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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass...
#21800019 - 06/12/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Democrats--led other than by NANCY PELOSI!! basically told Obama to shove it.
Now, it is being spun many different ways, but here is what happened: Most people don't even know what all was in that bill, because select Cronyist Republicans, Obama, and Big Corporation Dick-Suckers wante this fucker rammroded through. However, Pelosi turned on Obama, and the 'Trade Adjustment Assistance' portion of the bill--which gives aid to workers displaced by global trade--was rejected in the house with 302!! votes against it, led by Pelosi.
Why? She stated, she would rather workers have jobs than displacement assistance....
She is right. According to some sources, Obama mentioned that it would cost a lot of american jobs (2 million or more in the next few years) when the bills passed, but that displaced. workers would 'find a workaround' Yea right...
The other interesting tidbit was that when lobbying the D's, he allegedly got indignant, and more than a few democrats are on record as saying that Obama insulted them!!!
Well, gee fucking whiz, they are just finding out what kind of a fucking turd they floated into office in 2008?
There is a lot of spin on this, and facts are hidden because for some reason, the details had to be hidden. Also, some of the insiders on the bill who knew where big corporate lobbyists who used to be senior congressional leadership. (Forget who they mentioned.)
But for this bill to be rejected by democrats, as well as the libertarian/CC branch of the republicans--kind of tells me this bill must really be stinker, to get people like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, working with Nancy Pelosi to kill it. maybe we need more of this stuff happening.
I used to think Obama was an ideologue, but now I think he is just gaming the country so he can get out and suck on the corporate tit and rake in millions because he appears to be doing everything he can to get a huge gravy train rolling for big corporations. Get the corporate gravy-train rolling faster than it already is.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21800054 - 06/12/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, this thing had to be killed and I'm very glad it was.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21800059 - 06/12/15 11:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Le_Canard said: Yeah, this thing had to go and I'm very glad it did.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21800122 - 06/12/15 11:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It'll be back like The Walking Dead in October.. 
Quote:
workers would 'find a workaround'
Most people getting fucked don't get a workaround. They're lucky to get some lube.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: zorbman]
#21801018 - 06/13/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wake up and get smart, bring your own lube.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21801023 - 06/13/15 07:25 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bonehner got his share of the ass fucking and proves again he doesn't control the House.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21801416 - 06/13/15 09:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Obumble defeated by his own party! That totally made my day. Besides the tpp there are a few other equally evil plans being hatched. Big money always seems to win in the end so they will try to sneak it through later on.
All obumble's allies turned on him, unions, far leftists, long time dems, as well as some gop. His horrible aca is on the ropes and about to be gutted by scotus. The chickens are finally coming home to roost and the liar in the white house is now the lamest of lame ducks.
Look for his approval ratings to go even farther south while of course the media forgets to mention it. Is there any chance of topedoing his library? Where does it say every asshat who is elected to that office gets a library? Dedicate a sewage pumping plant to him, that is enough.
Worst president in all history.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21801644 - 06/13/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Worst president in all history.
I would say that is George W. Bush, but he's making up ground fast!
The scary thing is that since he's a lame duck, the only real power he has left is in the area of foreign policy. So he will no doubt be unable to resist the temptation to put his reverse Midas touch to work there as well..
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: zorbman]
#21801995 - 06/13/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
Worst president in all history.
I would say that is George W. Bush, but he's making up ground fast!
The scary thing is that since he's a lame duck, the only real power he has left is in the area of foreign policy. So he will no doubt be unable to resist the temptation to put his reverse Midas touch to work there as well..
Imo, he has passed shrub a while ago. Don't forget it was shrub who negotiated the end to the Iraq war and obumble got the nobel for supposedly pulling out troops and being peaceful, though that was vague. Now he sent troops back in, the nobel committee should ask for the medal back, the jackass never earned it in the first place.
"reverse Midas touch" I like that. Everything he touches turns to shit. Now that he has alienated his base, where does he go from here? If he thinks the gop will support him he needs a wake up call. I'm hoping even the media turns on him, that would be the final coup de grace.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21802161 - 06/13/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21802367 - 06/13/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Except this:
http://rt.com/usa/266863-tpp-pass-house-obama/
Except this:
Quote:
The key roll call came on a measure to grant financial aid to displaced workers, with 144 Democrats linking arms with 158 Republicans in a rout that left the overall package of trade bills stalled. Despite Obama’s entreaty to “play it straight,” Democrats rejected a program that they had almost universally supported in the past because its failure also ensured the failure of the centerpiece measure, the “fast-track” negotiating authority. House leaders structured the voting so that it required passage of three separate measures for the legislation to advance.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obama-is-all-in-on-trade-sees-it-as-a-cornerstone-of-his-legacy/2015/06/12/32b6dce8-1073-11e5-a0dc-2b6f404ff5cf_story.html
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21802580 - 06/13/15 01:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Obumble defeated by his own party! That totally made my day.
Bonebner lost more people then the prez did and it was his job to deliver.
Quote:
The key roll call came on a measure to grant financial aid to displaced workers, with 144 Democrats linking arms with 158 Republicans in a rout that left the overall package of trade bills stalled.
Quote:
Besides the tpp there are a few other equally evil plans being hatched. Big money always seems to win in the end so they will try to sneak it through later on.
Big money always wins
Quote:
Worst president in all history.
Not by a long shot
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21802588 - 06/13/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>Not by a long shot
Its close now but he has a year and a half to screw up even more. Name one thing shrub did that obumble didn't do?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21802607 - 06/13/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lie about Iraq war
Killed 5,000 servicemen and women
Tanked the economy
Let his VP usurp his power
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21802620 - 06/13/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sweeper54 said: Lie about Iraq war
Killed 5,000 servicemen and women
Tanked the economy
Let his VP usurp his power
Lies about everything killed many more than that the economy is worse than when he started his vp is a dope
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21802832 - 06/13/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The shrubs lie cost us $3 trillion
Not US servicemen.
Show your proof
He's a better man then a lot pubs
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21802892 - 06/13/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>Show your proof
Where is yours?
>He's a better man then a lot pubs
Name 3? You just blindly support the most left wing dem.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21803293 - 06/13/15 06:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It ain't over till the fat lady sings, and she's warming up behind the curtain. They are going to get this TPP through, don't worry folks. Any celebrating now is premature.
I wish I was wrong, but this one will be in the bag by end of October, the absolute latest.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21803687 - 06/13/15 08:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21803764 - 06/13/15 08:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The economy tanked under obumble, what more do we need to know?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21803947 - 06/13/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
sweeper54 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: the economy is worse than when he started
Show your proof
Where is yours?
Sweeper didn't make the claim - you did. Your logical fallacy is: burden of proof.
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
sweeper54 said: http://ourfuture.org/20141208/bush-vs-obama-on-the-economy-in-3-simple-charts
The economy tanked under obumble, what more do we need to know?
Sweeper was still kind enough to provide you counterevidence.
And you can't even remember when the economy collapsed. It was in 2008 while Bush was still president.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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And the Repubs in the House and Senate are trying to repeal the banking regulations that were put into place to prevent a meltdown like we had in '08. And they're even sniping at the regulations put into place to prevent another Great Depression too.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21805306 - 06/14/15 08:37 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You guys are still stuck in the dems are good gop is bad mind set. You are looking for someone who thinks gop are the good guys so you can go back and forth "yes he is, no he isn't". Both are the bad guys, both sides are only interested in how much bribe money they can get.
>And you can't even remember when the economy collapsed. It was in 2008 while Bush was still president.
One of us is having memory problems. The economy today is worse than it was in '08. Its not only not fixed its worse. All those trillions of dollars handed over to banks and cronies did little to nothing to help us. The trillions wasted on overseas wars did nothing to help us. That's what your hero spent the stimulus on and we are still waiting for a recovery.
So while obumble has been a terrible president, that does not mean the gop are the good guys. Both sides are crooks. The tpp, ttip, and other dirty secret deals will be the legacy of this chump. Even fal and sweeper will begin to curse him when they find out what scam he put over on us. Its secret for a reason, same reason the aca was secret. Its the newest trick, you have to pass it to find out whats in it.
They are already finding "compromises" to shove the tpp forward, the taa has been approved and that was the major stumbling block. Now they will do some pro wrestling type theatrics to make it look like dems are against it but at the same time making sure it passes. Don't forget to bring your popcorn.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21805540 - 06/14/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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This forum is such a joke.
--------------------
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#21809069 - 06/15/15 02:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: This forum is such a joke.
Seriously. I don't know how anyone can argue that the economy is worse today than after the crash in 2008.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21809099 - 06/15/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also, if we're going to talk worst presidents, I sure hope people are considering more than just the last few from recent memory. Don't forget presidents like Buchanan (who was woefully inept at preventing the Civil War), Johnson (who fucked up the slave issue after the war and was the first president to be impeached, falling one vote shy of conviction in the Senate), Hoover (remember learning about Hooverville's in high school anyone? There's a reason they were named after him), Van Buren (who was nicknamed Martin Van Ruin after causing the panic of 1837), and Harding (who is widely regarded amongst the worst with all the scandals and what not, such as Teapot Dome). I hardly think Obama is on the same level as presidents who caused the Great Depression and the Civil War, but those are just my two cents.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21809111 - 06/15/15 02:46 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: This forum is such a joke.
Seriously. I don't know how anyone can argue that the economy is worse today than after the crash in 2008.
http://unemploymentdata.com/current-u6-unemployment-rate/
the official U3 unemployment rate just reached the same level as it was the start of 2009. The U6 Rate is much higher than it was in 2009. In addition, there are a large number of people working part time now rather than full time.
But hey, the bankers and the dick suckers on wall street made out like a bandit with handouts from the government, didn't they?
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21809341 - 06/15/15 05:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not saying the economy is good right now, or that Wall Street didn't dip their hand in the taxpayers wallet, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in 2008. Since Obama took office jobs, long term employment, and real weekly earnings are all up. Unemployment is down. Granted, other numbers are negative, but overall the economy seems to be doing much better than it was during the recession. Do you disagree?
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/01/obamas-numbers-january-2015-update/
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21809787 - 06/15/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Things aren't nearly as good as they should be, but aren't nearly as bad as they were in 08.
--------------------
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21810158 - 06/15/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Things are way worse. All they did was postpone and compound the underlying problems.
either they raise interest rates and crash the economy or they run the dollar into the ground.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21810480 - 06/15/15 12:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I'm not saying the economy is good right now, or that Wall Street didn't dip their hand in the taxpayers wallet, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in 2008. Since Obama took office jobs, long term employment, and real weekly earnings are all up. Unemployment is down. Granted, other numbers are negative, but overall the economy seems to be doing much better than it was during the recession. Do you disagree?
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/01/obamas-numbers-january-2015-update/
We just hit the same number of jobs as we did in 2007, that's 7 years just to get back to where we started, and that's not accounting for population growth.
We have the lowest worker participation rate in over 40 years, that's not a good sign.
We also have the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, another bad sign.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21810825 - 06/15/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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And the economy is in an even larger bubble than before.
Without the federal reserve constantly injecting billions of dollars into wall st. The whole ponzi econony will collapse. If they continue on this road, the dollar will collapse.
instead of allowing the problems to be fixed, the fed has postponed the pain and made it worse for when the day of reckoning does come.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21811232 - 06/15/15 03:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: And the economy is in an even larger bubble than before.
Without the federal reserve constantly injecting billions of dollars into wall st. The whole ponzi econony will collapse. If they continue on this road, the dollar will collapse.
instead of allowing the problems to be fixed, the fed has postponed the pain and made it worse for when the day of reckoning does come.
This is true. Incompetent boobs like obumble, his greedy crooked cronies, and the wall st and rich crowd who gives the orders do not care. They have already stockpiled gold for when the dollar goes bust. Smart people will do the same, gold or silver or other commodities. Just keep enough cash to operate on.
They are like the person who realizes he can never pay his debts so he goes on a buying spree on credit planning to file bankruptcy. We will be the ones holding the bag, those who did not take steps to escape the collapse. It will hurt us all but if you invested properly you won't be hurt too badly.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21811291 - 06/15/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just goes to show how far the shrub tanked us and then wasted $3T more in the big sand box.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21811392 - 06/15/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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No one has said shrub was anything but a dope, what you apparently can't see or don't want to see is that obumble has wasted some 9 or 10 $T on nothing. Wasted it on overseas wars that help us none when we are not attacked. Wasted it on handouts to bankers, cronies like solyndra, there are billions the pentagon doesn't know what happened to, they just fell through the cracks. But heaven help you if you get a dollar more than you are supposed to, its off to jail. Steal billions, and you get to keep them.
The economy is as bad or worse than it was before obumble started fumbling around. All those trillions have tricked down not at all to the under employed, the newly poor, and the shrinking middle class. If that's your idea of success, I'd hate to see failure. Failure is coming and it will be hard to keep blaming it on shrub.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21811726 - 06/15/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wasted it on overseas wars that help us none when we are not attacked.
And how many of those $ had to be spent to get out of there? Everyone is screaming "O got us out too soon", fuck if he did and fucked if he didn't because the shrub fucked us all.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21811958 - 06/15/15 06:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>And how many of those $ had to be spent to get out of there? Everyone is screaming "O got us out too soon", fuck if he did and fucked if he didn't because the shrub fucked us all.
Who said "got us out too soon"? A leader is supposed to make decisions, his decision was to continue the wars. You want to know who negotiated the end to the Iraq blunder? Take a wild guess? No, it was not obumble, it was your favorite president shrub. Obumble reversed that and sent troops back in which of course you support because dems did it. Why do you support stupid wars like that? It does us no good.
The trillions that were wasted on Iraq and the other shit holes we are presently involved in, could have been spent here. Could have rebuilt our infrastructure and created tons of jobs. He would not have to lie about the unemployment, it would genuinely have been great. He would not have to lie and say the recession is over and things are good again, they would really have been good again. But he dumped it down a rat hole overseas to blow up innocent people, and you support that.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21812029 - 06/15/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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People, have no fear...... because it's......
HILLARY TO THE RESCUE!!!!! 
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21812083 - 06/15/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Who said "got us out too soon"? A leader is supposed to make decisions, his decision was to continue the wars. You want to know who negotiated the end to the Iraq blunder?
Yes I know.
Quote:
Obumble reversed that and sent troops back in which of course you support because dems did it. Why do you support stupid wars like that? It does us no good.
WHERE THE FUCK HAVE I EVER SUPPORTED ANY PART OF THAT WAR?
I have REPEATEDLY said they need to build a wall around the 'Sand Box' and let them all fight it out amongst themselves and the last country standing gets to name it whatever the fuck it wants.
Fuck a sand worm
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21813134 - 06/16/15 12:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: People, have no fear...... because it's......
HILLARY TO THE RESCUE!!!!! 

I hope she doesn't win if only for your benefit. I foresee a massive stroke for you if she wins.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21813220 - 06/16/15 01:13 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Le_Canard said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: People, have no fear...... because it's......
HILLARY TO THE RESCUE!!!!! 

I hope she doesn't win if only for your benefit. I foresee a massive stroke for you if she wins.
I'll vote for Bernie Sanders or Rand Paul rather than Hillary or Bush. we need a libertarian type whether it is conservative libertarian or a progressive one.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21813353 - 06/16/15 02:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, I'm not exactly thrilled with the prospect of Hillary for prez either.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21813771 - 06/16/15 08:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The power of the msm is behind her hence her front runner status.
I see one of the local rags is pushing Rubio and knocking jeb. They don't like Rubio a bit, its transparently obvious they are pushing him hoping to damage jeb who they see as the strong and likely gop candidate. They figure hill-billy can beat Rubio easily, thus explaining their false kindness to Rubio. If he got the nod, they would turn on him in an instant.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21814395 - 06/16/15 12:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
Le_Canard said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: People, have no fear...... because it's......
HILLARY TO THE RESCUE!!!!! 

I hope she doesn't win if only for your benefit. I foresee a massive stroke for you if she wins.
I'll vote for Bernie Sanders or Rand Paul rather than Hillary or Bush. we need a libertarian type whether it is conservative libertarian or a progressive one.
Bernie Sanders is not a libertarian.
--------------------
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21814688 - 06/16/15 01:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah progressive libertarian doesn't really exist exactly
libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Bernie is just "progressive" all around.
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21814896 - 06/16/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bernie's a socialist.
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wayworm


Registered: 12/07/14
Posts: 54
Last seen: 7 months, 23 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21815089 - 06/16/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Yeah progressive libertarian doesn't really exist exactly
libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Bernie is just "progressive" all around.
American Libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Historically, libertarians are actually socially and fiscally progressive. The ideology was co opted by the right to push a corporate agenda.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21815138 - 06/16/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, and marvel at how the majority of Americans agree with him on nearly every major issue.
--------------------
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21815167 - 06/16/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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He's got my vote, fuck Hillary.
If (when) she gets nominated it will be a hold your nose vote for her then.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21815276 - 06/16/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If she gets the nomination I just might vote R.
--------------------
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21815506 - 06/16/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>If (when) she gets nominated it will be a hold your nose vote for her then.
We already knew that. No matter how rotten someone is, the moonbats will vote for them if they have a D next to their name.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21815642 - 06/16/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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All the fucking wingnut candidate has to do is walking on water in front of me and I'll vote for him.
Simple enough.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21815677 - 06/16/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sweeper54 said: All the fucking wingnut candidate has to do is walking on water in front of me and I'll vote for him.
Simple enough.
And if he can't walk on water you vote for the hill-billy? That's fair, no one can say you are biased.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21815696 - 06/16/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You forgot the part about me holding my nose.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21815722 - 06/16/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sweeper54 said: You forgot the part about me holding my nose.
That makes it all good. Rob a bank but hold your nose, not a crime. Support assholes but hold your nose, makes it better. That wigger should have held her nose when she said she was black, then no harm no foul.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21816082 - 06/16/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stone, I've was a republican for the first half of my life, for the next quarter I went both ways and now I'm done with the pubs.
Unless of course there's the Walk on Water thing, and if he came do that, I'm thinking I should vote for him. And that don't include some trash fill cannel of toxic waste created by some pub back corporation.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21816091 - 06/16/15 07:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Like I said, you look to see if they have the D by the name and that's all you need to know. Ever thought about a third party? No, you are hooked on the 2 party game and will never break free.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: wayworm]
#21816121 - 06/16/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wayworm said:
Quote:
Shins said: Yeah progressive libertarian doesn't really exist exactly
libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Bernie is just "progressive" all around.
American Libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Historically, libertarians are actually socially and fiscally progressive. The ideology was co opted by the right to push a corporate agenda.
Historically capitalism, free markets, a bill of rights, constitution, and a limited republican government was progressive, Historically many countries were monarchys or other forms of authoritarianism.
Today it is considered conservative because society has regressed to where markets are not free, the bill of rights and constitution is ignored, and socialism/fascism has replaced a constitutional republic. Banks are the new monarchs and they collude with politicians and military. Citizens are to be bridled and shorn like sheep, but are given treats.in the form of socialism. <- not liberal; modern liberals stole the term and used to to describe governments that are regressive. Double speak cultural manipulation.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21816146 - 06/16/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
wayworm said:
Quote:
Shins said: Yeah progressive libertarian doesn't really exist exactly
libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Bernie is just "progressive" all around.
American Libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Historically, libertarians are actually socially and fiscally progressive. The ideology was co opted by the right to push a corporate agenda.
Historically capitalism, free markets, a bill of rights, constitution, and a limited republican government was progressive, Historically many countries were monarchys or other forms of authoritarianism.
Today it is considered conservative because society has regressed to where markets are not free, the bill of rights and constitution is ignored, and socialism/fascism has replaced a constitutional republic. Banks are the new monarchs and they collude with politicians and military. Citizens are to be bridled and shorn like sheep, but are given treats.in the form of socialism. <- not liberal; modern liberals stole the term and used to to describe governments that are regressive. Double speak cultural manipulation.
Words of brilliance. Everyone should read this each and every day.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21816528 - 06/16/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just like a bad STD... The TPP will be baaaaaaaackkk!!!
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: zorbman]
#21817950 - 06/17/15 07:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Where the hell is zappa?
I wonder what he thinks about our socialist communist president's free trade agenda getting thwarted by the progressive left.
--------------------
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21818193 - 06/17/15 08:36 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Where the hell is zappa?
I wonder what he thinks about our socialist communist president's free trade agenda getting thwarted by the progressive left.

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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21818673 - 06/17/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Where the hell is zappa?
In the Romper Room.
Water always seeks its own level.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,369
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 1 hour, 22 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: zorbman]
#21818786 - 06/17/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is he banned or he just stays away from this sub now?
--------------------
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wayworm


Registered: 12/07/14
Posts: 54
Last seen: 7 months, 23 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21819703 - 06/17/15 04:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
wayworm said:
Quote:
Shins said: Yeah progressive libertarian doesn't really exist exactly
libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Bernie is just "progressive" all around.
American Libertarians are socially progressive but fiscally conservative.
Historically, libertarians are actually socially and fiscally progressive. The ideology was co opted by the right to push a corporate agenda.
Historically capitalism, free markets, a bill of rights, constitution, and a limited republican government was progressive, Historically many countries were monarchys or other forms of authoritarianism.
Today it is considered conservative because society has regressed to where markets are not free, the bill of rights and constitution is ignored, and socialism/fascism has replaced a constitutional republic. Banks are the new monarchs and they collude with politicians and military. Citizens are to be bridled and shorn like sheep, but are given treats.in the form of socialism. <- not liberal; modern liberals stole the term and used to to describe governments that are regressive. Double speak cultural manipulation.
I don't really know what point you are trying to make, but the point I was trying to make is that libertarians are anti-capitalist and only these new American Libertarians are capitalist.
Edited by wayworm (06/17/15 04:38 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21821358 - 06/17/15 11:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: And the economy is in an even larger bubble than before.
Without the federal reserve constantly injecting billions of dollars into wall st. The whole ponzi econony will collapse.
Do you have any evidence that the Fed is investing in Wall Street?
Quote:
Shins said: instead of allowing the problems to be fixed, the fed has postponed the pain and made it worse for when the day of reckoning does come.
Why do you think there has to be a "day of reckoning"? Are you watching Alex Jones?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21821372 - 06/17/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: We just hit the same number of jobs as we did in 2007, that's 7 years just to get back to where we started, and that's not accounting for population growth.
Obama didn't start in 2007. He started at the end of 2008, and has made huge progress since then.
Quote:
qman said: We also have the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, another bad sign.
It's a sign that trickle down isn't working. Time to increase taxes on the rich.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: We just hit the same number of jobs as we did in 2007, that's 7 years just to get back to where we started, and that's not accounting for population growth.
Obama didn't start in 2007. He started at the end of 2008, and has made huge progress since then.
Quote:
qman said: We also have the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, another bad sign.
It's a sign that trickle down isn't working. Time to increase taxes on the rich.
Why are you defending Obama again? I just stated what the US economy has done job wise. For the record, I don't blame or applaud a President for the country's economic performance, why do you?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Time to increase taxes on the rich.
Time to collect taxes from the 50% of Americans that currently have a net payment of zero at the end of the year.
Time to fix the spending problem Congress suffers from. Cut spending drastically.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/18/15 11:50 AM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said: And the economy is in an even larger bubble than before.
Without the federal reserve constantly injecting billions of dollars into wall st. The whole ponzi econony will collapse.
Do you have any evidence that the Fed is investing in Wall Street?
Quote:
Shins said: instead of allowing the problems to be fixed, the fed has postponed the pain and made it worse for when the day of reckoning does come.
Why do you think there has to be a "day of reckoning"? Are you watching Alex Jones?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_market_operation
Low interest rates, low reserve ratios, etc. etc. All these are used to prop up "too big to fail" wall st.
You aren't really that ignoant are you? It figures.
If you want to know why wall st is so disproportionately rich you can blame the banking cartels and the neive keynsian socialists they use as tools to manipulate policy to their advantage.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21823129 - 06/18/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There will be a day of reckoning because our current economic path is unsustainable.
basically;
Raise interest rates and the economy will crash.
fail to raise interest rates and eventually the dollar will crash.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21826286 - 06/19/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said:
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BoldAsLove said: ...it's not nearly as bad as it was in 2008. Since Obama took office jobs, long term employment, and real weekly earnings are all up. Unemployment is down.... overall the economy seems to be doing much better than it was during the recession. Do you disagree?
We just hit the same number of jobs as we did in 2007, that's 7 years just to get back to where we started, and that's not accounting for population growth.
Obama didn't start in 2007. He started at the end of 2008, and has made huge progress since then.
Why are you defending Obama again?
Read the above discussion. The claim was that the economy is up under Obama, and you attempted to refute that claim. It IS up under Obama.
Quote:
qman said: For the record, I don't blame or applaud a President for the country's economic performance
Is that because democratic presidents have better track records with the economy than republican presidents?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21826297 - 06/19/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: We also have the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, another bad sign.
Time to increase taxes on the rich.
Time to collect taxes from the 50% of Americans that currently have a net payment of zero at the end of the year.
Your solution to fixing income inequality is to increase taxes on the poor?!? Brilliant!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21826320 - 06/19/15 12:30 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Shins said: Without the federal reserve constantly injecting billions of dollars into wall st. The whole ponzi econony will collapse.
Do you have any evidence that the Fed is investing in Wall Street?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_market_operation
Low interest rates, low reserve ratios, etc. etc. All these are used to prop up "too big to fail" wall st.
Ah, so they're not injecting billions into Wall St. They're passing policies that help business.
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Shins said: instead of allowing the problems to be fixed, the fed has postponed the pain and made it worse for when the day of reckoning does come.
Why do you think there has to be a "day of reckoning"? Are you watching Alex Jones?
There will be a day of reckoning because our current economic path is unsustainable.
basically;
Raise interest rates and the economy will crash.
Says who?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Your solution to fixing income inequality is to increase taxes on the poor?!?
If you eat the pie, you help pay for the pie.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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sweeper54



Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 20 hours
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21826859 - 06/19/15 06:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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And if you make them pay for the pie, you will have to pay something else for them.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said: Without the federal reserve constantly injecting billions of dollars into wall st. The whole ponzi econony will collapse.
Do you have any evidence that the Fed is investing in Wall Street?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_market_operation
Low interest rates, low reserve ratios, etc. etc. All these are used to prop up "too big to fail" wall st.
Ah, so they're not injecting billions into Wall St. They're passing policies that help business.
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said: instead of allowing the problems to be fixed, the fed has postponed the pain and made it worse for when the day of reckoning does come.
Why do you think there has to be a "day of reckoning"? Are you watching Alex Jones?
There will be a day of reckoning because our current economic path is unsustainable.
basically;
Raise interest rates and the economy will crash.
Says who?
Read the links. They are not "passing policy" your beloved federal reserve is injecting billions of dollars into wall st. And creating the wealth disparity you complain about. talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
says who? Anyone with half a brain. The economy cannot handle higher interest rates. The fed would have raised them already if it could
why am I not suprised that the hardcore socialist falcon appears to know next to nothing about economics and the finance system.
Duuuuurrrrr tax the rich!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21827111 - 06/19/15 08:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Ah, so they're not injecting billions into Wall St. They're passing policies that help business.
Read the links. They are not "passing policy" your beloved federal reserve is injecting billions of dollars into wall st.
I missed that part in both articles. Can you provide a quote from one of those articles that says the Fed is injecting billions into Wall St?
Quote:
Shins said: And creating the wealth disparity you complain about. talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
The wealth disparity is the result of business not passing their newly found profits down to their workers who helped earn them. And why would they? Minimum wage is way down, lowering the bar for everyone.
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said: Raise interest rates and the economy will crash.
Says who?
says who? Anyone with half a brain. The economy cannot handle higher interest rates. The fed would have raised them already if it could
Sigh. Why it that conservatives only have half a brain?
The Fed raises interest rates to prevent inflation. Inflation is still at historical lows, so there is no need to raise the interest rate, though that will change soon. And when it does, the economy will not crash, unless there is some other reason.
Quote:
Shins said: why am I not suprised that the hardcore socialist falcon appears to know next to nothing about economics and the finance system.
Duuuuurrrrr tax the rich!
I have a masters degree in business, and am explaining the subject for you. You simply make claims you are unable to back up.
Taxing the rich would help reduce the income gap, and decrease the burden on the poor at the same time. Instead of making a counter point, all you can say about that is "Duuuuurrrrr".
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: sweeper54]
#21827147 - 06/19/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
sweeper54 said: And if you make them pay for the pie, you will have to pay something else for them.
There's no need to pay for anything for "them".
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
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BoldAsLove said: ...it's not nearly as bad as it was in 2008. Since Obama took office jobs, long term employment, and real weekly earnings are all up. Unemployment is down.... overall the economy seems to be doing much better than it was during the recession. Do you disagree?
We just hit the same number of jobs as we did in 2007, that's 7 years just to get back to where we started, and that's not accounting for population growth.
Obama didn't start in 2007. He started at the end of 2008, and has made huge progress since then.
Why are you defending Obama again?
Read the above discussion. The claim was that the economy is up under Obama, and you attempted to refute that claim. It IS up under Obama.
Quote:
qman said: For the record, I don't blame or applaud a President for the country's economic performance
Is that because democratic presidents have better track records with the economy than republican presidents? 
I don't view the world as R vs D, I don't really care which party appears to have the better economic track record, it's meaningless in my opinion.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Ah, so they're not injecting billions into Wall St. They're passing policies that help business.
Read the links. They are not "passing policy" your beloved federal reserve is injecting billions of dollars into wall st.
I missed that part in both articles. Can you provide a quote from one of those articles that says the Fed is injecting billions into Wall St?
Quote:
Shins said: And creating the wealth disparity you complain about. talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
The wealth disparity is the result of business not passing their newly found profits down to their workers who helped earn them. And why would they? Minimum wage is way down, lowering the bar for everyone.
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Shins said: Raise interest rates and the economy will crash.
Says who?
says who? Anyone with half a brain. The economy cannot handle higher interest rates. The fed would have raised them already if it could
Sigh. Why it that conservatives only have half a brain?
The Fed raises interest rates to prevent inflation. Inflation is still at historical lows, so there is no need to raise the interest rate, though that will change soon. And when it does, the economy will not crash, unless there is some other reason.
Quote:
Shins said: why am I not suprised that the hardcore socialist falcon appears to know next to nothing about economics and the finance system.
Duuuuurrrrr tax the rich!
I have a masters degree in business, and am explaining the subject for you. You simply make claims you are unable to back up.
Taxing the rich would help reduce the income gap, and decrease the burden on the poor at the same time. Instead of making a counter point, all you can say about that is "Duuuuurrrrr".

Why do you think inflation will trend higher in the near future?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21827217 - 06/19/15 08:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Why do you think inflation will trend higher in the near future?
An improving economy would cause inflation.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Fal, you are just playing word games and using false numbers from your hero obumble. Unemployment is much much higher than he says and the economy is not doing well no matter what you may think.
>Taxing the rich would help reduce the income gap
So sayeth Vladimir (fal) lenin. Take from those who produce and redistribute to those who produce nothing. Your commie roots are showing again.
> It IS up under Obama.
The only thing up is the number of part time workers, a direct result of his stupid aca which thankfully will be shit canned soon. Next he is going to fuck us all over with the tpp, ttip tisa, and other alphabet horseshit he won't even let us see. It will be sprung on us like an ambush.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: Why do you think inflation will trend higher in the near future?
An improving economy would cause inflation.
So where is it? The latest GDP numbers hardly show a "improving economy".
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21827245 - 06/19/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I don't view the world as R vs D, I don't really care which party appears to have the better economic track record, it's meaningless in my opinion.
Here's an old map I continue to show:
 As you can see, the states in blue have a higher median income. Those are also predominantly liberal states.
If track records don't matter to you, then keep voting for failed policies.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I don't view the world as R vs D, I don't really care which party appears to have the better economic track record, it's meaningless in my opinion.
Here's an old map I continue to show:
 As you can see, the states in blue have a higher median income. Those are also predominantly liberal states.
If track records don't matter to you, then keep voting for failed policies. 
So all states are equal in nature and the only determining factor is whether a R or D is in office? 
Can your view of the world become anymore simplistic?
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21827272 - 06/19/15 09:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is plenty of inflation already, mostly in the stock / real estate markets.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Last seen: 2 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21827275 - 06/19/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: There is plenty of inflation already, mostly in the stock / real estate markets.
But the labor and commodity markets show nothing but weakness.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21827304 - 06/19/15 09:15 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heres the part falcon ignored;
"Quantitative easing (QE) is a type of monetary policy used by central banks to stimulate the economy when standard monetary policy has become ineffective.[1][2][3] A central bank implements quantitative easing by buying specified amounts of financial assets from commercial banks and other private institutions, thus raising the prices of those financial assets"
"A central bank enacts quantitative easing by purchasing—without reference to the interest rate—a set quantity of bonds or other financial assets on financial markets from private financial institutions."
"Capital flightEdit The new money could be used by the banks to invest in emerging markets, commodity-based economies, commodities themselves, and non-local opportunities rather than to lend to local businesses that are having difficulty getting loans." <- what is happening.
" Increased income and wealth inequalityEdit See also: Economic inequality According to CNBC's Robert Frank, a Bank of England report shows that its quantitative easing policies had benefited mainly the wealthy, and that 40% of those gains went to the richest 5% of British households.[96][97] Dhaval Joshi of BCA Research wrote that "QE cash ends up overwhelmingly in profits, thereby exacerbating already extreme income inequality and the consequent social tensions that arise from it".[97] Anthony Randazzo of the Reason Foundation wrote that QE "is fundamentally a regressive redistribution program that has been boosting wealth for those already engaged in the financial sector or those who already own homes, but passing little along to the rest of the economy. It is a primary driver of income inequality".
"In May 2013, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas President Richard Fisher said that cheap money has made rich people richer, but has not done quite as much for working Americans."
These socialists like falcon who support the federal reserve are the real ones resoonsible for income inequality. Allthewhile they go around championing the cause AGAINST income inequality. How can they have such conflicting positions? One must assume they are either stupid and blind or lying and malevolent.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21830065 - 06/19/15 09:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal, you are just playing word games and using false numbers from your hero obumble. Unemployment is much much higher than he says and the economy is not doing well no matter what you may think.
Nobody said the economy is doing well. But it is FAR better than when Bush was in office in 2008.
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Taxing the rich would help reduce the income gap
So sayeth Vladimir (fal) lenin. Take from those who produce and redistribute to those who produce nothing. Your commie roots are showing again.
Bullshit, that's dumb. Don't give to those that produce nothing. Give to those that work full time and are still living in poverty.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: qman]
#21830122 - 06/19/15 09:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I don't view the world as R vs D, I don't really care which party appears to have the better economic track record, it's meaningless in my opinion.
Here's an old map I continue to show:
 As you can see, the states in blue have a higher median income. Those are also predominantly liberal states.
If track records don't matter to you, then keep voting for failed policies. 
So all states are equal in nature and the only determining factor is whether a R or D is in office? 
Can your view of the world become anymore simplistic? 
Simplistic? We can observe that Democratic presidents do better than republican presidents and Democratic states do better than republican states. That's about as simplistic as saying we can observe that people who smoke more are more likely to get lung cancer. Perhaps there's more to it, but if so, you'll need to explain what other factors contribute to Democratic success.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21830172 - 06/19/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Heres the part falcon ignored;
"Quantitative easing (QE) is a type of monetary policy used by central banks to stimulate the economy when standard monetary policy has become ineffective. A central bank implements quantitative easing by buying specified amounts of financial assets from commercial banks and other private institutions, thus raising the prices of those financial assets"
"A central bank enacts quantitative easing by purchasing—without reference to the interest rate—a set quantity of bonds or other financial assets on financial markets from private financial institutions."
"Capital flightEdit The new money could be used by the banks to invest in emerging markets, commodity-based economies, commodities themselves, and non-local opportunities rather than to lend to local businesses that are having difficulty getting loans." <- what is happening.
I didn't ignore it. I agree with that completely. Now, where does it say the Fed invested billions on Wall St? Did you perhaps mean to say that the Feds loaned billions to banks?
Quote:
Shins said: According to CNBC's Robert Frank, a Bank of England report shows that its quantitative easing policies had benefited mainly the wealthy, and that 40% of those gains went to the richest 5% of British households.[96][97] Dhaval Joshi of BCA Research wrote that "QE cash ends up overwhelmingly in profits, thereby exacerbating already extreme income inequality and the consequent social tensions that arise from it".[97] Anthony Randazzo of the Reason Foundation wrote that QE "is fundamentally a regressive redistribution program that has been boosting wealth for those already engaged in the financial sector or those who already own homes, but passing little along to the rest of the economy. It is a primary driver of income inequality".
It has given lots of money to the wealthy, that's true. But it hasn't prevented them from passing it on to the people that helped them earn it. That problem must be solved by Congress.
Quote:
Shins said: These socialists like falcon who support the federal reserve are the real ones resoonsible for income inequality. Allthewhile they go around championing the cause AGAINST income inequality. How can they have such conflicting positions? One must assume they are either stupid and blind or lying and malevolent.
None of the above. The Fed has helped the ecomomy grow. It's not the Fed's job to ensure that businesses are fair about passing the money down to the people that helped them earn it. Congress has to step in and do things like pass minimum wage laws, increase taxes on the rich, and such, to help ensure everyone benefits from business' newfound success.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: I don't view the world as R vs D, I don't really care which party appears to have the better economic track record, it's meaningless in my opinion.
Here's an old map I continue to show:
 As you can see, the states in blue have a higher median income. Those are also predominantly liberal states.
If track records don't matter to you, then keep voting for failed policies. 
So all states are equal in nature and the only determining factor is whether a R or D is in office? 
Can your view of the world become anymore simplistic? 
http://www.ibtimes.com/fools-gold-california-has-highest-poverty-rate-united-states-1548707
You need to normalize income across the states to compare them, when you do, California sucks donkey balls. So does New York. Illinois.
Hey, that's the liberal big 3. Packed with rich elitists and high levels of poverty.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21831148 - 06/20/15 02:44 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: You need to normalize income across the states to compare them, when you do, California sucks donkey balls. So does New York. Illinois.
Hey, that's the liberal big 3. Packed with rich elitists and high levels of poverty.
You don't "need" to normalize it, though I get the argument. People living in California make twice as much, on average, as people living in Mississippi. That means they can afford to buy a home worth twice as much and sell it for twice as much when they retire, leaving them twice as much money for their retirement.
Sure they might not be able to live in as nice a home as the person in Mississippi, because Mississippi is so cheap, but they'll have more money left when they retire.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said: You need to normalize income across the states to compare them, when you do, California sucks donkey balls. So does New York. Illinois.
Hey, that's the liberal big 3. Packed with rich elitists and high levels of poverty.
You don't "need" to normalize it, though I get the argument. People living in California make twice as much, on average, as people living in Mississippi. That means they can afford to buy a home worth twice as much and sell it for twice as much when they retire, leaving them twice as much money for their retirement.
Sure they might not be able to live in as nice a home as the person in Mississippi, because Mississippi is so cheap, but they'll have more money left when they retire.
Isn't the vote going to the Senate next week for the TPA alone and if it gets 60 votes, it passes?
As for CA and what a house is "worth", the drought is going to reset that real estate bubble, and in a big way. Somehow the techno illogical there just don't get it, and still think there is a solution to no water, other than trucking it in.
Water is the next oil.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Loc: California, US
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: LunarEclipse]
#21831797 - 06/20/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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LunarEclipse said: As for CA and what a house is "worth", the drought is going to reset that real estate bubble, and in a big way. Somehow the techno illogical there just don't get it, and still think there is a solution to no water, other than trucking it in.
Water is the next oil.
No is going to go thirsty, and many people are converting their lawns to other types of landscaping. I just stared a project to replace my backyard lawn with a concrete patio. That backyard patio is an expensive project, and I suspect the value of my property will only go up as a result, because it will accommodate large backyard gatherings (I host a lot of large wine tasting events).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Fal, you regurgitate your left wing beliefs like reciting a catechism but that does not make them true.
>Nobody said the economy is doing well. But it is FAR better than when Bush was in office in 2008
False. The economy was cooking then, you do recall that there was a bubble that popped and the bottom dropped out in '09 don't you? The average of the economy was much better in 08 than now. You need to be a little skeptical when the cheerleader media tells you stories.
> Don't give to those that produce nothing. Give to those that work full time and are still living in poverty.
But your favored system of welfare gives to those who produce nothing and you want to keep the whole system but only change taxes on the rich to make them higher. Therefore, like I said, you want to take from those who produce and give to those who don't or who produce little. If obumble doesn't have a place for you in his administration, perhaps putin does?
>We can observe that Democratic presidents do better than republican presidents and Democratic states do better than republican states.
We observe nothing of the sort.
>The Fed has helped the ecomomy grow.
It has done nothing of the sort. Between the fed and your hero obumble, they have given the bulk of the stimulus to the rich and little to none has trickled down.
>Congress has to step in and do things like pass minimum wage laws, increase taxes on the rich, and such, to help ensure everyone benefits from business' newfound success.
Putin, lenin, castro, mao, all agree wholeheartedly. Meanwhile, business seeing that they will be sacrificed to help the socialists/ commies flees to other countries to survive leaving a service based economy. You commies then want to jack wages way up but then whine and cry when prices go up and demand more taxes leading to more business closing. We are in a downward spiral exactly because of policies like the ones you naively support.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
LunarEclipse said: As for CA and what a house is "worth", the drought is going to reset that real estate bubble, and in a big way. Somehow the techno illogical there just don't get it, and still think there is a solution to no water, other than trucking it in.
Water is the next oil.
No is going to go thirsty, and many people are converting their lawns to other types of landscaping. I just stared a project to replace my backyard lawn with a concrete patio. That backyard patio is an expensive project, and I suspect the value of my property will only go up as a result, because it will accommodate large backyard gatherings (I host a lot of large wine tasting events).
Just last week CA cut off senior water rights going back to 1903 in the hardest hit areas. The town of Mountain House is at risk for losing it's water supply completely as a result.
Converting your yard to concrete is a relative drop in the bucket when it comes to water use. Fracking, for example, is allowed to continue. No ban on that but it not only uses massive amounts of water, but contaminates the very aquifers that people will be relying on more as the snow pack doesn't come back enough even in a good year to make a difference.
Seriously, the canals from the delta is the best solution Jerry Brown can come up with even after 30+ years of trying, when the delta is fighting salinity as it is with levees that aren't in the greatest of shape?
Those reservoirs aren't filling back up even if everybody concretes their entire properties.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: LunarEclipse]
#21832702 - 06/20/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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LunarEclipse said: As for CA and what a house is "worth", the drought is going to reset that real estate bubble, and in a big way. Somehow the techno illogical there just don't get it, and still think there is a solution to no water, other than trucking it in.
Water is the next oil.
No is going to go thirsty, and many people are converting their lawns to other types of landscaping. I just stared a project to replace my backyard lawn with a concrete patio. That backyard patio is an expensive project, and I suspect the value of my property will only go up as a result, because it will accommodate large backyard gatherings (I host a lot of large wine tasting events).
Just last week CA cut off senior water rights going back to 1903 in the hardest hit areas. The town of Mountain House is at risk for losing it's water supply completely as a result.
Converting your yard to concrete is a relative drop in the bucket when it comes to water use. Fracking, for example, is allowed to continue. No ban on that but it not only uses massive amounts of water, but contaminates the very aquifers that people will be relying on more as the snow pack doesn't come back enough even in a good year to make a difference.
Seriously, the canals from the delta is the best solution Jerry Brown can come up with even after 30+ years of trying, when the delta is fighting salinity as it is with levees that aren't in the greatest of shape?
Those reservoirs aren't filling back up even if everybody concretes their entire properties.
yes they will. there was a drought in texas several years ago, now that state is floating away. the problem in california is 1) the government 2) to many people
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21835005 - 06/21/15 12:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Nobody said the economy is doing well. But it is FAR better than when Bush was in office in 2008
Fal, you regurgitate your left wing beliefs like reciting a catechism but that does not make them true.
The economy was cooking then, you do recall that there was a bubble that popped and the bottom dropped out in '09 don't you? The average of the economy was much better in 08 than now. You need to be a little skeptical when the cheerleader media tells you stories.
The bubble popped in 08 under Bush. Here's the evidence:
 I always back up my claims, but you can't back yours up, because there is no evidence showing the economy didn't tank in 2008.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Don't give to those that produce nothing. Give to those that work full time and are still living in poverty.
But your favored system of welfare gives to those who produce nothing and you want to keep the whole system but only change taxes on the rich to make them higher.
No, that's a straw man. I just told you "Don't give to those that produce nothing". Can you read?
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: We can observe that Democratic presidents do better than republican presidents and Democratic states do better than republican states.
We observe nothing of the sort.
I just provided you the evidence in two different graphs (one of income by state, the other of market performance by president). You've got nothing more than a statement based on ignorance.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The Fed has helped the ecomomy grow.
It has done nothing of the sort. Between the fed and your hero obumble, they have given the bulk of the stimulus to the rich and little to none has trickled down.
The money went to business. If they didn't share it with the people that helped earn it, that's the fault of Congress for not doing anything to get it there.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Congress has to step in and do things like pass minimum wage laws, increase taxes on the rich, and such, to help ensure everyone benefits from business' newfound success.
You commies want to jack wages way up but then whine and cry when prices go up
No, I don't whine and cry. I'm happy when people have more money.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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The economy really crashed in '09 not 08. That was when the stimulus money was supposed to fix things but he gave it to big banks and didn't require them to lend it so little got into the economy. You can't blame that on shrub, its was obumble's fumble.
What's that graph supposed to be, the stock market or something? You always bluff with your so called evidence so we have to examine it carefully. Much of the stimulus wound up in the market which helps few people. Under dems, the rich prosper but the poor people have to work part time.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21836705 - 06/21/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: The economy really crashed in '09 not 08.
No, it crashed in 2007-2008, as a simple Google search will confirm, and we felt the pain of that crash in 2009.
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Stonehenge said: That was when the stimulus money was supposed to fix things but he gave it to big banks and didn't require them to lend it so little got into the economy. You can't blame that on shrub, its was obumble's fumble.
That's like saying Bush gave us a ride in a luxury car, totalled the car, but it's Obama's fault for not immediately restoring the totaled car to like new conditions. Obama didn't crash the car, AND he ensured we could keep riding in it (the Depression was avoided).
Note - I don't even blame Bush for the crash that happened under his Presidency - it was Wall Street's fault.
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Stonehenge said: What's that graph supposed to be, the stock market or something? You always bluff with your so called evidence so we have to examine it carefully.
Yes, the stock market. If you have a chart showing the economy crashed in 2009, feel free to post it. I can't wait!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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>Yes, the stock market
So that's where you come up with the nonsense that the economy is doing so great, all because the stock market is up? More people out of work than ever before or having to take a part time job they can't even live on. I didn't realize you were on the side of the 1%
> I don't even blame Bush for the crash that happened under his Presidency - it was Wall Street's fault.
It started under Clinton and came to a head later. Again, all you seem to see is the stock market.
> we felt the pain of that crash in 2009.
Like I've been saying. Only now we have no real recovery, the stimulus was wasted. But since its not an actual depression you want to break out the party hats and praise obumble?
>That's like saying Bush gave us a ride in a luxury car, totalled the car, but it's Obama's fault for not immediately restoring the totaled car to like new condition
Its like saying Clinton fucked us over, shrub did the same and now obumble is doing it even more. Due to the inept management by those clowns, the car broke down. We paid for a brand new one, or a fleet of new ones, and instead obumble delivered a broken down junker and said "enjoy" while running off with the cash. You of course eat it up and joined the cheerleaders trying to con us into thinking happy days are here again. Wake up and smell the coffee.
When the financial system breaks down, inflation hits like a mack truck and they start saying the "D" word, I'm sure you will try to blame that on shrub too or maybe go back to Reagan and Nixon avoiding the reality of what a fuckup the current occupant has been. Maybe when you realize how horrible the ttp, ttip, tisa, and other crap is that your hero is clobbering us with, you might just possibly wise up. A tiny bit anyway. Stranger things have happened.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21836998 - 06/21/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
So that's where you come up with the nonsense that the economy is doing so great, all because the stock market is up? More people out of work than ever before or having to take a part time job they can't even live on. I didn't realize you were on the side of the 1%
Since Obama took office jobs and real weekly earnings are up, while unemployment has gone down.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/01/obamas-numbers-january-2015-update/
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21837151 - 06/21/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The figures are all cooked and only fools believe them. Or crooked politicians who pretend to believe them. The labor force participation is at its lowest rate in decades, going back to when women stayed home and men worked.
Wages have been flat or falling under obumble
http://www.epi.org/publication/stagnant-wages-in-2014/
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21837166 - 06/21/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Yes, the stock market
So that's where you come up with the nonsense that the economy is doing so great, all because the stock market is up?
Oh my lord, can you ever respond to what people actually say rather than making up a straw man? Here is what we said:
I'm not saying the economy is good right now, or that Wall Street didn't dip their hand in the taxpayers wallet, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in 2008. Things aren't nearly as good as they should be, but aren't nearly as bad as they were in 08. Nobody said the economy is doing well. But it is FAR better than when Bush was in office in 2008.
And I'll say it one more time for good measure in the hopes that you'll actually listen: No one thinks the economy is great right now, but it's far better than it was when Bush left office.
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't even blame Bush for the crash that happened under his Presidency - it was Wall Street's fault.
It started under Clinton and came to a head later. Again, all you seem to see is the stock market.
No, the economy was doing fabulous under Clinton. If you want to blame him for repealing Glass-Steagall at the end of his term, then yes, he is partly to blame for the future collapse of the economy.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: we felt the pain of that crash in 2009.
Only now we have no real recovery, the stimulus was wasted. But since its not an actual depression you want to break out the party hats and praise obumble?
But we ARE recovering. Everyone's been showing you links to prove it, and you haven't been able to counter it with anything but your own fantasies. Things aren't great, but they're far better than a depression. And yes, the Government deserves credit for preventing a disastrous depression which we know from past experience would have lasted until a massive stimulus bailed us out.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: That's like saying Bush gave us a ride in a luxury car, totalled the car, but it's Obama's fault for not immediately restoring the totaled car to like new condition
Its like saying Clinton fucked us over, shrub did the same and now obumble is doing it even more. Due to the inept management by those clowns, the car broke down. We paid for a brand new one, or a fleet of new ones, and instead obumble delivered a broken down junker.
If you believe the Government can restore things back to normal after a massive global collapse of the economy by snapping their fingers, you are deep in fantasy land.
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Stonehenge said: Maybe when you realize how horrible the ttp, ttip, tisa, and other crap is that your hero is clobbering us with, you might just possibly wise up.
I realize that these are bad. Please stop making up straw men.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/21/15 02:12 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21837191 - 06/21/15 02:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: The figures are all cooked and only fools believe them. Or crooked politicians who pretend to believe them. The labor force participation is at its lowest rate in decades, going back to when women stayed home and men worked.
Wages have been flat or falling under obumble
http://www.epi.org/publication/stagnant-wages-in-2014/
Do you realize business owners are making more than ever before? The problems you express are the result of Congress not doing anything to help get this wealth to the people that actually earned it. As I've said before, to fix the problems you just mentioned, Congress needs to implement things like minimum wage laws, higher taxes on the super wealthy, etc.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21837423 - 06/21/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >Yes, the stock market
So that's where you come up with the nonsense that the economy is doing so great, all because the stock market is up? More people out of work than ever before or having to take a part time job they can't even live on. I didn't realize you were on the side of the 1%Quote:
Stone, don't you see how great things are. Employment is 'up' I mean, FULL time employment and the labor participation rate is lower, but more people have low-wage service sector jobs, and more of the jobs overall are part time instead of full time, but hey, according to Nancy Pelosi that gives people more free time do do stuff.
Wages are down by around 5000 per family since Obama took office, but hey, the stock market is up so Big Investors, Big Banks, and Big Business are making money, so government tax revenues are at an all time high. Of course, individual taxes are up somewhat but, hey we are all one big happy collective family.
The number of people on welfare is way up under Obama but thats good, because people have food and shelter, so they dont need no stinkin' job. Oh, and 'everybody' has health care. It's more expensive, deductibles are much higher, and some people like me pay a few thousand dollars a year more for things, that way, the wealth can be transferred from people that have a little money to others without the government having to take the blame for raising taxes, so that is good.
Let's not forget foreign policy too. That is a real success under O. So who cares if we've lost Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, among others, to chaos and anarchy under radical madmen? After all, it's all bushes fault and hey, Obama got us out of Iraq. It's not Obama's fault that they are burning people alive, including women and children, torturing and raping kids, looting, etc. I mean, if we would have left some troops as was planned this wouldn't be happening but hey, Obama looks really good for pulling us out so fuck it.
Oh, one more thing about jobs--Stone, you must be a wingnut. You dont give Obama credit for all those jobs 'saved or created' You can't measure them but hey, if Obama hadn't given away trillions to big business and big banks, the system would have collapsed. 
Edited by starfire_xes (06/21/15 02:53 PM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Sigh... Vladimir (fal) lenin said
>But it is FAR better than when Bush was in office in 2008.
Shrub was in office for many years besides 08, quit with the straw man. Even in much of 08 it was good but you pick one spot and say 'see how bad it was'
>the economy was doing fabulous under Clinton. If you want to blame him for repealing Glass-Steagall at the end of his term, then yes, he is partly to blame for the future collapse of the economy.
"partly"??? he inherited a surplus from his predecessor, lets see who was that, some pub. He squandered the surplus, tried to take credit for it knowing a few fools would swallow that lie. He likes people who swallow. Glass steagall was a major treachery against the public, not his biggest, he was a traitor, thief and liar among other things.
>But we ARE recovering. Everyone's been showing you links to prove it, and you haven't been able to counter it with anything but your own fantasies
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/628-labor-force-participation-has-hovered-near-37-year-low-11-months 62.8%: Labor Force Participation Has Hovered Near 37-Year-Low for 11 Months
> Things aren't great, but they're far better than a depression. And yes, the Government deserves credit for preventing a disastrous depression
No depression so we should be dancing in the streets?
>...which we know from past experience would have lasted until a massive stimulus bailed us out.
8 trillion dollars isn't enough stimulus to bring us back to a robust economy? Any fool could have thrown that much money around and the economy would be booming. Almost any fool except a damn fool or a back stabber who gave it to the banks and the rich. Here you are rubber stamping his crimes whereas if a gop did it you would be screaming about it.
>I realize that these are bad (ttp, ttip, tisa, etc)
Oh, you will grudgingly admit they are "bad". You have no idea how bad, if not for wikileaks we would be completely in the dark. They are very very very bad. Who is pushing this crap? I want to hear you say it just once?
>Do you realize business owners are making more than ever before?
Who, Monsanto, apple, Microsoft, blackwater, the fortune 500? The average guy who you care nothing about is not doing so well. Your answer is let them eat cake. You have your job packing boxes or whatever and don't care about anyone else. That's the trouble with moonbats, they are all theory and ignore the reality on the ground.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21837481 - 06/21/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>Stone, don't you see how great things are. Employment is 'up' I mean, FULL time employment and the labor participation rate is lower, but more people have low-wage service sector jobs, and more of the jobs overall are part time instead of full time, but hey, according to Nancy Pelosi that gives people more free time do do stuff.
Yes, people don't need money to feed their families, they need more free time. Obumble has come through.
>Wages are down by around 5000 per family since Obama took office, but hey, the stock market is up so Big Investors, Big Banks, and Big Business are making money, so government tax revenues are at an all time high. Of course, individual taxes are up somewhat but, hey we are all one big happy collective family.
Fal wants taxes even higher, soak the rich until they flee to tax havens, that will fix everything. Actually, that is one reason we are struggling, big companies have relocated or merged to get offshore and not pay uncle sam a dime. Yeah, those higher taxes work great.
>The number of people on welfare is way up under Obama but thats good, because people have food and shelter, so they dont need no stinkin' job.
Here is where fal says income is up, no matter where it comes from or who has to pay the bill for moochers.
>Oh, and 'everybody' has health care. It's more expensive, deductibles are much higher, and some people like me pay a few thousand dollars a year more for things, that way, the wealth can be transferred from people that have a little money to others without the government having to take the blame for raising taxes, so that is good.
Yeah, putting a bunch of inept govt bureaucrats in charge of healthcare is a brilliant move. It never worked before, always leads to more corruption, inefficiency, and higher costs but maybe it will work this time when it never worked in the past? The 'bats think so. The people who have to pay the bill don't agree. Looks like scotus will scuttle it.
>Let's not forget foreign policy too. That is a real success under O. So who cares if we've lost Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, among others, to chaos and anarchy under radical madmen?
They used to proclaim that as his strong suit, the whole world loved him the media told us. Not so much any more. Iraq was stable under saddam, under obumble foreign policy care, 100x as many people get killed including americans, it costs us trillions and its unstable as hell. That is obumble's shining moment right there. He pulls disaster from the jaws of victory over and over.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21837834 - 06/21/15 04:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I once made a post, long ago, calling Obama 'The Shit Midas' maybe now is time to bring it back and say 'I told you so' because I think people raked me over the coals for it.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21838174 - 06/21/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: can you ever respond to what people actually say rather than making up a straw man? Here is what we said:
I'm not saying the economy is good right now, or that Wall Street didn't dip their hand in the taxpayers wallet, but it's not nearly as bad as it was in 2008. Things aren't nearly as good as they should be, but aren't nearly as bad as they were in 08. Nobody said the economy is doing well. But it is FAR better than when Bush was in office in 2008.
And I'll say it one more time for good measure in the hopes that you'll actually listen: No one thinks the economy is great right now, but it's far better than it was when Bush left office.
Shrub was in office for many years besides 08, quit with the straw man.
Wow, even after the lengthy explanation above, you still prove your inability to read. We all said the economy improved since Obama took over, and everyone proved that it did. The economy fell apart under Bush, and it's getting better now while Obama is President. There's no strawman here - no one made a false claim about what you said in order to knock it down.
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Stonehenge said: Even in much of 08 it was good but you pick one spot and say 'see how bad it was'
I guess you didn't read any of the links I provided above. The economy began to crash in 2007.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: the economy was doing fabulous under Clinton. If you want to blame him for repealing Glass-Steagall at the end of his term, then yes, he is partly to blame for the future collapse of the economy.
"partly"??? he inherited a surplus from his predecessor, lets see who was that, some pub. He squandered the surplus, tried to take credit for it knowing a few fools would swallow that lie.
Wow, you're really showing off your ignorance here. Actually, Clinton inherited a deficit and turned it into a surplus:

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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: But we ARE recovering. Everyone's been showing you links to prove it, and you haven't been able to counter it with anything but your own fantasies
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/ali-meyer/628-labor-force-participation-has-hovered-near-37-year-low-11-months 62.8%: Labor Force Participation Has Hovered Near 37-Year-Low for 11 Months
That's good news. The decrease, which started just after Bush took office, has finally stopped.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Things aren't great, but they're far better than a depression. And yes, the Government deserves credit for preventing a disastrous depression
No depression so we should be dancing in the streets?
I'm glad we dodged a great depression.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: which we know from past experience would have lasted until a massive stimulus bailed us out.
8 trillion dollars isn't enough stimulus to bring us back to a robust economy? Any fool could have thrown that much money around and the economy would be booming.
Once again, you brag about your ignorance. The stimulus wasn't even close to $8 trillion, and as you now know, that money prevented a Great Depression.
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Stonehenge said: ...gave it to the banks and the rich. Here you are rubber stamping his crimes whereas if a gop did it you would be screaming about it.
Wow, even more ignorance. The banks got loans, not free money. And I've argued many times, including this very thread, that Congress should do more to get the money to the middle class.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Do you realize business owners are making more than ever before? The problems you express are the result of Congress not doing anything to help get this wealth to the people that actually earned it. As I've said before, to fix the problems you just mentioned, Congress needs to implement things like minimum wage laws, higher taxes on the super wealthy, etc.
Who, Monsanto, apple, Microsoft, blackwater, the fortune 500? The average guy who you care nothing about is not doing so well.
Yes, that's what I just said. 
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Stonehenge said: Your answer is let them eat cake. You have your job packing boxes or whatever and don't care about anyone else. That's the trouble with moonbats, they are all theory and ignore the reality on the ground.
Once again, you prove your inability to read what I've said. I said Congress should be helping those people by increasing minimum wage, and increasing taxes on the rich to take the burden off the middle class.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21838189 - 06/21/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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starfire_xes said: I once made a post, long ago, calling Obama 'The Shit Midas' maybe now is time to bring it back and say 'I told you so' because I think people raked me over the coals for it.
Ah yes, the one where you said of Obama:
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Accomplishments: ZERO. Unless you like in your face facism and government rules being shoved up your ass.
Failures: I don't have the time to write a 650 page novel.
You had your ass handed to you in that thread.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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By the way, I honestly don't think Obama is a great President, because he panders too much to big money. I only defend him when people falsely accuse him of things.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Wow, fal, you used to be able to make intelligent sounding arguments even though you always lost in the end. Now you have descended to the word game level like enlil. This usually happens when you feel your back to the wall and are running out of ammo.
>We all said the economy improved since Obama took over, and everyone proved that it did.
No, we didn't all say that and it was not proven. You took one point on 08, a low point and used that as a reference and all you came up with was the stock market. We all know the market is doing well but not the man in the street. You keep ignoring that.
>The economy began to crash in 2007
Sez you. We could just as easily say the roots of the crash began in Clinton's term. Shrub was a dunce that has been already said.
>Clinton inherited a deficit and turned it into a surplus:
No such thing. You talk like he did it. All the bum did was spend every dollar he could and by luck a lot of money came in. If that had happened during a gop term, you would be twisting and squirming to show it was all due to the previous president. BTW it was a gop congress that produced the surplus, not the bum.
> The stimulus wasn't even close to $8 trillion, and as you now know, that money prevented a Great Depression.
The latest bum, obumbles, burned through much more than $8T. The national debt went up by that amount during his term so far. So he used up all that plus every dime that came in from taxes and so on. We had trillions in income during that time which all got spent plus we went into the hole by 8t. Are you now beginning to see the problem? Despite the biggest amount of spending in all of history, the economy is still limping along on life support. He not only spent more than any other president, he spent more than the last 2 or 3 combined.
If he had simply taken the money we wasted on overseas wars and handed it to every American, the economy would be booming. The bums would be broke again not being able to manage money, the rich would be richer and the average guy would be doing well, unlike now.
If he had taken a good chunk of that wasted money and spent it on infrastructure, the economy would be booming. Even a tard like bush could have spent the money better and he is a tard.
All you can come back with is lets raise taxes.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21839366 - 06/21/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said: Wow, fal, you used to be able to make intelligent sounding arguments even though you always lost in the end. Now you have descended to the word game level like enlil. This usually happens when you feel your back to the wall and are running out of ammo.
Nice try, but here are the points I've proven and that you've failed to back up:
When did the economy collapse? Falcon91Wolvrn03: In 2007 or 2008. Evidence. Stonehenge: Either under Clinton or in 2009. Evidence? None Do Democrats have better economic results? Falcon91Wolvrn03: Yes. Evidence: Income by state and stock market gains by president. Stonehenge: No. Evidence: None Did Clinton start or end with a surplus? Falcon91Wolvrn03: Started with a deficit ended with a surplus. Evidence: https://files.shroomery.org/files/15-001/039307895-DeficitGDP.jpg Stonehenge: Started with a surplus and ended with a deficit. Evidence: You actually admitted you were wrong on this, but insist that Democratic presidents shouldn't be credited for the country's successes, only its failures. Has the economy improved under Obama? Falcon91Wolvrn03: Yes. Evidence: Google Stonehenge: No. Evidence: Labor Force Participation is the only stat that matters, even though unemployment is way down.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: We all said the economy improved since Obama took over, and everyone proved that it did.
You took one point on 08, a low point and used that as a reference
When would you say Obama took over?!?!?
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Stonehenge said: We all know the market is doing well but not the man in the street. You keep ignoring that.
Quit lying. I've agreed with you on this many times, and said Congress needs to do something to ensure the money makes its way to Main Street.
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: The stimulus wasn't even close to $8 trillion, and as you now know, that money prevented a Great Depression.
The latest bum, obumbles, burned through much more than $8T.
At least you realize you lost this argument and are changing the topic from stimulus spending to total spending.
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Stonehenge said: Despite the biggest amount of spending in all of history, the economy is still limping along on life support.
The economy was headed for a disastrous Great Depression, which the spending prevented. More spending would have helped the economy more (though it would also mean more deficits, which no one wants).
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Stonehenge said: If he had simply taken the money we wasted on overseas wars and handed it to every American, the economy would be booming.
If he had taken a good chunk of that wasted money and spent it on infrastructure, the economy would be booming.
Agreed.
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Stonehenge said: All you can come back with is lets raise taxes.
You said in your last post above that "by luck a lot of money came in" for Clinton. It wasn't "luck" - Clinton raised taxes. It's basic economics.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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starfire_xes
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THere were two major hits in the economy during Bush and Obamas term. One hit was towards the end of 2001, and was due to a) 911 and the uncertainty caused. You can track the u6 and see that U6 went from 8% to 10%. After that, the economy gradually tracked better until 2008, in which a huge hit occured. THis was NOT because of the wars, or Bushes spending, but it was because of a) gamed rigged system, i.e. the banking crisis and b) game rigged system 2, i.e. the housing bubble.
a) the banking crisis, was one result of the housing bubble. The other part of it was due to faulty regulation, a large part due to both republican AND democratic congresses.
b) the main part of the housing crisis, was mainly the result of democrat pressure and policy on housing, and the denial by the democrats AND the federal reserve that we were in a dangerous situation. (Barney Frank was key in letting the housing crisis fester, as the chairman of the senate finance committee.)
So, the crash of 2009 was NOT obama's fault. However, the tepid recovery was the result of not having any sound fiscal policy besides SPEND MORE.
The economy IS in worse shape now, for whatever reason. The U6 is really the key indicator. You can argue that spending prevented a depression, I can argue that painful, and short term austerity would have brought the economy back much faster.
What we have had instead is a gradually weak, long drawn out partial recovery that has resulted in an expanded government and an expanded welfare state.
http://www.portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
The graph says it all. I would say the crashes are the result of congressional policy, the poor recovery is the result of Obama. THis is just a good a theory as 'oh, he prevented a depression' Thats nonsense.
Current economic theory is moving in the direction that Keynesian economics in terms of deficit spending is only good in the very short term. After that it is harmful to the economy.
By the way, Reagan used U6 as the official measure of unemployment, not the fake U3.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21840202 - 06/22/15 12:39 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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starfire_xes said: THere were two major hits in the economy during Bush and Obamas term. One hit was towards the end of 2001, and was due to a) 911 and the uncertainty caused. After that, the economy gradually tracked better until 2008, in which a huge hit occured. THis was NOT because of the wars, or Bushes spending, but it was because of a) gamed rigged system, i.e. the banking crisis and b) game rigged system 2, i.e. the housing bubble.
a) the banking crisis, was one result of the housing bubble. The other part of it was due to faulty regulation, a large part due to both republican AND democratic congresses.
I agree.
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starfire_xes said: b) the main part of the housing crisis, was mainly the result of democrat pressure and policy on housing
This has been proven wrong MANY times in this forum. There was no regulations on the banks to make subprime loans to regular people - the pressure came from a desire to make a quick dollar and then sell the loans.
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starfire_xes said: So, the crash of 2009 was NOT obama's fault. However, the tepid recovery was the result of not having any sound fiscal policy besides SPEND MORE.
So what's your solution for getting out of recession, if not spending more???
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starfire_xes said: The economy IS in worse shape now, for whatever reason. The U6 is really the key indicator. You can argue that spending prevented a depression, I can argue that painful, and short term austerity would have brought the economy back much faster.
Empirical evidence has proven that austerity doesn't work and spending does.
The Economic Argument Is Over Austerity vs Stimulus What Have We Learned About Austerity Since the Great Recession?
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starfire_xes said: What we have had instead is a gradually weak, long drawn out partial recovery that has resulted in an expanded government and an expanded welfare state.
The recovery is going FAR faster than during the Great Depression, because the Government stepped in early. And the Great Depression only ended because of a massive Government stimulus.
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starfire_xes said: http://www.portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
The graph says it all.
It sure does. It shows things have been getting better every year since 2009.
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starfire_xes said: I would say the crashes are the result of congressional policy, the poor recovery is the result of Obama. THis is just a good a theory as 'oh, he prevented a depression' Thats nonsense.
It's what leading economists say. Do you prefer what college dropouts say (Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, etc)?
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starfire_xes said: Current economic theory is moving in the direction that Keynesian economics in terms of deficit spending is only good in the very short term. After that it is harmful to the economy.
Because of the deficits that result from spending. That's why we need to increase taxes on the rich, so we're not all burdened by these high deficits.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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starfire_xes
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We need to close tax loopholes and cut spending is the answer. Why should the government grow at a rate several times greater than the inflation rate? You know what 'baseline budgeting' is? That is how the government has operated for years under both parties. Increase the federal budget 6% a year automatically.
What is the purpose of arbitrary tax increases on the rich? They already pay most of the taxes in the US.
And why doesnt government adjust its budget to its revenue? This goes on under democrats and R's alike.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21840379 - 06/22/15 01:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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starfire_xes said: What is the purpose of arbitrary tax increases on the rich? They already pay most of the taxes in the US.
It's to restore tax rates to what they were before Reagan slashed them and started the country down the deficit spending hole. Before he cut taxes, he should have figured out where to cut spending.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21840978 - 06/22/15 08:59 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: We need to close tax loopholes and cut spending is the answer. Why should the government grow at a rate several times greater than the inflation rate? You know what 'baseline budgeting' is? That is how the government has operated for years under both parties. Increase the federal budget 6% a year automatically.
What is the purpose of arbitrary tax increases on the rich? They already pay most of the taxes in the US.
And why doesnt government adjust its budget to its revenue? This goes on under democrats and R's alike.
I don't understand how you maintain this disconnect between "closing tax loopholes" and fighting against taxes on the rich.
Who do you think those loopholes serve? Who do you think created them? Whose share of the tax burden has been consistently falling?
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Stonehenge
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21841397 - 06/22/15 11:40 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fal having failed again, tries once more in hopes of scoring at least a point or two.
>Nice try, but here are the points I've proven and that you've failed to back up:
You have proved none of them, you give some blather, get corrected with facts, blather some more and then claim you proved something. Not even a nice try.
>At least you realize you lost this argument and are changing the topic from stimulus spending to total spending.
The argument was never just about stimulus spending so don't lie (again). You are the one who said spending boosts the economy. After some $12T or so of spending, more than any president in history which you admit by the fact you dodge the point, the economy is on life support, has not crashed yet but only the dizzy cheerleaders try to tell us its doing great.
The bum you constantly defend couldn't run a kool aid stand. You could pick a goof off the street and let him spend the money and our economy would be booming right now and most likely the goof would have spent some on infrastructure. Its not like many many wise people didn't tell obumble all this, he is not just a goof but an ultra goof. Like a fool and a damn fool.
>The recovery is going FAR faster than during the Great Depression, because the Government stepped in early
Again with the 'yay team' and ignoring facts. They didn't have trillions of dollars to throw around during the depression and by some measures, they did better than obumble. BTW, we weren't in a depression let alone a great one so you once again are desperately searching for straw arguments.
Then star tried to speak some sense to you but to no avail.
>starfire_xes said: b) the main part of the housing crisis, was mainly the result of democrat pressure and policy on housing
fal >This has been proven wrong MANY times in this forum. There was no regulations on the banks to make subprime loans to regular people - the pressure came from a desire to make a quick dollar and then sell the loans.
There was lots of pressure to make loans and congress did indeed stack the deck in favor of big banks. Yes, it was your favorite dems along with crooked r's who did things that way. When you tell banks you will take liar loans, substandard loans, etc and give full value for them, what do you expect them to do? Its like the store keeper says to the shifty character, "i'll turn my back while you handle the expensive stuff, we need to get rid of it anyway" Who is at fault, the thief or both?
>Because of the deficits that result from spending. That's why we need to increase taxes on the rich, so we're not all burdened by these high deficits.
Again with the dizzy moonbat commie nonsense.
star >We need to close tax loopholes and cut spending is the answer. Why should the government grow at a rate several times greater than the inflation rate?
Of course, this is obvious to anyone with even a basic grasp of economics. I'd say even many elementary school children would see it as obvious. Quit drinking the kool aid, fal, and get real.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Nice try, but here are the points I've proven and that you've failed to back up:
When did the economy collapse? Falcon91Wolvrn03: In 2007 or 2008. Evidence. Stonehenge: Either under Clinton or in 2009. Evidence? None Do Democrats have better economic results? Falcon91Wolvrn03: Yes. Evidence: Income by state and stock market gains by president. Stonehenge: No. Evidence: None Did Clinton start or end with a surplus? Falcon91Wolvrn03: Started with a deficit ended with a surplus. Evidence: https://files.shroomery.org/files/15-001/039307895-DeficitGDP.jpg Stonehenge: Started with a surplus and ended with a deficit. Evidence: You actually admitted you were wrong on this, but insist that Democratic presidents shouldn't be credited for the country's successes, only its failures. Has the economy improved under Obama? Falcon91Wolvrn03: Yes. Evidence: Google Stonehenge: No. Evidence: Labor Force Participation is the only stat that matters, even though unemployment is way down.
You have proved none of them, you give some blather, get corrected with facts, blather some more and then claim you proved something. Not even a nice try.
Let's analyze this one point at a time, starting with when the economy collapsed. I provided Google results for "did the economy crash in 2009?". ALL the results confirmed the crash began in 2007-2008. Yet you call this "blather". Why do you believe every news article that exists on this topic is wrong?
You said I was "corrected with facts". What facts did you present showing the collapse started in 2009?
We'll move to the nextpoints once you answer these questions.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
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You give an excellent example of blather in your last post. The point was never when the economy collapsed, it was in 09. The start of it was way back in the setting up of the deal where the govt buys dirty paper from the banks. This lead to the r/e bubble and meltdown which in domino fashion brought down the rest of the economy. Do you deny any of that? You are so fanatically focused on saying it started in bush's term over and over that you lose sight of the whole situation.
Its good to focus on one point because you usually spew out so much misinformation along with a bit of good info that its hard to totally demolish one before another pops up.
If it makes you feel better, i'll repeat what I said before that shrub was a dunce and a no good president. He got us into Iraq on false pretenses, he did however negotiate the pullout which the "peace" president promptly ripped up and sent troops back in and also to many other places but that is getting off topic.
As far as bad presidents go, we've had a run of them, its really hard to rank them but obumble arguably has done more damage to the country than any other. Are you working on your defence of obumble when the economy really does crash? Who will you blame it on, shrub, Reagan, or maybe Donald trump? It couldn't have anything to do with the incompetent boob could it? But that really is getting too far ahead.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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starfire_xes
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21842924 - 06/22/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Raising taxes on the rich is so great that France scuttled their Millionaires Tax in January.
In your face, I told you so post coming up.....
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21843725 - 06/22/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Stonehenge said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Let's analyze this one point at a time, starting with when the economy collapsed. I provided Google results for "did the economy crash in 2009?". ALL the results confirmed the crash began in 2007-2008. Yet you call this "blather". Why do you believe every news article that exists on this topic is wrong?
You said I was "corrected with facts". What facts did you present showing the collapse started in 2009?
We'll move to the next points once you answer these questions.
You give an excellent example of blather in your last post. The point was never when the economy collapsed, it was in 09.
I'll ask you again: What facts did you present showing the collapse started in 2009?
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Stonehenge said: Its good to focus on one point because you usually spew out so much misinformation along with a bit of good info that its hard to totally demolish one before another pops up.
That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm showing you were wrong on every single point, starting with the first one.
Now, show us evidence the economy collapsed in 2009, as I've shown it collapsed in 2007-2008, and then we'll move on to the next point.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21843866 - 06/22/15 10:41 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: Raising taxes on the rich is so great that France scuttled their Millionaires Tax in January.
In your face, I told you so post coming up.....

Who here favored a 75% tax rate? That's crazy.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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You think those feeble rhetorical tricks will get you out of the corner you find yourself in?
>What facts did you present showing the collapse started in 2009?
I never said that. Once again you flog the straw man and pretend you won a great battle. As a matter of fact I said it started way before that when your fellow moon beams were passing laws rubber stamping the buying of any sort of mortgages with no checks into the validity of grossly inflated appraisals, straw buyers, liar loans and so on.
You see how easily you got bested once again? You were disproved on every thing you brought up. You always use the same tricks so it becomes just that easy.
>Who here favored a 75% tax rate? That's crazy.
What top rate do you want, Vladimir?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21844052 - 06/22/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: What facts did you present showing the collapse started in 2009?
I never said that. Once again you flog the straw man
Here is what you said:
The economy really crashed in '09 not 08. The point was never when the economy collapsed, it was in 09.
Should I move to the next point, or should I spare you the embarrassment?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21844397 - 06/23/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: As far as bad presidents go, we've had a run of them, its really hard to rank them but obumble arguably has done more damage to the country than any other.
Based on what would you argue that Obama has caused the most damage? How are you measuring that?
Personally, off the top of my head, I think the following three presidents were much much more damaging (although I'm sure there are more):
Hoover-Basically caused the Great Depression, or at the very least did nothing effective to stop it. The massive shanty towns that housed hundreds of thousands of newly homeless workers were named after him. Worldwide GDP fell by 15% and approximately 1 in 4 Americans were unemployed.
Buchanan- He was president before the civil war and despite his efforts, could not do anything to prevent the war from happening. Even as the war had already started, he still seemed to deny the inevitability of it and blamed it on fanaticals. His handling of the situation alienated both sides.
Johnson-Completely botched the issue after the war. After Lincoln was assassinated, he took over and made a massive mess of reconstruction. He told the southern states to go back to holding their own elections to reform their civil governments. They, of course, elected their old leaders who passed Black Codes to take rights from the newly freed slaves. Congress, was not happy with this, and passed laws to countering the actions, but Johnson, who opposed the 14th amendment, vetoed the shit out of everything. This created a huge rift between him and Congress, eventually culminating in his impeachment.
So, I'm curious, why do you think Obama has done more damage to the country than presidents who caused the Great Depression, the Civil War, and who strongly attempted to prevent blacks from having almost any rights at all?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21844615 - 06/23/15 03:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There seems to be many who feel that anything Obama does is intrinsically bad, no matter what it is. Witness the furor over the preservation of Net Neutrality we had in the Pub a few months back.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21844670 - 06/23/15 04:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That net neutrality thing was hilarious. I couldn't believe so many people would oppose it, on an Internet forum nonetheless!
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21845148 - 06/23/15 08:34 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not sure what the surprise was for you. There are those, myself among them, that feel the issue was none of the governments business. The issue should have remained the business of the ISP's.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Fal, your points have fallen apart and you went from claiming I said the economy "started" to crash in 09 from your last post to now talking about when the crash hit. Yes, I think the crash was most apparent in 09 and started well before that when the govt began taking all that bad paper.
The stock market fell to its low point in 09, I believe it was. Previously you used the market as some sort of evidence that we are doing great right now. Therefore, you should quickly agree that 09 was its low point. What are you trying to say now?
>Should I move to the next point
Since you seem to have no point here, perhaps move on to where you do have one? What are you trying to tell us, that we are doing great now? That has been thoroughly debunked. That the stock market is doing well? Sure but so what, what has that to do with the economy in general?
At one time you were trying to convince us higher taxes is the answer. You ignore the fact that spending more than we make is the problem, no matter how much comes in, the drunken bums in govt spend it and trillions more. Try to decide what your point is and make some sort of coherent argument to support it. You used to be able to do that.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21845254 - 06/23/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: I'm not sure what the surprise was for you. There are those, myself among them, that feel the issue was none of the governments business. The issue should have remained the business of the ISP's.
It's off topic for this thread, but I was surprised that people were interested in allowing the ISPs to continue offering a piss-poor product, while maintaining their monopoly and charging consumers to access the content that they are charging the providers to deliver. I don't see how net neutrality could do anything but help make the internet faster, cheaper, and more reliable.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: BoldAsLove]
#21845461 - 06/23/15 10:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's their product to offer at terms they choose. Other than products or terms that directly harm others, government has no place involving themselves.
I don't decide on my stance depending on whether something is good for me personally. I first think about the right and wrong of it. Government telling a business how to operate, is wrong.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21845610 - 06/23/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: It's their product to offer at terms they choose. Other than products or terms that directly harm others, government has no place involving themselves.
I don't decide on my stance depending on whether something is good for me personally. I first think about the right and wrong of it. Government telling a business how to operate, is wrong.
That is true. One thing I would add is they need to make it easier for start ups to compete with established providers. Some progress has been made in that area.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21845647 - 06/23/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Astral Pain]
#21845720 - 06/23/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not yet. It was a test vote. The actual vote tomorrow (Wednesday).
Quote:
The Senate on Tuesday voted to advance President Obama’s trade agenda, approving a measure to end debate on fast-track authority.
The 60-37 motion sets up a vote on final passage on Wednesday. If the Senate approves fast-track or trade promotion authority (TPA), it would then be sent to Obama’s desk to become law.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/245827-senate-advances-fast-track-trade-bill-for-obama
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21845757 - 06/23/15 12:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: There are those, myself among them, that feel the issue was none of the governments business. The issue should have remained the business of the ISP's.
I was surprised that people were interested in allowing the ISPs to continue offering a piss-poor product, while maintaining their monopoly and charging consumers to access the content that they are charging the providers to deliver. I don't see how net neutrality could do anything but help make the internet faster, cheaper, and more reliable.
It's their product to offer at terms they choose.
I don't decide on my stance depending on whether something is good for me personally.
Luvdemshrooms always boasts how he's willing to sacrifice his own lifestyle (and that of the rest of the country) for the good of the super wealthy, because to him that beats allowing the Government make our lives better.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Actually, I say that because it's true. Right... wrong... it matters to me.
Now, got anything less childish to say?
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21845851 - 06/23/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Here is what you said:
The economy really crashed in '09 not 08. The point was never when the economy collapsed, it was in 09.
Fal, your points have fallen apart and you went from claiming I said the economy "started" to crash in 09 from your last post to now talking about when the crash hit. Yes, I think the crash was most apparent in 09 and started well before that
Great. So you finally agree the economic collapse WASN'T started under Obama, as you claimed in the links I quoted above. I already said we felt the pain of the crash that occurred under Bush in 2009. So you're agreeing with me now.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: What are you trying to tell us, that we are doing great now? That has been thoroughly debunked.
You have a reading comprehension problem the likes I've never seen before. I already explained that's not the case here. Can you stop making things up just for once and stick with what was actually said? Nevermind. If I have to explain something for the 3rd time in one thread, you obviously are incapable of listening to what people actually say.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Poor fal, he realizes his argument has fallen to pieces and now can only quibble about the tiniest things.
>Great. So you finally agree the economic collapse WASN'T started under Obama
I never said he was the author of the collapse, another straw man. However, it did occur on his watch. You keep harping on the fact it was not all his fault ignoring the reality that he has done little to help us and in fact wasted our resources on stupid shit.
Can you deny that virtually any idiot could have spent that massive amount of money better than o'stumbles?
Another question you have been running away from is how much should the max tax rate be? You call for higher taxes on the "rich" so how high should it be?
You did indeed tell us we are doing much better but when questioned about it, you go to childish insults and dodge the questions again. Are we doing better now and is the recession over?
One more question to run from, do you believe the bogus employment figures your master gives us? What then is your explanation for us having the lowest labor force participation in decades?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Astral Pain
Strange

Registered: 11/10/14
Posts: 2,923
Loc: Chicago
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21845956 - 06/23/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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A warning shot. In other countries there would be a million protesters mobbing the capitol but here most couldn't spell TPP if they had even heard of it. It's a goddamn shame.
-------------------- "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out" -Bill Hicks-
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21846101 - 06/23/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Poor fal, he realizes his argument has fallen to pieces and now can only quibble about the tiniest things.
You keep saying that, and it means nothing without you backing it up. You also keep changing your position as you learn you're wrong, and you keep lying about other people's position so you can attack it, as I repeatedly show you. Here are a few questions to get us back on track. Let us know your current position, because it keeps changing:
1. In what year did the US economic collapse occur? 2. Is the US economy better now than when Obama took office?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Astral Pain]
#21846139 - 06/23/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Astral Pain said: A warning shot. In other countries there would be a million protesters mobbing the capitol but here most couldn't spell TPP if they had even heard of it. It's a goddamn shame.
Most are too busy watching "reality" shows to even care.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Poor poor fal, his meltdown continues. He ignores all the tough questions no matter how many times they are asked. His questions have been answered over and over and are irrelevant but he keeps pounding away rather than discuss anything intelligently. Its sad. I will have to include him as one of those who it is pointless to reply to.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21846249 - 06/23/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Poor poor fal, his meltdown continues. He ignores all the tough questions no matter how many times they are asked. His questions have been answered over and over and are irrelevant but he keeps pounding away rather than discuss anything intelligently. Its sad. I will have to include him as one of those who it is pointless to reply to.
 The irony of your last post is completely lost on you.
Can you answer the questions:
1. In what year did the US economic collapse occur? 2. Is the US economy better now than when Obama took office?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#21846769 - 06/23/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Not yet. It was a test vote. The actual vote tomorrow (Wednesday).
Quote:
The Senate on Tuesday voted to advance President Obama’s trade agenda, approving a measure to end debate on fast-track authority.
The 60-37 motion sets up a vote on final passage on Wednesday. If the Senate approves fast-track or trade promotion authority (TPA), it would then be sent to Obama’s desk to become law.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/245827-senate-advances-fast-track-trade-bill-for-obama
Damn. I really hope this gets shot down. This will do no one but corporate fatcats any good.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21846779 - 06/23/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The media is mum on it or spouts propaganda that its a good thing. We used to be an open society where people could follow what the politicians were doing but now they vote on secret bills that we can't even read after they are passed. 1984 is here.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21847400 - 06/23/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Le_Canard said: There seems to be many who feel that anything Obama does is intrinsically bad, no matter what it is. Witness the furor over the preservation of Net Neutrality we had in the Pub a few months back.
I TOLD YOU SO IN YOUR FACE post about net neutrality coming up....its a good one.
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: allowing the Government make our lives better. 
"Allowing the Government make our lives better." Oh,God, that's a great one FAL!!!
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21847615 - 06/23/15 08:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: allowing the Government make our lives better. 
"Allowing the Government make our lives better." Oh,God, that's a great one FAL!!!

Perhaps you don't care about a strong middle class, clean air, a safe workplace, etc, but most other people like those things.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21847627 - 06/23/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fal doesn't care about pure food, transparency in govt, or the fact they have steadily whittled away at the middle class.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21847664 - 06/23/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Fal doesn't care about pure food, transparency in govt, or the fact they have steadily whittled away at the middle class.
Of course I care about those things, why do you say I don't? Can you not make a straw man argument for just one post?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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"pure food" The govt has blocked labeling for gmo's, allowed many harmful substances in our food supply including roundup, aspartame and other junk.
"transparency in govt" That should be a gimme, obumble has blocked or denied more foia requests than any other pres, his promise of transparency was a lie. The tpp he is pushing is secret. Must I go on?
"they have steadily whittled away at the middle class." The middle class is shrinking, there have been many reports on that.
And you support big govt. This is too easy.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21847774 - 06/23/15 08:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: "pure food" The govt has blocked labeling for gmo's, allowed many harmful substances in our food supply including roundup, aspartame and other junk.
"transparency in govt" That should be a gimme, obumble has blocked or denied more foia requests than any other pres, his promise of transparency was a lie. The tpp he is pushing is secret. Must I go on?
"they have steadily whittled away at the middle class." The middle class is shrinking, there have been many reports on that.
And you support big govt. This is too easy.
You have to allow the government to 'Make our lives better"
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21847781 - 06/23/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: "pure food" The govt has blocked labeling for gmo's, allowed many harmful substances in our food supply including roundup, aspartame and other junk.
No, the Government has NOT blocked labeling for gmo's. I agree it should do more to ban harmful substances in our food, but right it's catering to free markets.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: "transparency in govt" That should be a gimme, obumble has blocked or denied more foia requests than any other pres, his promise of transparency was a lie. The tpp he is pushing is secret. Must I go on?
I agree; government is kissing big business ass and favoring free markets by pushing tpp.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: "they have steadily whittled away at the middle class." The middle class is shrinking, there have been many reports on that.
I agree again - the Government is stepping back from its role of ensuring a high minimum wage, and allowing free markets to take their course.
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Stonehenge said: And you support big govt. This is too easy.
EXACTLY! We need Government to step back into its role of protecting Main St.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21847785 - 06/23/15 09:02 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfire_xes said: You have to allow the government to 'Make our lives better" 
I don't know why you're laughing - he just made a compelling case for the return of big government.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Douglas Howard
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All I have to say is that Cuba better watch out for wolves bearing gifts.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Douglas Howard]
#21848344 - 06/23/15 11:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not generally a fan a Jesse Ventura, but I completely agree with him on this.
PS - what's that picture on his shirt?
EDIT: I just figured it out - it's Jimmy Hendrix!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/24/15 12:06 AM)
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
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Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
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agreed
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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You are getting a little bit more reasonable. You agree with the obvious but come to the same wrong conclusion that we need more govt control over our lives.
>No, the Government has NOT blocked labeling for gmo's.
Actually, there is a bill to do just that in congress. Some states have already blocked labeling at the state level.
>I agree it should do more to ban harmful substances in our food, but right it's catering to free markets.
Its taking bribes and approving anything that doesn't kill you right away. If it kills you in 20 years they don't care "the lab rats lived for 3 months with no problems"
>I don't know why you're laughing - he just made a compelling case for the return of big government.
Far from it. The only things I want govt to do is defend the homeland, stop nasty chems in food, pave the roads and not too much else. To you, govt constantly growing and consuming more of the economy is a good thing along with them spying on us and telling us what to do and what we are not allowed to do. More reasonable people think govt needs to be pruned back severely and soon.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


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Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21849359 - 06/24/15 08:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Actually, there is a bill to do just that in congress. Some states have already blocked labeling at the state level.
Which states? I hadn't haven't heard of a state not allowing GMO products to be labeled, but I'd be strongly against that if it is true.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21850862 - 06/24/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: You agree with the obvious but come to the same wrong conclusion that we need more govt control over our lives.
Is a requirement for businesses to label GMOs more or less Government? Is a requirement to ban unhealthy additives in food more or less Government? Is the free trade being proposed under TPP more or less Government? Is middle class boosting legislation more or less Government? Is regulation of Wall Street to prevent financial disasters more or less Government?
These are all things you claim to support, yet you say you're against Government intervention. 
Quote:
Stonehenge said: The only things I want govt to do is defend the homeland, stop nasty chems in food, pave the roads and not too much else.
We're in agreement. The list above is all more Government.
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Stonehenge said: To you, govt constantly growing and consuming more of the economy is a good thing along with them spying on us and telling us what to do and what we are not allowed to do. More reasonable people think govt needs to be pruned back severely and soon.
God damnit, stop with the straw man arguments. I've never said any of the above.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (06/24/15 03:41 PM)
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Quote:
Is deregulating of Wall Street more or less Government?
how is this more government?
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21851093 - 06/24/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's less. I should have said:
"Is regulation of Wall Street to prevent financial disasters more or less Government?"
to be consistent with my other bullet points.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
>Is a requirement for businesses to label GMOs more or less Government?
Its a simple regulation we already have those sort of regulations in place therefore no need for "more" govt
>Is a requirement to ban unhealthy additives in food more or less Government?
See above answer
>Is the free trade being proposed under TPP more or less Government?
How would anyone know, your hero keeps it secret but I believe its almost certainly more govt.
>Is middle class boosting legislation more or less Government?
Depends on what you are talking about.
>Is regulation of Wall Street to prevent financial disasters more or less Government?
We have that in place already, just the wrong rules
>These are all things you claim to support, yet you say you're against Government intervention.
i never said i was in favor of the tpp, stop lying. I said I was against govt intervention in our personal lives like forbidding pot. You know that very well but always play the straw game
Quote:
Stonehenge said: The only things I want govt to do is defend the homeland, stop nasty chems in food, pave the roads and not too much else.
>We're in agreement. The list above is all more Government.
"more"? again you say more but we can do all that with less govt. More of the false statements.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: To you, govt constantly growing and consuming more of the economy is a good thing along with them spying on us and telling us what to do and what we are not allowed to do. More reasonable people think govt needs to be pruned back severely and soon.
And that is still true. You want govt to rape us even more on taxes, I want less taxes and just the bare necessities. You want govt to dictate wages, which is further interference in business and our lives.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21852263 - 06/24/15 08:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Is a requirement for businesses to label GMOs more or less Government? Is a requirement to ban unhealthy additives in food more or less Government? Is regulation of Wall Street to prevent financial disasters more or less Government?
Its a simple regulation we already have those sort of regulations in place therefore no need for "more" govt
See poll below.
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Stonehenge said: i never said i was in favor of the tpp, stop lying.
I know you're against the tpp free trade agreement, which is why I asked if opposing free trade is more or less Government.
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: The only things I want govt to do is defend the homeland, stop nasty chems in food, pave the roads and not too much else.
We're in agreement. The list above is all more Government.
"more"? again you say more but we can do all that with less govt. More of the false statements.
See poll below.
Quote:
Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: To you, govt constantly growing and consuming more of the economy is a good thing along with them spying on us and telling us what to do and what we are not allowed to do. More reasonable people think govt needs to be pruned back severely and soon.
God damnit, stop with the straw man arguments. I've never said any of the above.
You want govt to rape us even more on taxes... You want govt to dictate wages...
Which is neither syping nor dictating what individuals are allowed to do in their private lives. Stop changing the argument to a straw man.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



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I don't understand this despisement of government. Sure, there are things wrong with government. Republicans have been hard at work to make government as dysfunctional as possible so they can say, 'hey look, government doesn't work, lets get rid of it!'
Government can work just fine, if you don't have an uneducated public voting for people like John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Sarah Palin, George H.W. Bush, Ted Cruz, Michelle Bachman, Rick Perry, Donald Trump, and on and on and on. These people aren't fit to run a whorehouse, though they involuntarily prostitute the American people regularly!
The biggest part of this big government is the exhorbitant military expenditure that has gotten WAY out of control, but right wingers wanna cut wages, take food out of impoverished children's mouths, and take away grannies social security check. Oh, and forget about our infrastructure, we're too busy rebuilding the middle east.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
Edited by Bigbadwooof (06/24/15 11:51 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21853180 - 06/24/15 11:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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The lameness is getting deep in here.
Fal, that last rant is a showcase of your usual tricks. You dodge any tough questions, you zero in on one thing you demand we talk about so you don't have to talk about anything else. Who are you to dictate what must be answered when you are the worst in the shroomery about answering questions?
I'm still waiting for an apology for saying I supported the tpp when you knew very well I didn't.
Woof, I knew you were on the extreme left but I thought you were reasonable. Why did you attack me? What makes you think the dems are good guys? Do you think the tpp is getting passed without dem votes? Do you think they don't support the wars we have going on?
>The biggest part of this big government is the exhorbitant military expenditure that has gotten WAY out of control
Helloooo, wake up and realize its been obumble pushing war since he got in. I'm not defending gop, they and the dems are the problem. Its one party with two sides, sort of like good guys vs bad guys in wrestling. They put on a show to distract you while they both push for war and other stupid shit.
> but right wingers wanna cut wages, take food out of impoverished children's mouths, and take away grannies social security check.
I missed you link to the bill they are trying to pass doing all that.
>Oh, and forget about our infrastructure, we're too busy rebuilding the middle east
Yeah, that right winger obumble needs to get the message. Funny how you always give him a free pass on everything.
I need to put both you fanatics on ignore. I can't get a single word of sense out of either one. You have both gone over the edge. Bye.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21854420 - 06/25/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: The lameness is getting deep in here.
Fal, that last rant is a showcase of your usual tricks. You dodge any tough questions, you zero in on one thing you demand we talk about so you don't have to talk about anything else. Who are you to dictate what must be answered when you are the worst in the shroomery about answering questions?
I point out all the many things you get wrong. Rather than responding to my points, you just say "fal is up to his old tricks again". Since you constantly dodge my points, I tried a new approach of focusing on one point at a time. I see that's too intense for you, and you're crying like a baby.
Now, I'll ask you for the last time (and don't dodge this): what tough questions have I dodged that you'd like me answer for you? I'll answer them for you, even though you're dodging my questions.
Quote:
Stonehenge said: I'm still waiting for an apology for saying I supported the tpp when you knew very well I didn't.
I know you don't support it, and I never said you did. I clarified that for you above. Here it is again since you are such a poor reader:
"I know you're against the tpp free trade agreement..."
Quote:
Stonehenge said: Woof, I knew you were on the extreme left but I thought you were reasonable. Why did you attack me? What makes you think the dems are good guys? Do you think the tpp is getting passed without dem votes? Do you think they don't support the wars we have going on?
Wooof didn't even mention you in his last post, and his post wasn't even a reply to you. He actually defended your position in saying the Government CAN do good things, which you obviously agree with given your support of food labeling, banning of unhealthy food additives, etc.
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Stonehenge said: I'm not defending gop, they and the dems are the problem. Its one party with two sides, sort of like good guys vs bad guys in wrestling. They put on a show to distract you while they both push for war and other stupid shit.
We both agree with you on this, though Dems are more likely to pass food safety legislation.
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Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: but right wingers wanna cut wages, take food out of impoverished children's mouths, and take away grannies social security check.
I missed you link to the bill they are trying to pass doing all that.
Please tell us you're really not that stupid? I guess you are, so here you go:
Cut wages: Senate Republicans block minimum wage increase bill, Jeb Bush makes the case against the federal minimum wage Take food from children: GOP cuts Medicare, food stamps in new budget blueprint Take grannies social security: Why is GOP going after Social Security?
These are just the first articles I found. There are hundreds to choose from.
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Stonehenge said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Oh, and forget about our infrastructure, we're too busy rebuilding the middle east
Yeah, that right winger obumble needs to get the message. Funny how you always give him a free pass on everything.
Nobody's giving him a free pass on this. We've criticized him many times on this, but you don't listen.
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I need to put both you fanatics on ignore. I can't get a single word of sense out of either one. You have both gone over the edge. Bye.
The irony of that post is completely lost on you.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,375
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Does anyone expect the new president next year to actually change many aspects of the economy? By that I don't mean his policies themselves will actually have a drastic change on the current rate of economics. More so though, the mass pandemonium that ensues from peoples reactions to a new president stepping in and changing policies seems to usually have a pretty big impact on everyone's behavior. I think the world went nuts over Obama being voted into office. This change in everyone views may have lead to sone extreme fanatacism among wealthy people and their change in behavior may have very well effected how the economy changed, much more so then Obamas actual policies really did.
Not I don't think Obama is an incompetent billion a day spender who's spent more money then can be printed. Oh well. I'm just saying I wonder how the next idiot who jumps into office will effect the masses of idiots. Donald Trump running for president? Anyone think he will win? Wasn't he one of the assholes saying he was going to close his business when Obama was originally elected because he disagreed with policies that would bankrupt him?
Man, political discussion forum will become a shit storm for sure during election times. It will be just like before "Romney this" and "Obama that" and mass hysteria over which asshole isn't going to ruin us when they are both greedy power hungry assholes will ensue. I personally have stopped voting anything but local since the last presidential election. Does anyone disagree with that?
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: imachavel]
#21854587 - 06/25/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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If it's between Bush and Clinton, nothing will change after the election. If someone like Bernie Sanders gets elected, then we might actually see some real change.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Why? First off, you think Bernie Sanders has a chance? Two, how does empowering one jerk to make everyone's decisions help change their life? What is Bernie Sanders going to change? Every day here 300,000,000 people make their own decisions. One day a president comes in who will "change some things" that probably shouldn't be changed anyway. Then 300,000,000 people start doing things different, thinking that this one guy is changing everything for them. Its all BS.
When individuals start feeling empowered and stop looking for a political leader to change their lives, maybe things will start working out differently for them.
However, anyone who spends a billion a day in office like Obama has been doing is not "fixing" anything anyway. How can anyone fix that mess? The next guy in office won't spend a billion a day?
I've got a good question for you. Is Greenpeace all over the next political campaign to change it? Has anyone bitched about these resources? How many trees need to be cut down to print a billion $1s every day? Shit, I can't even believe the Amazon is still around. Fucking wasteful if you ask me. Who gets all that money anyway? They use it to build roads? Cmon, the American highway system was completed almost 100 years ago. Is it feeding those who will work in other countries? Last I heard most are still living on crumbs in The Philippines.
Where did all that damn money go? Most consider the debt a successful venture for the cost of the quality of life for an average American. How can a problem be fixed if most people think it doesn't exist as a problem? They will vote for the next idiot who will repeat the mistakes
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
Edited by imachavel (06/25/15 11:31 AM)
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: imachavel]
#21854818 - 06/25/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>However, anyone who spends a billion a day in office like Obama has been doing is not "fixing" anything anyway.
True, and he has been spending a lot more than $1B a day, some ~12 trillions over his term
>Where did all that damn money go?
Good question, they can't even account for a lot of it. Much went down the rat hole to pay for those stupid wars we are still fighting overseas for no good reason.
>Who gets all that money anyway? They use it to build roads?
Hell no. Obumble gave it to the banks and rich folk or used it to bomb innocent people to death. When hard times come we will wish we had some of that wasted money but its all gone.
The left wing morons blindly follow obumble because he is the "peace" president with the "most transparent administration ever" if you want to believe those lies. When people finally find out how rotten the secret tpp is that obumble pushed through, they will still not wake up and will blame it on the gop which is also worthless
I'd take sanders over hillbilly or jeb any day. I'd much rather see paul get in but he is a long shot. Sanders has moved up surprisingly in the polls. Watch for the major media to start attacking him since they are shills for big corporations and the cabal that runs things.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21855298 - 06/25/15 01:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Woof, I knew you were on the extreme left but I thought you were reasonable. Why did you attack me? What makes you think the dems are good guys? Do you think the tpp is getting passed without dem votes? Do you think they don't support the wars we have going on?
>The biggest part of this big government is the exhorbitant military expenditure that has gotten WAY out of control
Helloooo, wake up and realize its been obumble pushing war since he got in. I'm not defending gop, they and the dems are the problem. Its one party with two sides, sort of like good guys vs bad guys in wrestling. They put on a show to distract you while they both push for war and other stupid shit.
> but right wingers wanna cut wages, take food out of impoverished children's mouths, and take away grannies social security check.
I missed you link to the bill they are trying to pass doing all that.
>Oh, and forget about our infrastructure, we're too busy rebuilding the middle east
Yeah, that right winger obumble needs to get the message. Funny how you always give him a free pass on everything.
I need to put both you fanatics on ignore. I can't get a single word of sense out of either one. You have both gone over the edge. Bye.
I didn't attack you Stone! I was making an honest statement. I really don't understand this despisement of government. Government is a tool, just as, for instance, guns are a tool. They can be used in the manner we have just seen in South Carolina, and they can be used for deer hunting, or protection. It's all a matter of who bears that tool, and how it is used. That's why we vote. Sure we can vote for Hillary, and she will misuse that tool. Same with Jebb. However, we can vote for Bernie Sanders, and some would argue Rand Paul, and they will use those tools as a means to very different ends!
You are right about me, I am quite a leftist. I wouldn't say 'extreme' left, because I am not a communist, but we may differ in opinion there. That doesn't mean that I am an apologist for the democratic party. Most democrats are not true liberals. I am starting to see that most Republicans are also not true conservatives, also. Conservativism has mutated into some whacky sort of corporatism in this country, and it is by far the 'fringe' of the two parties. Can we agree on that?
I completely agree that the two parties are two sides of the same coin. However, I think that integrity can be found on both sides, and much more of it can be found on the left, I believe. On the right, we have Ron Paul, a man of integrity, no doubt. He stands for what he believes in, whether you agree with his views or not. On the left, we have Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, and possibly a couple others. Not many on the left either.
This is why Fal and I want to get corporate influence out of the equation. We want to change campaign finance. That is the reason for both parties being so corporatist. They are sponsored by corporations and the wealthy. It is easier for the right to be more blatantly corporatist because they've melded corporatist values with conservative values quite seamlessly.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21855329 - 06/25/15 01:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Conservativism has mutated into some whacky sort of corporatism in this country, and it is by far the 'fringe' of the two parties. Can we agree on that?
I'd argue this applied to both the left and the right. They are both big government corporate fascists, they just disagree on where to grow the government.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21855356 - 06/25/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Kind of like the difference between the union and the confederate armies
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught] 1
#21855397 - 06/25/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Conservativism has mutated into some whacky sort of corporatism in this country, and it is by far the 'fringe' of the two parties. Can we agree on that?
I'd argue this applied to both the left and the right. They are both big government corporate fascists, they just disagree on where to grow the government.
I am not speaking about their actions. I am speaking on their rhetoric. A Republican can actually run on the fact that he is going to give tax breaks to the wealthy, and open up free trade. Dem's do it because the people who pay for their campaigns want them to do it.
One thing that is really bothering me is that people around here seem to think that in order for me to be a Liberal, I have to claim Obama is infallible, and the Democratic party is a left-wing party. I don't support either of those notions.
Fascism is a right-wing philosophy, and both parties are fascist. However, I do support Bernie Sanders, wholeheartedly. Feel free to poke at me for that.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21855617 - 06/25/15 03:04 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
One thing that is really bothering me is that people around here seem to think that in order for me to be a Liberal, I have to claim Obama is infallible, and the Democratic party is a left-wing party. I don't support either of those notions.
Once again this applies to conservatism as well. I can't tell you how many times i've been called racist, bigoted, poor person hater, 1% sympathizer, etc. Just because i consider myself conservative/libertarian.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught] 1
#21855677 - 06/25/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wouldn't call a Libertarian a racist, or a bigot. I would only call them misguided, and yes a '1% sympathizer' and 'poor person hater', regardless of their awareness of that fact. Libertarian principals would quickly degrade America back to feudalism. Very quickly.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856068 - 06/25/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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So please explain to me how i hate poor people. Thank you in advance.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21856106 - 06/25/15 05:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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You advocate the destruction of our social safety net, public education, and laws preventing corporations from doing things that are detrimental to their workers and the environment. It's not terribly complicated.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856153 - 06/25/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Conservativism has mutated into some whacky sort of corporatism in this country, and it is by far the 'fringe' of the two parties. Can we agree on that?
I'd argue this applied to both the left and the right. They are both big government corporate fascists, they just disagree on where to grow the government.
I am not speaking about their actions. I am speaking on their rhetoric. A Republican can actually run on the fact that he is going to give tax breaks to the wealthy, and open up free trade. Dem's do it because the people who pay for their campaigns want them to do it.
One thing that is really bothering me is that people around here seem to think that in order for me to be a Liberal, I have to claim Obama is infallible, and the Democratic party is a left-wing party. I don't support either of those notions.
Fascism is a right-wing philosophy, and both parties are fascist. However, I do support Bernie Sanders, wholeheartedly. Feel free to poke at me for that.
Fascism is left wing. Its a common misconception.
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Shins
Fun guy



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Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856163 - 06/25/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: I wouldn't call a Libertarian a racist, or a bigot. I would only call them misguided, and yes a '1% sympathizer' and 'poor person hater', regardless of their awareness of that fact. Libertarian principals would quickly degrade America back to feudalism. Very quickly.
BS
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856169 - 06/25/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: You advocate the destruction of our social safety net, public education, and laws preventing corporations from doing things that are detrimental to their workers and the environment. It's not terribly complicated.
You're incorrect about all of that and obviously don't know what you're talking about.
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21856197 - 06/25/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Please elaborate. Also, yes, Fascism is a right-wing philosophy, there is no misconception here.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856233 - 06/25/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Please elaborate. Also, yes, Fascism is a right-wing philosophy, there is no misconception here.
How do you figure? Historically fascism comes to power after socialism centralizes power into big government and then it is corrupted into fascism.
Nazis? Socialist. stalin? Communist. mao? Communisr mussolini? Socialist
looks awfully left wing to me.
the whole point of right wing politics is to limit the power of government, how exactly does a limited government mesh with fascism? Thsts utter nonsense.
you probably blame capitalism for todays economy too?
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856249 - 06/25/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: You advocate the destruction of our social safety net, public education, and laws preventing corporations from doing things that are detrimental to their workers and the environment. It's not terribly complicated.
no, no, and no. Try again.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21856253 - 06/25/15 05:43 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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A mistake almost all left wingers think is that if a right winger wants to end a government program that he is "against" that thing.
what you all fail to realize is that government is not necessary for us to provide most of the things government does. If ee want to cut some program, it is most likely because we believe the private sector could do it just as well or better, it doesn't mean we hate that certain thing, it means we believe it can be done more efficiently without government involvement.
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Shins
Fun guy



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21856259 - 06/25/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Also if corps are doing some kind of harm to someone, they can sue. Right wingers believe in individual rights, if corps are violating a right, you can take them to court.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856261 - 06/25/15 05:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Woof, when you make silly statements with nothing to back them up, you get your ass handed to you. Like here.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21856288 - 06/25/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mussolini, the father of Fascism, was a Socialist? That's news to me!
The Nazi's were Fascist. They spread propaganda that they were socialist to build favor.
I suggest you pull out your history book once more ;-)
Lenin was a real communist. We call Stalin's brand of communism 'Stalinism' and Mao's brand of communism 'Maoism' because they're not actually communism, but that's a debate I really would rather not get into.
Capitalism is certainly to blame for many features of today's economy. You probably blame Communism for Russia's economic problems? That's because Russia was fucking Communist! lmao
Also, do you disagree with my statement about Libertarianism? Please elaborate.
Are you going to refute the very definition of Fascism?:
fas·cism ˈfaSHˌizəm/ noun noun: fascism; noun: Fascism; plural noun: Fascisms
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; More Nazism, rightism; nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism; jingoism, isolationism; neofascism, neo-Nazism "a film depicting the rise of fascism in the 1930s" (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21856297 - 06/25/15 05:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Woof, when you make silly statements with nothing to back them up, you get your ass handed to you. Like here.
I'm waiting for him to back up his silly statements. I think you're sorely confused, stone!
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856315 - 06/25/15 05:54 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I love how most of you people still can't manage to differentiate between systems of government and economic philosophies.
--------------------
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21856383 - 06/25/15 06:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: Mussolini, the father of Fascism, was a Socialist? That's news to me!
Its news to you because you don't know what you're talking about
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini
.In 1912 Mussolini was the leading member of the National Directorate of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI).[3] Prior to 1914 he was a keen supporter of the Socialist International, starting the series of meetings in Switzerland[4] that organised the communist revolutions and insurrections that swept through Europe from 1917.
Quote:
The Nazi's were Fascist. They spread propaganda that they were socialist to build favor.
semi-bullshit. The nazis were officially socialist, but you are touching on a key piint here; socialism is the precursor to fascism and fascists play left wingers like the gullible little tools they are in order to centralize the power they need to pull of fascism. This is happening in America today.
Quote:
Lenin was a real communist. We call Stalin's brand of communism 'Stalinism' and Mao's brand of communism 'Maoism' because they're not actually communism, but that's a debate I really would rather not get into.
further proof that left wing government leads to fascism.
Ill say it again; left wingers are used as tools by fascists in order to set up yhe centers of power they need for fascism to operate. Right wingers are wise to this, left wingers are oblivious.
Quote:
Capitalism is certainly to blame for many features of today's economy. You probably blame Communism for Russia's economic problems? That's because Russia was fucking Communist! lmao
America has not resembled capitalism since at leadt 1913 when yhe federal reserve act and income tax acts were simultaneously passed.
oh gee, another oblivious left winger who doesn't understand economics or capitalism., I'm so suprised.
Quote:
Are you going to refute the very definition of Fascism?:
That is one definition and yes I absolutely refute it. Even if it were right wing, which it is not, it always cines into power directly after left wing governments create the foundation of power centers in government.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Shins]
#21856413 - 06/25/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>fascists play left wingers like the gullible little tools they are in order to centralize the power they need to pull of fascism. This is happening in America today.
Exactly
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge] 1
#21856622 - 06/25/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow, this goes a lot deeper than you fellas think. There are varying right and left wing philosophies. Left wing philosophy focuses on empowering the people, and creating equality. Right wing philosophy focuses on empowering those who are "deserving" of power.
It's not just a matter of big and small government. Mussolini stated that the corporations were the most important part of a country and that the government should work with them to make a better country. Fascism is the merging of corporate and government interests. This is a crucial divergence from Socialism. Fascism is also characterized by belligerent nationalism.
Fascism empowers corporations and oligarchs. Socialism empowers the people, as is evident throughout a large portion of Europe.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Bigbadwooof
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: The Ecstatic]
#21856647 - 06/25/15 07:03 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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We sit at the crux of these two philosophies right now, in America. We have the Fascist right, and a few Socialists on the left. Our country is certainly headed toward Fascism, but Socialism may win the day.
You will not have your Libertarianism. You will have Fascism or Socialism.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I love how most of you people still can't manage to differentiate between systems of government and economic philosophies.
Systems of government and economic philosophies are often intertwined. Generally there isn't much distinction.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21856888 - 06/25/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: You advocate the destruction of our social safety net, public education, and laws preventing corporations from doing things that are detrimental to their workers and the environment. It's not terribly complicated.
no, no, and no. Try again.
So you're not really a libertarian then? Or perhaps you are, but you disagree with all the nutty positions they have. Then I guess I'm a libertarian too. Maybe even a right wing extremist? Or a fascist!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Theres a difference between a Libertarian and libertarian.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21857988 - 06/25/15 11:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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... Go on.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21858165 - 06/26/15 12:33 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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A hard "L" Libertarian is someone who is a member of the official party, follows all official party points etc. A soft "l" libertarian is more of a political philosophy. I boil it down to "can this issue be solved with less government/more freedom rather than the opposite". And there is definitely a spectrum as well, there are Rand Paul libertarians who recognize the need for government in certain areas, and there are the minarchist breed who want to privatize everything down to the police and fire departments.
Now personally i believe we as a society should have a social safety net, though its far too lenient at the moment, no one should get something for free, it should have to be payed back in some way. I still want publicly funded police and fire departments and roads. But we need more of an emphasis on personal responsibility as a society, the government shouldn't be protecting the people from themselves. Let adults make their own decisions.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21858228 - 06/26/15 12:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: I boil it down to "can this issue be solved with less government/more freedom rather than the opposite".
Now personally i believe we as a society should have a social safety net, though its far too lenient at the moment, no one should get something for free, it should have to be payed back in some way. I still want publicly funded police and fire departments and roads. But we need more of an emphasis on personal responsibility as a society, the government shouldn't be protecting the people from themselves. Let adults make their own decisions.
I agree with everything you just said, except that our social safety net is "far too lenient at the moment". Can you explain why you feel that way?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 47 minutes, 46 seconds
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He thinks the government should provide short-term loans instead of giving people things.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21858255 - 06/26/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: He thinks the government should provide short-term loans instead of giving people things.
Even so, I'd be interested to know what things the Government gives people that crosses the line.
I think many people overestimate what the Government gives out, so I'm curious what crosses the line. Food stamps?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21859106 - 06/26/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>A soft "l" libertarian is more of a political philosophy. I boil it down to "can this issue be solved with less government/more freedom rather than the opposite". And there is definitely a spectrum as well, there are Rand Paul libertarians who recognize the need for government in certain areas
A good analysis
>Now personally i believe we as a society should have a social safety net, though its far too lenient at the moment, no one should get something for free, it should have to be payed back in some way. I still want publicly funded police and fire departments and roads. But we need more of an emphasis on personal responsibility as a society, the government shouldn't be protecting the people from themselves. Let adults make their own decisions.
Lets see the moon bats find something wrong with that.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21859131 - 06/26/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Lets see the moon bats find something wrong with that.
I already said I agreed with it, except perhaps that our social safety net is "far too lenient at the moment". I think most people overestimate what the Government gives out, and I'm curious if you share that point of view and if so, what they are giving out that they shouldn't.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Bigbadwooof said: He thinks the government should provide short-term loans instead of giving people things.
Even so, I'd be interested to know what things the Government gives people that crosses the line.
I think many people overestimate what the Government gives out, so I'm curious what crosses the line. Food stamps?
I'd like to see a sort of flat payment given out instead of the various agencies and programs we have at the moment. Similar to the negative income tax proposed by Milton Friedman. And it should always have to be payed back in one way or another, either through work programs or withholdings from future earnings, it should only be allowed to go on for a limited amount of time as well. My whole family was on welfare growing up so i'm fairly familiar with the systems, at least in the states where i lived.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Bigbadwooof
Trumps Bone Spurs



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 13,347
Last seen: 47 minutes, 46 seconds
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21859514 - 06/26/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >A soft "l" libertarian is more of a political philosophy. I boil it down to "can this issue be solved with less government/more freedom rather than the opposite". And there is definitely a spectrum as well, there are Rand Paul libertarians who recognize the need for government in certain areas
A good analysis
>Now personally i believe we as a society should have a social safety net, though its far too lenient at the moment, no one should get something for free, it should have to be payed back in some way. I still want publicly funded police and fire departments and roads. But we need more of an emphasis on personal responsibility as a society, the government shouldn't be protecting the people from themselves. Let adults make their own decisions.
Lets see the moon bats find something wrong with that.
My problem with that is simple. You can try to define Libertarian however you want, but it is already a coherent philosophy. Just because the tea partiers are scattered all over the philosophical map doesn't mean that 'libertarian' means what you 'feel it means'.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin Every one of you should see this video. "If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy
 
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: psyconaught]
#21859612 - 06/26/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't have a problem with a negative income tax.
Do you think your family could afford to pay back the welfare they received without financial hardship?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Do you think your family could afford to pay back the welfare they received without financial hardship?
My father absolutely could pay it back. My mother and her extended family however could not, however that has to do with the fact that they were/are drug addicts, alcoholics, and avoid working at every chance they get.
Growing up with divorced parents was very interesting because i got to see how two very different ethics played out. My father lost everything in the financial crash because he was in the mortgage industry and at the same time my mother stole all his money (long drawn out divorce story that is irrelevant). He used welfare as a temporary crutch to help take care of his children and got off it as soon as he could. My mother on the other hand has worked maybe a total of a few months through her entire life and is continually gaming the system to get more money/benefits so she doesnt have to get a job.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 2 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Bigbadwooof]
#21862451 - 06/27/15 01:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Bigbadwooof said: We sit at the crux of these two philosophies right now, in America. We have the Fascist right, and a few Socialists on the left. Our country is certainly headed toward Fascism, but Socialism may win the day.
You will not have your Libertarianism. You will have Fascism or Socialism.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I love how most of you people still can't manage to differentiate between systems of government and economic philosophies.
Systems of government and economic philosophies are often intertwined. Generally there isn't much distinction.
Woof is wrong. We will have totalitarian government but it wont be Fascism or Socialism. We will have State-Capitalism/Socialism/Cronyism....why do you think Obama double down on most of Bushes policies? BEcause all the estalishment includin R's and D's, all want State Cronyism. That's what the Tpp is all about. And why bitch about Republicans? THey are giving Obama everything he wants now that Hairbrained Reed is out of the game and can't block anything.
And what Republican wants to take away grannies insurance? That's an MSNBC talking point. SS will be tapped in a couple of years, and some republicans wanted to implement methods so that we can even have social security.
I really want to know how being responsible about the budget and wanting to ensure that ss will remain solvent is throwing granny over the cliff.
I mean, these endless bullshit talking points are just crap rhetoric.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21862498 - 06/27/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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There's supposed to be about $2 trillion in the SS trust fund, but it's been pissed away over the years by both Dems and Reps and replaced by IOU's.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21863302 - 06/27/15 09:18 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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>Woof is wrong.
I think he is just trolling these days.
>why do you think Obama double down on most of Bushes policies?
Because he is a lying cunt who did the opposite of what he promised?
>And what Republican wants to take away grannies insurance? That's an MSNBC talking point. SS will be tapped in a couple of years, and some republicans wanted to implement methods so that we can even have social security.
The left likes to make up shit to scare themselves with. SS will not technically be tapped in a couple years, but as canard said, its all worthless iou's.
>I really want to know how being responsible about the budget and wanting to ensure that ss will remain solvent is throwing granny over the cliff.
The big spending politicians are throwing granny off the cliff, mostly dem but also lots of gop too. Obumble spent our fortune fighting pointless wars overseas and taking care of his cronies. The moonbats say he is not perfect but better than gop, somehow. They would vote for a stinking pile of crap if it had the d label, some say they did just that in 08.
Why is it that when some totally horrible bill comes along like patriot act, freedom act, tpp, etc one side or another claims to be totally against it but enough of each party crosses over each time to get it passed? Funny how that always is. It reminds me of pro wrestling, just put on a show of opposition for the crowd and the predetermined winner always wins.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Stonehenge]
#21863348 - 06/27/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Uh, Afghanistan and Iraq were initiated under Bush, you know. Obama has tried to wind things down in both of those places, but has kept some troops there at the request of the Governments there. Now the Reps are banging the war drums yet again over the ISIS mess.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: Le_Canard]
#21863644 - 06/27/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Le_Canard said: Uh, Afghanistan and Iraq were initiated under Bush, you know. Obama has tried to wind things down in both of those places, but has kept some troops there at the request of the Governments there. Now the Reps are banging the war drums yet again over the ISIS mess.
Yes, shrub started Iraq and Afghanistan wars. I don't see anyone defending his actions. Does that give a free pass to obumble to keep them going as long as possible? Was he obligated to follow shub's policies or could he go his own way? His decision to reverse shub's pullout of Iraq was on his head, not bush's. No one is making excuses for shrub so don't make them for obumble.
>Obama has tried to wind things down in both of those places
He begged Karzai in Afghanistan to let troops stay but was told no and had to give huge bribes to get permission. Your story is false.
>but has kept some troops there at the request of the Governments there
The puppet govt in Iraq? It stands as long as we prop it up. Obumble has fomented war all over the middle east, also in yemen and Syria plus other places.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
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Re: Obama gets the TPP shoved up his ass... [Re: starfire_xes]
#21871665 - 06/29/15 01:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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starfire_xes said: And what Republican wants to take away grannies insurance? That's an MSNBC talking point. SS will be tapped in a couple of years, and some republicans wanted to implement methods so that we can even have social security.
One party wants to implement methods to keep social security as it is, the other party wants to implement methods to cut a bunch of it away.
The fact is that social security can EASILY be saved, just by making the wealthy pay the same 6.2% that everyone else pays. In fact, that would create such an excess, that rates would have to be cut for everyone.
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starfire_xes said: I really want to know how being responsible about the budget and wanting to ensure that ss will remain solvent is throwing granny over the cliff.
Taking away from granny is throwing her off the cliff.
Quote:
starfire_xes said: I mean, these endless bullshit talking points are just crap rhetoric.
Given what I've just told you, please explain how these talking points are bullshit.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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