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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Weight of fruits question...
#21788097 - 06/10/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've been curious for a very long time if my fruits actually weigh a little more if I wait until the head is flattened or if it weighs the same once the veil is starting to break?
I have 6 monos all going through their 2nd flush and the veil is broken on most of my fruits, however, if I'm not concerned with weight instead of potency, does it keep growing (in weight) if I let it grow past the breaking of the veil?
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Mostly just water weight which will disappear anyways.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: maddchef]
#21788125 - 06/10/15 12:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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That makes sense, but isn't about 90% of fruits water already? So it would seem that, like regular fruit growth, it will gain actual weight which will show up when cracker-dried.
How would it be a different type of weight gain than any other time the fruits are getting bigger?
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Bigger fruits = more weight, both wet and dry. If it didn't gain or lose weight, then a pin should weight the same as a full grown mushroom by that logic, which it obviously doesn't.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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lutherarkwright93
Neophyte

Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 77
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Myconin]
#21788879 - 06/10/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Based on my last grow alone, I witnessed many times over a mushroom take on a considerable amount of size between the veil breaking and the cap flattening out. It could only be water weight, but when it's an increase in height, girth of the stem and the cap getting much bigger...I get the impression the dry weight goes up.
i.e. eating the same mushroom after the cap flattens will be more powerful than picking and eating it as the veil breaks. Not looking to start an argument about psilocybin production at varied stages of fruitbody formation here. Just keeping it simple.
That said, the actual material, the fungal matter, as well as water, is coming from the sub, which has a life span and only so much nutrition to draw from. Perhaps picking them a little early will result in getting more mushrooms overall. And the smaller the more potent, as they say. 50 big mushrooms, or 80 smaller but more potent mushrooms?
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 21 hours, 4 minutes
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They keep growing. Hard to say what exactly it does to the final water content of the mushrooms simply because that seems to vary anyway but I'm pretty sure there's at least some continuing increase in dry mass as well.
In fact if you watch a time lapse you can see completely new mushroom tissue being formed even after sporulation has begun.
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DinkinFlicka84
Dude



Registered: 01/19/14
Posts: 546
Last seen: 5 years, 12 days
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kizzle]
#21791600 - 06/11/15 02:57 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow. That's excellent info guys. Thank you. I will be sure to go ahead and let my fruits grow to their fullest. I've never experienced a noticeable difference in potency regarding fully extended caps or newly broken veils.
Feel free to comment on my next issue. Your answers always help. This is how I'm finally able to have 16 healthy, yielding subs in my GH. I dealt with bad spawn for literally a year. It was god awful, but thanks to help from you guys, I'm the proud owner of enough fungi to kill the Beatles. Not that I'd want to.
The bottom of my subs that sit on the tray/lid don't get a lot of FAE and the weight of subs keep it that way. The fruits aren't nearly as big as the ones on the side r top. I realize they're squished and that would cause them to be flat and appear not as big, but the sheer weight of the fruits isn't even comprable.
Suggestions?

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Kazak
Friend


Registered: 12/13/13
Posts: 509
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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I was under the impression that picking before sporulation provided the highest good quality product. Do spores affect nausea?
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kazak]
#21792391 - 06/11/15 10:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kazak said: I was under the impression that picking before sporulation provided the highest good quality product. Do spores affect nausea?
It's the opinion of some around here that spores make the mushrooms taste worse, though personally, I think they taste so bad to begin with that I've not noticed any positive or negative impact on taste 
As far as picking times, we pick before the veil breaks for two reasons ime:
1 - It assures maximum potency by weight. Although there have been many debates about this over the years, this is the best known reason.
2 - Spores on the sub's surface sends a signal to the myc to stop fruiting, as reproduction was successful. Sub's have been reported to perform poorly after a good sporegasm (as I like to call it ).
Also, nausea is caused because the shrooms are difficult for our GI system to properly digest, especially when dried and eaten straight. You can lessen the sicky feelings in the beginning of your trip by eating wet shrooms, or consuming the dried stuff with food. I always keep a bottle Pepto Bismol on hand during the come up 
Hope this helped
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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FreeWorldOrder


Registered: 12/24/13
Posts: 2,002
Loc: Indiana, USA
Last seen: 8 days, 12 hours
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Quote:
lutherarkwright93 said: Based on my last grow alone, I witnessed many times over a mushroom take on a considerable amount of size between the veil breaking and the cap flattening out. It could only be water weight, but when it's an increase in height, girth of the stem and the cap getting much bigger...I get the impression the dry weight goes up.
i.e. eating the same mushroom after the cap flattens will be more powerful than picking and eating it as the veil breaks. Not looking to start an argument about psilocybin production at varied stages of fruitbody formation here. Just keeping it simple.
That said, the actual material, the fungal matter, as well as water, is coming from the sub, which has a life span and only so much nutrition to draw from. Perhaps picking them a little early will result in getting more mushrooms overall. And the smaller the more potent, as they say. 50 big mushrooms, or 80 smaller but more potent mushrooms?
I don't really agree with the potency part of your statement. It has been my understanding that the highest potency is right before and during the veil breaking.
After the veil breaks I believe they start losing potency vs. gaining it. 
It may not be enough to even notice but I am pretty sure the start losing potency soon after the veil breaks...
-------------------- "They who can give up essential liberty, to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin Lets Grow Mushrooms Videos PastyWhyte's Easy Agar TEK Agar's Liquid Inoculant TEK
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Quote:
FreeWorldOrder said:
Quote:
lutherarkwright93 said: Based on my last grow alone, I witnessed many times over a mushroom take on a considerable amount of size between the veil breaking and the cap flattening out. It could only be water weight, but when it's an increase in height, girth of the stem and the cap getting much bigger...I get the impression the dry weight goes up.
i.e. eating the same mushroom after the cap flattens will be more powerful than picking and eating it as the veil breaks. Not looking to start an argument about psilocybin production at varied stages of fruitbody formation here. Just keeping it simple.
That said, the actual material, the fungal matter, as well as water, is coming from the sub, which has a life span and only so much nutrition to draw from. Perhaps picking them a little early will result in getting more mushrooms overall. And the smaller the more potent, as they say. 50 big mushrooms, or 80 smaller but more potent mushrooms?
I don't really agree with the potency part of your statement. It has been my understanding that the highest potency is right before and during the veil breaking.
After the veil breaks I believe they start losing potency vs. gaining it. 
It may not be enough to even notice but I am pretty sure the start losing potency soon after the veil breaks...
They don't exactly "lose" potency. Once the veil breaks, the mushroom stops producing the actives but still grows. This means that you'll have about the same amount of actives in a larger mushroom if you let it grow, diluting the overall potency. Ime, the amounts are so minuscule as to be irrelevant, but as I mentioned earlier, this is still somewhat debated within the community.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 21 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Myconin]
#21792555 - 06/11/15 11:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Once the veil breaks, the mushroom stops producing the actives but still grows.
How exactly did you manage to determine that?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kizzle]
#21792562 - 06/11/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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i agree with kizzle although i will say the amount of cell division happening after spores mature is next to nothing, cell division takes a lot of energy unlike cell enlargement
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kizzle]
#21792831 - 06/11/15 12:30 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said:
Quote:
Once the veil breaks, the mushroom stops producing the actives but still grows.
How exactly did you manage to determine that?
Information gathered from over two years of lurking on the site.
Quote:
PussyFart said: When the cap opens, and the veil tears, it stops producing actives, and focuses more on spore production.
After this point, only water weight is gained, and they get less potent by weight, in general.
Here's the thread that quote is from... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18379142#18379142
There are others too, though I'm about to step out for a bit so I'm a little pressed for time to search them all up.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 21 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Myconin]
#21792948 - 06/11/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well Pussyfart didn't say how he came to that conclusion either. I think sometimes after something get repeated so many times people assume its true. In fact I've done that myself only to regret it later. I simply don't see how someone could make such a determination though. Unless Pussyfart has a spectrometer sitting in his closet
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Myconin
Mushroom Ninja



Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 308
Loc: The shadows...
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kizzle]
#21792984 - 06/11/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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The guy's a legit grower, and has given some of the most helpful advice over the years to the point that he's a TC. I'm not going to go so far as to say he's infallible, we all make mistakes from time to time. However, PF has never steered me wrong, and I don't think he'd knowingly say something false.
If this whole potency thing is misinformation, it's been perpetuated for quite some time. Someone might have to start a new thread for that debate though.
-------------------- "No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness" - Aristotle "I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures." - Lao Tzu "You've just gotta keep on keepin' on, man. You can't have 'no' in your heart" - Joe Dirt ThirtyCigarettes said: "All I know is every other thread I see in the Cultivation forum goes like this: QUESTION > ANSWER > DIFFERENT ANSWER > ARGUE > TC COMES AND CLEARS IT UP"
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,463
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kizzle]
#21792989 - 06/11/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Well Pussyfart didn't say how he came to that conclusion either. I think sometimes after something get repeated so many times people assume its true. In fact I've done that myself only to regret it later. I simply don't see how someone could make such a determination though. Unless Pussyfart has a spectrometer sitting in his closet 
I agree with you that it's not a proven fact. However you should take into account what happened in the Netherlands at the time when magic mushrooms were legal: you couldn't find cubes with the veil broken anywhere in Amsterdam. They only sold small size or medium size mushrooms (and never big mushrooms with a flattened cap) and I am pretty sure they had all the equipment they needed to evaluate potency. So yeah, we would need more data, but there are good indications that shrooms with the veil still intact are proportionally more potent.
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You have to die a few times before you can really live. -Charles Bukowski-
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Myconin]
#21793012 - 06/11/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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were not tc's because we have all the answers also a lot is taken out of context like pussyfart saying "focusing more on" or"in general" or when i or others say "it's mostly water weight". then somebody will follow behind and say it's just water weight but in fact cell division will still happen....just not a whole lot
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
Last seen: 21 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: cronicr]
#21793112 - 06/11/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not suggesting Pussyfart is giving out bad information or anything. Sometimes when there's lack of evidence opinion or theory gets stated as fact, with RR being the shining example of every opinion being presented as an undeniable fact No one would deny though he greatly helped a lot of cultivators and that following his advice would lead to success.
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TravelAgency
The ongoing "wow"

Registered: 12/25/10
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Re: Weight of fruits question... [Re: Kazak]
#21793333 - 06/11/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've found the best way to avoid nausea is to make a tea. If done correctly you loose no potency, it hits you faster, and I've never had an upset stomachs after.
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