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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: myc_check1212]
    #21796876 - 06/12/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Lets be honest, the worst police force is in Japan. If a crime is reported and its not an easy open/shut, it doesn't get investigated. The idea being that's how they keep crime rates down. Like betting MortalKombat on easy setting. Its worse if the victim is raped or molested because talking about those topics is very taboo.

My source is the 'Freakanomics' the documentary.

I hope that's changed


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: myc_check1212]
    #21796897 - 06/12/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I say you're talking out of your ass on that one. I was in Japan last year and my chick is from Japan and has traveled the world, she hasn't seen any kind of police brutality and abuse of police power more than she has seen here.

Sure, Japan's system isn't perfect by any means, but they also don't kill the fuck out of their citizens. The cops there actually care about helping people and if you stop a random cop in the street and ask for help they will. If some mentally unstable guy goes crazy on with a samurai sword on the street, they aren't going to just pump him full of bullets if he hasn't hurt anyone, they will almost always first go to non-lethal methods of incapacitating someone unless they are are a serious immediate threat to someones life. Here, you can just walk down the street with a sword and you can consider yourself lucky as fuck if you don't get shot on first sight by a cop. Or, holding a rake in a "threatening manner" for that matter. Or having your hands in your pockets.

Yeah, the US certainly isn't Germany, France, Canada, UK, or Japan.... Cops in this country kill people on par with many third world countries with 10x the crime. So we are more closely related to 3rd world countries in that department.


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Onlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21796925 - 06/12/15 11:05 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
I say you're talking out of your ass on that one. I was in Japan last year and my chick is from Japan and has traveled the world, she hasn't seen any kind of police brutality and abuse of police power more than she has seen here.

Sure, Japan's system isn't perfect by any means, but they also don't kill the fuck out of their citizens. The cops there actually care about helping people and if you stop a random cop in the street and ask for help they will. If some mentally unstable guy goes crazy on with a samurai sword on the street, they aren't going to just pump him full of bullets if he hasn't hurt anyone, they will almost always first go to non-lethal methods of incapacitating someone unless they are are a serious immediate threat to someones life. Here, you can just walk down the street with a sword and you can consider yourself lucky as fuck if you don't get shot on first sight by a cop. Or, holding a rake in a "threatening manner" for that matter. Or having your hands in your pockets.

Yeah, the US certainly isn't Germany, France, Canada, UK, or Japan.... Cops in this country kill people on par with many third world countries with 10x the crime. So we are more closely related to 3rd world countries in that department.




I really don't think it's really fair to compare homogeneous countries with the US, this cultural diversity with the large economic inequality is a very bad combination for this country.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: qman]
    #21796948 - 06/12/15 11:10 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ok then compare us to Britain which is more culturally diverse than the U.S. They still
Manage to have .1% of the number of police killings we have. :cookiemonster:


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21796967 - 06/12/15 11:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Ok then compare us to Britain which is more culturally diverse than the U.S. They still
Manage to have .1% of the number of police killings we have. :cookiemonster:




"Britain which is more culturally diverse than the US"

:uhno:

Don't play semantics, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom

"87% white, 7% Asian, 3% black"


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Onlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: qman] * 1
    #21796985 - 06/12/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You should be explicit with your racism, and don't so that wink wink bullshit

You clearly have never been to Britain if you think it is a homogenous society.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (06/12/15 11:21 AM)


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21797059 - 06/12/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not talking out my ass on Japan. Watch the documentary, its fascinating.


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Onlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21797220 - 06/12/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You should be explicit with your racism, and don't so that wink wink bullshit

You clearly have never been to Britain if you think it is a homogenous society.




You stated the UK was more culturally diverse than the US, I showed otherwise.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: qman]
    #21797248 - 06/12/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

No, you showed me how many whites, Asians and black people there are in Britain. If you think all white people have the same culture, you would really enjoy Saudi Arabia.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: qman] * 1
    #21797257 - 06/12/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

did you? i just saw some race statistics.  i mean isn't UK like.. a bunch of countries that warred with each other for milenia? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#National_Identity


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Onlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21797359 - 06/12/15 12:48 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
No, you showed me how many whites, Asians and black people there are in Britain. If you think all white people have the same culture, you would really enjoy Saudi Arabia.




Our white population is much more diverse than the UK white population if we're going down that path. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_American


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: myc_check1212]
    #21797427 - 06/12/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
It's just that Americans are largely spineless idiots who believe what ever is on TV.




Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
I'm not talking out my ass on Japan. Watch the documentary, its fascinating.




Says Americans believe anything on tv......uses documentary to back up claims.

:lolwut:


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21797590 - 06/12/15 01:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Out of context. Freakanomics was about correlations of social policies and statistical effect, a dry read but very good documentary. Very simply put, stats will state X. An action or policy takes effect and the new result is Y. All about numbers thus no agenda to be pushed.

My spineless idiots comment was directed at those who watch alphabet soup network news or YouTube snippets and accept it as Gospel truth. Networks and tubers have agendas thus they put a spin on the coverage.

Context people


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21799687 - 06/12/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Why do British police kill people at a rate hundreds of times lower than American police?

Answer: American police are trigger happy idiot pussies.





because british police have no guns, they have to wait for armed officers to
arrive while the death toll rises, the US also has a different criminal
culture than Britain has in addition to a much larger population


now ask yourself why a country that has no guns has so many shootings and a
dramatic increase in violent crime, ask why these statistics you want to
cite are not judged by the same measure, what constitutes a homicide in the
US doesnt in britain

for instance the claim "The last time a British officer was killed by a gun was
in 2012." is false, I know you didnt make it but it has been touted by the
media, in 2013 a cop was killed in england, several others were shot at, one
even blinded in one eye by a criminal with a home made gas powered gun, in the
last decade many were killed either by being shot, stabbed or bludgeoned while
trying to affect an arrest


why exactly do you think they disarmed the british cops? think maybe it's
because they'd actually try to defend themselves and probably shoot a suspect
instead of waiting to be stabbed, shot or beat to death and the pussy ass
liberal jackasses in english politics are more willing to let everyone become a
victim of crime than to deal with the bad press of a cop shooting someone and
it being questionable


isnt that the kind of bullshit you're seeking here


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Shroomism]
    #21799729 - 06/12/15 09:40 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Sure, Japan's system isn't perfect by any means, but they also don't kill the fuck out of their citizens. The cops there actually care about helping people and if you stop a random cop in the street and ask for help they will. 






hahahaha.... sure thing Tojo. answer a few questions for us if japan cares so much


1. why does japan alter it's homicide statistics so that many of the murders are listed as suicides

2. how many people go missing each year in japan nd at what rate are they
recovered whether live or dead and when recovered dead, why is it never
listed as a homicide

cops get promotions and raises in japan based on low crime figures, that's not
a system that lends it's self to caring about people, it's a system that lends
it's self to corruption because the cops take pay offs from both sides of the
system so that the numbers remain low


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Supachopped719]
    #21799990 - 06/12/15 10:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

well guys, i'm way late to the party, but i wanted to respond to the OP.







this isn't a bad idea.  i mean, if it's good enough for the U.S. armed forces in Iraq, its good enough for the local PD right?


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21800008 - 06/12/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Artex said:
I will preface this by stating that I worked around police for about 18 months.  I did not work in the office with them, but interacted with them regularly via the IT program I was an intern for.  My boss was a former police officer that switched careers after getting sick of seeing the "worst of society - day after day."  He warned me on day one not to get too opinionated with anything I heard officers say, and to try to understand how jaded they were, dealing with angry and upset people all day long.

So police are trained to escalate one level for the situation.  If the suspect is using fists, the police use a baton.  If the suspect has a knife, the police draw their weapon.  If the suspect has a gun, the police may open fire.

Police are also trained in unarmed combat.





I'll only go after this load of horse shit because the rest is nonsense about
enlightenment and claims from some nutter so screw that.


cops arent trained to escalate only one level, that's complete bullshit, cop
are trained to stay alive, they're trained to use reasonable, justifiable force
which means that if you pull a weapon or attack them then they will escalate it
to the point that they avoid injury or death, that means if you pull a
screwdriver then they pull a gun and shoot you if that need arises. cops are
trained in a very basic self defense, just like soldier are, they arent trained
in unarmed or armed combat, that's years of training, anyone in martial arts
will tell you that

cops have the exact same rights when it comes to self defense that you and I
do, if someone attacks us and we have reasonable belief that we could suffer
bodily harm or death, we are allowed to use lethal force, if someone is making
a credible threat such as claiming they'll stab you while they're wielding a
weapon, again, we have the right to use lethal force and this shit is no
different than it is for the cops, why the fuck people think cops should be
held to a higher standard than what the average citizen is in the defense of
their own lives is beyond me


now why is it that everyone here is allowed to defend themselves but most here
say that the cops shouldnt have that same right, I ask this question in some
form or another in every one of these threads and to date, I have not received
a single answer to that question from the 'anti-brutality' bunch





Put a "civilian" (not a cop) in the shoes of the police in many of these controversial shootings and they would be getting locked up for murder. Hell people would be getting locked up for polce shootings that are never controversial enough to make anything outside local news. My outrage is about the police being held unaccountable for actions that would have me being fed to the birds.


Edited by luvdemboomers (06/12/15 10:52 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #21800223 - 06/12/15 11:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemboomers said:
Put a "civilian" (not a cop) in the shoes of the police in many of these controversial shootings and they would be getting locked up for murder.





that's bullshit, zimmerman was one of many hundreds if not thousands of cases
each year in which an civilian shoots an unarmed civilian, it's not plastered
all over the news in most instances, the few that make it are the ones in which
the media is pushing the anti gun agenda and when they're trying to push the
race agenda. it's all about creating  the drama that keeps people clicking the
links, that's how they're making money. news papers are all but gone and more
of these media outlets are moving to pay content to increase the cashflow



Quote:

My outrage is about the police being held unaccountable for actions that would have me being fed to the birds.





just because you dont want to believe they are being held accountable doesnt
mean you're right, the majority of shootings by cops are justified, sure there
are some that are questionable but you and I dont see what the investigators,
prosecutors, grand juries, juries and judges see, we have to rely on what the
media is telling us, we have to rely on the likes of shroomism and koods to
tell us that the cops are evil pieces of shit that murder everyone with impunity


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #21800277 - 06/13/15 12:19 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

171-300-0011 - Employ Progressive Levels of Individual Force When Confronting Civilians
Assessed the situation and, if possible, reported it immediately to your section/team leader. Isolated hostile civilians and used no more force than was necessary to control the situation.

Conditions: While securing a critical area or participating in a civil disturbance operation, you have been confronted by one or more hostile civilians. You may have crowd control equipment such as a riot baton, military police (MP) club, and mace. You may have been authorized to use crowd control materials such as a water hose or chemical gas.



Standards: Assessed the situation and, if possible, reported it immediately to your section/team leader. Isolated hostile civilians and used no more force than was necessary to control the situation.



Performance Steps

  1.  Assess the situation by identifying the level of hostile civilian threat.

          a.  Verbal.

          b.  Physical without weapons (touching, pushing).

          c.  Physical with weapons (rocks, clubs, spitting).

          d.  Physical with firearms shown.

          e.  Physical with firearms used.

  2.  Report the situation immediately to the section/team leader.

  3.  Isolate hostile civilian(s), if possible.

  4.  Employ no more force than is necessary to control the situation using graduated response measures.

          a.  Avoid confrontation if possible. Do not deliberately instigate, threaten, provoke, or bluff.

          b.  Speak sternly to the civilian and state the peaceful intent of your mission.

          c.  Tell the civilian to "STAND BACK" and warn him that you may have to use force.

          d.  If the civilian places his hands on your body, use your riot baton or MP club to brush back the civilian.

          e.  If the civilian attempts to inflict bodily harm, use any authorized materials (e.g., water hoses, chemical gases) to impede his movement.

            f.  Use your individual weapon in self-defense only and fire to wound or disable if possible.

  5.  Establish and maintain control of the situation.

          a.  Comply with the rules of engagement (ROE)/rules of interaction (ROI), any host-nation requirements, applicable international treaties and operational agreements.






again, i have to ask, if this is good enough for deployed soldiers, why should civilian PDs be held to a lesser standard?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #21800304 - 06/13/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

soldiers arent fucking cops. there's a huge difference and here you are talking
about further militarizing the police. you need the cops to stand around with
rifles strapped on and at the ready while screaming orders at you?


do you actually believe that's how an enemy engagement goes down in a war zone?


lol...


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