of the universe, I see in Your universal body many, many forms-bellies, mouths, eyes-expanded without limit. There is no end, there is no beginning, and there is no middle to all this. Chapter 11, Verse 17
Your form, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs, is difficult to see because of its glaring effulgence, which is fiery and immeasurable like the sun. Chapter 11, Verse 18
You are the supreme primal objective; You are the best in all the universes; You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest; You are the maintainer of religion, the eternal Personality of Godhead. Chapter 11, Verse 19
You are the origin without beginning, middle or end. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are among Your great unlimited eyes. By Your own radiance You are heating this entire universe. Chapter 11, Verse 20
Although You are one, You are spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, as I behold this terrible form, I see that all the planetary systems are perplexed. Chapter 11, Verse 21
All the demigods are surrendering and entering into You. They are very much afraid, and with folded hands they are singing the Vedic hymns. Chapter 11, Verse 22
The different manifestations of Lord Śiva, the Ādityas, the Vasus, the Sādhyas, the Viśvadevas, the two Aśvins, the Māruts, the forefathers and the Gandharvas,the Yakas, Asuras, and all perfected demigods are beholding You in wonder. Chapter 11, Verse 23
O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your many faces, eyes, arms, bellies and legs and Your terrible teeth, and as they are disturbed, so am I. Chapter 11, Verse 24
O all-pervading Viu, I can no longer maintain my equilibrium. Seeing Your radiant colors fill the skies and beholding Your eyes and mouths, I am afraid. Chapter 11, Verse 25
O Lord of lords, O refuge of the worlds, please be gracious to me. I cannot keep my balance seeing thus Your blazing deathlike faces and awful teeth. In all directions I am bewildered.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Every religion seems to be the exegesis of the psychedelic experiance.
-E. Borofin
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: I wish I could lucid dream....
How can you make yourself aware that your dreaming? Even when I'm flying or breathing under water I still don't realize I'm in a dream....sometimes I even sit there and tell people "look I can do the impossible" as I Hoover above them before I take off flying I to the sky, same with breathing under water, I just think that ive somehow gained this ability, I'm never aware that I'm dreaming.
I have had lucid dreams, but they are rare, and I cant induce them at will...
-E. Borodin
Drugs hinder our attempts to lucid dream, I've been lucid dreaming all my life, as soon as I started with weed/psychedelics my lucid dreams became much more rare.
When I don't put anything into my body I lucid dream much better, recall dreams much easier
Here's my list: fast for 1-5 days in a row, makes you closer to spirit - really recommend it together with eating healthy up to , vegetables,nuts,oatmeal etc. exercise regularly , I like cycling 20km just before bed, makes body relaxed = more dream recall WILD / WB2B methods practiced weekly let all thoughts go when you fall to sleep , you cannot WANT to lucid dream
Most important: practice weekly then you will see improvements quickly remember dream journal every morning, gives 10x clearer dreams and makes you more likely to LD
avoid stress,pills,drugs
Worst stuff for lucid dreaming: daily weed use, kills all dreams - no dreams eating unhealthy, gives intense dreams , unpleasant dreams overeating pills of any kind
When you can lucid dream most nights with practice , then psychedelics/DMT become pretty useless because they have side effects usually. Then they are usually viewed as a drug with a price to pay. You can read more about WILD/WB2B at www.ld4all.nl and www.dreamviews.com, both work great for me, success 60% of the time or so, or next day.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Mmmmmmm-e-la-to-nin  For me it induces vivid, surreal dreams where I am aware of all that is happening and am able to remember my dreams clearly.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21889451 - 07/02/15 06:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I get the same effect as Melatonin is supposed to do, without taking the drug.
I go to bed in day hours to dream, preferably near a sunny window. Sleep in daytime
That's where the real vivid dreams come, it seems sun can have an effect on your dreaming. The more you are out in the sun in the day, the more relaxed, the better your lucid dreaming.
Sleeping in the daytime , in daylight can help you awake in the dream it seems
Worked several times for me, my most memorable OBEs have been this way
(this is also the whole principle of WB2B, a change in Melatonin without taking Melatonin!. Go to sleep in the day / sunny hours at random times during the day)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21889467 - 07/02/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's pretty annoying you keep hitting the ceiling when you float upwards in your dreams ;-)
Why is the ceiling the limit ? 
But I have tried floating out of windows too, or going through walls/teleporting
Very nice feeling that floating towards the ceiling, or floating above high treetops, best feeling in the world
Back when I was a kid I was very good at lucid dreaming compared to now. I could actually jump in the air to see if I was dreaming, then crawl up in the air and sit there!
I.e. in school... Was really amazing when I did that and then it was a dream, could fly anywhere in the country
Remember it still 20 years later
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21889802 - 07/02/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Naturally occurring melatonin is a light dependent hormone produced in the pineal gland. During the day the pineal gland is usually inactive.
Maybe you're just good at meditation or day dreaming?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21889835 - 07/02/15 08:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think I saw some research once that said that sunlight increases production of something in the brain.... cant remember if it was melatonin/DMT or such...
All I know is it seems to work great for lucid dreaming, going to bed at weird times - especially in daylight, sleeping with open curtains in daytime
Dreams become more vivid and real than this reality each time, feels so real
All my best lucid dreams/OBEs have been when I went to bed in daytime... - maybe it's just from changing sleep pattern, who knows.. I just like to experiment and find what works for me. This works great, I prefer to sleep in daytime to experiment with lucid dreams sometimes (it's the whole principle behind the WB2B method, changing sleep schedule, going to bed in daytime or when just waking up)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21890267 - 07/02/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Vitamin D?
If you can manage to sleep during daytime you must be tired, maybe it's your work schedule or something but that's unusual to do. Either way, best of sleep to you and all for it is important to rest yourself.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21890721 - 07/02/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Naturally occurring melatonin is a light dependent hormone produced in the pineal gland. During the day the pineal gland is usually inactive.
This lady is stretching her pineal gland, a yoga instructor told me so it must be true. Look how tight her pineal gland is!
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Hippocampus]
#21890810 - 07/02/15 11:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21890828 - 07/03/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No not that pineal gland. This one 
This is a great pose to stretch the pineal gland as well as the pituitary. And it wrings toxins from the liver
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21891394 - 07/03/15 05:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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In respond to lessismores last post, again I really wish you would seperate entheogens from drugs in your thinking, but I suppose westerners are so programmed to believe that these things are "drugs" and that they only offer false perceptions.....dimethyltryptamine is a neurotransmitter produced by the human body, just like serotonin (5-hydroxy-tryptamine) or meletonin (n-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine) or pinoline (6-methoxy-tetrahydro-beta-carboline).
Its difficult to make my case to people who have never tried DMT, because I understand the spiritualist "entheogens are impure practice" philosophy, but they cant understand where I'm comming from, they reduce the DMT experiance to a "high" or a "drugged out misperception" or try to rationalize it by thinking they have experianced something similar and that that they can reduce and understand it by piecing their past events over anedoctal evidence.
This stuff has not been the center of religious practice sense the begining of human history because its a "drug" in the western sense.
The human brain is not capable of healing or understanding itself without entheogenic aide.
I get in to this debate with Buddhists quite often, it always ends in me giving them a high dose of DMT, which instantly ends the debate.
All spirituality is the exegesis of the psychedelic experiance.
A man moved near a river and, wanting to find a way to travel across the water, spent ten years forming a type of levitation that would allow him to float across it. Buddha, who was preaching in town, was confronted by this man, who said, "Look master, look what I have achieved. I can walk across the water." And Buddha said, "Yeah, but the ferry only costs a nickel.
Meaning you could spend tour whole life trying to induce these States without entheogens, but why would you when you have entheogens?
Plus we don't have time for the whole world to master their minds through meditation or dreaming....
Like Buddha said 1000 people 1000 paths, dreaming and meditation may work for you (though ive always assumed people who say "dreams are better than psychedelics" are either pathological or have not tried psychedelics), and entheogenic shamanism works for me. I'm not saying your methods are any less effective or valid, just that they don't work for me.
I would sacrifice lucid dreaming for my spiritual practice with entheogens any day.
(When I say entheogens I'm not including marijuana)
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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The pineal gland is amazing! Serotonin enters and is converted to meletonin, its also where pinoline is produced, and due to all of this tryptamine chemistry it has lead Dr. Rick strassman to speculate that this is where endogenous DMT is produced (though they never confirmed this)
Tryptamine chemistry drives higher human consciousness.
-E. Borodin
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Maybe you should stop your drug induced haze?
Because Serotonin is native to the brain does not make hacking your brain harmless
You may make any association in the 5-12 hours a shroom/lsd trip lasts, you may suddenly be afraid of going outdoor, of people, of anything
Any association may happen
Anything may happen.... they don't act with a purpose scientifically, they regulate our perception
So your perception gets twisted, you may run into a suicide program...
That's not harmless, that's just another drug effect, changing ones perception That's what drugs do
Don't make your favorite drug the best thing in the world
DMT is yet another drug, even if it isn't pleasant each time People do get addicted to psychedelics and take years before they get back to reality, just like they do with weed
But these same people will claim neither weed or psychedelics are addictive, they can stop anytime they want
Why do they keep taking it all life then?
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 2,217
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You don't require halucination relaxation and daydreaming will open up access to more creativity.
There are people around with new understandings gained from neuroscience who can create course to increase your creative power. By exercising those brain regions and increasing blood flow.
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
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Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Hippocampus]
#21895640 - 07/04/15 05:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hippocampus said: No not that pineal gland. This one 
This is a great pose to stretch the pineal gland as well as the pituitary. And it wrings toxins from the liver

Thats definately released some toxins from my glands.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lessismore]
#21895957 - 07/04/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lessismore said: Maybe you should stop your drug induced haze?
Because Serotonin is native to the brain does not make hacking your brain harmless
You may make any association in the 5-12 hours a shroom/lsd trip lasts, you may suddenly be afraid of going outdoor, of people, of anything
Any association may happen
Anything may happen.... they don't act with a purpose scientifically, they regulate our perception
So your perception gets twisted, you may run into a suicide program...
That's not harmless, that's just another drug effect, changing ones perception That's what drugs do
Don't make your favorite drug the best thing in the world
DMT is yet another drug, even if it isn't pleasant each time People do get addicted to psychedelics and take years before they get back to reality, just like they do with weed
But these same people will claim neither weed or psychedelics are addictive, they can stop anytime they want
Why do they keep taking it all life then?
I again must respectfully disagree with you on this one. You can not become addicted to entheogens, because of rapid tolerence if you attempt to consume an entheogen daily it wont work, you must put at least 5-7 days between each experiance. They do NOT cause compulsive destructive behaviors, they do not cause compulsive redosing, and they are not simply causeing the brain to function impropperly, these compounds are using highly advanced neurochemical pathways.
N,Ñ-dimethyltryptamine is naturally produced in the human body, its a neurotransmitter/neuromodulater just like 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin), or meletonin (n-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine) or pinoline (6-meo-tetrahydro-beta-carboline)....
Another aspect of psychedelic use is even when its done for spiritual exploration you are NOT on psychedelics every minute of every day, I take psychedelics once a month, and that's heavy use for me, often I go up to a 6 months without needing a psychedelic session. Now, with ayahuasca you may be asked to attend a session each night for up to 4 days, but after that its all processing, even in the periods where use was needed once a week, its not like I was on ayahuasca or psilocin for the entire week.
Like I said, if lucid dreaming and meditation is satisfactory for you that's great, more power to you, but to denounce entheogens just because their use somehow conflicts with your personal preferences toward spirituality is repugnant.
These things are not addictive, they are not drugs, and they have been our gateway to spirituality since the begining of time. Entheogenic shamanism is just as valid as any other spiritual practice. I see it as the last true religion, because we don't get preaced at by humans who ask for our money, we dont need others to tell us what god wants read books about God, or the after-life, or existance after death, and so on, we experiance it first hand. There's NO faith involved here, we are the last religion that instead of relying on exegesis actually experiances these things first hand.
-E. Borodin
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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Again, I don't use drugs, I take advantage of exogenous neurotransmitters provided by my plant symbiote allys. There's nothing in my entheogenic preperations that isn't already produced in the human body, that or its a slight variation of a compound produced in the human body, such as psilocin, DMT is produced in the human body, psilocin is 4-hydroxy-DMT, so its an extremely subtle variation.
Even mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine) is a variation of dopeamine (3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine).
Until you have tried these compounds it may be best to reserve your judgements.
You keep saying that there is a 6-12 hour time period, this is not the case, smoked DMT lasts 15 minutes.
To ask me to practice shamanism without entheogens is like asking a race-car driver to race without a car, or asking an astronomer to work without his telescope. There are some things the human body can not do on its own, which is why we were given the ability to use tools. In nature tool using creatures have the upper hand over non-tool users, entheogens are just as valuable of a tool as any other.
Look, if you want to visit France you must board an air-plane or other vehicle to get there, just like if you want to access the after-life you need a vehicle to get there, and just like in regular travel you have boats, cars, planes, trains, etc...each will get you there in its own unique way, just like with entheogens you have DMT, mescaline, psilocin etc...each will get you there in its own unique way...but you MUST have a vehicle....
The flaw in learning from humans is that they are limited by their humanity, entheogens are far supperior teachers.
E. Borodin
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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I don't know, but I know I see teachers whereever I look when I am balanced
I don't just look to psychedelics, they have their benefits/downsides
I like many ways , and I chose the least dangerous one usually, atm I like drum travels and lucid dreaming
I use those that help my progress in life, and psychedelics are not just 100% good too me, they have downsides too
Had to quit daily weed too some years back, it wasn't good for me
I don't go the full shamanic depth too often either, but I like the music soul connection too , I like what connects me to my soul
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Jaegar
Formless One



Registered: 05/04/09
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Last seen: 6 months, 2 days
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Quote:
Coincidentiaoppositorum said: Again, I don't use drugs, I take advantage of exogenous neurotransmitters provided by my plant symbiote allys. There's nothing in my entheogenic preperations that isn't already produced in the human body, that or its a slight variation of a compound produced in the human body, such as psilocin, DMT is produced in the human body, psilocin is 4-hydroxy-DMT, so its an extremely subtle variation.
Even mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxy-phenethylamine) is a variation of dopeamine (3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine).
Until you have tried these compounds it may be best to reserve your judgements.
You keep saying that there is a 6-12 hour time period, this is not the case, smoked DMT lasts 15 minutes.
To ask me to practice shamanism without entheogens is like asking a race-car driver to race without a car, or asking an astronomer to work without his telescope. There are some things the human body can not do on its own, which is why we were given the ability to use tools. In nature tool using creatures have the upper hand over non-tool users, entheogens are just as valuable of a tool as any other.
Look, if you want to visit France you must board an air-plane or other vehicle to get there, just like if you want to access the after-life you need a vehicle to get there, and just like in regular travel you have boats, cars, planes, trains, etc...each will get you there in its own unique way, just like with entheogens you have DMT, mescaline, psilocin etc...each will get you there in its own unique way...but you MUST have a vehicle....
The flaw in learning from humans is that they are limited by their humanity, entheogens are far supperior teachers.
E. Borodin
Sorry this plant ally crap ticks me off. Is there evidence that what you experiance on a tryptamine or etc had quantifiable data to establish substantial relevance.
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Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
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lessismore said: Maybe you should stop your drug induced haze?
Because Serotonin is native to the brain does not make hacking your brain harmless
You may make any association in the 5-12 hours a shroom/lsd trip lasts, you may suddenly be afraid of going outdoor, of people, of anything
Any association may happen
Anything may happen.... they don't act with a purpose scientifically, they regulate our perception
So your perception gets twisted, you may run into a suicide program...
That's not harmless, that's just another drug effect, changing ones perception That's what drugs do
Don't make your favorite drug the best thing in the world
DMT is yet another drug, even if it isn't pleasant each time People do get addicted to psychedelics and take years before they get back to reality, just like they do with weed
But these same people will claim neither weed or psychedelics are addictive, they can stop anytime they want
Why do they keep taking it all life then?
I again must respectfully disagree with you on this one. You can not become addicted to entheogens, because of rapid tolerence if you attempt to consume an entheogen daily it wont work, you must put at least 5-7 days between each experiance. They do NOT cause compulsive destructive behaviors, they do not cause compulsive redosing, and they are not simply causeing the brain to function impropperly, these compounds are using highly advanced neurochemical pathways.
N,Ñ-dimethyltryptamine is naturally produced in the human body, its a neurotransmitter/neuromodulater just like 5-hydroxytryptamine (serotonin), or meletonin (n-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine) or pinoline (6-meo-tetrahydro-beta-carboline)....
Another aspect of psychedelic use is even when its done for spiritual exploration you are NOT on psychedelics every minute of every day, I take psychedelics once a month, and that's heavy use for me, often I go up to a 6 months without needing a psychedelic session. Now, with ayahuasca you may be asked to attend a session each night for up to 4 days, but after that its all processing, even in the periods where use was needed once a week, its not like I was on ayahuasca or psilocin for the entire week.
Like I said, if lucid dreaming and meditation is satisfactory for you that's great, more power to you, but to denounce entheogens just because their use somehow conflicts with your personal preferences toward spirituality is repugnant.
These things are not addictive, they are not drugs, and they have been our gateway to spirituality since the begining of time. Entheogenic shamanism is just as valid as any other spiritual practice. I see it as the last true religion, because we don't get preaced at by humans who ask for our money, we dont need others to tell us what god wants read books about God, or the after-life, or existance after death, and so on, we experiance it first hand. There's NO faith involved here, we are the last religion that instead of relying on exegesis actually experiances these things first hand.
-E. Borodin
If this was a effort to support entheogenics I'm more then confounded. To be honest sexy butts has the most influence and probably relevance in this discussion.
Edited by Jaegar (07/04/15 09:42 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Jaegar]
#21897576 - 07/04/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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How about a nice pair of boobs?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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