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Invisiblemaddchef
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A breakthrough?
    #21788499 - 06/10/15 02:01 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

So I've lost A LOT of tubs to trich or other green mold and I could never figure out wtf the issue was. All my plates looked clean, my hood is brand new and has been tested as thorough as possibly by a hobbyist but prepping oats today I noticed something, my wbs has been too wet.

My question is though: if wbs was prepped too wet but there was no obvious bacteria during colonization but I always see a "weak" spot in my myc and then green takes hold of the area, is it possible its been bacteria the whole time? Using a see through container you can clearly see kinda a rust ring form around certain grains which is bacteria.

If I'm only seeing bacteria after full colonization it is undoubtedly endospores correct? Its like its coming from inside the colonized grain. I always thought I had a hidden mold somewhere but if there were bacteria germinating and weakening the myc then any mold spores that got mixed in while spawning would have free reign right?

Maybe that's why I only see trich in some places and not have the tub explode with it all at once.

Ideas?


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21788886 - 06/10/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

All my plates are clean, I PC bags for 3.5hrs, I use sleeves in my bags, I flame sterilize, new hood, I've worked in a hood commercially before, impulse sealer tested with a bag full of water. Strange thing is my test bags just sit there idle. Tried pcing one and sealing immediately then did a mock inoculation with a blank wedge and nothing.

And still I lose a great deal right at or right before first flush. This is the only other explanation I can think of. Here you can see an example of the bacteria. This was colonized beautifully white and then it began.



--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789236 - 06/10/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I lose a lot of tubs too. Lost six this month :frown: haha

Ive been reviewing *every* bit of my process and technique. I believe you posted in my thread about sterilizing my tyvek sleeves.

Its been sugguested to me to put all my cultures past an antibiotic plate or two to try to clear away from hidden bacteria, and I think thats what Im gunna try next is gentamyacin in a sleeve of plates and giving that a shot :shrug:


--------------------

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Offlineblazedup
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21789264 - 06/10/15 04:57 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What are you using for your tubs?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: blazedup]
    #21789304 - 06/10/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What does anyone use their tubs for? I'm sure as shit not storing shoes.

No just joking. Be more specific though.

To mush, antibiotic agar isn't a bad idea but I see the same issue across multiple cultures so I doubt that's my particular problem.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


Edited by maddchef (06/10/15 05:09 PM)


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789314 - 06/10/15 05:11 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

What's your substrate mix? Also what's your average pc times with wbs? Also what's your pasteurization tek? And spawn ratios


--------------------
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Edited by Mad Season (06/10/15 05:12 PM)


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Offlineblazedup
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789324 - 06/10/15 05:13 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Meaning if your using your tub for bulk what are you using for bulk substrate with wbs?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21789327 - 06/10/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I bucket straight coir and I run my bags 3.5hr

My spawn ratio is usually 1:2


I'm beginning to think its just walmarts wbs.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


Edited by maddchef (06/10/15 05:15 PM)


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OfflineSksoul
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789349 - 06/10/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe try actually pasteurizing your coir and see if that is your dead end. Coir usually goes fine, I've done a few clean runs without any pasteurization just to see. If you are still getting triched out, you can rule out improper bucket pasteurization.


--------------------
Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789357 - 06/10/15 05:20 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting. It all sounds pretty good. Do you do the Muda bucket tek? I'd personally make sure to do that, or even pasteurize in jars.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: Mad Season]
    #21789383 - 06/10/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Already tried proper pasteurization. Next lol


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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OfflineSksoul
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789415 - 06/10/15 05:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, go back to your agar. Bacteria can hide pretty snug up inside of mycelium. Maybe make a LI with an agar wedge and try them on some pf cakes... You are running out of options, lol, it might just be your house is fucked.


--------------------
Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789418 - 06/10/15 05:33 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

I saw you made oats recently. They're nowhere near as starchy, and as such rarely go bacterial. Give them a shot. I've only ever seen 100% truly clean spawn on oats. My bird seed always has wet grains that are bacterial.

Antibacterial agar. Always run 1 or 2 transfers on it. That's about all I can think of.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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OfflineSksoul
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: Sksoul]
    #21789422 - 06/10/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, rereading, you were worried about endospores. I'm sure you've soaked your grains... Maybe try an easier grain like wbr. Its about all I've been using recently and there is no reason to soak it. Only drawback is that there is a fine line between too dry to colonize and something you cannot shake in a jar/pp5. Easily solved in a ziplock though.


--------------------
Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: Sksoul]
    #21789455 - 06/10/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The pic clearly shows a bacteria issue. I'm just curious if the bacteria is weakening my mycelium enough for mold to get a foothold.

I don't soak my wbs, I use foomans method but softboil and let steam drain/dry.

Hopefully the oats will be my saving grace. I am thinking since the bacteria never visually or by smell presents until after the grain is colonized that it is an endospore issue and its just taking that long to germinate, ramp up, and start causing visual damage.

I have made lc and LI that tested good once put back on an agar plate. I have tried agar wedges, spore, lc, LI all with roughly the same results.

Hopefully I have just been prepping my wbs too wet and bacteria that wouldn't have otherwise stood a chance is coming out of dormancy. Don't see how with a 180minute PC run but clearly its there.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789479 - 06/10/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

It's endos. Like I said I've only seen it be clean on oats for me.

Cleanest wbs jar I could get: still has wet grains


pretty much typical for oats:


It was my saving grace.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: maddchef]
    #21789499 - 06/10/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
What does anyone use their tubs for? I'm sure as shit not storing shoes.

No just joking. Be more specific though.

To mush, antibiotic agar isn't a bad idea but I see the same issue across multiple cultures so I doubt that's my particular problem.




Yea mines across multiple cultures too so I dont *think* thats always the case. Could be tho who knows right?

Im playing every angle haha. If its something I can improve to reduce trich, Im gunna try it


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: mushpunx]
    #21789954 - 06/10/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Oats are just as likely to carry a high endospore count as any other cereal grain. If someone is having problems and suspect that the first thing to do is change the grain. I have had and have oats that are fine, zero issues. I also have a large amount that are all issues. Know and understand the materials you are working with and systematiclly eliminate the vectors.


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: A breakthrough? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21789976 - 06/10/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Let me blame Walmart goddamnit!

Really at this point I have eliminated everything I can think of. Started new cultures from spore, different types of inoculant, jars, new filter, different bags, etc except switching to a whole different type of grain.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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