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OfflineArtex
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Supachopped719]
    #21792194 - 06/11/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I will preface this by stating that I worked around police for about 18 months.  I did not work in the office with them, but interacted with them regularly via the IT program I was an intern for.  My boss was a former police officer that switched careers after getting sick of seeing the "worst of society - day after day."  He warned me on day one not to get too opinionated with anything I heard officers say, and to try to understand how jaded they were, dealing with angry and upset people all day long.

So police are trained to escalate one level for the situation.  If the suspect is using fists, the police use a baton.  If the suspect has a knife, the police draw their weapon.  If the suspect has a gun, the police may open fire.

Police are also trained in unarmed combat.

Life has been devalued to the point where many feel that those who are beaten or killed by police deserve it.

Self-determination has been devalued so much that many feel that you should just do what the police say, regardless of whether you are engaging in criminal activity or not.

It is ironic that those on a forum dedicated to the cultivation and use of a schedule I substance, which facilitates enlightenment, is non-addictive and has never killed anyone, would defend our nation's laws and mores as "just."

We watch reality video on youtube and treat it as entertainment.  The other day, two white women break out into a full-on brawl in a Walmart, including a 6 year old child and encouraging him to beat join the fracas. And those women are both alive and presumably not in jail. Dozens of bystanders stood by and did nothing other than take video on their smart phones.  Not one would lift a finger to help. That's all over the internet, as entertainment.  It only makes sense then that sensational stories about police violence would stimulate one side or the other, depending on view, to start screaming at the internet. 

Here in Madison a recent HS graduate and unarmed black male was shot and killed by a police officer, who was found not-guilty of any wrongdoing by an internal investigation and no charges were pressed by the DA (a DA who is generally considered quite progressive).  I feel sorry that Chief Koval has to deal with this BS so early into his reign as chief, but hopefully it will also facilitate a change in the system. (Diogenes would say to not hold one's breath.)

(Here and there you see claims that the young man was on shrooms.  Until I see the toxicology report, I call bullshit.)

The fact that a police officer can kill another human being, especially when it's an innocent human being (where no wrongdoing was found on their part after an investigation), and keep his job... it's indicative of the sickness in our western society.  That ISIS exists and our top minds think we should bomb the shit out of them is indicative that our society is as a child.

Jacque Fresco claims he joined a KKK group and dissolved it within a month by challenging their thinking from within.  He did the same with a group of flat-earth thinkers in NYC back in the 20s or 30s.  He didn't even speak the same language as the group.

Don't fight the system, join the system and question why it is.  Change through challenging thought, not arguing opinion.  Lead with facts.  Anything less and you may as well be throwing your feces at passersby.


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OfflineArtex
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: sprinkles]
    #21792218 - 06/11/15 08:58 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yes.  The police claim that Tony Robinson was on shrooms when he was shot.  He was such a dirtbag criminal. 

Why do you feel that the police only shoot dirtbag criminals? 

What makes a soccer mom a good person (because in my experience, they aren't)?

Do you have any evidence that suggests that police are actually good judges of character?


(And if you were being completely sarcastic, keep trying.  It is actually an art and not merely words strung together.)


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Artex]
    #21792226 - 06/11/15 09:00 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When they're being shot at.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #21792234 - 06/11/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
How could she possibly feel threatened from inside a squad car?




Perhaps you should ask Darren Wilson.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineArtex
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Bassfreak]
    #21792249 - 06/11/15 09:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

You believe that officers are given discretion merely by becoming police officers?

Is that a good thing?

Are you aware of the requirements beyond police academy to become a police officer?

How can you be on a forum about mushrooms and not at least ask these basic questions of yourself?


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OfflineArtex
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Bassfreak]
    #21792273 - 06/11/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

dis·cre·tion
dəˈskreSH(ə)n/

the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation.
"it is up to local authorities to use their discretion in setting the charges"
synonyms: choice, option, preference, disposition, volition

So now we all know what discretion means. 

Is there discretion training in police academy?

No, the police do not get the fucking discretion to kill whomever they want.  They are trained to follow rules of engagement.  They are officers of the people hired to PROTECT the people.  They are not judge, jury and executioner, and in order for our judicial system to work, you have to bring the fucking suspect in ALIVE.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #21792586 - 06/11/15 11:12 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
They're almost always justified, we only see the ones that are questionable because where is the interest in watching people continuously do only the right thing.




Other countries - and even some departments in the US - do not have this problem; they are not killing people or even drawing their weapons on a regular basis. In this context, almost none of these killings are justified. You can be an effective officer and not have to threaten violence constantly. Cops need better training, better screening and there should be consequences when you take an innocent persons life.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21792851 - 06/11/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

"Cops need better training, better screening and there should be consequences when you take an innocent persons life." In no way, shape, or form do I disagree with this. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your other part but I don't think it's so black and white, there is probably other factors involved in why that's the case. Are the citizens of those other countries allowed to own guns? And also are the departments that don't have that problem in the US in poverty stricken areas? I'm not asking to argue your point, just seeing if there actually is other factors to why that may be the case.

How do the police of other countries manage to take down people without even drawing their weapons (mainly talking about people who could potentially put their life at risk by having a gun or something else)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #21792880 - 06/11/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I think a lot of these cases end they way they do because the police escalate the danger of situations with their behavior instead of being a calming factor. They go barreling in, confusing people with their seemingly out of control and over the top approach.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21792893 - 06/11/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

That's a really good point, I can definitely see that being a huge factor.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Supachopped719] * 1
    #21792915 - 06/11/15 12:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Supachopped719 said:
When should the police be allowed to shoot?




They should have the same requirements to be able kill on the spot that a citizen who isn't a police officer has, which basically means almost never are they justified to shoot.


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Offlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21792936 - 06/11/15 01:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The "war on drugs" is the catalyst that escalates the mentality of over-policing. 

The police don't make the laws and policing tactics, they are the pawns in the sick game of the drug war.

Decriminalize drug possession and the drug trade, and most of this stuff goes away.


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21792941 - 06/11/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

http://discoverpolicing.org/what_does_take/?fa=training_academy_life

I found this link that's compiled average time spent in training on various skills at police academies in the US. I think I posted it in one of the many other thread about police violence, but it's more relevant here.

83% of police academies offer a median of 8 hrs of training in Mediation skills/conflict management (17% offer no mentionable training it seems), while  99% offer 60 hrs in firearms skills and 44 hours in self defense with 91% of academies offering 12 hours in non-lethal weapons. That's 116 hours of how to kill or disable somebody, and 8 hours of how not to have to (for only 83% of cops). It's no wonder these guys go to their guns first. They're mostly trained as thugs (with some baby lawyer training to keep them out of trouble).


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: qman]
    #21792964 - 06/11/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The "war on drugs" is the catalyst that escalates the mentality of over-policing. 

The police don't make the laws and policing tactics, they are the pawns in the sick game of the drug war.

Decriminalize drug possession and the drug trade, and most of this stuff goes away.




QFT, they have to follow the laws and deal with the people who break them, even if they were to disagree with them. Can't blame them for certain things they do especially when it comes to drugs, which is a majority of the prison population.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: qman]
    #21793000 - 06/11/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The "war on drugs" is the catalyst that escalates the mentality of over-policing. 

The police don't make the laws and policing tactics, they are the pawns in the sick game of the drug war.

Decriminalize drug possession and the drug trade, and most of this stuff goes away.



Law enforcement is one of the largest and vocal lobbies fighting decriminalization.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #21793009 - 06/11/15 01:22 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
Quote:

qman said:
The "war on drugs" is the catalyst that escalates the mentality of over-policing. 

The police don't make the laws and policing tactics, they are the pawns in the sick game of the drug war.

Decriminalize drug possession and the drug trade, and most of this stuff goes away.




QFT, they have to follow the laws and deal with the people who break them, even if they were to disagree with them. Can't blame them for certain things they do especially when it comes to drugs, which is a majority of the prison population.




Guess who pushed for over-policing where Freddie Gray was arrested? 

http://news.yahoo.com/baltimore-prosecutors-had-asked-police-target-freddie-gray-152857136--business.html

"Baltimore prosecutors had asked for police to focus drug enforcement efforts on the corner where Freddie Gray was chased by officers"

"The request from State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby came about 3 weeks before Gray was arrested"

So the very same prosecutor who bashed the police about over-policing is the SAME person who ordered the over-policing which led to Freddie Gray's arrest and death!!!  :huxleyfacepalm:


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InvisibleMr.GuessWork
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21793020 - 06/11/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What part of law enforcement is fighting decriminalization? Are your talking about the DEA public relations clowns? Or are there larger organized groups?


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Offlineqman
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21793024 - 06/11/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

qman said:
The "war on drugs" is the catalyst that escalates the mentality of over-policing. 

The police don't make the laws and policing tactics, they are the pawns in the sick game of the drug war.

Decriminalize drug possession and the drug trade, and most of this stuff goes away.



Law enforcement is one of the largest and vocal lobbies fighting decriminalization.




Very true, they like job security.  They weren't the one's that lobbied and got the drug laws written.

The alcohol industry is also against legal marijuana, again their position is self serving, nothing more.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: Mr.GuessWork]
    #21793051 - 06/11/15 01:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.GuessWork said:
What part of law enforcement is fighting decriminalization? Are your talking about the DEA public relations clowns? Or are there larger organized groups?




Law Enforcement Organizations are the main opponents to legalization efforts.

http://rvanews.com/news/senator-calls-for-marijuana-decriminalization/121567
Quote:

The Senate Courts of Justice Committee on Wednesday killed a bill to decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana.

The committee voted 9-5 to “pass by indefinitely,” meaning Senate Bill 686, sponsored by Sen. Adam Ebbin, D-Alexandria, is dead for this legislative session. All of the Republicans on the panel voted in favor of that motion; all of the Democrats voted against it (the motion to pass the bill by, not the bill itself).

The vote came after 12 people spoke in support of the bill and eight spoke against it. The committee chairman, Sen. Mark D. Obenshain, R-Harrisonburg, limited each side to five minutes.

Opponents included Kevin Carroll of the Fraternal Order of Police, Thomas Bradshaw of the Virginia State Police and Craig Branch, chief of the Germanna Community College Police Department and president of the Virginia Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. They cited problems caused by the decriminalization of marijuana in states like Colorado and Maryland and in Washington, D.C.




Legalization means less money to law enforcement. It's bad for business,


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleJayZ Morgan
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Re: When should the police be allowed to shoot? [Re: koods]
    #21795562 - 06/12/15 12:06 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I'd rather the police shottas learn a safer alternative to firing a head shot -or "kill shot" because officers are trained specifically to shoot first and question things later when the person in question can't respond.

Police should be allowed to shoot when nobody is looking,
The police officer who shot the drug dealer should be allowed to shoot confiscated hereorin.
corrupt enforcers of the law should have themselves shot in the dick before shooting somebody else. The purpose is to educate officers how shooting people to kill cancels out generations of our futures kids.

I wonder if there ever will be a cop who ends up having a so much regret once killing their victim - they take their own life ?


The police kill for their cause of protection and most of the time I don't see the threat unless a gun is pulled , car is being driven towards them , flame thrower, possibly a bow and arrow , .

honestly, I  think cops amplify the danger of their job as an attempt to justify their wrong doing., I do beleive being a cop is dangerous but not to the extent some people advocate just because people are afraid of the cops . Most people want to get the fuck away if the cops are near and the only reason a person wants to see a cop dead is because the kill or be killed mentality both cops Nd people on the streets life by.


--------------------






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