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InvisibleautomanM
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Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 7,867
i have changed my mind.
    #2180250 - 12/15/03 07:07 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

for most of my life, i have believed in term limits for congressmen. i think i have changed my mind, though.

i now think that a congressman should make the average income of his state, INCLUDING UNEMPLOYED IN THAT AVERAGE. currently in my state, that is about $27,000 a year.

this is my first post in this forum. i look forward to seeing others views.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: automan]
    #2180260 - 12/15/03 07:10 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You'd probably get people worth 27,000 then becau..... Oh.... wait.

They should not be allowed to grant themselves pay raises. They should have SS for retirement like the rest of us. They should have to obey all the same laws as us.

Good first post.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2180538 - 12/15/03 08:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

but do you necessarily want people that chase the dollar
to be holding political office?

there is something to be said for volunteerism in government,
given restrictions on income from other sources.

or even like the poster suggested...an average income or even
just one that provides for basic sustenance.

it's funny...the old 'liberal' argument is funny but true

(regardless of the merits of the argument for min wage increase)

congress has failed to raise the minimum wage in five years,
but in each of those five years, they've granted themselves
handsome pay raises.

I don't know if it is true or not...but it makes you wonder about
what is and isn't getting passed each year.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: afoaf]
    #2180562 - 12/15/03 08:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Really man.... the Oh.... wait was to indicate that they are worth about that much.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: automan]
    #2181483 - 12/16/03 02:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Lowering their wages would make them more corrupt.
It would be much more important if they had limits on how much they can spend on campaign. This would limit the influence corporations have on the politics.


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Anonymous

Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: zeronio]
    #2181497 - 12/16/03 03:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

This isn't an easy question to answer because there are pros and cons either way.

Good Morning! :smile:


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: ]
    #2181509 - 12/16/03 03:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

In my and other countries is quite similar. It's not fair that money donators get more power over polititians then their voters. They should represent people not corporations.

PS. Good night! :wink:


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 498
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: zeronio]
    #2183647 - 12/16/03 08:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zeronio said:
In my and other countries is quite similar. It's not fair that money donators get more power over polititians then their voters. They should represent people not corporations.

PS. Good night! :wink:




Lets say that I own a company with 500 workers.  Because of my being the sole owner, I make a large amount of money.  The average employee at my company makes 9$/hour plus full benefits and assistance with tuition.  With my 7 figure income, I donate money to a politican that I know will put forth bills and legislative action that is going to keep my operating costs down and prevent foreign companies from getting breaks on importing their goods that could possibly drive me out of business. The politican wins and he does help fight for me.  My company stays open, makes a lot of money, and my employees get generous raises.

How, exactly, is that bad for the working class?


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OfflineGranola
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Registered: 05/18/03
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: afoaf]
    #2184438 - 12/17/03 03:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
congress has failed to raise the minimum wage in five years,
but in each of those five years, they've granted themselves
handsome pay raises.

I don't know if it is true or not...but it makes you wonder about
what is and isn't getting passed each year.




they recieved a 20% payraise one year, I was offered $.10 and quit because $4 a week will buy a 12 pack of coke.

on $60k thats $12k a year, mine would have been $204 per year, mo mother made $6800 that year and couldnt qualify for government assistance.

Ploiticians shouldnt be paid for the office, no gifts either, it should be a labor of love for their country and its people it's not.


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Registered: 09/24/03
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: Granola]
    #2184584 - 12/17/03 04:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

You have a very optimistic outlook on human nature.

A congressman paid nothing will make money other ways. Ways we might not be happy with.


--------------------
He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2184608 - 12/17/03 05:04 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

... How, exactly, is that bad for the working class?




I understand your point but why do we have elections then? Polititians could just collect money and who collects more wins. (Well... that's already the case)
The only role of elections is to maintain the illusion of democracy. It seems that people know that it's pointless and that their votes don't count - that's why less then 50% of population with voting right go to elections.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2184634 - 12/17/03 05:27 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Here is a Benjamin Franklin story:

Quote:


A man with a $50 jackass, he observed, was entitled to vote because he could meet the property requirement. By the time the jackass died, the man might have grown wise in public affairs. But the jackass was dead and the man could not vote. ?Now gentlemen, pray inform me,? Franklin asked: ?in whom is the right of suffrage? In the man or in the jackass??





He thought that democracy will go into a different direction. Now more money means more rights.


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Offlineenimatpyrt
addict
Registered: 11/05/03
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: zeronio]
    #2185483 - 12/17/03 04:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zeronio said:
Quote:

... How, exactly, is that bad for the working class?




I understand your point but why do we have elections then? Polititians could just collect money and who collects more wins. (Well... that's already the case)
The only role of elections is to maintain the illusion of democracy. It seems that people know that it's pointless and that their votes don't count - that's why less then 50% of population with voting right go to elections.




Use this theory and explain Steve Forbes failure.

I'm not saying that their isnt' an element of truth to what you are saying, but it's not "All the time". The richest person doesn't always win the election. If more companies(read my example above) contribute money to a specific candidate, couldn't htat mean that that candidate will help out their enterprise overall, with the benefit being for the owner and the employee both?


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2187014 - 12/18/03 04:25 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If more companies(read my example above) contribute money to a specific candidate, couldn't htat mean that that candidate will help out their enterprise overall, with the benefit being for the owner and the employee both?




Yes, but what is good for the owner isn't necessary good also for employees.
I don't like the idea that the owner of my company knows whats the best for me and I don't have a word in it.


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Anonymous

Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: zeronio]
    #2187412 - 12/18/03 11:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Then don't work for the owner that you don't like.

People start and run businesses to make money, not to babysit their employees and cater to their wishes.

The beautiful thing is that we can make choices without coercing others to do our will.

I know a lot of people that feel the way you do. I think they have given their free will over to other people. That is not good.


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OfflineGranola
bag lady

Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 411
Loc: 50.0N-6.0E
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Re: i have changed my mind. [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #2187844 - 12/18/03 02:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
You have a very optimistic outlook on human nature.

A congressman paid nothing will make money other ways. Ways we might not be happy with.




which is why I believe that they should have termlimits, 2 terms, 1 term in office and 1 term in prison.


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