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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21806470 - 06/14/15 01:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Me? Less. I'm all for a minimalist government.

Imo, with a few exceptions, police should only be here to respond to calls when people need them.



The guy that got shot in the back... whoever that dude was that ran like he had cerebral palsy and got a taser planted on him


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #21806496 - 06/14/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Me? Less. I'm all for a minimalist government.

Imo, with a few exceptions, police should only be here to respond to calls when people need them.






so the pool party that got raided, the guy that wouldnt drop his screwdriver,
the homeless guy in Az that refused to drop his knives and pretty much every
time that the cops show up and someone gets shot


Quote:

The guy that got shot in the back... whoever that dude was that ran like he had cerebral palsy and got a taser planted on him




so anything a cop does is apparently the wrong thing because we went from shot
in the back to tasers, that deescalated really fast



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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21806699 - 06/14/15 02:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

How about they just do their jobs properly. You know, stop arresting people without charges, killing innocent civilians, that kind of thing.

You don't seem to think there is even a problem here.



(And those numbers are the official number. As we now know, more than 50% of police killings are not reported as such to the FBI)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
because british police have no guns, they have to wait for armed officers to
arrive while the death toll rises,




:fatfear:




Yeah, yet somehow here in the US the death toll rises twice as fast.


I just read that NYC has paid out over a billion dollars for police misconduct lawsuits in the past five years. How anyone can sit back and not believe this is a crisis?





is it because the US reports every homicide as a homicide while the brits dont
list justifiable killings as homicide... number juggling, FTW




That's just factually incorrect.

The FBI is lists murder and justifiable homicides on a separate table, It says so right on their fucking webpage. 

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide
Quote:

This section also includes information about justifiable homicide—certain willful killings that must be reported as justifiable or excusable. In the UCR Program, justifiable homicide is defined as and limited to:

The killing of a felon by a peace officer in the line of duty.
The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.
Because these killings are determined through law enforcement investigation to be justifiable, they are tabulated separately from murder and nonnegligent manslaughter. Justifiable homicide information can be found in Expanded Homicide Data Table 14, “Justifiable Homicide, by Weapon, Law Enforcement, 2009–2013” and Expanded Homicide Data Table 15, “Justifiable Homicide, by Weapon, Private Citizen, 2009–2013.”




--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21806736 - 06/14/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Me? Less. I'm all for a minimalist government.

Imo, with a few exceptions, police should only be here to respond to calls when people need them.






so the pool party that got raided, the guy that wouldnt drop his screwdriver,
the homeless guy in Az that refused to drop his knives and pretty much every
time that the cops show up and someone gets shot


Quote:

The guy that got shot in the back... whoever that dude was that ran like he had cerebral palsy and got a taser planted on him




so anything a cop does is apparently the wrong thing because we went from shot
in the back to tasers, that deescalated really fast






Where did I say everything the police do is wrong?

Pool party got raided 99% because someone called. A bunch of kids that obviously didn't live in the neighbor hood took over a private pool, I doubt cops just happened to be patrolling the neighborhood and were like "hey some black kids, let's go arrest them" I stand by the police on that one they were disobeying orders and acting like animals and two males were approaching the cop from his side while he was dealing with that girl, i'd have drawn my weapon too.

Guy with the screwdriver, he was close, things can happen fast, justified 100%. He was called there.

Not sure what you are talking about for the guy shot in the back but there is no way that was justified. He  was running away, doesn't matter what happened before that he was no longer a threat and was shot in the back from a decent distance. To top it off the cop walks over there and drops a taser to make it look like he had it on him when he was shot. Cop should face murder charges.

Homeless guy... that was murder. He was at a far enough distance that he wasn't an immediate threat and the police shot him because he didn't listen to them.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21806825 - 06/14/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
How about they just do their jobs properly. You know, stop arresting people without charges, killing innocent civilians, that kind of thing.





how many of those people are innocent?

now get in there and show them how the job should be done

Quote:

You don't seem to think there is even a problem here.






you seem to think it is a problem

Quote:


That's just factually incorrect.

The FBI is lists murder and justifiable homicides on a separate table, It says so right on their fucking webpage. 




are they not listed as homicides? maybe you can show us how the brits list them
but more importantly, show us the number of police shootings that were not
justifiable homicides


Edited by Prisoner#1 (06/14/15 03:10 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #21806874 - 06/14/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Not sure what you are talking about for the guy shot in the back but there is no way that was justified. He  was running away,




I'm not the one that brought up someone being shot in the back, I brought up micheal brown

Quote:

doesn't matter what happened before that he was no longer a threat and was shot in the back from a decent distance. To top it off the cop walks over there and drops a taser to make it look like he had it on him when he was shot. Cop should face murder charges.




except he proved himself to be a danger to the public and you're basing this
shit off a from a short clip where the media is telling you what they want you
to believe, they arent telling you what happened because they dont fucking know

Quote:

Homeless guy... that was murder. He was at a far enough distance that he wasn't an immediate threat and the police shot him because he didn't listen to them.




see, the cops were called out because of some belligerent dickhead, he showed
this time and again in his encounter with the cops, he refused to drop the
weapons he was holding which left his as a continued threat, maybe you believe
it should have been handled differently like a dozen cops standing around
waiting him out, maybe you believe the cops should have just walked away


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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21806929 - 06/14/15 03:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

From the same FBI document:

In 2013, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 14,196.

Murder is when you kill someone and it is not justified. The US murder rate and UK murder rate are comparing the same thing - murders.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21806935 - 06/14/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
From the same FBI document:

In 2013, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 14,196.

Murder is when you kill someone and it is not justified. The US murder rate and UK murder rate are comparing the same thing - murders.





estimated number?

once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21806965 - 06/14/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Not sure what you are talking about for the guy shot in the back but there is no way that was justified. He  was running away,




I'm not the one that brought up someone being shot in the back, I brought up micheal brown

Quote:

doesn't matter what happened before that he was no longer a threat and was shot in the back from a decent distance. To top it off the cop walks over there and drops a taser to make it look like he had it on him when he was shot. Cop should face murder charges.




except he proved himself to be a danger to the public and you're basing this
shit off a from a short clip where the media is telling you what they want you
to believe, they arent telling you what happened because they dont fucking know

Quote:

Homeless guy... that was murder. He was at a far enough distance that he wasn't an immediate threat and the police shot him because he didn't listen to them.




see, the cops were called out because of some belligerent dickhead, he showed
this time and again in his encounter with the cops, he refused to drop the
weapons he was holding which left his as a continued threat, maybe you believe
it should have been handled differently like a dozen cops standing around
waiting him out, maybe you believe the cops should have just walked away



I don't see how bringing that up wasn't relevant. I say put a civilian in the shoes in many controversial shootings and they'd get locked up for murder. You say bullshit and talk about zimmerman and I give you an example of a shooting fitting the criteria I described. Do you seriously think if he assaulted me and started running away and I shot him in the back from a distance  "because he was a danger to the public" then dropped a taser next to him that I would not be getting charged?

He's a danger to the public because he is running away? That justifies killing him?

Yeah he was a belligerant dickhead but there are options that don't involve shooting him. Coulda used LTL weapons, start shooting the fucker with beanbags or rubber bullets he'd most likely drop the knife to get it to stop, pain is a strong motivator. If for whatever reason that didn't  work yeah they should have waited him out. He'd either surrender or attack the police in which case he would get shot anyways. The police weren't in immediate danger standing at a distance like they were with rifles pointed at him you saw how fast he dropped.



Edited by luvdemboomers (06/14/15 03:58 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21807010 - 06/14/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
From the same FBI document:

In 2013, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 14,196.

Murder is when you kill someone and it is not justified. The US murder rate and UK murder rate are comparing the same thing - murders.





estimated number?

once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings



Yeah. Estimated. Jesus Christ. Can't you just admit when you're wrong.

Police shootings.: Insufficient data. Reporting of that information is intentionally obscured. But, considering that Britain, Germany, Ireland and many other nations manage to go months or years without a police related homicide and still have a lower murder rate than the US proves almost none of the US shootings were necessary. The cops in the US are an embarrassment.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (06/14/15 04:15 PM)


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OfflineCaptainKurt
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21807229 - 06/14/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When the suspect is shooting, or about to be, and the suspect is becoming dangerously close with a stabbing weapon to officers or civilians.


Edited by CaptainKurt (06/14/15 05:13 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21808722 - 06/14/15 11:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
From the same FBI document:

In 2013, the estimated number of murders in the nation was 14,196.

Murder is when you kill someone and it is not justified. The US murder rate and UK murder rate are comparing the same thing - murders.





estimated number?

once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings



Yeah. Estimated. Jesus Christ. Can't you just admit when you're wrong.

Police shootings.: Insufficient data. Reporting of that information is intentionally obscured. But, considering that Britain, Germany, Ireland and many other nations manage to go months or years without a police related homicide and still have a lower murder rate than the US proves almost none of the US shootings were necessary. The cops in the US are an embarrassment.





so I still get no answer... typical koods


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21809060 - 06/15/15 02:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

none of the police shootings were justified, they shouldn't have guns, and to protect the innocent from crazy people they should have to cover themselves in industrial adhesive and throw themselves at the criminals.  I'm not even kidding, i dont trust the police with guns. 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #21809550 - 06/15/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings




Quote:

once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings




Quote:

once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings




Quote:

once more koods, how many police shootings were not justified shootings




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21809590 - 06/15/15 07:45 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

While koods continues to ignore the question, some stats to ponder.

Quote:

Between 2002 and 2008, about 5.3 million fewer residents
had face-to-face contact with police, down to an estimated
40.0 million from 45.3 million.




http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp08.pdf


2008 police killings = 23

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_prior_to_2009#2008


So the percentage of killings is 0.000000575

(2008 was the most recent BJS numbers I could find)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21809611 - 06/15/15 07:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In 2008 the population of the US was 304,000,000.

Percent killed by police?

0.000000007565


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21809621 - 06/15/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
In 2008 the population of the US was 304,000,000.

Percent killed by police?

0.000000007565





You pulled that out of your ass, recalculate that. That aint even an attempt at credible math. You're one of our community elders, be responsible for what you teach.

You're 55x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist in the US


--------------------
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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21809622 - 06/15/15 07:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Using Wikipedia's numbers for 2014:

Police killings = 623

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States,_2014

US population  = 318,000,000

Percentage of population killed = 0.0000001959


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Asante]
    #21809626 - 06/15/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
You pulled that out of your ass, recalculate that




I pulled it out of a calculator. If there's a math error, kindly demonstrate it.

23 killed of a population of 308,000,000


As for your link... so what? We've had very few terrorist attacks and millions of police interactions. And of those killed by police, most were deemed justifiable.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #21809633 - 06/15/15 08:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Your first estimate was over three orders of magnitude off. Thats missing the mark by over a thousand times.

If they had done that at the Castle Bravo test we would be living in a nuclear winter now.

Lucky for us their oopsie was only 1.5x



--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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