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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Are Americans more evil?
    #2179059 - 12/15/03 08:40 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Having the largest percent of population in prison in history can mean only 1 of 2 things no matter your political standing. You choose:

1. Americans today are inherently more evil.

2. Our laws are unreasonably oppressive and unjust.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179067 - 12/15/03 08:49 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

3. We don't shoot suspected criminals in tthe street.

4. we're just the least civilized of the civilized world.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2179080 - 12/15/03 09:00 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

3. We don't shoot suspected criminals in tthe street.

No, because there are too many witnesses. Usually the suspects are shot in their bedroom trying to defend themselves when the D.E.A. exercises the Constitutionally illegal "knockless warrant" at 3 AM.


from: http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.htm

John Adams

64 years old
Lebanon, Tennessee
October, 2000 Shot to death during a SWAT drug raid while watching TV. The house didn't match the description on the warrant.

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Xavier Bennett

8 years old
Atlanta, Georgia
November, 1991 Xavier was accidentally shot to death by officers in a pre-dawn drug raid during a gunfight with one of Xavier's relatives.

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Delbert Bonnar

57 years old
Belpre, Ohio
October, 1998 Shot 8 times by police in drug raid. They were looking for his son.

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Veronica Bowers

35 years old
Charity Bowers


7 months old

In the air over Peru
April, 2001 As part of a long-standing arrangement to stop drug shipments, U.S. government tracking provided the information for the Peruvian Air Force to mistakenly shoot down a Cessna plane carrying missionaries. Killed in the incident were Roni Bowers, a missionary with the Association of Baptists for World Evangelism, and her daughter, Charity. As of August, 2003, the United States is considering reinstating the shoot-down program. Perhaps they think by now we've forgotten.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jose Colon

20 years old
Suffolk, New York
April, 2002 Jose was outside the house where he had come to repay a $20 debt, when a drug raid on the house commenced. He was shot in the head by SWAT.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Troy Davis

25 years old
North Richland Hills, Texas
December, 1991 During a no-knock raid to find some marijuana plants he was growing, he was shot to death in his living room. There are disputed accounts regarding whether he had a gun.

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Annie Rae Dixon

84 years old
Tyler, Texas
January, 1993 Bedridden with pneumonia during a drug raid. Officer kicked open her bedroom door and accidentally shot her.

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Patrick Dorismond

26 years old
New York, New York
March, 2000 Patrick was a security guard who wanted to become a policeman. He was off-duty and unarmed when he went out with friends. Standing on the street looking for a taxi, he was approached by undercover police who asked to buy some marijuana from him. Patrick was offended by the request (he didn't use drugs), and a scuffle ensued. Dorismond was then shot to death by the police.

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Shirley Dorsey

56 years old
Placerville, California
April, 1991 Rather than being compelled to testify against her 70-year-old boyfriend (Byron Stamate) for cultivating the medicinal cannabis she depended upon to help control her crippling back pain, Shirley Dorsey committed suicide. She saw it as the only way to prevent the forfeiture of their home and property. Despite her suicide, Stamate was sentenced to 9 months prison, and his home, cottage, and $177,000 life savings were seized.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juan Mendoza Fernandez

60 years old
Dallas, Texas
September, 2000 Police found a variety of drugs when they raided the Fernandez' home. However, Juan apparently believed he was the victim of burglars during the raid, and was shot while trying to protect his 11-year-old granddaughter. He and his wife had been married 36 years and had four children and 13 grandchildren.

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Curt Ferryman

24 years old
Jacksonville, Florida
August, 2000 Undercover agents were attempting to arrest Ferryman, who was in his car and unarmed. A DEA agent knocked on the car window with his gun to get the suspect's attention, and the gun went off, killing him as he sat in the car.

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Willie Heard

46 years old
Osawatomie, Kansas
February, 1999 SWAT conducted a no-knock drug raid, complete with flash-bang grenades. Heard was shot to death in front of his wife and 16-year-old daughter who had cried for help. Fearing home invasion, he was holding an empty rifle. The raid was at the wrong house.

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Clayton Helriggle

23 years old
Eaton, Ohio
September, 2002 Clayton was shot to death while coming down the stairs during a suprise raid. He was carrying either a gun or a plastic cup, depending on the report. Less than an ounce of marijuana was found.

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Esequiel Hernandez

18 years old
Redford, Texas
May, 1997 Hernandez was shot and killed by a Marine sniper in camouflage who was part of a military unit conducting drug interdiction activities near the Mexican border. Esequiel was out herding his family's goats and had taken a break to shoot at some tin cans with his antique rifle.

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John Hirko

21 years old
Pennsylvania
1997 An unarmed man with no prior offenses was shot to death in his house by a squad of masked police. In a no-knock raid, they tossed a smoke grenade in through a window, setting the house on fire. Hirko, suspected of dealing small amounts of marijuana and cocaine, was found face down on his stairway, shot in the back while fleeing the burning building. When the fire was finally put out, officers found some marijuana seeds in an unsinged plastic bag.

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Lynette Gayle Jackson

29 years old
Riverdale, Georgia
September, 2000 Shot to death in her bed by SWAT team.

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Officer Ron Jones

29 years old
Prentiss, Mississippi
December, 2001 Officer Jones was in the process of serving a drug warrant, based on an informant tip. While trying to enter the rear of a duplex, he was shot by the resident, Corey Maye, who had no prior record. No drugs were found. Maye was charged with capital murder.

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Tony Marinez

19 years old
De Valle, Texas
December, 20001 Officers conducted a drug raid on a mobile home in De Valle. Martinez, who was not the target of the raid, was asleep on the couch when the raid commenced. Hearing the front door smashed open, he sat up, and was shot to death in the chest.

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Peter McWilliams

50 years old
Laurel Canyon, California
June, 2000
Peter was a world-famous author and an advocate of medical marijuana, not only because he believed in it in principle, but because it was keeping him alive (he had AIDS and non-Hodgkins lymphoma). After California passed a law legalizing medical marijuana, Peter helped finance the efforts of Todd McCormick to cultivate marijuana for distribution to those who needed it for medical reasons. Federal agents got wind of his involvement, and Peter was a target for his advocacy. He was arrested, and in federal court was prevented from mentioning his medical condition or California's law. While he was on bail awaiting sentencing, the prosecutors threatened to take away his mother's house (used for bail) if he failed a drug test, so he stopped using the marijuana which controlled his nausea from the medications and allowed him to keep them down. He was found dead on the bathroom floor, choked to death on his own vomit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ismael Mena

45 years old
Denver, Colorado
September, 1999 Mena was killed when police barged into his house looking for drugs. They had the wrong address.

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Pedro Oregon Navarro

22 yeqrs old
July, 1998 Following up on a tip from a drug suspect, 6 officers crowded into a hallway outside Navarro's bedroom. When the door opened, one officer shouted that he had a gun. Navarro's gun was never fired, but officers fired 30 rounds, with 12 of them hitting Pedro. No drugs were found.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mario Paz

65 years old
Compton, California
August, 1999 Mario was shot twice in the back in his bedroom during a SWAT raid looking for marijuana. No drugs were found.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Charmene Pickering

27 years old
Brooklyn, New York
July, 2001 Charmene was a passenger in a car driven by a drug suspect. State troopers and DEA agents were in the process of arresting the driver when the trooper's gun went off and hit Charmene in the neck, killing her. Both passenger and driver were unarmed.

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Manuel Ramirez

Stockton, California
January, 1993 At 2 am, police smashed down the door and rushed into the home of Manuel Ramirez, a retired golf course groundskeeper. Ramirez awoke, grabbed a pistol and shot and killed officer Arthur Parga before other officers killed him. Police were raiding the house based on a tip that drugs were on the premises, but they found no drugs.
Officer Arthur P. Parga

32 years old
Stockton, California
January, 1993

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deputy Keith Ruiz

36 years old
Travis County, Texas
February, 2001 Ruiz was a husband and father who was a veteran of numerous SWAT raids. In the process of serving a drug warrant, he was trying to break down the door to a mobile home occupied by painter Edwin Delamora, his wife, and two young children. Confused by the raid at night, Delamora yelled to his wife that they were being robbed and shot through the door, killing Ruiz.

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Donald P. Scott

61 years old
Malibu, California
October, 1992 Government agencies were interested in the property of this reclusive millionaire. A warrant was issued based on concocted "evidence" of supposed marijuana plantings, and a major raid was conducted with a 32-man assault team. Scott was shot to death in front of his wife. No drugs were found.

A later official report found: "It is the District Attorney's opinion that the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department was motivated, at least in part, by a desire to seize and forfeit the ranch for the government. Based in part upon the possibility of forfeiture, Spencer obtained a search warrant that was not supported by probable cause. This search warrant became Donald Scott's death warrant."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alberto Sepulveda

11 years old
Modesto, California
September, 2000 Alberto was killed by a shotgun blast to the back while following police orders and lying face down on the floor during a SWAT raid. He was a seventh-grader at Prescott Senior Elementary School.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary Shepherd

45 years old
Broadhead, Kentucky
August, 1993 When a Kentucky drug task force came to uproot his marijuana plants in August 1993, pot-grower and Vietnam vet Gary Shepherd told them, "You will have to kill me first," took out his rifle and sat down on his front porch. That evening he was shot dead in front of his infant son. Despite the fact that Shepherd never fired a shot and his family was pleading with authorities for negotiations, state police sharpshooters appeared from the brush without warning and opened fire when he refused to drop his rifle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alberta Spruill

57 years old
Harlem, New York
May, 2003 Police, acting on a tip, forced their way into Spruill's home, setting off flash grenades. She suffered a heart attack and died. It was the wrong address.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ashley Villareal

14 years old
San Antonio, Texas
February, 2003 Ashley went outside at night with a family friend to move their freshly washed car under shelter. DEA agents, interested in her father, were staking out the house, and believing that her father was driving, shot and killed Ashley. The agents did not have a warrant for her father. Read The Murder of Ashley.


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Accelyne Williams

75 years old
Boston, Massachusetts
March, 1994 Accelyne was a retired Methodist Minister and substance abuse counselor. After an informant gave police a bad address, a SWAT raid was conducted on the minster's home. The door was battered down, Williams was tackled to the floor and his hands tied behind his back. He died of a heart attack.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179081 - 12/15/03 09:00 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

There are elements of both positions at play.As far as violent crime I think we are as a people easily angered and willing to act on it.As far as consensual,non-violent "crime" we are a puritanical juggernaut of oppression and fear mongering.
But to answer your question "Are Americans more evil?" I would just say we have some very bad men making policies at this point in history.And as a people we have a real problem with entitlement of privelige.
So this one can't be black and white.
WR:rasta:


--------------------
To old for this place

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179082 - 12/15/03 09:00 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

have you ever been out of the country before? You really need to get out and see the world. we have the most prisoners but you don't see us shooting them for a difference of opinion. It makes me wonder if kids today even have the slightest clue.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2179104 - 12/15/03 09:15 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

have you ever been out of the country before? You really need to get out and see the world. we have the most prisoners but you don't see us shooting them for a difference of opinion. It makes me wonder if kids today even have the slightest clue.

As a Vietnam-era vet, I have indeed seen (some of) the world and actually do have a clue.

So the shooting deaths I listed never happened? And is death the ONLY form of oppression?

No wiggling here.

1. How would your tune change if you were taken from your family for 10 years for growing your own shrooms?

2. What would YOU do to protect your family if people kicked your door in, in the middle of the night with guns drawn? Would their assurance that they were the "good guys" relax you even in your state of shock without your having time to verify the facts?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179136 - 12/15/03 09:34 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

How long has it been since you stopped raping little girls? :smirk:

There are alot of reasons why America has a larger percentage of it's population incarcerated at any given time. Most of them arent very good reasons.


What was your point again?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179147 - 12/15/03 09:41 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

As a Vietnam-era vet, I have indeed seen (some of) the world and actually do have a clue.




makes one wonder...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2179157 - 12/15/03 09:44 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Is sniping the best you can do or do you actually have something of value to say?

I had the balls to voluntarily defend my country and I have the balls to speak out against unjustice. I can see where you might have a problem with that.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179186 - 12/15/03 10:01 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

i don't think you'll find anyone here who's gonna be defending the united states' drug policies... i think what people are trying to say here is that there are alot of countries that are far worse, and few that are much better about it.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179195 - 12/15/03 10:06 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

There are few, if any, countries "far worse" at imprisoning its population.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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OfflinePositronius
playboy

Registered: 11/27/03
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179197 - 12/15/03 10:08 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

baby hitler: Most of them arent very good reasons.

------like?


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179202 - 12/15/03 10:12 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

there are a great many nations in the world where a drug offense can bring a death sentence.

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179221 - 12/15/03 10:21 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Seriously, do you sincerely believe that that fact is any comfort to a college kid given 20 years for selling (happened this year) an ounce of MJ? Would it make you feel better after getting busted for your fungal grow room?

If not, then your point has little substance.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179230 - 12/15/03 10:26 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

well i'd certainly be glad i wasn't busted in singapore or saudi arabia, but unhappy that i wasn't busted in holland or england.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179236 - 12/15/03 10:32 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Like mushmaster said, noone on this site is happy with the drug laws. If you're inplying that the US is the only country out there with these types of laws your fooling yourself.

There are many countries out there that treat their prisonors like shit and don't get the privilage of haveing their own cell and a nice color TV to look at. For example a young boy about 14ish (courtesy of the Discovery channel) in russia robbed someone on the streets to get food to eat and he was imprisoned for years without his parents knowledge. If you think that we are the worst then you are again mistaken.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2179243 - 12/15/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

If you think that we are the worst then you are again mistaken.

Apparently you have the pandemic reading comprehension problem. "Largest percent of population in prison" ACTUALLY means "largest percent of population in prison". Hard to grasp, I know. This is fact and not opinion.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179244 - 12/15/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

my answer is that americans are inherantly more evil..and as such our laws are unreasonably oppressive and unjust...there are various reasons why the population has become posessed with evil..which i will be happy to elabourate if asked...

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179261 - 12/15/03 10:45 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

does it say in there how many are actually guilty of a crime? Or are they all innocent?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2179294 - 12/15/03 11:00 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I would wager that most are guilty of breaking a law. I would also wager that with some 20,000 laws on the books; that most all Americans could be incarcerated if the laws were fully enforced.

However, I believe that about half the prison population poses no danger to the general public and that their incarceration serves no purpose other than that of government control.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179357 - 12/15/03 11:31 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

its because of the war on drugs.

you knew that, so why'd you bother asking?

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179507 - 12/15/03 12:33 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
If you think that we are the worst then you are again mistaken.

Apparently you have the pandemic reading comprehension problem. "Largest percent of population in prison" ACTUALLY means "largest percent of population in prison". Hard to grasp, I know. This is fact and not opinion.





Your question was "Are Americans more evil?" .


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2179761 - 12/15/03 02:04 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

God, this is a retarded post. As everyone knows it is because of the WOD, not because we are inherently evil. :rolleyes:

We all agree the drug laws suck. Unfortunately the majority of the population does not agree with us, so we have the current drug laws we have.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: shakta]
    #2179774 - 12/15/03 02:08 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

i would argue that the majority consensus means that at least the majority is more evil...and not only drugwise either..they seem to have bought the whole neocon bridge too...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179788 - 12/15/03 02:10 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

i don't think it's being more evil. most people that support the drug laws really think that it's better for the whole of society... you know... the 'whole individual rights come second to the good of the collective' idea.  :smirk:

there are the misinformed, the intolerant, the self-rightous, the gullible, the stupid... finally way down on the list somewhere are the truly evil.

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179797 - 12/15/03 02:12 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
i don't think it's being more evil. most people that support the drug laws really think that it's better for the whole of society... you know... the 'whole individual rights come second to the good of the collective' idea.




You would think the socialists on this board would understand that. :laugh:

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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179802 - 12/15/03 02:14 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Reasons for our high prison population:

1. Highest violent crime rate in the world

2. Unjust drug laws

3. Prison industrial complex(Prison is big business)

4. Politicians constantly trying to appear "tough of crime"

5. Death penalty fails to act as deterrent


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: shakta]
    #2179808 - 12/15/03 02:15 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Quote:

mushmaster said:
i don't think it's being more evil. most people that support the drug laws really think that it's better for the whole of society... you know... the 'whole individual rights come second to the good of the collective' idea.




You would think the socialists on this board would understand that. :laugh:



That might be a valid socialist position if it were true, but the fact is that drug laws harm society more than they help it.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlineshakta
Infidel
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2179832 - 12/15/03 02:20 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I agree. The words fact and socialist position don't go together very well usually.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: shakta]
    #2179855 - 12/15/03 02:24 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Socialism is a political and economic philosophy. It's a way of approaching things. The facts are neutral to political philosophy.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Offlineshakta
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2179865 - 12/15/03 02:26 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I disagree, but I don't want us to completely hijack a thread on my first day back on the board.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2179893 - 12/15/03 02:36 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

but the fact is that drug laws harm society more than they help it.

kindof like socialist economic "reforms".

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179901 - 12/15/03 02:41 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

That's debatable.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineGilgamesh
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179938 - 12/15/03 02:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Are americans more evil?.. I think most of the posters on this site have agreed that its due largely to our WOD that americans have such elevated prison populations. This aside, all who live in the USA know its laws, or atleast the basics. I, as i think all those on this site do, enjoy the presence of drugs in my life and would like the laws of this country to be more conducive to my lifestyle. However, I consider this to be the best country in the world to be a citezen of. If i wanted to leave and go to a country with different drug laws i could do so very easily. However, the USA is what i would want in a country in most aspects. I think the quality of life here is far superior to that found in any other country. I find having to watch my back when doing drugs much more appealing than the worries i could see myself having in many other countries. Our government is run by people as are all others and like all other people government officials can be corrupt. On the whole i am proud of this country and my status as a citezen. I realize there are injustices but i think the good out weighs the bad and thats why i still live here.


--------------------
(( (( NEVER EVER SHAKE A BABY )) ))

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2179940 - 12/15/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

However, I believe that about half the prison population poses no danger to the general public and that their incarceration serves no purpose other than that of government control.




damn, SWAMI, you should post in here more often. Kind of nice agreeing with you for a change.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2179962 - 12/15/03 03:02 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

welfare-

to pay for welfare, you are taking money away from one person and giving it to someone else. had that money not been forcefully seized, it would have been spent on something. it would have paid for something. it would have paid for someone else's paycheck, not someone's welfare check. you create and then subsidize unemployment & poverty this way. it is not a solution.

minimum wages-

this has been a topic of debate in the past and i really don't know why. it's quite simple: anyone who's labor is worth less than the minimum wage will not be hired. unemployment. employers don't have a choice to pay less than the minimum wage, but they do have a choice to fire or to not hire someone who isn't worth that much to them.

i can't really do this justice right now... i've got alot of work to do and i've got to get going. maybe i'll pick up later.

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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2179985 - 12/15/03 03:13 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

welfare-

to pay for welfare, you are taking money away from one person and giving it to someone else. had that money not been forcefully seized, it would have been spent on something. it would have paid for something. it would have paid for someone else's paycheck, not someone's welfare check. you create and then subsidize unemployment & poverty this way. it is not a solution.



Ah, so welfare is the reason why there's poverty. I see now. Guess those people who lived through the Great Depression were all just a bunch of lazy freeloaders.

Quote:

minimum wages-

this has been a topic of debate in the past and i really don't know why. it's quite simple: anyone who's labor is worth less than the minimum wage will not be hired. unemployment. employers don't have a choice to pay less than the minimum wage, but they do have a choice to fire or to not hire someone who isn't worth that much to them.



By paying someone minimum wage, an employer's basically saying, "If I could pay you less, I would." Having worked at a minimum wage job myself, I can't imagine someone surviving off of less than that.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2180007 - 12/15/03 03:20 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Swami, I knew that guy from osawatomie, kansas on your list. It blows my mind.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2180047 - 12/15/03 03:43 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, so welfare is the reason why there's poverty.

did i say that?

poverty exists because some people are not capable or willing of producing enough wealth. this is caused by many things, welfare being only one of them.

every time a tax dollar is taken, there is one less dollar to be spent on something.... one less dollar paid for something. there is less production and less employment. it's not the fault of the people on welfare. maybe they could find honest work if someone had money to pay for their services, but the ones who would have cannot afford to because they're taxed to pay for welfare programs instead. i hope the meaning of what i'm trying to say here isn't lost in what i recognize is an oversimplification. the principles are still applicable.

By paying someone minimum wage, an employer's basically saying, "If I could pay you less, I would." Having worked at a minimum wage job myself, I can't imagine someone surviving off of less than that.

here's a question: how do you think the minimum wage should be determined?

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2180060 - 12/15/03 03:53 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Having the largest percent of population in prison in history can mean only 1 of 2 things no matter your political standing. You choose:

1. Americans today are inherently more evil.

2. Our laws are unreasonably oppressive and unjust.




3. Americans today are inherently more good.

Hell, look at all the bad people locked away! makes me feel safe just thinking about it... :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2180144 - 12/15/03 04:28 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

which i will be happy to elabourate if asked



Please don't.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2180222 - 12/15/03 04:59 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

there are the misinformed, the intolerant, the self-rightous, the gullible, the stupid... finally way down on the list somewhere are the truly evil.




i dont think that anyone here can presume to be better informed..or less gullible..than the neocon mob (ie the pro-neocon majority)...just because you went to some pro-drug website..doesnt mean that they havent been to the same website..and reached the opposite opinion...

however..i fully agree that they are intolerant and self-righteous..which does make them evil...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #2180325 - 12/15/03 05:27 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

i don't think you catch my meaning. i'm not talking about the "neocon" mob... i'm talking about the general population as a whole. you know... the people of america-excuse me- amerikkka.

the drug war exists because most people want it to, and i imagine that the great majority of them believe that drug prohibition is protecting society from a dangerous menace to public safety. i don't think it means that people are all "evil". there are just alot of them that are stupid and gullible.

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Invisiblethescientist
Registered: 03/09/02
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2181032 - 12/15/03 09:34 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

America is actively destroying the world in the name of laziness and luxury. One day it will stop, because there is no other way. I'm disgusted by what I see around me. We are no better than the Greeks 2500 years ago, and in ways much worse.
The greatest threat to America is itself, it's actions, culture, "religion". I'm Canadian but rarely accept that there are differences between our countries. We are lucky our military is pathetic. I will never "protect" my country by killing people in there's, period. Saddam is evil. Bush is far more evil.

Paul Martin is an economist and a liar. You'll see him very soon running down south to part the Bush and suck some cock.

To everyone:

This christmas give something to a person less fortunate (ie black person) because your government won't.

The word democracy is dead. Try expressing this concept any other way.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2181132 - 12/15/03 09:55 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)


No, because there are too many witnesses. Usually the suspects are
shot in their bedroom trying to defend themselves when the D.E.A.
exercises the Constitutionally illegal "knockless warrant" at 3 AM.


Argh....Just because it happens sometimes does not mean it "usually
happens". You are using hyperbole and exaggeration

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2181392 - 12/15/03 11:51 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Argh....Just because it happens sometimes does not mean it "usually
happens". You are using hyperbole and exaggeration


Apparently you also have the dreaded reading comprehension error. Try again. One poster said suspects are not being shot in the streets. I responded to the affect of "No, when they ARE shot it is usually in the home away from public eyes."

Get it? Not that suspects are usually shot, but when THEY ARE it is usually in the home.

Try a remedial English class. It can only help you.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (12/15/03 11:52 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: thescientist]
    #2181429 - 12/16/03 12:10 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

thescientist said:

This christmas give something to a person less fortunate (ie black person) because your government won't.






Dat's right Honey! You tells 'em!

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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2181843 - 12/16/03 06:49 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

swami, if you dont like american, get out. it does no good to sit here and complain about how you live to a bunch of people while sitting behind a computer.


--------------------
Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2181846 - 12/16/03 06:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

So America would be better off if it snowed crack cocaine every day?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2181856 - 12/16/03 07:03 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)


Quote:

thescientist said:

This christmas give something to a person less fortunate (ie black person) because your government won't.






I believe that is the most racist statement I have heard on this messageboard since I've been here ever ever ever.

That was fuctup.


I am litterally laughing out loud. My ass may even literally come off due to the laughing.


Should I donate my ass to some poor unfortunate negroes?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2181859 - 12/16/03 07:07 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

ah. it's funnier when it's said by people not named Hitler :smirk:

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: infidelGOD]
    #2181890 - 12/16/03 07:35 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I take it from your name that you hate muslims.


Infidel GOD


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2181987 - 12/16/03 08:31 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

huh?

God hates muslims?

oh THAT God. ok :wink:

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2182170 - 12/16/03 10:22 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)


Get it? Not that suspects are usually shot, but when THEY ARE it is
usually in the home.

Ok, I agree with you on that.


Try a remedial English class. It can only help you.

I was in a hurry last night and misread your message. I admit that
I made a mistake.

Tone down the insults, it makes you look like an asshole.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #2182332 - 12/16/03 11:43 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Tone down the insults.

OK, fair enough. And I appreciate your admission - that is a rarity.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2182341 - 12/16/03 11:46 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Two admissions!  :eek:

Maybe we are on a lucky streak.

:lol:

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Offlinemonoamine
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: IamHungry]
    #2182875 - 12/16/03 03:00 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

swami, if you dont like american, get out.




OMG that saying pisses me off to no end. If you were standing in front of me,I think I would have to bitch slap you. YOU get out. Last time I checked,voicing dissent was perfectly fine thing to do in this supposed land of the free.


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams

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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: monoamine]
    #2183308 - 12/16/03 04:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Well put :thumbup:


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: chinacat72]
    #2183331 - 12/16/03 05:03 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I always offer to leave as soon as they give me my share of the bombs. I'm not leaving my bombs here with them.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2183389 - 12/16/03 05:19 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

now don't worry
we got plenty of bombs for everyone

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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2183578 - 12/16/03 06:29 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Having the largest percent of population in prison in history can mean only 1 of 2 things no matter your political standing. You choose:

1. Americans today are inherently more evil.

2. Our laws are unreasonably oppressive and unjust.




I'd like to see a source showing that the percenatage of people in prison (expressed in the form of number of people in prision per thousand, hundred thousand, etcetera) is greater than it has been in the past. I don't doubt that their are more people in prison, I'm just not sure if the PERCENTAGE of people is rising.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2184613 - 12/17/03 03:10 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Swami doesn't do sources or links. He prefers we take his words as gospel.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: ]
    #2184832 - 12/17/03 08:14 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Swami doesn't do sources or links. He prefers we take his words as gospel.
Friendships can be easily destroyed by lies and false accusations. Take heed. :nonono:

I have listed 100s of links in the past and my numbers are ALWAYS as accurate as my honest attempt at balanced research shows. I deliberately did not list a link in this case as some might say that my choice of websites was biased.

http://salt.claretianpubs.org/sjnews/2003/04/sjn0304f.html

American prison population surpasses 2 million,
the highest incarceration rate in the world
For the first time in history, the number of inmates in American prisons and jails has exceeded 2 million. As of June 30, 2002, there were 1.35 million prisoners in State and Federal prisons and an additional 665, 475 in local jails, according to a new report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. This represents an increase of nearly 2 percent over the first six months of 2002.

The rate of incarceration in the United States, 702 inmates per 100,000 residents, continues to be the highest in the world.  Among black males 25 to 29, 12.9 percent were in prison or jail. Overall, 4.8 percent of black males were in prison or jails, compared to 1.7 percent of Hispanics and 0.6 percent of whites. Black women in prisons and jails continue to outnumber their white (5 times as many) and Hispanic (more than twice as many) counterparts.

According to criminal justice analysts, the Bureau's report demonstrates state and federal policies continue to drive up incarceration rates despite sharp drops in violent crime rates since 1994 and efforts by many state governors and legislators from both political parties to reduce swollen prison populations and corrections budgets during an economic downturn. "The relentless increases in prison and jail populations can best be explained as the legacy of an entrenched infrastructure of punishment that has been embedded in the criminal justice system over the last 30 years," says Malcolm C. Young, Executive Director of The Sentencing Project, a non-profit organization which promotes greater use of alternatives to prison and more effective methods of reducing crime.

Drug offenses account for nearly 60 percent of the federal prison population and more than 20 percent of the state inmate population. Despite harsh mandatory minimum laws that send many low-level drug offenders to prison, drug use as evidenced by survey information and emergency room admissions remains flat. The numbers contained in the Bureau's report demonstrate the role of policy over actual crime trends in determining incarceration.

? State prison populations increased only 1 percent in the year ending June 30, 2002, following an ever lower increase of 0.3 percent in the previous year. In this time period, nearly half the states adopted various strategies to reduce corrections costs by lowering the number of people imprisoned. The largest reported declines in prison populations occurred in states such as Texas and California, which changed parole policies to allow the release of thousands of inmates.

? In comparison, jail inmate populations grew by 5.4 percent, outstripping the annual average increase of 4.3 percent since 1995. Jails are locally controlled and less subject to state-wide policy changes.

? And, the federal prison population grew 2.8 percent, a little less than the average growth of 3.8 percent since 1995, and due in part to an influx of inmates from the closed prison system for the District of Columbia. Federal policymakers, who are far removed from the budgetary constraints that affect their state counterparts, have shown little interest in reducing the federal inmate population.

? Violent crime, which is of most concern to people on the street, has fallen to its lowest levels since 1974, when data was first collected nationally. This reduction in numbers of offenders has yet to show itself in rates of incarceration. Experts believe that policy decisions which have increased the length of sentences for both violent and non-violent offenders has more than compensated for the smaller number of offenders.

Among the two million inmates are nearly 10,000 youths who are incarcerated in adult jails and prisons, marking the influence of laws that make prosecution of children in adult court far easier than at any time in the nation's history. 


For more information:
The Bureau of Justice Statistics
BOJS' statistics on drugs and crime. 


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Anonymous

Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2185233 - 12/17/03 12:25 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for the links.

To my knowlege these are the first links I have seen you post in quite a while. Remember I read your posts a lot.

And as far as insults are concerned you should have taken your own advice about 20 posts back.

As far as the "experts" are concerned their suppositions are full of hot air. It has been well established that blacks perpetrate violent crimes against whites at an approximate ratio of 10 to 1 versus white on black violent crime which is essentially nil.

This isn't the result of policy other than the policy of slavery and idiots like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, et al who won't let blacks forget they once had owners that abused the shit out of them.

Slavery has come back to bite the whites on the ass. They are raped, murdered, assaulted and robbed by blacks.

If you need a link for evidence of those crime statistics they are available from the Department of Justice as well. It is documented.

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Invisiblemedicinebag
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Registered: 11/15/03
Posts: 344
Loc: The land of The People
Re: Are Americans more evil? [Re: Swami]
    #2187572 - 12/18/03 10:13 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I would have to agree with both 1 and 2.

We, as humans, aren't any less or more evil. The evil just shifted form.

Our laws in the States are very unjust.

Most are in jail for a Drug offense of some kind.

A large population in jails now are for Non-violent Marijuana Offenses...

Imo, Life a hundred years ago, for some, had more freedoms. However, for others the freedoms were definately less...

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