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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
Re: the individual vs. the collective [Re: Phred]
    #2189461 - 12/19/03 03:01 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

First of all, you have no choice but to use many of the services of which you speak, since the government refuses to allow competitors into the market.




Would you really want a group of competing fire services or police forces?


--------------------
Always Smi2le

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: the individual vs. the collective [Re: GazzBut]
    #2189532 - 12/19/03 03:50 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

While I thank you for the direct answer, it boggles my mind that you feel it is OK to TAKE from one who has earned to give to one who has not.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 2 months, 14 days
Re: the individual vs. the collective [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2189584 - 12/19/03 05:29 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah and it boggles my mind that you think it is ok for somebody to watch somebody die when they have the power to help. Which is basically what you are advocating.

That which you see as taking I see as a contribution to maintain a stable and secure society. As to an acceptable level of contribution and also an aggreable means of its distribution I think alot could be done to improve these areas. But simply saying an individual doesnt have to contribute is short sighted and ignores the fact that no man lives apart from society, every man who would be asked to pay tax enjoys the benefits of living in an organised society. Why should they get this for free? Oh i know we should privatise everything right? Well every time they have privatised something over here the prices have risen and the quality of service has fallen. Give this matter some thought and you will see why in most cases this is what will always happen.
At the end of the day, to use a common "rightie" refrain if you dont like it go live someplace else. There are plenty of places in the world you can live without paying tax although unless you are super rich you may soon return to the benefits of living in an organised, taxed collective and be thankful you have the chance.


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Always Smi2le

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: the individual vs. the collective [Re: Phred]
    #2190064 - 12/19/03 10:42 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)


I have no children, yet I am forced to pay for the education of the
children of others.


*corny music*

But, children are our future...
la, la, la

:smirk:

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: the individual vs. the collective [Re: GazzBut]
    #2190228 - 12/19/03 11:45 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Yeah and it boggles my mind that you think it is ok for somebody to watch somebody die when they have the power to help. Which is basically what you are advocating.



Not even close. I suspect you know that. Try being a bit more honest.

What I do say is that it is not the place of the government in this country to take what I have earned and to give it to one who has not. We have a Constitution here which clearly sets out the limits of what the government must do and not do. Taking from me to give to those who have not earned, is clearly not allowed.


Quote:

That which you see as taking I see as a contribution to maintain a stable and secure society.



When government takes from the unwilling, the unwilling have not contributed. They have been deprived, by force, of their earnings.


Quote:

But simply saying an individual doesnt have to contribute is short sighted and ignores the fact that no man lives apart from society, every man who would be asked to pay tax enjoys the benefits of living in an organised society. Why should they get this for free?



You're being very disingenuous today. I've never said anyone should be able to opt out of taxes. I've said that those who do not contribute have no right to what I have worked for. I don't complain about the concept of taxes, merely their use to support unconstitutional expenditures.

Theft is theft no matter who does it. The feds doing it makes it no less wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Anonymous

Re: the individual vs. the collective [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2190794 - 12/19/03 02:21 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

They's a whooooole lot of thinking going on.....in this thread.

It's nice to see. :smile:

Luv, would you care to comment in my thread about political justice?  I have a pretty good idea of your ideas but I would like to see you defend them.  Not against me, of course.  I want to see you defend them against a few ideas I have read about recently.  I keep hitting a brick wall and I need yours and Pinky's help before I bash my brains out.

:lol:

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