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Coincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic


Registered: 10/27/14
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Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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dreams impact on reality
#21805227 - 06/14/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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August Kekulé was attempting to understand the structure of the benzene ring, he had a dream of a snake eating its own tail, which resulted in his discovery of the benzene ring.
Rene Descartes while holding siege to Prague in a Hapsburg army had a dream that helped found modern science, as described by Terence mckenna: " I believe it was the 17th of August of that year, which was 1619, the beginning year of the Thirty Years’ War – they made camp at Ulm in Southern Germany. Just as an aside, Ulm was the birthplace of Albert Einstein. That night, Descartes had a dream. In the dream, a radiant angel appeared to him and said, “The conquest of nature is to be achieved through number and measure.” In that moment, Rene Descartes went from being a nobody to being the founder of modern science. Modern science was founded at the direction of an angel and the angel showed how it was. To this day, modern science has made all of its strides through the application of number, mathematical analysis, and measure"
Srinivasa Ramanujan said he was "shown" his complex mathematical formulas in dreams by Hindu gods.
The list goes on and on....
Im fascinated by psychedelic States and States of hallucination such as dreaming. I feel both methods can produce outstanding results to those who are paying attention, and can change the world in unbelievable ways.
There must be some property of mind that we are unaware of at this point, I feel information can be transferred through States of hallucination, but I'm still not sure exactly how this occors....
-E. Borodin
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LSDreamer
Materialist



Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10,052
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Those are cases of unconscious processing. There is a lot more going on in your brain than what is being communicated to your conscious mind all the time. If you were always aware of everything going on in your brain, the experience would be overwhelming. The You Are Not So Smart Podcast, which is an excellent psychology podcast that I highly recommend, has a great episode that discusses unconscious learning: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2014/12/22/3372/
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qwert3
Stranger

Registered: 05/31/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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or u could check out skeptiko podcast hes got a bunch of stuff on dreamin, out o body exp, near death exp, etc... mostly non conventional opinions there, quite interesting methinks
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Look up Jeremy Narby, he spent a lot of time with shamans in the Amazon and has some very interesting things to say about psychedelics and DNA intelligence.
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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hobowizard
beginner
Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 192
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hTx]
#21826846 - 06/19/15 06:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Try counting while in lucid dream or even in simple dream (paradox, because how can you count in simple dream if you're not in lucid dream - you can't control yourself). If you can count well, you're probably really trained in some way, because usually you can't even solve simple equations such as 18+7=x.
Edited by hobowizard (06/19/15 06:05 AM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: hobowizard]
#21826874 - 06/19/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Perhaps consciousness is the mere ability of awareness and dreams are full awareness of imagination, who knows as of yet.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21828663 - 06/19/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Perhaps consciousness is the mere ability of awareness and dreams are full awareness of imagination, who knows as of yet.
Prayers work too(no evidence, don't ask) and dreams do, on occasion, affect the waking world.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21829526 - 06/19/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
sudly said: Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Perhaps consciousness is the mere ability of awareness and dreams are full awareness of imagination, who knows as of yet.
Prayers work too(no evidence, don't ask) and dreams do, on occasion, affect the waking world.
"No evidence, don't ask", Did I ever tell you about my pet unicorn Krandal? He lives in my shoe and eats my socks. It's true because I believe it is..
Sorry lowbrow but belief doesn't change reality.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21830656 - 06/19/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: "No evidence, don't ask", Did I ever tell you about my pet unicorn Krandal? He lives in my shoe and eats my socks. It's true because I believe it is.. Sorry lowbrow but belief doesn't change reality.
Hey, I said no evidence, but I think I was more or less addressing this statement...
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sudly said: Dreams impact the mind, not reality. If anyones going to claim that they should claim prayers works too.
Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr.?
How about August Kekulé? Somebody else already mentioned him. http://www.worlddreambank.org/K/KEKULE.HTM
I must say you were rather rude and passive-aggressive in your response to me.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21830713 - 06/20/15 12:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You said prayer works, dreams can affected the waking world and said I shouldn't ask for evidence.
I tried to make it obvious that I think you're an idiot, of course I'll ask for evidence of such claims. Do you have any reason to believe in them other than faith?
My assumption is that you believe in a spirit realm too?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21830725 - 06/20/15 12:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21831129 - 06/20/15 02:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: You said prayer works
You said prayer doesn't work, but if you can make a blanket statement so can I. Its also not up to me to prove my claim, its up to you to prove yours because your claim was first.
Quote:
sudly said: You said prayer works, dreams can affected the waking world and said I shouldn't ask for evidence.
Sneaky. You worded it like I said don't ask for evidence of dreams affecting the waking world. That's downright dishonest. Here I'll go ahead and quote that again just for you..
Quote:
lowbrow said: Prayers work too(no evidence, don't ask) and dreams do, on occasion, affect the waking world.
After which I mentioned the examples
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lowbrow said:
Ever heard of Martin Luther King Jr.?
How about August Kekulé? Somebody else already mentioned him. http://www.worlddreambank.org/K/KEKULE.HTM
Evidence supported. Still waiting on your retort other than...
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sudly said: I tried to make it obvious that I think you're an idiot,
And I think your an arrogant little prick asshole.
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sudly said: My assumption is that you believe in a spirit realm too?
Man, I can feel the venom in that statement through my screen.
Still waiting on your retort to my evidence.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21831445 - 06/20/15 06:42 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I can't prove the rationally impossible and I don't have to because it's rationally impossible. I don't have to prove square circles exist and I don't have to prove that thought doesn't change tangeable reality. If you want to claim the impossible then the burden is on you to produce physical evidence supporting it.
I made a spelling mistake, affect* You said prayer works and that I shouldn't ask for evidence. Well I am.
As for your "evidence", Have you ever heard of happenstance? He got an idea from a dream, that doesn't mean dreams changes reality. It means he had a dream and got an idea.
I asked if you believe in a spirit realm because many people who claim the existence of God do. It was a simple question.
I called you an idiot, not an asshole.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


Registered: 09/12/08
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21832269 - 06/20/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I can't prove the rationally impossible and I don't have to because it's rationally impossible. I don't have to prove square circles exist and I don't have to prove that thought doesn't change tangeable reality. If you want to claim the impossible then the burden is on you to produce physical evidence supporting it.
You made the initial claim, so the burden of proof is on your head. All I did was disagree with your initial statement. Good luck with that one too, by the way.
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sudly said: As for your "evidence", Have you ever heard of happenstance?
hap·pen·stance \ˈha-pən-ˌstan(t)s, ˈha-pəm-\ noun : something that happens by chance Full Definition :a circumstance especially that is due to chance
I'd say that your use of the word is misguided, it doesn't fit into the criteria of what we're discussing.
Quote:
sudly said:
He got an idea from a dream, that doesn't mean dreams changes reality. It means he had a dream and got an idea.
But that idea led to the Civil Rights Movement which did change reality.
In effect, a dream did change reality.
Quote:
sudly said:
I called you an idiot, not an asshole.
No you didn't. And I didn't call you an asshole either.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 753
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21832928 - 06/20/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love it when theists try to turn the claim thing upside down: "You claimed there is no god first, so you have to prove it." uh no, we're starting from a position of no gods, and prayers being just things people say. If you want to claim there is anything else to it, then the burden of proof is on you sir.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: Hippocampus]
#21833350 - 06/20/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, its on the person who made the initial claim.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Hippocampus



Registered: 04/01/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833410 - 06/20/15 06:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's not a claim. It's a default position. If I say rainbows don't come out of your ass instead of poop, that's not asking anyone to accept anything that isn't already accepted fact. I don't have to prove that rainbows don't come out of your ass. If you're now going to take the position that they do, then you still have to bring the evidence for it.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833526 - 06/20/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hippocampus said: It's not a claim. It's a default position. If I say rainbows don't come out of your ass instead of poop, that's not asking anyone to accept anything that isn't already accepted fact. I don't have to prove that rainbows don't come out of your ass. If you're now going to take the position that they do, then you still have to bring the evidence for it.
Quote:
lowbrow said: No, its on the person who made the initial claim.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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sudly
Darwin's stagger


Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: lowbrow]
#21833557 - 06/20/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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"And I think your an arrogant little prick asshole." Look man, if you're going to try and tell me you didn't call me an asshole after calling me an asshole, it's evident that you are dishonest and I'd rather not continue to waste my time responding to such behaviours.
"I think you're an idiot", is calling you an idiot and taking responsibility that it's only my view.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Sun King



Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 4,069
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Re: dreams impact on reality [Re: sudly]
#21833660 - 06/20/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love watching two great minds debate.
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